Guild Wars 2

I have been playing elementalist for only a short time now, recently started. But there is one thing that bugs me. How come Anet added a stunbreaker to the skill Glyph of Elemental Power? What purpose does it serve? From what I understand, this skill gives a minor boost to conditions, and it also breaks stuns. But then you would have to choose between using the skill offensively as condition boost, or wait till you need it as a stunbreaker. Isn’t this skill negating itself? And if you really need a stunbreaker, there are better options(armor of earth, mist form, arcane shield).

Even if you used the skill for more conditions, is it really that good? Is there anyone here who uses this skill? If so, can you explain to me what is good about it, and how it’s best used?

Oh, and another thing. I also don’t like that they removed stunbreaking from lightning flash. I can understand that the skill itself would bring too much utility, but the skill bugs out sometimes without stability. If you get cc-ed, then teleport away, you might get stuck, unable to do anything in 2-3 seconds(even after cc ends). With a stunbreaker aswell they could increase the cooldown or something.

What do you guys think, do you like GoEP, or the removal of stunbreak from LF?

I use it sometimes when i roam with a group. You are really underestimating how good it is. If you run a condition build, the burn is very good when you are circling in your other attunements. The freeze absolutely destroys other elementalists and is good for controlling warriors and guardians. The weakness is pretty good 1v1 against thieves/warriors. The only one I don’t really use is earth because the freeze is better.

The only time I ever use GoEP is as my second stun breaker for Jormag.

That stunbreak change was a huge hit to eles. Lightning Flash was one of our pretty much required skills with a universally beneficial effect. Its new function means that offensively it’s inherently better for power-based builds (with a negligible DPS increase given its recharge) and is now terrible as a reactive skill against stuns, because the distance cannot be increased and most stuns last long enough for the person attacking you to close the gap you just created.

There’s a huge rant that could be posted about either of those skills you mentioned, but I’m sincerely hoping Anet realizes that it hurt eles way too much to justify the change. Even if conditions/stuns are toned down, those skills will still be hurting.

I like GoEP on its own, but don’t really see the point of the stunbreaker change like you said. I wish it was 33% instead of 25%, but as Frowny said, it’s pretty good. If you trait high in air (use zerker’s for extra fun) for vuln on crit and in fire for burn on crit, mix it with GoEP in air or water and you’re throwing out 3 diff conditions on top of a bleed, say from spamming 1 on scepter or 4 on dag offhand.

OoooLah lah. I’m sure people have even better uses

That said though, stunbreaker is very odd.

It might turn out to be a good ability if we get some buffs to our condition traits and get some more conditions. For now it’s really not that useful compared to our other options for stunbreakers.

Wryog.5073:

It might turn out to be a good ability if we get some buffs to our condition traits and get some more conditions. For now it’s really not that useful compared to our other options for stunbreakers.

It will always have a contradictory nature that makes the player waste one effect or the other. It’s a terrible place to have a stunbreaker and whoever made the decision to put it there should be ashamed.

Agreed, it doesn’t make any sense at all.

It would make more sense if they put it on Glyph of Storms, but even that is worse than losing it on cleansing flame, and lightning flash. I really miss it on LF.

Overall, it feels like the dev team wants our class to be hard to pvp with, rather than fun to play.

tldr – Everyone is right about Ele getting the shaft. In the future, expect it.

I can’t be the only ele player the has watched or particapted in GvG or ZvZ. How can any Ele player seriously concede a stun breaker? Look at how useless crowd control is in the Big Game. Elementalists have been shafted in every way, including avoiding crowd control. That means that anything an Ele has is of greater value than it would be to another class. We need to learn this phrase, “An Elementalist cannot be powerful.” We need to recall that phrase when we wonder why something does not make sense. You see we are thinking wrong.

Spectre.6452:

I have been playing elementalist for only a short time now, recently started. But there is one thing that bugs me. How come Anet added a stunbreaker to the skill Glyph of Elemental Power? What purpose does it serve? From what I understand, this skill gives a minor boost to conditions, and it also breaks stuns. But then you would have to choose between using the skill offensively as condition boost, or wait till you need it as a stunbreaker. Isn’t this skill negating itself? And if you really need a stunbreaker, there are better options(armor of earth, mist form, arcane shield).

Even if you used the skill for more conditions, is it really that good? Is there anyone here who uses this skill? If so, can you explain to me what is good about it, and how it’s best used?

Oh, and another thing. I also don’t like that they removed stunbreaking from lightning flash. I can understand that the skill itself would bring too much utility, but the skill bugs out sometimes without stability. If you get cc-ed, then teleport away, you might get stuck, unable to do anything in 2-3 seconds(even after cc ends). With a stunbreaker aswell they could increase the cooldown or something.

What do you guys think, do you like GoEP, or the removal of stunbreak from LF?

It’s their failed way to get people to use that skill more since it’s totally useless 99.99% of the time.

It’s still a useless skill and people still don’t use it.

ImProVocateur.5189:

tldr – Everyone is right about Ele getting the shaft. In the future, expect it.

I can’t be the only ele player the has watched or particapted in GvG or ZvZ. How can any Ele player seriously concede a stun breaker? Look at how useless crowd control is in the Big Game. Elementalists have been shafted in every way, including avoiding crowd control. That means that anything an Ele has is of greater value than it would be to another class. We need to learn this phrase, “An Elementalist cannot be powerful.” We need to recall that phrase when we wonder why something does not make sense. You see we are thinking wrong.

As far as GvG’s go elementalist is vital to GvG’s I would say as vital as a Guardian is. You don’t really need alot of stun breakers because you should be getting stability from guardians tbh but just incase mist form and armor of earth are the only ones you need.

The crowd control is very good in GvG’s everyone has stability at the beginning anyway thats why you have necros! As the GvG goes on then your CC becomes useful.

This is just in regards to GvG’s

To me, the stunbreaker on GoEP makes sense. Glyphs are all about versatility. You can pick the desired effect based on your attunement. What the stunbreaker does is add to that versatility: you cannot just pick a condition of choice, but you can also save it and use it to breaks stuns should you want to. Compared to the other glyphs we have available, GoEP was the best choice. And having stunbreakers be a single skilltype did hurt our build variety a lot.

Being force to WASTE Armor of Earth to break stun is just as ridiculous. It has a super long recharge and is the only stability skill the ele has.

It was better before they nerfed Mist form.

What really ever annoyed me about this skill was the lack of precision in the tooltip (Your skills have a “chance” to inflict x condition depending on your attunement). Great. Couldn’t be less precise. Could just tell “your skills might do something or not, just try and see it for yourself if it’s useless or not, you won’t make any harm anyway”.

ThiBash.5634:

To me, the stunbreaker on GoEP makes sense. Glyphs are all about versatility. You can pick the desired effect based on your attunement. What the stunbreaker does is add to that versatility: you cannot just pick a condition of choice, but you can also save it and use it to breaks stuns should you want to. Compared to the other glyphs we have available, GoEP was the best choice. And having stunbreakers be a single skilltype did hurt our build variety a lot.

You pick the desired effect based on attunement and potentially waste your stunbreak, or you use the stunbreak and potentially miss the attunement you want to get the condition from, unless you want to sit in one attunement just to wait for a stun.

A better idea would have been to give the stunbreak a retaliatory effect, causing some kind of PBAoE effect with an additional condition based on your current attunement. In its current state it’s borderline useless anywhere but PvE.

Xillllix.3485:

Being force to WASTE Armor of Earth to break stun is just as ridiculous. It has a super long recharge and is the only stability skill the ele has.

It was better before they nerfed Mist form.

What would you use Armor of Earth for then, if not against stun? How is a stunbreaker/stability skill wasted if you use it to protect against stuns?

Leuca.5732:

You pick the desired effect based on attunement and potentially waste your stunbreak, or you use the stunbreak and potentially miss the attunement you want to get the condition from, unless you want to sit in one attunement just to wait for a stun.

It’s a choice you’ll have to make, but that’s what glyphs are about basically: lots of choice. The only difference with this one is that you have 5 options instead of 4. I guess we disagree on how to use it during a fight, but at least having a stunbreaker doesn’t hurt the skill. So why not just leave it where it is? And if not that, which glyph would you use it on instead that makes more sense?

ThiBash.5634:

What would you use Armor of Earth for then, if not against stun? How is a stunbreaker/stability skill wasted if you use it to protect against stuns?

Because any organized guild will hit you first with a bunch of guardians knocking you down with their hammers, necros with fear, mesmers with daze, etc.

You need your stability first to successfully drop Churning earth or Meteorshower without getting interrupted. AoEarth will be unusable as a stun breaker for 90 sec. Keeping it to break stun pretty much guarantee that your slow-to-cast spells will be interrupted.

What other stability skill does the ele have? None. Therefore that stability on Armor of Earth is extremely precious; I wouldn’t use it to break stun unless I foresee myself dropping my most powerful spells just after, or if it’s a run-for-your-life situation.

ThiBash.5634:

It’s a choice you’ll have to make, but that’s what glyphs are about basically: lots of choice. The only difference with this one is that you have 5 options instead of 4. I guess we disagree on how to use it during a fight, but at least having a stunbreaker doesn’t hurt the skill. So why not just leave it where it is? And if not that, which glyph would you use it on instead that makes more sense?

That’s an awful choice to have to make when stunbreakers are so valuable.

Having a stunbreaker on the skill wouldn’t matter if they hadn’t taken that function from another skill.

Xillllix.3485:

Because any organized guild will hit you first with a bunch of guardians knocking you down with their hammers, necros with fear, mesmers with daze, etc.

You need your stability first to successfully drop Churning earth or Meteorshower without getting interrupted. AoEarth will be unusable as a stun breaker for 90 sec. Keeping it to break stun pretty much guarantee that your slow-to-cast spells will be interrupted.

So that basically means you’re using it as just that: a stunbreaker right? I thought you meant not to use it to protect you against stuns. Pre-emptive use functions well too. My mistake, I misunderstood.

What other stability skill does the ele have? None.

Though technically traits, we have Earth’s Embrace and Rock Solid. The first I’m glad that it’s also a stunbreaker, the second won’t work with Churning Earth, true, but it works very well with Meteor Shower.

Leuca.5732:

That’s an awful choice to have to make when stunbreakers are so valuable.

Having a stunbreaker on the skill wouldn’t matter if they hadn’t taken that function from another skill.

Like you said, stunbreakers are that valuable and that’s the primary reason only cantrip builds were viable before the change. The game encourages to focus on a single utility skilltype and used to force us into bringing at least 1 cantrip, or focus on the completely. Spreading them among the skill types promotes build diversity and the change was neccesary, but I’ll admit not every utility tree was equally suited to have a stunbreaker added. With that in mind, I still feel adding it to GoEP makes the most sense and ties in with the overall design and purpose of glyphs. You’re always making tough choices with glyphs. If can’t handle that, don’t play glyphs. ;-)

No but seriously, what would you have done under these circumstances?

ThiBash.5634:

Like you said, stunbreakers are that valuable and that’s the primary reason only cantrip builds were viable before the change. The game encourages to focus on a single utility skilltype and used to force us into bringing at least 1 cantrip, or focus on the completely. Spreading them among the skill types promotes build diversity and the change was neccesary, but I’ll admit not every utility tree was equally suited to have a stunbreaker added. With that in mind, I still feel adding it to GoEP makes the most sense and ties in with the overall design and purpose of glyphs. You’re always making tough choices with glyphs. If can’t handle that, don’t play glyphs. ;-)

No but seriously, what would you have done under these circumstances?

No, cantrip builds were brought because they were superior skills, not simply because they break stuns. Our other utilities are not useful on a global level, with arcane skills having some degree of spike potential. Stunbreakers are only useful when the skill they are tied to is useful. In the case of cantrips they all had some dual usefulness. GoEP locks the condition to one attunement, and only has a 25% chance to apply said condition. This effect is negligible to the point that the only reason you would take the skill is for the stunbreak, only nobody ends up taking the skill because the stunbreak isn’t worth losing your slot’s usefulness.

You can also see that a huge number of eles still take Lightning Flash. This is because although the stunbreak it needs (especially in this meta) is gone, the mobility and utility is too good to pass up in comparison to our other terrible utilities, given the global effectiveness of a teleport that has potential to grant regen/vigor/condition removal/might.

If eles had more viable utility options from the get-go, we wouldn’t be in this predicament. As it is, ele stunbreakers are going to require another overhaul, because they’re just vastly inferior right now.

You might want to look at what build diversity those stunbreaker changes actually brought to eles before you use your bolded statement again.

Even though cantrips have been nerfed, as long as I have played elementalist, I have played with 2-3 of them. Why? When I slot my utilities, I want utilities that bring something useful, something which I really need in my fights.

Signets? Some of them are ok, but decent at best. Except signet of restoration. I love it.

Arcana skills? Can be quite useful, but only wave suits my playstyle. 3 blocks means jack kitten against a guild, 5 crit hits is meh with d/d(it is mostly aoe), the projectile blast deals the same damage as wave, but wave hits 5 people. Arcane wave is nice imo, fits my playstyle. Semi-low cooldown on a damage burst + blast finisher is great.

Glyphs? Glyph of renewal can be a death sentence in certain fights, at least those I participate in. Lesser/greater elemental? Can be useful, but they are too slow for my movement to be any useful/dies to aoe. Glyph of Storms? The static playstyle of this doesn’t work out for me. My enemies won’t stand still, they will just move away from this. GoEP? I already have alot of fire, and enough cripple. More immobilize would be better. Weakness? Very good, but I don’t sit in air all day waiting for it to proc. Chilling? This seems as a very good one, as chilling hurts your cooldowns. But I don’t switch to water to land autos, I switch to water to heal up, then switch back to something offensive.

Cantrips? Stunbreaks alone cannot help against the amount of cc groups of warriors/guardians/elementalists can put out, so stability is a necessity(Armor of Earth). Mistform? The only utility slot that lets you avoid tons of damage, while also letting you reposition. Good luck not bringing this to a big fight. Lightning flash? The utility it offers is really great in some situations. It lets you reposition, land a churning earth more easily and also adds more chasing/escaping options. Cleansing Fire? Without the stunbreaker it is decent at best. GoEP stole its stunbreak >:C

The thing about GoEP, is that I feel like the skill is working towards itself. Would’nt it be most optimal to pop it as the fight starts, so you get more conditions in? But then you would waste the stunbreak. If you wait for the stunbreak to be useful, you wasted some potential of those conditions. It might be useful for some people.

Also, in my own opinion, the conditions you get aren’t worth the slot you put them in. What if they tweaked the skill so that it gave other conditions? Chill and weakness is fine, but cripple? How about immob? How about torment in fire attune?

I just want to add, mistform is now being nerfed. It’s not invurerability anymore, it works like endure pain on war. Anet loves to nerf those useful utilities
Why? When did we get the same base health and toughness as warriors? It’s not like we can survive like them, so why nerf our defensive cababilities?

Leuca.5732:

No, cantrip builds were brought because they were superior skills, not simply because they break stuns.

Yes, they’re good skills. It was the combination of those two effects that made them mandatory. Other skills are good too, but you have to give them a chance. Sticking to cantrips because they used to be uber isn’t the answer.

You might want to look at what build diversity those stunbreaker changes actually brought to eles before you use your bolded statement again.

It was the lack of a stunbreaker that kept full signet builds from being playable. You severely underestimate non-cantrips. Would you really prefer cantrips to be the only viable build because they’re the only ones with stunbreakers?

Glyph of renewal can be a death sentence in certain fights, at least those I participate in.

Not my favorite skill either, but I’ve noticed that you can use it for a targetted 1200 range res when you use it in Air, and still move while casting. For dungeon fights (like against Lupicus), that can sometimes be useful because you can res people on the go without being anywhere near them.

Lesser/greater elemental? Can be useful, but they are too slow for my movement to be any useful/dies to aoe.

It greatly depends on how you use them. If you combine them with other snares (like GoEP and weapon skills) they can start hitting stuff, and both Ice and Earth have snares of their own. Earth elementals can also take quite a few hits and have their own skills for protection and weakness.

GoEP? I already have alot of fire, and enough cripple. More immobilize would be better. Weakness? Very good, but I don’t sit in air all day waiting for it to proc. Chilling? This seems as a very good one, as chilling hurts your cooldowns. But I don’t switch to water to land autos, I switch to water to heal up, then switch back to something offensive.

You may wish to know that the chosen condition depends on the attunement you cast GoEP in. If you cast it in water, your fire/air/earth spells will also have a chance to chill. The idea behind the glyph is not to replace your conditions, but rather to compliment them. If it’s active, each hit you do land will have a chance to make the next one easier to land. Combined the staff’s own snares, the elementals and GoEP can make hitting stuff a LOT easier.

ThiBash.5634:

Yes, they’re good skills. It was the combination of those two effects that made them mandatory. Other skills are good too, but you have to give them a chance. Sticking to cantrips because they used to be uber isn’t the answer.

No, the other skills are not really that good. Our conjures are extremely impractical, our glyphs (even GoEP) are borderline useless, our signets mostly give us passives we don’t need that sometimes don’t even go well with their active effects, which we often don’t need due to inherent ele abilities. Arcane skills are decent, but still below par if you’re not playing instagib.

It was the lack of a stunbreaker that kept full signet builds from being playable. You severely underestimate non-cantrips. Would you really prefer cantrips to be the only viable build because they’re the only ones with stunbreakers?

No, it was a lack of inherent needed utility with signets that kept (keeps) them from being used. Only two of them provide any really-needed passive effect (earth/restoration) and none of the actives really provide something eles don’t already have enough access to. Combined with the fact that there are very few related traits that don’t require a large number of points into otherwise bad traitlines, signet builds are still sub-par. Giving signet of air a stunbreaker doesn’t fix the problems signet builds have; it just makes eles want to have a 30 second cd stunbreaker. We don’t really need the passive, and the active isn’t particularly useful. The cd on the skill is just good enough to warrant using it, since we don’t miss out by keeping it in its passive state until it’s needed.

ThiBash.5634:

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Oh, my bad then, I see. But It won’t change the fact that I would pick this skill for the stunbreaker rather than the conditions, if I ever did so. I love cantrips, but it would be cool if they made glyphs and especially signets more appealing. And by making them more appealing, Im talking about buffing them, not by nerfing cantrips into oblivion.

If the glyph had defensive abilities, it would make sense to make it a stunbreak. If it was like a leap or such, it would make sense too, but an over-time-trigger effect? You will either save it for when you actually are stunned and not receive the boons until into the fight, or use it (as it is intended) before the fight, and have no stunbreak. Currently it’s just plain weird, to put it mildly.