Guild Wars 2

LOOK HERE!!!! IS A YOUR IDEA!!!!! Why did you change it??
Conjurer: Gain fire aura for 5 seconds when an ally picks up a conjured weapon; Conjured weapons have 10 more charges.
Can you please change it like was befoure of your last update?
The signet can give to you fire aura too….
Look this build (Finally we can use signet):
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABpAJkBOg~
If you change the number II of fire and put like befoure signet give Fire aura!!!!!!
And can be even much better than this!!!!

Conjurer is one of the most weak and irrelevant traits they introduced so far. What Auras have to do with conjured weapons?! How lame is to get the Aura if someone else picks the weapon?! How is this helping elementalist to use Conjured weapons more efficiently?!

I believe they should change it to something that helps you to survive while using Conjures or something that give you access to your elements, like bonus passives while on an element.

Make conjure weapon gives you a random boon every 5s.

The current approach of “get your allies to pick up your weapon so you can get an aura” is.. very weird.

they changed it for one reason: the new sunspot gives fire aura every time you attune to fire. if you take both traits to give boons when you apply an aura, you get 5s protection, fury, and swiftness every time you apply an aura. sunspot essentially has a 10 second cooldown (8.5 seconds when you take arcana, edit: which you obviously are NOT in this case.). before you consider any other source of auras, that’s a potential (edit:) 50% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. just from attunement dancing.

as for conjurer: to make it more support oriented, the trait could make the stat bonuses from wielding the conjured weapon, into a shared buff with any allies withing 300-600 range of the person who wields the conjured weapon.

as for signets: written in stone could also turn the active effects of signets into 300 range AoE’s, in addition to it’s previewed effects.

(EDIT: my point for mentioning 8.5 seconds with arcan was to show that you don’t need to take arcana to have better than 50% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. because there are more auras on weapons skills, and more auras on traits, too.)

Forgotten Legend.9281:

they changed it for one reason: the new sunspot gives fire aura every time you attune to fire. if you take both traits to give boons when you apply an aura, you get 5s protection, fury, and swiftness every time you apply an aura. sunspot essentially has a 10 second cooldown (8.5 seconds when you take arcana). before you consider any other source of auras, that’s a potential 60% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. just from attunement dancing.

as for conjurer: to make it more support oriented, the trait could make the stat bonuses from wielding the conjured weapon, into a shared buff with any allies withing 300-600 range of the person who wields the conjured weapon.

as for signets: written in stone could also turn the active effects of signets into 300 range AoE’s, in addition to it’s previewed effects.

You are getting into 6/6/6/6/6 territory right now. To get protection, swiftness, furry from auras that is fire, air, and earth right there. So now you can’t take arcana which you said they would still take. That leaves you only without water which is much stronger than the 3 lines you did take so that wouldn’t be that great anyways.

I would like that the signet also give fire aura!!!!
I want chang build! We have only cantrips!!!!
Traits for conjure? Trait for gylph? Traits for Arcane?? Traits for signet? Are all really bad!!!
Arenante have post befoure his last specialization trait that they will give fire aura to signet!!! Was a really great idea!!! Now they change it only for the conjure weapon!
I WANT IT BACK!!!!

Ehh.
It’s sort of a buff for aurashare builds, especially if we get some content where that’s more useful, in that it lets you give nearby allies your aura buffs when they need them instead of when you decide to share them (so if someone suddenly realizes they’re out of dodges, they can grab your conjure for some protection).

It’s only ehh because conjures needed bigger buffs, along the lines of instant cast or an effect upon successful cast.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

they changed it for one reason: the new sunspot gives fire aura every time you attune to fire. if you take both traits to give boons when you apply an aura, you get 5s protection, fury, and swiftness every time you apply an aura. sunspot essentially has a 10 second cooldown (8.5 seconds when you take arcana). before you consider any other source of auras, that’s a potential 60% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. just from attunement dancing.

Except you cant take Sunspot (in Fire Line) with Protection (in Earth Line) and Fury/Swiftness (in Air Line) AND 8.5s cd on attunement (in Arcane). <—4 Lines already, not to mention you said “before you consider any other source of auras,” those of which belong to WATER and AIR. That’s a 6/6/6/6/6 build. As such, I don’t think having all these aura traits along with sunspot spread out across the ele trait lines justifies the fire embrace removal.

Removing fire’s embrace simply killed many signet oriented build (and yes, there are MANY builds that revolve around this trait, not just 1).

Generally speaking, the typical fire’s embrace build would have Fire and Earth, but the third chosen trait line would be the source of build diversity (based on just 1 trait!). You could go Air for Swiftness/Fury while being able to get Bolt to the Heart or even Fresh Air. You could go Water for the additional support and the ability to have a more tanky variant that can remove conditions much easier than the other variants. (Currently, signet builds don’t need to go into arcane but who knows, there might just be yet another build that uses fire’s embrace and arcane). Heck, you could even consider dropping earth for the sake of Fire/Water/Air (though dropping the new Written in Stone may prove to be counterproductive to signet builds.)

Of course we all will be able to live without fire’s embrace, but for the sake of keeping the build diversity promise, I strongly urge devs to reconsider merging fire’s embrace with conjurer again (conjurer is a weak trait as it is right now anyway).

my point for mentioning 8.5 seconds with arcana was to show that you don’t need to take arcana to have better than 50% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. because there are more auras on weapons skills, and more auras on traits, too. 1.5 second difference in attunement recharge doesn’t hurt the maintenace of those boons.

no where did i ever imply more than 3 trait lines being taken at once. i never used the word “and” when referring to 8.5 seconds when you take arcana, and the arcana comment was parenthetical, which means it’s a side thought, not part of the actual argument i was making.

fire + earth + air gives you 50% uptime without considering tempest defense or any weapon skill auras. and without arcana.

air + earth + water will also grant you better than 50% uptime with a proper rotation on certain weapon sets. taking all 5 aura traits in those lines grants a lot of protection, fury, and swiftness.

if you take arcana, by itself, you can maintain 30% protection, 100% fury, just by stance dancing.

no matter which way you look at it, protection, fury, and swiftness is really easy to maintain without fire’s embrace.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

my point for mentioning 8.5 seconds with arcana was to show that you don’t need to take arcana to have better than 50% uptime of protection, fury, and swiftness. because there are more auras on weapons skills, and more auras on traits, too. 1.5 second difference in attunement recharge doesn’t hurt the maintenace of those boons.
no where did i ever imply more than 3 trait lines being taken at once. i never used the word “and” when referring to 8.5 seconds when you take arcana, and the arcana comment was parenthetical, which means it’s a side thought, not part of the actual argument i was making.
fire + earth + air gives you 50% uptime without considering tempest defense or any weapon skill auras. and without arcana.
air + earth + water will also grant you better than 50% uptime with a proper rotation on certain weapon sets. taking all 5 aura traits in those lines grants a lot of protection, fury, and swiftness.
if you take arcana, by itself, you can maintain 30% protection, 100% fury, just by stance dancing.
no matter which way you look at it, protection, fury, and swiftness is really easy to maintain without fire’s embrace.

True, but maintaining protection/fury/swiftness is only part of the picture of a strong fire’s embrace build. Without this trait, auras come exclusively from combo chains and weapon skills, and some traits, thereby reducing the effectiveness of signet usage at all (ele signets already had a questionable presence, often being deemed as subpar to their cantrip cousin). Furthermore, the new change to the air line (+25% movement speed) makes it so that Air Signet’s passive is pretty much useless.

True, you didn’t use the word “and”, but you certainly implied it in using 60% as the number for uptime in protection, fury, AND swiftness with sunspot. Your edit certainly clarified what you meant to say, however, so cheers to that. One more thing about the math…protection uptime is only 3 seconds after applying an aura, so I’m curious as to why you grouped protection’s uptime with fury/swiftness uptime (5 seconds after applying an aura).

While your claim that auras aren’t necessarily lacking currently may be true, the point in having fire’s embrace is so that signets actually have a greater meaning in gameplay. In addition, having fire aura on signet activation makes the Signet/Aura playstyle much more effective and viable in the competitive sense.

The currently existing signet builds using fire’s embrace are able to upkeep an aura (usually fire aura) 100% of the time in combat. This, to me and many others, is an enjoyable playstyle that remains highly competitive. We are asking to see fire’s embrace again to preserve this type of gameplay, and the new skill changes simply don’t cater to these desires. Of course we’ll have to adapt when the time comes, but I certainly believe that, currently, there’s no strong argument AGAINST the existence of our beloved trait. Please bring back fire’s embrace!

TL;DR: What you say is true; however, I was specifically defending signet builds that depend on fire’s embrace. Without fire’s embrace, what synergy/role do signet builds have in competitive/slightly competitive environments? Wouldn’t you agree that losing fire’s embrace makes taking a signet build significantly less appealing? Weren’t we promised a new system that was meant to increase build diversity while being careful to not destroy the current ones? We’re fighting for a style of playing, not simply for a way to maintain protection, fury, and swiftness.

would i suggest buffs for signet and conjure traits if their builds didn’t feel at least a little weak? or did everyone simply get too hung up on an offhanded reference to arcana, (my most hated trait line in the entire game) to notice anything in my post besides the alleged 6/6/6/6/6 foolery? (now that i’ve voiced my offense at everything i said being ignored except for the nitpickery, i’ll forgive, forget, and admit i did the same.)

i am sorely going to miss fire’s embrace, but i understand how powerful the trait synergizes with other traits. i was actually planning my post-update staff build around it for PvE.

i offered a suggestion to buff signets as a compensation. the suggestion has been made many times before on these very forums: to make the active effect into an AoE around the target.

and to be perfectly clear, i am all for alternatives to the boring arcana – cantrip playstyle that i hate so much that i refuse to even attempt to compete with my elementalist as long as d-d water-arcana cantrip ele is the only viable PvP build, (yes that’s an exaggeration)

i wouldn’t have minded fire’s embrace being rolled into Written in Stone with the other two signet traits.

as for protection, fury, and swiftness. when we count fire’s embrace plus the new sunspot, and 4 signets with 20 seconds cooldown (or better) each, and earth runes; a signet elementalist would be able to maintain 100% uptime on all three boons by rotating in and out of fire attunement and rotating use of signets at the proper times to refresh the boons. something tells me that ANET thinks 100% uptime on protection is OP, even for the lowest health pool class in the game, even though it seems they balanced the class around 100% protection uptime.

Making signets active AoE does not change the fact that the signets themselves have absolutely no synergy anymore with anything else. Before, signets had synergy with auras and therefore were complemented by aura traits as well as signet traits and burning traits (fire aura). I’m sorry I didn’t acknowledge your suggested change directly before, but I believed that my argument that we wanted to protect a signet/aura build would clarify that your intended buff would not preserve the playstyle we wanted and certainly does not solve the fact that signets have no synergy.

I can ALREADY maintain 100% uptime of protection using the d/f fire’s embrace signet build. And yet I’ve never seen any complaint of this build being OP. I can make a video if you would like, but the combo chain maintains 100% uptime of all 3 buffs perfectly fine on a low enough cd to be looped over and over (no sunspot needed AND it’s our optimal might stacking/dmg combo chain). Still, the new changes bring a lot of strong changes (Blinding ashes cd only 3 sec now) so I see your point on some balancing issues, but I definitely do not agree with you on your perspective that 100% uptime of fury/swiftness/protection would be OP since we can already do that and yet d/d cantrip is still considered a better build for meta.

As such, I still see no overwhelming reason for why fire’s embrace was removed from the game.

It dose not fit maybe something in earth line should give you an aura but why lump conj weapons and signets?

Jski.6180:

It dose not fit maybe something in earth line should give you an aura but why lump conj weapons and signets?

Because it gives a fire aura and that was the previous intended placement before they made conjurer only work on conjured weapons (which is, if I say so myself, almost useless).

It would’ve killed fewer builds (I think?) if conjurer were removed from the game and fire’s embrace was preserved instead…

Forgotten Legend.9281:

something tells me that ANET thinks 100% uptime on protection is OP, even for the lowest health pool class in the game, even though it seems they balanced the class around 100% protection uptime.

sigh: here i go again, to explain what i thought was obvious in my statement.

1) anet balanced elementalist health around high protection/might uptime
2) anet removed fire’s embrace

this leads me to believe that anet thinks that fire’s embrace is OP, either because of the protection uptime, or the burning/ might uptime. BUT, elementalists can maintain burning, might, protection, fury, and swiftness just fine without fire’s embrace and the aura synergy. so the removal doesn’t make sense from a balance perspective. the class was balanced around the trait’s existence, so removing the trait un-balances the class.

now the other part i thought was obvious: I LIKE FIRE’s EMBRACE. the only reason i didn’t take the trait before is because it competed with my +damage traits in fire line. after they streamlined and combined traits, it became possible to take fire’s embrace PLUS all the damaging traits i took before.

brainstorming:
now we reach the real issue about HOW the trait COULD BE considered OP. it offers max offense and max defense at the same time. in the old system, i had to choose: offense or defense in the fire line. increase my damage output or increase my protection uptime through trait synergies.

now my rebuttal to the COULD BE OP part: i have to trait fire and earth in order to maintain the prot uptime from the fire auras granting prot. sure, now i don’t have to choose between fire’s embrace – pyromanceer’s training. BUT I LOSE +10% damage under 600 range, and i ALSO LOSE +10% while endurance is full traits from earth line. therefore, i GAINED damage by being able to choose offense and defense traits in the fire line at the same time, but i LOST the same amount OR MORE damage from the earth line, so fire’s embrace is still balanced.

conclusion: fire’s embrace is still balanced in the new trait system, and therefore did not need to be removed. in addition, it’s removal removes an alternative to the arcana – cantrip meta.

additional thoughts related to signets. why is it that fire’s embrace is the only reason people take signets? is it because signets themselves are really that weak? are they weak because they are single target skills for a predominately AoE based class? are they weak because they are control based rather than damage based? or are they weak because their utility is based on delaying the enemy instead of hurting the enemy? or are they weak because of everybody’s bias for cantrips?

edit: this leads me to one more question: if fire’s embrace truly is removed from the traits, does that mean it’s now going to be baseline? (and they just forgot to tell us? i doubt it) IF fire’s embrace becomes baseline, why not give each signet it’s own specific aura, since each signet is based on a specific attunement already?

Uhhh guys? The protection on aura trait is only 3 seconds. Just sayin.
and if anet REALLY had a problem with it, they’de just give it an icd instead ofkilling Fire’s Embrace.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. I think they just figured conjurer was overloaded and then forgot to find a new home for FE.

with earth runes, it’s 4 seconds. so with 4 signets on 20 second cooldown each, that’s 4 × 4 = 16 seconds uptime of protection every 20. then all you need is to rotate into fire attunement once in a 20s period, and / or use one weapon skill aura in a 20 second period, and / or get a proc off of an air or water trait, and / or get a proc off your runes of earth, and / or leap a combo field. boom, 100% uptime of protection, (providing the boon doesn’t get stripped or converted into a condition)

easy maths. and i’m plenty sure anet did the easy maths, too…