Guild Wars 2

I was just checking out the engineer forums, since I’m starting one soon, and saw a lot of hubub about Anet nerfing all AoE skills? I run a staff ele focusing on condition damage, so I may not take a huge hit, but D/D builds will get pounded hard, I hear. It looks like many people are already moving toward all warrior/guardian groups because all of the useful skills for the other classes keep getting nerfed to the ground.

Anyway, I’ve heard some say that it’s a sure thing, some say that Anet only said that they were “taking a look” at AoE nerfing, and some say that AoE will do less damage against single targets (why?), so if anyone has some solid information I’d love to hear it. I love eles, but with so many of their attacks being AoE making them do less damage the fewer enemies there are is like saying, “your class is already squishy, but to do your best damage you HAVE to fight large mobs.” I run mostly PvE, so I have a hard time understanding why all the nerfs seem to be based on PvP. Everyone knows that a heavy class is meant to take down single targets fast, but the ele’s single target damage already pales in comparison to warrior, guardian, and even ranger and thief. Just because a class can deal damage over a larger area doesn’t make them OP! I mean, the warrior and guardian already do more damage than any other class, but it seems like every time someone comes up with a build on another class that can equal the heavies, Anet says “can’t have that!” and they are promptly nerfed. I may be wrong, and I’m not on the forums much, but I haven’t heard of any major warrior/guardian nerfs….

Ok, rant over Please nobody get too angry with me if I sounded too whiny, I’m just a player who thinks that the game should be more about having fun with whatever class you choose, we all know how constant nerfing can make a game fun only for the elites who devote most of their life to it (until their class finally gets nerfed, that is :P)

the aoe nerf talk has been going for over a week now.
I’d rather see them buffing classes that need buffing and if needed also buff the monsters a bit in stead of nerfing everything.

I couldn’t agree more! For the longest time, I’ve heard people talking about how certain classes (ele among them) need BUFFS not NERFS! But all they do is nerf this and that until all classes but the stereotypical heavy hitters are too weak to be fun to play.

“There are a few different knobs we can turn in regards to AoE some of the bigger ones being:
Radius of the AoE
Frequency of the AoE Damage
Damage of the AoE
Max Targets of the AoE

Currently, some players causing the AoE are able to do more damage to one person while also controlling a portion of the field, compared to a player with single target damage.
In our balance discussions we always look at what these changes could do to PvE as well as PvP. Any changes we make will undergo a lot of testing, both internal and by our trusted alpha team. It is important to understand that we are not doing a blanket nerf to all AE’s or a dramatic adjustment of the damage AoE’s can do. There may be some cases where players can build for AoE damage, but are just not viable or other cases where AoE is clearly the dominate way to build, and as such the other builds get left on the side lines. Its these classes/builds that we are concerned about."

source

That was on the 18th.

I sincerely hope the massive blowback from the community on this has tempered their burning desire to allow zergs to become immortal and prevent us from playing the profession we were expecting when we chose our toons.

Well, one awesome way to turn AoE into a very useful anti-zerg tool and make it much less useful against single targets would be to introduce a mechanic where secondary effects such as blast damage, conditions and so on, increase in intensity the closer the affected targets are. And removing target cap on the number of targets for certain AoE skills.

That way, an AoE would have a weak effect on its own, but when applied against a number of closely positioned targets it would increase in effectiveness drastically, to the point of being very damaging if you catch a zerg in it.

Gaudrath.6725:

Well, one awesome way to turn AoE into a very useful anti-zerg tool and make it much less useful against single targets would be to introduce a mechanic where secondary effects such as blast damage, conditions and so on, increase in intensity the closer the affected targets are. And removing target cap on the number of targets for certain AoE skills.

That way, an AoE would have a weak effect on its own, but when applied against a number of closely positioned targets it would increase in effectiveness drastically, to the point of being very damaging if you catch a zerg in it.

i thought they wanted to tune it down abit so single target build/professions stand out abit more as viable.. this suggestion goes against why they are doing it in the first place lol

Edit: but i like the idea

possibly because anyone saying that AoE are a problem in dungeons, possibly doesn t have idea of what he is talking about…or never played a dungeon (expecially with 5 targets limit).

AoE saved me from thief attacks in a number on occasions. They should nerf it, its not fair on thieves.

I don’t know, it seems like on my elementalist the only damage I do is from AoE so if that gets nerfed what are we…buffbots?

I smell a nerf to DD Ele’s more than anything else. I wouldn’t be surprised if some abilities lose their AoE damage or get a much smaller area AoE + less damage. Right now, there are only a few ways to play Ele:
DD //*/30/30 or a variation of that… with or without evasive arcana.
Staff (PvE/Ranged WvW)
and Swirling Winds Focus in WvWvW… the most boring job ever.

There’s little to no point playing other spec’s since their traits are weak.

I’d say Scepter/Dagger or Focus could use some work. Staff abilities could be improved. Dagger/Dagger doesn’t need a nerf directly, I’d say it needs to be
more focused on single target damage. Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

WIGZ.8245:

Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

What’s wrong with that? Almost every warrior, guardian, and thief have those attributes. Are they they only ones allowed to have any fun?

And why are they trying to buff single target damage by nerfing AoEs? People who spec for single target damage should be kitten well prepared to only damage a single target. (A shocker, I know.)
Every class can spec for AoE damage except for ranger but them needing buffs is a different story entirely.

skinnyb.5920:

WIGZ.8245:

Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

What’s wrong with that? Almost every warrior, guardian, and thief have those attributes. Are they they only ones allowed to have any fun?

And why are they trying to buff single target damage by nerfing AoEs? People who spec for single target damage should be kitten well prepared to only damage a single target. (A shocker, I know.)
Every class can spec for AoE damage except for ranger but them needing buffs is a different story entirely.

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability
guardian-healing, survivability
thief-damage, mobility
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

firebreathz.7692:

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability
guardian-healing, survivability
thief-damage, mobility
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

If that were all true then we’d see a lot of 5 man ele groups doing dungeons instead of the 5 man warrior/guardian groups…

Or is all this just pvp concerns (I don’t pvp)

Shimond.2478:

firebreathz.7692:

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability
guardian-healing, survivability
thief-damage, mobility
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

If that were all true then we’d see a lot of 5 man ele groups doing dungeons instead of the 5 man warrior/guardian groups…

Or is all this just pvp concerns (I don’t pvp)

I only pvp and its a real problem there, I have no idea about pve on this matter

mobility is gold in PvP in pve u can get enough mobility just with your basic dodge roll if you know how and when to use them…

healing is almost the same… in PvE u got 2 shotted by most hard encounter… so the ability to continuously healing your self is not needed (a couple of spike healing is much better) while in PvP the ability to have small but frequent heal can make a fight last enough to have reinforcement…

those 2 are point that show a clear contrast between what is usefull in PvE and what is usefull in PvP… unfortunately most people don’t understand this and u see generaly cry instead of specific cry… (have u ever seen someone accusing a thief of being OP in pve? no they simply say thief is OP because it work really nice in PvP and WvW… but it’s actually not that much of a great class in PvE…)… so what D/D could use is some slight nerf (better to say adjustment) that are restricted to the PvP area (they already used PvP and PvE set for balancing skill so it’s nothing out of this world…)

what really create a problem is the fact that PvE set is actually used for WvW too… and WvW is much more similar to PvP than PvE (not exactly the same since higher number of opponent/ally means different priority) so once again the ele mobility is a great plus in WvW… that balance our damage being not so much (due to us in need for defensive spec in order to live trough the random dmg that u get when fighting in great numbers fight)

what we really need before start talking about balnce is a new different skill set… in order to have nerf/power up specific for the 3 areas of the game, PvE, PvP and WvW…

Elementalists will be nerfed to the level of Engineers and Rangers eventually. While they will still have their usefulness in some areas, they’ll be far less effective.

The only thing I can support is a possible reduction in AoE size and/or frequency. The fact is that the community is not being encouraged to avoid obviously telegraphed attacks; this is a terrible bandaid for a more serious underlying problem.

WIGZ.8245:

I smell a nerf to DD Ele’s more than anything else. I wouldn’t be surprised if some abilities lose their AoE damage or get a much smaller area AoE + less damage. Right now, there are only a few ways to play Ele:
DD //*/30/30 or a variation of that… with or without evasive arcana.
Staff (PvE/Ranged WvW)
and Swirling Winds Focus in WvWvW… the most boring job ever.

There’s little to no point playing other spec’s since their traits are weak.

I’d say Scepter/Dagger or Focus could use some work. Staff abilities could be improved. Dagger/Dagger doesn’t need a nerf directly, I’d say it needs to be
more focused on single target damage. Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

You ignore the massive achilles heel of D/D :

anyone who keeps you at range can melt you with impunity.

Since this game is about node control, that greatsword mesmer and rifle warrior just need to double-team from different sides and outside the control point.

If you leave the point, they take it, if you don’t you’re dead with nothing you can do.

D/D is far from overpowered.

Warriors can be awesome healers with their heal shouts!

firebreathz.7692:

skinnyb.5920:

WIGZ.8245:

Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

What’s wrong with that? Almost every warrior, guardian, and thief have those attributes. Are they they only ones allowed to have any fun?

And why are they trying to buff single target damage by nerfing AoEs? People who spec for single target damage should be kitten well prepared to only damage a single target. (A shocker, I know.)
Every class can spec for AoE damage except for ranger but them needing buffs is a different story entirely.

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability
guardian-healing, survivability
thief-damage, mobility
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

i see. so you cant beat a dd elem and u think they should be nerfed?

So is it possible for them to nerf ele into the ground in sPvP and leave them at least viable in WvW and PvE? I know some thief skills are different in sPvP and reading through this thread again, I see the sPvPers complaining more about ele being OP than WvWers or dungeon runners.

Knox.3748:

firebreathz.7692:

skinnyb.5920:

WIGZ.8245:

Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

What’s wrong with that? Almost every warrior, guardian, and thief have those attributes. Are they they only ones allowed to have any fun?

And why are they trying to buff single target damage by nerfing AoEs? People who spec for single target damage should be kitten well prepared to only damage a single target. (A shocker, I know.)
Every class can spec for AoE damage except for ranger but them needing buffs is a different story entirely.

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability, MOBILITY, HEALING
guardian-healing, survivability, DAMAGE
thief-damage, mobility, SURVIVABILITY, HEALING
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

i see. so you cant beat a dd elem and u think they should be nerfed?

I just fixed it, so the list is more correct. Why exclude healing from a class that CAN heal, and quite neatly as well (the thief better than the warrior)? Warriors are very mobile, don’t forget that.

If you would say that the additions I made to the list is false, I would make you remove “DAMAGE” from the ele list, as that is the tradeoff for survivability, mobility and healing and is such a grand problem that most ele in PvP focuses on defensive skills only, winning by attrition.

Eles have always done mediocre damage, and the build you all hate so much is a result of the lack thereof. Other lightweight and middleweight classes have some sort of get out of jail card. The damage is crummy in those D/D survival builds, be mindful of that.

Another reason this build popped up, is that the ele has the lowest base health and armor in the game, FORCING you into using defensive gear/traits, as Anet gave us no alternative (again, because the damage isn’t there and the defenses are naturally lacking to make other viable builds).

Why do people always neglect to see or mention our naturally low health pool and armor, and mediocre damage for that matter. Personally I would gladly sacrifice healing and mobility for damage and invisbility.

Malcastus.6240:

Knox.3748:

firebreathz.7692:

skinnyb.5920:

WIGZ.8245:

Because right now, DD literally has
everything: damage, mobility, healing, survivability. At least from a PvP standpoint.

What’s wrong with that? Almost every warrior, guardian, and thief have those attributes. Are they they only ones allowed to have any fun?

And why are they trying to buff single target damage by nerfing AoEs? People who spec for single target damage should be kitten well prepared to only damage a single target. (A shocker, I know.)
Every class can spec for AoE damage except for ranger but them needing buffs is a different story entirely.

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability, MOBILITY, HEALING
guardian-healing, survivability, DAMAGE
thief-damage, mobility, SURVIVABILITY, HEALING
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

i see. so you cant beat a dd elem and u think they should be nerfed?

I just fixed it, so the list is more correct. Why exclude healing from a class that CAN heal, and quite neatly as well (the thief better than the warrior)? Warriors are very mobile, don’t forget that.

If you would say that the additions I made to the list is false, I would make you remove “DAMAGE” from the ele list, as that is the tradeoff for survivability, mobility and healing and is such a grand problem that most ele in PvP focuses on defensive skills only, winning by attrition.

Eles have always done mediocre damage, and the build you all hate so much is a result of the lack thereof. Other lightweight and middleweight classes have some sort of get out of jail card. The damage is crummy in those D/D survival builds, be mindful of that.

Another reason this build popped up, is that the ele has the lowest base health and armor in the game, FORCING you into using defensive gear/traits, as Anet gave us no alternative (again, because the damage isn’t there and the defenses are naturally lacking to make other viable builds).

Why do people always neglect to see or mention our naturally low health pool and armor, and mediocre damage for that matter. Personally I would gladly sacrifice healing and mobility for damage and invisbility.

I tried to generalize the most used/obvious attributes

warriors and thief aren’t well known for healing
guardians aren’t really known for damage

was a mock up list to try show ele’s have alittle more flexibility with there attributes

“Why do people always neglect to see or mention our naturally low health pool and armor, and mediocre damage for that matter.”

its hard to point you have naturally low health pool/armor when it can be almost impossible to kill on a 2v1 in alot of cases

@Knox.3748 “i see. so you cant beat a dd elem and u think they should be nerfed?”

I can beat DD ele’s and quite often too if it’s a pure 1v1 and given enough time, our fights are long and drawn out, and pretty epic.

usually its a draw cus we are there still there 10 mins later both full hp..

so im not QQing p.s. when did i say they need a nerf?

firebreathz.7692:

Whats wrong with it is warrior, guardian, and thief cant do them all at the same time..

warrior-damage, survivability
guardian-healing, survivability
thief-damage, mobility
elementalist-damage, mobility, healing, survivability

if you cant see that then you are just being bias

I see you’ve been fighting another one of those pesky 30/30/30/30/30 eles again. So OP. They should really limit eles to 70 trait points like everyone else.

I can see that most of the people supporting nerfs are PvP’ers. My main concern is that I don’t PvP, I mostly do dungeons and events with my guild members. The one and only reason that my elementalist is good in dungeons is because I can deal a large amount of AoE damage with staff, making those toughened-up dungeon mobs much easier to deal with. I run 30 earth, 20 water and 20 arcane, so I have some decent support and control abilities as well. If they nerf Eles because the D/D build is considered OP in PvP, what will happen is that our class will become virtually useless in dungeons/PvE, just like engineer I hope that PvP is not the only concern for the designers because Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be more focused on working together, not battling each other. It’s not WoW.

We have been eating nerfs in Spvp for a while now. Honestly that’s OK because so has just about everyone else save the warriors who seem to be untouchable. The issue is WvW. People want nerfs there but its an inherently unbalanced environment with PvE aspects. Nerfs to us alone there would make little to no sense. the only real option is to bring WvW into PvP and remove all PvE aspects. Fact is that it’s not going to happens. So likely well see nerfs in PvE to justify WvW and that would be BS. If you look at the community its pretty obvious that the whines are coming from WvW.

The other issue is a warped perspective of the player base. We are literally the jack of all trades class so when people say well ele can do it all its designed to do just that. Our base stats revolve around the fact we have no active stealth defense Like mesmer and thief. We simply don’t have access to the armor values of warriors and guardians. We don’t have access to the same DPS at range as a ranger does on a single target. And engis (who are in a very bad place right now not much unlike rangers) we have less variety and less aoe. Compared to necros we have less access to conditions (in terms of variety). What we do have is marginally better mobility that 4 out of the 8 classes (warriors rangers and thieves can out run us). As far as sustained DPS goes we are near the bottom of the bin and in terms of burst the same. Our burst is hard to execute compared tot thief ranger warrior mesmer or guardian for that matter and is easy very easy to counter.

Does all this means ele really needs a buff. Nope not at all. Way is means is things simply aren’t fair across the board. Warrior get way too much health even full zerkers have more HP than our full bunkers. Almost all classes get access to heavy hitting dps skills on short cool down we have NONE. Al other classes have access to ranged weapon sets while in combat. We are either range r melee that’s about it (Conjures don’t count due to long cd and charges if it was like a engi tool it would be fair game for discussion but they’re not not).

We are not OP and every other class is not UP the fact is when given the task of running in a straight line in a world with nearly no walls we can run fast. As far as Spvp goes no bunker can stand 1 vs 2 good players its not going to happen a good bunker is a stall for time that’s about it. If you cant beat any bunker 1 v 2 that’s on you.

None the less nerfs are incoming. If they nerf ele into the ground they best be ready for the Wave of QQ headed at them. At the very least invest in another class you like that not in the cross hairs. Well even engi and ranger got nerfed so who the hell knows what A net is thinking.

I play ele almost exclusively and I think a “nerf” – or adjustment, call it whatever you want – will be very good for the class. The builds people are playing right now are very easy, in particular healing and condition removal happen almost entirely for free. Add unmatched mobility and you really lower the skill floor for this class.

I think this promotes bad play because players don’t need to be aware of their positioning, they don’t need to be careful about timing their cleanses, etc. Sure, at a high level of play, eles who go into water at the wrong moment are going to get blown up, so it’s not like these players can disregard positioning and timing cleanses.

uwo.8197:

I play ele almost exclusively and I think a “nerf” – or adjustment, call it whatever you want – will be very good for the class. The builds people are playing right now are very easy, in particular healing and condition removal happen almost entirely for free. Add unmatched mobility and you really lower the skill floor for this class.

I think this promotes bad play because players don’t need to be aware of their positioning, they don’t need to be careful about timing their cleanses, etc. Sure, at a high level of play, eles who go into water at the wrong moment are going to get blown up, so it’s not like these players can disregard positioning and timing cleanses.

no class is more mobile that the thief, can remove conditions with their heals, when they go into stealth and dish out more dmg from range or upclose in 1/5 the time it takes a d/d ele to dish out dmg. no spammable good skills and long cd’s + min 9 sec swaps to attunements. bad ele’s die quickly and u cant play GS d/d and wanna get into melee range lol but u can with almost any other class and have more survivability.

Guys the D/D bunker ele is next on the chopping block for nerfs. Devs have all but said it in the past twitch.tv interview. Bunker ele is on the “watch” list.

The problem has been stated here in this thread. Bunker builds usually lack in their ability to bring the fight to the target. In other words, their mobility is low.

The ele has WAY too much mobility for his survivability in bunker form. So their either going to have to tone down his survivability or tone down his mobility. One or the other, take your pick, something has to change.

Personally, I think his problems lie in the ability to self-combo his own fields. Most classes have a ton of starters and not a lot of finishers, or vice versa, but never both. Eles have nearly every type of AoE field starter in the game and the ability to blast finish multiple times (which is basically the most powerful finisher). This allows him to put up multiple boons for extremely long periods of time. No other class can really do this, nor should they be able to.

I think the main question here is: should we just refrain from nerfing the ele and first remove the ability of players to self-combo?

Anzariel.9213:

Warriors can be awesome healers with their heal shouts!

Yup, I love our 1k heal shouts, our 15-20 second cooldown is much too low for that kinda healing!

Redscope.6215:

Guys the D/D bunker ele is next on the chopping block for nerfs. Devs have all but said it in the past twitch.tv interview. Bunker ele is on the “watch” list.

The problem has been stated here in this thread. Bunker builds usually lack in their ability to bring the fight to the target. In other words, their mobility is low.

The ele has WAY too much mobility for his survivability in bunker form. So their either going to have to tone down his survivability or tone down his mobility. One or the other, take your pick, something has to change.

Personally, I think his problems lie in the ability to self-combo his own fields. Most classes have a ton of starters and not a lot of finishers, or vice versa, but never both. Eles have nearly every type of AoE field starter in the game and the ability to blast finish multiple times (which is basically the most powerful finisher). This allows him to put up multiple boons for extremely long periods of time. No other class can really do this, nor should they be able to.

I think the main question here is: should we just refrain from nerfing the ele and first remove the ability of players to self-combo?

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

WIGZ.8245:

warrior-damage, survivability

Correction needed:

Warrior – Damage (while in 100-150 range)

Vanthian.9267:

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

Guardians get more HP, armor, and CC than bunker eles , They don’t move as fast overall, but have more leaps pulls wards and stuns than bunker eles.

They tank more people and make entire groups more “bunker-ey” than bunker eles do.

meanwhile, they can spec for pure DPS and actually NOT die in 1.5 seconds like glass cannon eles do.

Clearly the one spec eles have left, that can be shut down by a couple immobs, boon strips, or focused ranged from 2 players is the one that’s in need of nerf.

I smell a very bad backstab thief in this one, who is simply peeved he doesn’t have a free kill from every profession.

Vanthian.9267:

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

Maybe 15 level 2s who randomly stop to harvest, collect skill points, never dodge and fall off of cliffs when they activate movement skills.

I routinely see these “unkillable” eles get burned down in seconds when more than one 80 gets on them.

If an ele lasts for more than 10 seconds against you and 2 other people without either dying or running for his life, you’re horrible and need to get better.

Caffynated.5713:

Vanthian.9267:

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

Maybe 15 level 2s who randomly stop to harvest, collect skill points, never dodge and fall off of cliffs when they activate movement skills.

I routinely see these “unkillable” eles get burned down in seconds when more than one 80 gets on them.

If an ele lasts for more than 10 seconds against you and 2 other people without either dying or running for his life, you’re horrible and need to get better.

The thing is in WvW nothing is fair. that being said DD is beatable 1 v 1 but there isn’t much to keep us in range.

Just today I had this ele 80 DD chase my thief long story short he got stomped I left with near full health. There is no real trick if you know the class you know the weaknesses.

Funny how some people keep comparing ele-“bunker” with guardian-bunkers since the playstyle is completly different. Eles can never just stand there like a rock like guardians do with their bubbles, heals, low-CD-CCs, heavy armor etc.
The “bunker” in bunker-eles comes from the mobility we have, skills like rtl or flash that give us a short break from incoming dmg. Also perfectly timed dodge-rolls (with perma-vigor) and cantrips in case of need and constant little heals.

Also I’m fed up with reading kitten like

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!.

With the common bunker-spec you can barely kill a single proper lvl80-player that knows what he’s doing not even thinking of 2 good players. I often happen to run into single D/D-Eles that lurk from a distance while I run with 1-3 friends in group ignoring him. He proceeds to lurk then rtl into us doing some laughable dmg and then rtl away. We proceed to ignore him. Why would such a class even bother you? It’s some kind of nasty but not least dangerous to you.
Also all those vids out there where a single ele “tanks” a bunsh of noobs. I’ve never seen any video where an ele acutally wins against a larger group and doesn’t run away at the end or gets support from other players.

Pathetic arguments all over this thread …
Rather than demanding a nerf to D/D you should urge for a buff of offensive speccs and other weapons so not everyone has to run around with this build. I’d love to play more offensive (even if it would result in dying more often – but at least i can also effetively kill) – if there was a decent alternative I think nearly nobody would run around with this kind of boring build.

Ele deserves a nerf of All.
End of story

Let’s not talk about whenever Elementalist deserves a nerf or not.

No matter what we say or you say or who say in this forum, I expect a nerf will come, amid fire and brimstone or stealth or whatever.

Deserve it or not, does not matter. As ANet already decided, we will have to take it no matter how bad or worst it turns out. If they nerf AoE for elementalist, we will continue using AoE. If 5 ele was used to spam AoE, now we double up and use 10 ele to spam AoE. Or 20.
Dungeon run AoE spam? continue using AoE. Effective or not, still do it. (Not for speed run of course.)