Guild Wars 2

SO i haven’t played Guild Wars 2 in over a year, but i used to roll Elementalist, despite it being the weakest class in PvP and being Mediocre in PvE.

Has anything changed for Elementalist this past year?

Seems like Thieves got nerfed pretty hard as i googled up some QQ threads, otherwise i think most classes became better?

Not sure, how is elementalist now in PvP and PvE?

It’s the best class in the game.

Dungeons – http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F_Elementalist OR http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff_Conjure

PvP – http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Dagger/Dagger

I would still argue warrior is the best pve class I mean how can you die with GS evade defy pain 2 dodges + having high base HP and decent armor also axe auto does insane damage and res banner always carries bad pugs.

Neko.9021:

It’s the best class in the game.

Dungeons – http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F_Elementalist OR http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff_Conjure

PvP – http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Dagger/Dagger

Wait what? It went from worst class in the game to best class in the game?

It was never the worst class in the game.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

I don’t know from how long time do you play. But is true was the worst class in the game.
My first charter has been the Elementalist and i couldn’t win match 1vs1, now is really competitive with the other class.

I play since the pre-release and I have always found that the ele is pretty good. It has always been top tier in pvp, and its popularity kept increasing in pve.

Ele has mostly gotten nerfed from the start, it hasnt gotten any bit weaker. The reason why this didn’t show in the begining was that no one knew how to play it well.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

About a year ago, or more, elementalist was the officially worst class in Guild Wars 2 for PvP and it was mediocre for PvE.

Only true loyalists would play it, that liked the mage class in general.

Is it good in PvP atm?

Lawful.5314:

Is it good in PvP atm?

It’s the best. It can do everything in 1 single build. Even top teams are stacking eles, sometimes going as far as 3 cele D/D in a team.

Lawful.5314:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

About a year ago, or more, elementalist was the officially worst class in Guild Wars 2 for PvP and it was mediocre for PvE.

Only true loyalists would play it, that liked the mage class in general.

Is it good in PvP atm?

About a year ago, we were using FGS everywhere so the ele was king in PvE.
In pvp, the ele got a few well deserved nerfs because it was obviously too good, and after this it fell in line with other classes.
But yep, the general opinion of the public did not reflect the actual state of the class

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Lawful.5314:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

About a year ago, or more, elementalist was the officially worst class in Guild Wars 2 for PvP and it was mediocre for PvE.

Only true loyalists would play it, that liked the mage class in general.

Is it good in PvP atm?

About a year ago, we were using FGS everywhere so the ele was king in PvE.
In pvp, the ele got a few well deserved nerfs because it was obviously too good, and after this it fell in line with other classes.
But yep, the general opinion of the public did not reflect the actual state of the class

Wasnt very “king” since we had to always use FGS to even compete with other classes, as for PvP, we were way too sqhishy for the low damage we had, best damage we had in PvP was the lightning hammer, if you could remotely come close to being able to hit anything with it.

i wasnt the best pvp player but it felt very harsh in PvP as elementalist ,literally anthing would kill me and i wouldnt deal enough damage and even PvE would kick me in the nuts solo, lol

This is the best build actually for the Elementalist:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKc24wzBd0AiAB5suqRBlfHTB-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwJAoYZAA
Is a little bit different from the other but is much better
Another things the build is really good but isn’t enough you must learn to do the combo for have might, and protection all time.

Lawful.5314:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Lawful.5314:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

About a year ago, or more, elementalist was the officially worst class in Guild Wars 2 for PvP and it was mediocre for PvE.

Only true loyalists would play it, that liked the mage class in general.

Is it good in PvP atm?

About a year ago, we were using FGS everywhere so the ele was king in PvE.
In pvp, the ele got a few well deserved nerfs because it was obviously too good, and after this it fell in line with other classes.
But yep, the general opinion of the public did not reflect the actual state of the class

Wasnt very “king” since we had to always use FGS to even compete with other classes, as for PvP, we were way too sqhishy for the low damage we had, best damage we had in PvP was the lightning hammer, if you could remotely come close to being able to hit anything with it.

i wasnt the best pvp player but it felt very harsh in PvP as elementalist ,literally anthing would kill me and i wouldnt deal enough damage and even PvE would kick me in the nuts solo, lol

you didn’t had to use FGS, people were using FGS because it was DPS god.
ele has been top DPS PvE since like what? 2 years? before that just people don’t know how to play it properly, i was saying ele does insane damage but nobody even want to blieve they were like nah, you jest, then later everyone knows how good it is without any big changes to the class.

it’s just as the overall skill of the community improve people find out of ele is actually way better in pve. one of reason why people think it sucked at the start too.

Zel was wrong. A year ago, Ele wasn’t the DPS king in PvE. It was at the God tier. Now it falls back to the King rank while every others have been and are still peasants.

Ppl used to play D/D auramancer in PvE and we were sure it was a good PvE build. OF COURSE ppl were sure that Elementalist were bad in PvE, everybody was using a bad build. I don’t remember when, but it was someone name fox or something like that who introduced the LH build and started to change the mindset of ppl (he wasn’t alone, but he was one of the first to make video with strife and others). From then, elementalist had more and more attention and the FGS make it godly in PvE. All stategy in record and solo were built around corner FGS everything you could. But by then we know that Elementalist was in the two best dps in PvE even without FGS or Frostbow.

It was about the same thing with PvP. Ppl used to be all about fresh air build. Some ppl knew about the celestial D/D combination but it wasn’t until the last year that this became more popular.

Keep in mind that most stuff that is becoming popular was knew by a portion of the community for a couple of months before. It just can’t become popular until ppl start to using it, refine it and show its potential.

Anyway, Elementalist is the best PvE profession right now and in PvP its on the top 2.

If I remember correctly it was Kitsune who first introduced the idea of stacking damage modifiers and using LH.

Also, Neko has had a strong role in bringing the elementalist out of obscurantism

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

If I remember correctly it was Kitsune who first introduced the idea of stacking damage modifiers and using LH.

Also, Neko has had a strong role in bringing the elementalist out of obscurantism

Its been a long time and you are right about Kitsune. Why I remember a fox. I think kitsune avatar on guru was a fox, but I can be wrong. Its been almost two years, unbelievable how time go fast.

I play the Ele since prerelease, and I find that in the first year almost nobody was able to play it properly (including me), so it appeared it was a weak class. Yes, there were of course good builds around (most still valid nowadays) and good gameplay videos, but they were not widely recognized. They already showed the potential of the class, but not many players were able to master more difficult encounters.

In contrast, playing a Warrior was much easier, so why bother learning Ele with its paper-thin armor and its tiny health pool?
Now players finished playing the more easy classes and went to explore the more difficult ones, and now much more players discover the Elementalist being not only versatile but also able to deal top damage and boost the group at the same time.

There are so many details in day-to-day gameplay with an Ele – he has 20 weapon skills where other classes only have 10. One skill for every situation. Not even counting the conjured weapons. Takes time to learn, and many deaths. Not that many players keep up with the class.

There haven’t been a whole lot of changes since launch. Like aside from arcane brilliance, wouldn’t might stack then hammer, or the burst from scepter/fire/arcane blast work if not exactly the same, pretty similar back at launch?

Ele is currently the go-to class in pvp. Almost every team will take at least one ele, some take two.

E.g. Helseth is rebuilding his TCG team. He picked two eles in the recent WTS qualifier. According to his words, eles players just can’t strew up.

Eles are ballin now!

Easily the best class in spvp. Eles can literally do everything, to be honest they need a serious nerf.

what Snowball said is correct.

the things eles are capable of doing now they pretty much always were able to do, but the class wasn’t known/played as efficiently as it is these days so people simply didn’t know. there’s also always been a lot of ill-informed people that are under the delusion that warrior is good, as evident by this guy lol

sorrychief.2563:

I would still argue warrior is the best pve class I mean how can you die with GS evade defy pain 2 dodges + having high base HP and decent armor also axe auto does insane damage and res banner always carries bad pugs.

warrior used to be one of the worst classes near release, but then it got buffed and was one of the top 3-5. now it’s one of the worst again, only good in pve for banners really and overall weak as hell in pvp.

ele, however, is great in all game modes and has the highest aoe damage out of all classes, along with 2nd highest single target damage. thief ranks first for single target.

Perception is everything in a game that had no real numbers to go off of. Even if you could spreadsheet your way to numbers the damage was done back then. Ele/Necro/Ranger bad. Mesmer/Warrior/Guardian good.

But the meta for the game shifts as time rolls on. There was a time where there was like one zerker ele and everyone else “had” to go tanky. Now everyone “has” to go zerker. I can’t wait for what the meta of tomorrow holds…

It was pretty trash in PvP for about a year last year, and then they introduced double-proccing sigils, Celestial Amulet, and un-nerfed Signet of Restoration, making it godly in PvP once more.

In PvE, the introduction of the Grandmaster Trait Fresh Air and the buffing of the Grandmaster Trait Persisting Flames granting Fury gave it incredibly powerful PvE builds that allow for very consistent damage and incredible team damage buffing.

Kodiak.3281:

Perception is everything in a game that had no real numbers to go off of. Even if you could spreadsheet your way to numbers the damage was done back then. Ele/Necro/Ranger bad. Mesmer/Warrior/Guardian good.

But the meta for the game shifts as time rolls on. There was a time where there was like one zerker ele and everyone else “had” to go tanky. Now everyone “has” to go zerker. I can’t wait for what the meta of tomorrow holds…

There’s literally no way for anything to change for ele unless they
a) make direct damage bad in general and make condition damage always superior
b) make a stat combination with like two primary attributes including power/ferocity, which is stupid because it can’t happen lol

Wow i hate how people are so serious about the " Well it took us 3 years to realize how to play elementalist"

No guys, thats a ton of bull, there were good elementalists right off the bat, it doesn’t take you longer than a few months to figure out how to play a class very effeciently.

The only reason why elementalists became better at something is:

1. They got buffed
2. Everyone else got gradually nerfed/balanced.

There is no, it took us 3-4 years to realize they are great, people always knew elementalists were universal but it just wasn’t there, there were jack of all trades but master at none so they couldn’t get the job done completely.

If they became viable and competent, the reason isn’t that people finally discovered it, please.

Lawful.5314:

Wow i hate how people are so serious about the " Well it took us 3 years to realize how to play elementalist"

No guys, thats a ton of bull, there were good elementalists right off the bat, it doesn’t take you longer than a few months to figure out how to play a class very effeciently.

The only reason why elementalists became better at something is:

1. They got buffed
2. Everyone else got gradually nerfed/balanced.

There is no, it took us 3-4 years to realize they are great, people always knew elementalists were universal but it just wasn’t there, there were jack of all trades but master at none so they couldn’t get the job done completely.

If they became viable and competent, the reason isn’t that people finally discovered it, please.

The game is less than 2.5 years old so calm down with your 3-4 years. Anyway here is the history of Elementalist PvE build.

Kitsune posted the first iteration of the current meta build in March 2013. It was about Light Hammer and stacking damage modifier, but lacked the might stacking.

Early June 2013 we start to see ppl posting might-stacking rotation like Hamartia.

By the end of June Neko posted a completle guide merging S/D might stacking with the LH+Damage modifier. That was the birth of the early S/X+LH meta build.

So it took about 1 year for us to develop that meta build and they didn’t buff anything or change anything during that first year that would make S/X+LH build useless during the early first year in the game. We just didn’t figure out how to put all of that together into a good build.

Lawful.5314:

Wow i hate how people are so serious about the " Well it took us 3 years to realize how to play elementalist"

No guys, thats a ton of bull, there were good elementalists right off the bat, it doesn’t take you longer than a few months to figure out how to play a class very effeciently.

The only reason why elementalists became better at something is:

1. They got buffed
2. Everyone else got gradually nerfed/balanced.

There is no, it took us 3-4 years to realize they are great, people always knew elementalists were universal but it just wasn’t there, there were jack of all trades but master at none so they couldn’t get the job done completely.

If they became viable and competent, the reason isn’t that people finally discovered it, please.

LOL agreed. People just like to think that they’re better than previous players. Gives them a sense of accomplishment.

Ark.9586:

There’s literally no way for anything to change for ele unless they
a) make direct damage bad in general and make condition damage always superior
b) make a stat combination with like two primary attributes including power/ferocity, which is stupid because it can’t happen lol

Because they would never change things like raw crit damage % into a stat with less over all crit damage right?

Metas shift because people are willing to try new things and show that they aren’t as bad as people think even when they are surrounded with mindless drones screaming the current meta at the top of their lungs. The current ele Meta is nothing new. It was there since launch and guys like good ol’ Razor.6392 championing that cause back when people widely thought it was impossible to go zerkzerkzerk.

Sometimes a new patch kicks things off. Like I used to use 60062 long before the Fury blast and it was just fine but then after that Fire stopped seeing “useless” in the perceptions of people.

As they add new stuff in people will get new ideas and try things out. They’re always going to keep adding and tweaking stuff to the game, that’s what a MMO is. The question is are you one of the people who are shutting down every idea or trying to run with it and let it go somewhere?

MightyMicah.7451:

Lawful.5314:

Wow i hate how people are so serious about the " Well it took us 3 years to realize how to play elementalist"

No guys, thats a ton of bull, there were good elementalists right off the bat, it doesn’t take you longer than a few months to figure out how to play a class very effeciently.

The only reason why elementalists became better at something is:

1. They got buffed
2. Everyone else got gradually nerfed/balanced.

There is no, it took us 3-4 years to realize they are great, people always knew elementalists were universal but it just wasn’t there, there were jack of all trades but master at none so they couldn’t get the job done completely.

If they became viable and competent, the reason isn’t that people finally discovered it, please.

LOL agreed. People just like to think that they’re better than previous players. Gives them a sense of accomplishment.

Exactly, people like to think that they are better, but there were GREAT elementalist PvP videos out there in the past too, there will always be great players in every generation and the problem was the class itself, not the players.

Generally elementalist was always VERY HARD to play, but if the majority is doing better with it now, means that it got buffed.

Its like league of legends, 90% of the players are silver and there are only a handful of diamond players out there, who utilize the class effectively, but if the silver players started getting better results with it, means that something changed, by no means did they get better at it as they think they did.

Thaddeus.4891:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

If I remember correctly it was Kitsune who first introduced the idea of stacking damage modifiers and using LH.

Also, Neko has had a strong role in bringing the elementalist out of obscurantism

Its been a long time and you are right about Kitsune. Why I remember a fox. I think kitsune avatar on guru was a fox, but I can be wrong. Its been almost two years, unbelievable how time go fast.

“Kitsune” is the Japanese word for fox. Could be why you had “fox” stuck in your head.

@OP: i prefer my ele to my thief for dungeons due to its group might/fury stacking. It’s absolutely excellent for both guild groups and pugs. You can sit back and semi – carry newer players too with some of the group healing abilities on staff (for non optimized or non speed run groups). You just need a bunch of blast finishers to pump out the watee field heals if someone is about to go down, then switch back into fire.

I’ve watched a few youtube videos from two years ago and from few months ago, the damage elementalist deals in them is substantially better. People didn’t just get better all of a sudden, there is much better sustain damage now aswell.

Also i’ve noticed they changed the whole PvP gear system and how Traits work, they used to be from lv15 i think and you got a bunch of points to throw into there? Now you just get a couple and they do not influence your stats anymore? Not sure, havent checked the traits in detail yet.

Let’s clarify:

In pvp the ele was always good, sometimes too good, sometimes just above average. But it required a high skill level to perform well.

The interesting story is in PvE. There has been two major changes for the ele: the nerf of FGS, and the introduction of persisting flame. Two years ago, most PvE players followed the advice of Daphoenix: they used a pvp spec to have a high sustain and survive. Meanwhile some players were developing other specs (zerker staff 66002 was my very first build for leveling and dungeons), but it is true that our skill level was not that high at the time, and we felt underpowered compared to warriors for example. This was a l2p issue. For instance, I switched from my now-meta staff build to a 02066 d/f to complete arah (still zerker though :p). As we learned how to better deal with encounters we developed more efficient builds, like the LH build by Kitsune. Then the FGS abuse gained popularity, so the ele was perceived godly. After this persisting flames was introduced, so staff became top DPS in the game and the ele assumed the universal buffing role. FGS got nerfed but IB4 got a buff, we learned that corner stacking is not that efficient, so now eles are perceived as even stronger than before the FGS nerf compared to other classes.

Long story short: there was a learn to play issue! At least for half of the first year of the game, people were using defensive traits. Only after we spent enough time learning dungeons and our class capabilities did we switch to more offensive – all in – builds. And yes, this is perfectly normal! People nowadays read meta guides and think they can just copy paste a build and perform as well as the speedrunners they see in records. Big misconception. Most of the speedrunners I know have been through this phase when they used defensive builds. In fact, if you look at the early messages on my old guide, it was first released advocating a defensive build! Only after a while did I switch to a 66xxx build. This is because I learned the game as Anet developed the class. I had a lot of time to experiment, to train, and to master the encounters. A build is specific to its owner, and becoming a good elementalist requires practice. This is why I advise new players to use defensive builds in my guides, like the 06044 D/F, but investing in defensive gear is a waste of your money and a short-sighted decision: you will rapidly progress in the game so defensive gear will soon become irrelevant, and getting used to the zerker mindset is the best way to improve your performance rapidly. Last – an possible most important – piece of advice: use the leveling period to learn how to dodge enemy attacks, get used to their animations, their patterns, because mastering them when the danger is low is the best preparation you can have for difficult dungeons.

How is staff Ele by the way? All the time i see that D/D ele is the top spec for PvP and stuff, but i really enjoy the Staff gameplay.

Lawful.5314:

SO i haven’t played Guild Wars 2 in over a year, but i used to roll Elementalist, despite it being the weakest class in PvP and being Mediocre in PvE.

Has anything changed for Elementalist this past year?

Seems like Thieves got nerfed pretty hard as i googled up some QQ threads, otherwise i think most classes became better?

Not sure, how is elementalist now in PvP and PvE?

Ele has never been an optimal class, those who say so…have no idea what balance potential means.
The class is exactly as weak as perceived in the beginning, nothing has changed and with that I mean the main design concept has not changed, if you play PvP , you are forced in a very tanky spec…..to play the profession at all.

You get basically destroyed by anything played even worst than your current level of skill if you don’t use that tanky spec.

In PvP the profession possess the lower level of build diversity among all classes, 2 years after release and the only build that make eles feel welcome in a team….it’s the well known 30 water/arcana.

Many will disagree with me ofc, many will call me a noob…but OP, ask yourself this : can a profession that rely on an amulet and a build that stack everything in survivability to be viable in PvP, be really considered in a good state?

To the OP

Ofc I speak from a PvP point of view, I feel that in PvE everything goes and it can’t be used as an indication of balance.

In PvP the only utilities you’ll ever see on ele is cantrips for survival, you’ll rarely( extremely rarely and at low level of play) see signets or glyphs as utiltiies; this is not true for all other profession where they can more freely use almost all their utilities and still be able to create very viable builds.

Long story short, in PvP ele is :" go tank or die in 1s" and in PvE….well you can go naked like everybody else

Supreme.3164:

In PvP the profession possess the lower level of build diversity among all classes, 2 years after release and the only build that make eles feel welcome in a team….it’s the well known 30 water/arcana.

Many will disagree with me ofc, many will call me a noob…but OP, ask yourself this : can a profession that rely on an amulet and a build that stack everything in survivability to be viable in PvP, be really considered in a good state?

Exactly my thoughts, not much changed the the specs you have to run to be effecient in PvP is D/D with tanky buildup and maximum protection cantrops.

I really dislike how they can’t balance out all the other weapons for elementalist, you are just basically forced into dagger / dagger with no real play divergence like the other classes have.

Hell thief for example can kill anything with almost any build, same for warrior, and a lot of other classes, but elementalist just has to stay with D/D to be even remotely close at being able to kill anything – and just equipping the weapons isn’t enough to be able to kill anything ,you have to spec yourself properly, have the proper gear and know the rotations perfectly.

Well, when i made this topic, i was kind of hoping something changed when i saw that the traits system was reworked somewhat, but i guess elementalists are still where they were, just the new gear aka Celestial made them be able to deal more damage and become actually viable.

I kind of agree that basically the only thing that makes ele great in pvp is the d/d celestial meta build. S/f fresh air with berserker gear/amulet is “ok”, you can burst people down and can do a lot with it if you play it at its high skill cap but still, it can be very frustrating to die to thieves who 2 shot you. Staff is clunky and just doesn’t feel right unless you play fullzerker and bomb people in node fights into oblivion or run in a zerg in wvw with more balanced gear.

So it’s a bit of a weird situation: The current state of ele is indeed great since it is top tier in all gamemodes. But this could change quickly in spvp and wvw roaming if the d/d meta build gets nerfed.

cursE.1794:

I kind of agree that basically the only thing that makes ele great in pvp is the d/d celestial meta build. S/f fresh air with berserker gear/amulet is “ok”, you can burst people down and can do a lot with it if you play it at its high skill cap but still, it can be very frustrating to die to thieves who 2 shot you. Staff is clunky and just doesn’t feel right unless you play fullzerker and bomb people in node fights into oblivion or run in a zerg in wvw with more balanced gear.

So it’s a bit of a weird situation: The current state of ele is indeed great since it is top tier in all gamemodes. But this could change quickly in spvp and wvw roaming if the d/d meta build gets nerfed.

Exactly where i’m coming from, if Anet decides that d/d is too strong and it gets nerfed, then elementalists is back where it was a year ago, aka being the worst class for PvP.

And judging by some people on the forums crying “Elementalist OP” , that might actually happen.

The class is great, but when i change to every weapon, it just isn’t there, i feel like there is so much potential in the class, but the weak damage is keeping it back, all the numbers need a bit of love for it to be newbfriendly.
Especially on staff.

Some people are going to say “Whoa wait, if they buff its damage, its going to be OP as hell!”
Well not exactly, if they buff the damage on elementalist, players won’t be forced into defensive cantrips and 6 water builds all the time to be able to scrap healing from anything they do, people would be able to actually invest into damage builds and try different variations, sure if a couple of them end up being too strong aka tanky and too high burst, you can tune the numbers down on the cantrips and stuff to make them less tanky, ect.

Don’t know, despite the D/D setup with Celestial, elementalist still feels like Jack of all trades, master at none.

EDIT: Like i’ve been playing my Thief recently and i hopped back on Elementalist, and what i felt is that, Yes elementalist has a lot of diversity, but it feels iffy for some reason.
And that reason being is that, with Thief i would just 3-1-2 and the target (In PvE) would die in a matter of a couple of seconds (I use D/P on thief PvE), all it takes is just a bit of AA’s and the situation few skills, while on elementalist it i just had to spam everything i have access to and swap out elements for different rotations to even survive.
Like the difference in ease to use and usefriendly-ness is like, way different. The class seems cool, but it feels weak.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Let’s clarify:

In pvp the ele was always good, sometimes too good, sometimes just above average. But it required a high skill level to perform well.

In the period of June/July 2013 to April 2014 (since the dhuumfire patch to the first feature patch) an elementalist was the worst class in pvp. There were practically 0 elementalists in any serious pvp competition. The reason for it was continuous buffing of condition specs and nerfing sustain of an elementalist (signet of restoration and 5s ICD on cleansing water). So no, in pvp an elementalist wasn’t always good, in fact, it was trash during the time period of almost a year.

Lawful.5314:

Some people are going to say “Whoa wait, if they buff its damage, its going to be OP as hell!”
Well not exactly, if they buff the damage on elementalist, players won’t be forced into defensive cantrips and 6 water builds all the time to be able to scrap healing from anything they do, people would be able to actually invest into damage builds and try different variations, sure if a couple of them end up being too strong aka tanky and too high burst, you can tune the numbers down on the cantrips and stuff to make them less tanky, ect.

See as a person who plays a few classes, I have always found it’s our natural lack of HP and Armor compared to any other profession that causes me to feel the need to spec heavy into water and primarily use Cantrips. It’s like we were created with a deficiency and now you gotta spec a certain way to make up for it. Then because everyone spec’s into Water and Cantrips they have seen nothing but nerf after nerf after nerf even though it’s their own design of the class that gives people the feeling they need to make up for it. Now you can make up for it and still retain a great deal of burst damage and efficiency but no where as near efficient as other classes can because of their arbitrarily given natural benefits of HP or Armor.

Really their whole system is pretty much mixed signals and makes no sense. Ranger has medium HP pool and is more healing based while the Thief is more low HP pool and has a lot of escapability. Conversely in Light armor pool the Elementalist has a low HP pool and is more healing based while the Mesmer is a medium HP pool and has a lot of escapability.

Damage rarely comes into the equation. We’ve always had pretty reasonable damage all told with the biggest complaint is our damage is too ground focused and thus easier to avoid than others. I mean people even at the start of the Elementalist were bursting others down as Zerker in SPvP but once Anet started nerfing our mobility (because that’s Mesmer’s thing) I know the frustration boiled over and many of those guys stopped playing entirely.

Kodiak.3281:

Really their whole system is pretty much mixed signals and makes no sense. Ranger has medium HP pool and is more healing based while the Thief is more low HP pool and has a lot of escapability. Conversely in Light armor pool the Elementalist has a low HP pool and is more healing based while the Mesmer is a medium HP pool and has a lot of escapability.
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I know right?! Balance in this game makes NO SENSE.

I’ve been watching some Warrior PvP videos, they have 28~30k hp, while dealing 3~5k damage bursts per hit, being able to down you from ONE combo.

While Elementalist has 15~19k HP and does on average like 1~2k damage , logic much?

How the hell do you end up balancing classes that they have both no damage and no hp, compared to the heavy counterparts?

Shouldn’t it be like the other way around, that Light Armor classes have the 3~5k damage while having low HP and the high Heavy Armor classes have 1~2k damage with high HP?

And despite all that, warriors and other classes still seem to have BETTER healing than Elementalist does, by default, while having even more HP and Damage.

Other classes having better healing the ele? I doubt that.

Yes, the base stats of the ele are not in our favour. In fact, a lot of our skills are underpowered. But many of our traits are completely OP compared to other classes, and we have strong synergies (at least in arcane and water).

I would say that the ele is balanced. However … it requires a ton of practice, which is its disadvantage compared to other classes.

A while back, I was training with a warrior friend for 1v1 in pvp. Then we deciced to swap roles. He had barely tried the ele before, and I had never played warrior in pvp. I completely destroyed him without having to dodge at any point. I was just spamming my keys for the first dozen of duels, then I learned a bit, so I rekt him even more.

The problem of the ele is that it takes a lot of effort to be as effective as other classes. But with renewed efforts we have the potential to perform better than others.

People complain that our healing and cleansing are too automatic, and they are right. But dealing our damage takes a lot of attention. I am guessing that this, in addition to the irrelevance of fire/air/earth traits compared to water/arcane, is why we have been stuck in the semi-dps role for ever.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Other classes having better healing the ele? I doubt that.

Yes, the base stats of the ele are not in our favour. In fact, a lot of our skills are underpowered. But many of our traits are completely OP compared to other classes, and we have strong synergies (at least in arcane and water).

I would say that the ele is balanced. However … it requires a ton of practice, which is its disadvantage compared to other classes.

A while back, I was training with a warrior friend for 1v1 in pvp. Then we deciced to swap roles. He had barely tried the ele before, and I had never played warrior in pvp. I completely destroyed him without having to dodge at any point. I was just spamming my keys for the first dozen of duels, then I learned a bit, so I rekt him even more.

The problem of the ele is that it takes a lot of effort to be as effective as other classes. But with renewed efforts we have the potential to perform better than others.

People complain that our healing and cleansing are too automatic, and they are right. But dealing our damage takes a lot of attention. I am guessing that this, in addition to the irrelevance of fire/air/earth traits compared to water/arcane, is why we have been stuck in the semi-dps role for ever.

The problem with the Ele class is that there are very few viable builds, you are forced to run D/D and learn how to rotate with it, while running tank specs, and learning how to stack might while other classes are free to roll you with whatever weapon they have.

If D/D gets nerfed, Ele will be the worst PvP class yet again, too dependant on ONE build to survive or be competent, while having to work a lot more than other classes aswell.

I disagree: you can play dd or staff with a lot of efficiency. The D/F and S/F have also been used at the competitive level. I have a number of builds I use when I am just training on my own, and my observation is that it is quite viable to use less arcane.

I do not use rotations. I really like Phantaram’s guides though (and Zoose’s of course). I think he gives the best guidelines on how to perform decently, but then you need to make your own decisions to reach a higher level. I have also learnt a lot by watching Denshee’s stream.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

I disagree: you can play dd or staff with a lot of efficiency. The D/F and S/F have also been used at the competitive level. I have a number of builds I use when I am just training on my own, and my observation is that it is quite viable to use less arcane.

I do not use rotations. I really like Phantaram’s guides though (and Zoose’s of course). I think he gives the best guidelines on how to perform decently, but then you need to make your own decisions to reach a higher level. I have also learnt a lot by watching Denshee’s stream.

I really don’t think that you should base the vialibity of a build , based on a select very few good players.

Sure it works, but its not anyhwere near as good.

Lawful.5314:

I really don’t think that you should base the vialibity of a build , based on a select very few good players.

Sure it works, but its not anyhwere near as good.

The only thing you should really base the viability of anything on is does it accomplish the goals and objectives you want to accomplish? If it does, then it’s viable.

Arguing the difference between a Hammer, a Sledge Hammer, a Nail Gun and a Bolt Driver doesn’t matter much when all you’re trying to do is hammer some nails.

Kodiak.3281:

Lawful.5314:

I really don’t think that you should base the vialibity of a build , based on a select very few good players.

Sure it works, but its not anyhwere near as good.

The only thing you should really base the viability of anything on is does it accomplish the goals and objectives you want to accomplish? If it does, then it’s viable.

Arguing the difference between a Hammer, a Sledge Hammer, a Nail Gun and a Bolt Driver doesn’t matter much when all you’re trying to do is hammer some nails.

Difference is huge, and that is effectiveness.
Some of them can’t get the job done all the time.