Guild Wars 2

I feel bad for Eles with the upcoming RTL change. If your playstyle is roaming, you’re so kittened vs other classes it not even funny. The only thing you can do now is stay within 1200 range of spawn, towers, and keeps.

Not sure why they are pushing this change to PvE and WvW where non-bunker s/d/d eles will feel the nerf the hardest.

To be honest, I am happy for any nerf they get.

I really doubt you are a thief, then you wouldnt feel sorry for them.

Even as an ele I don’t feel sorry towards this new nerf. It only brings something more to think about how to use your skill wisely and develop new ideas. Of course it affects non bunker/healer/low damager dealers eles more than those popular, predictable built eles

As an ele, who doesn’t play D/D, I hope they actually buff staff. Also, I’ve no problem believing MIrra is playing thief – I just believe they’re more honest about it than most.

D/D deserved the nerf (I hate that they’re hitting cantrips, instead of dagger mainhand, but, whatever.) Thief needs something other than glass cannon insta-gib builds. Honest thieves will admit it.

Note: I admit that mesmer and thief have been my WvW bane. Mesmer, because you’re never quite sure what they’re running till the battle is in progress. Thief, because damage you didn’t see coming till you’re already dead doesn’t belong in the game. (I rolled a thief long enough to figure out what was killing me, and devised a response – pray it’s not me that gets targetted, and if it is, drop all my AoE at once and hope. This is not strategy, this is desperate response to a broken mechanic.)

I like the double cool-down if they don’t hit a target. However I dislike the 20 second CD, it should be 15 seconds like it was before.

stale.9785:

I rolled a thief long enough to figure out what was killing me, and devised a response – pray it’s not me that gets targetted, and if it is, drop all my AoE at once and hope. This is not strategy, this is desperate response to a broken mechanic.)

I am also rolling a thief, but I so strongly hate the stealth instagib build myself. They are very fun currently with S/D as I like being able to evade a lot of things, get around quickly, and do decent damage (why I played D/D ele). I wish they would have maintained that play-style for the ele rather than completely crippling the movement. PvE getting around and running from zergs in WvW is mega-nerfed in my mind. My thief likes the change: highest single-target dps + highest mobility + highest slipperiness = I can completely pick my fights 100% and have a great chance of killing. Nobody will have the option to run from him! The only option to fight back is to get really good at swinging at air!

@Blackbeard

Take this from an experienced player with a thief…. Prepare to be dominated by good guardians. Unless you play very smart and patiently, any guardian you meet worth his salt that’s anti-melee will demolish you. So many blocks/blinds/CC…eugh… Good luck though.

Logged my level 19 scum, I mean Thief today that I made hours before they released the bomb/nerf stream.
Pratting about in EB I knew Thieves were a pain, but oh my gawd!

Some high level Guardian almost two shot me, I stealthed. For the next ten minutes, they kept trying to get me & couldn`t because of perma-stealth & knock down utility.

Poor git stood in frog camp in the end trrying to find me (or if like me, to kitten about stealth on forums) when our zerg came in & splattered it.

tbh though the class is boring as hell after maining an Ele` since the BWEs.

With any luck Anet will release their idiocy & stop this train wreck of a game…

PistolWhip.2697:

@Blackbeard

Take this from an experienced player with a thief…. Prepare to be dominated by good guardians. Unless you play very smart and patiently, any guardian you meet worth his salt that’s anti-melee will demolish you. So many blocks/blinds/CC…eugh… Good luck though.

With culling gone, this should be true – when I rolled my thief to figure out the mechanics, I could effectively be stealthed forever. This is no longer true. Sadly, they can still be stealthed right up till they drop 18k damage on you, which sucks.

(IMO thieves need greater variety of builds, but I’d prefer they do something to make Ele staff a viable damage weapon first.)

what is necromancer roaming? Oh wait you can’t roam as a necro because we have no way of getting away from a group of people. SOOOOOO who wants to cry about mobilitty?

PistolWhip.2697:

@Blackbeard

Take this from an experienced player with a thief…. Prepare to be dominated by good guardians. Unless you play very smart and patiently, any guardian you meet worth his salt that’s anti-melee will demolish you. So many blocks/blinds/CC…eugh… Good luck though.

Take this from an experienced player with a thief. If a guardian ever stomps you 1v1, you’re doing somethign wrong.

PistolWhip.2697:

@Blackbeard

Take this from an experienced player with a thief…. Prepare to be dominated by good guardians. Unless you play very smart and patiently, any guardian you meet worth his salt that’s anti-melee will demolish you. So many blocks/blinds/CC…eugh… Good luck though.

Thanks for the advice. I personally just enjoy being able to zip around the battlefield, and actually go for more sustained fights anyway (sword mainhand is awesome b/c I love mobility!). If guards own me, I will simply choose not to take on that fight. Shouldn’t be too hard given how slow they are and all the escape mechanisms of the thief.

ele nerf = more thieves around = more QQ against thieves = thief nerf in the next patch

@stale
I go off my experiences to be honest. I run a guardian based around boons+healing power, so my regenration is ridiculous. I also use Sigils of energy on both weaponsets, meaning I get to dodge a lot with perma vigor uptime. Each dodge nets me 1.5k heals. I have sustain out the kitten and with 45% crit chance + 32% crit dmg using food, if you let yourself drop your guard I can deal hefty damage before you notice.

This all being said, the more people run boon hate+stealing… The harder it will be for my build. :/ If a thief keeps stealthing, I just ignore them and walk away. Yes I toggle walk and let them try to wail on me with my blocks up and sustain, dodging sometimes. It’s really funny.

@Mlrra
Maybe I just run into the worst thieves in game all the time then. I’ve only ever died to a thief once since December on my guardian, and that was during a 15 minute duel where he finally wore me down. Which is why I said patience is key Like I said, maybe I know the worst thieves beside that one, stranger things have happened.

@Blackbeard

Yup, that’s always a plus, feels so free doesn’t it.

Pistolwhip – going from my own experience, having just logged on and run about in wvw for a few minutes. I can still choose my fights, escape any bad situation, and deal truly large numbers with my thief – and i’m not at max lvl or in max gear yet.

If you don’t get Revealed stupidly, you can pop in and out and nail the poor sucker for 6-8k a hit, circle for 2 seconds, restealth, back off and repeat.

Actually, having said that, I’m amazed I manage to beat thieves as often as I do on my other chars. Must be some really, really bad thieves out there.

MIrra.3604:

PistolWhip.2697:

@Blackbeard

Take this from an experienced player with a thief…. Prepare to be dominated by good guardians. Unless you play very smart and patiently, any guardian you meet worth his salt that’s anti-melee will demolish you. So many blocks/blinds/CC…eugh… Good luck though.

Take this from an experienced player with a thief. If a guardian ever stomps you 1v1, you’re doing somethign wrong.

Yup. That would be deciding to engage with a guardian 1v1.

It made disengaging way too easy and guardians for example had no way to catch up to them. It was almost unfair how elementalists had 2 options: kill or don’t kill and just escape. Same thing with thieves but that’s kinda how their class works so I’m not complaining. Elementalists can still save their RTL for tough situations and mistform still makes them invunerable even if you can’t heal in it. (which was unfair to begin with)

TY for understanding. It’s not personal but, I really hate Thieves. I mean seriously, you are a THIEF! The underbelly of society. No moral or boundaries to really speak of yet, your class is the Dev’s fave. You’ll get polish to perfection as the uber class. Meanwhile, anything of virtue will be wiped from the map.

I wish this was an open forum for free speech. I’d really lay out what I’m thinking

Otherwise, my Staff Ele just got beaten on hard. We don’t HAVE a mobility weapon skill. I’m just going to sit in my tower and watch as I get nothing for it

Yeah, Thief is so favoured by Devs. Getting all those nerfs, lucky kittens. Having more nerfs then any of the other classes combined (this is true, look it up), makes them a sure-shot of favouritism.

PistolWhip.2697:

Yeah, Thief is so favoured by Devs. Getting all those nerfs, lucky kittens. Having more nerfs then any of the other classes combined (this is true, look it up), makes them a sure-shot of favouritism.

First of all, nobody is going to go through every patch and count the buffs/nerfs for every profession. Anyone that does that is just sad. I’m just going to assume you’re right. However, the thief playstyle itself has never been the target of a nerf.

Name me one other instance of an entire style of play being significantly hindered for any other profession? I’m not saying this is going to kill ele roaming and small group play, but it is a very large blow to it.

Plus, this nerf is dumb as hell for wvw. Mesmers have a utility that allows an army to bypass an entire layer of keep defenses, and that’s ok. Mesmers can reduce the weakness, slow speed, of the cheesiest siege in the game, golems. Mesmers can faceroll kite with their 5 second cooldown teleport that can used while stunned. 5 second cooldown psuedo-stunbreak on a weapon is fine, but eles taking 3 stunbreak utilities (something every profession can do) is OP. Thieves can stealth permanently even without culling. Not only is perma stealth ok, but they are reverting the revealed debuff to 3 seconds. If they aren’t invisible, they can move faster than any other profession. Anyone that claims ele is faster is a liar because they catch up to me unless they’re sitting on dual pistols. Warriors can shave 60% or more of your hp off with one attack that doesn’t even require a setup. D/D ele is simply not OP in wvw compared to what other professions can do. 1vs1 fights with competent players of other professions are always close for me.

However, Eles moving fast every 20 seconds is too OP. Me getting to a supply camp just in time to contest the cap and fight for it is OP. Investigating a keep with white swords faster is OP. My gap closer having it’s normal cooldown even when my target is more than 1200 range away is OP. Only thieves are allowed to have a good chance of escaping from groups while roaming alone.

stale.9785:

Pistolwhip – going from my own experience, having just logged on and run about in wvw for a few minutes. I can still choose my fights, escape any bad situation, and deal truly large numbers with my thief – and i’m not at max lvl or in max gear yet.

If you don’t get Revealed stupidly, you can pop in and out and nail the poor sucker for 6-8k a hit, circle for 2 seconds, restealth, back off and repeat.

Actually, having said that, I’m amazed I manage to beat thieves as often as I do on my other chars. Must be some really, really bad thieves out there.

The thing about thief is you can “poke” your target and not get completely manhandled. You can literally tap someone see what their defenses are at and choose to fight them or not. Choosing to engage is solely on you.

I mean kitten I barely Wv3 on ele anymore. D/P and S/D thief are still my top roaming specs. I will say it yet again even my Warrior out runs my ele. That the reality of roaming. If you are serious about you you already have thief geared for it. No BS or inflating numbers or expectations thief is literally the best WvW class. Even in Zerg just taping folks with #1 on short bow and cluster bomb will get you more bags than anyone.

I remember one time I got stuck in bay after the opposing server capped I perma stealth for 10 minutes without getting touched. I am not running up the number either.

Even taking a camp solo I keep an extra set of condition gear drop radiation field and caltrops and watch the mobs melt. Quickest camp soloer there is.

Thief is literally the best WvW class in terms of just about everything. And no i don’t think it should be nerfed further because in PvE we are still kittenty.

Watch the QQ jump exponentially over thieves in the coming days.

Tei.1704:

Name me one other instance of an entire style of play being significantly hindered for any other profession? I’m not saying this is going to kill ele roaming and small group play, but it is a very large blow to it.

I am not disagreeing with everything you had to say. You made sense. However, I do think this will kill roaming. I think small group play will be just fine. DD was useless in most zergs anyway. The reason I think this will kill roaming is that it will just make more sense to roam on another class.

The key elements to roaming are going undetected, out running any opponents, or both. Factually you can do both on thief you can do the our running on warrior and ranger. Because of this its very hard for me to justify playing ele in WvW as it is due to meta. Last time I was in WvW I killed 2 DD roaming eles on my warrior (1 on 1 fights of course maybe the both sucked). I know it sounds strange but I usually roam better on my warrior. With the incoming buffs directly effecting my build in a good way. What could possibly keep me from that class? I am not bragging but asking a logical question.

I am not saying DD ele will be unplayable but with the other viable options that will be further enhanced with buffs how could a rational player not jump class?

To be fair, shortbow #1 isn’t the best skill for tagging zergs – Guardian Staff #1 is.

However, as long as stealth remains in its’ current form, the choice of class to roam in WvW is a no-brainer – why pick anything but a Thief? It doesn’t mean you can beat everybody 1v1 (mesmers are very annoying to fight, for example, because of all their stuns and pulls), but it does mean that killing you is nearly impossible.

I think everyone can agree with this, but for some reason Anet is okay with how Thieves are.

Whether this is because they suck in sPvP (where the main defense mechanic of stealth stops point capping) and balancing is done around this mode of play, or for the reason that “Thieves should be the most mobile” (obviously while having excellent damage and condition removal), it doesn’t really matter. Most people will just pick a Thief for WvW.

*The above can all be done in one build – D/P 0/30/30/10/0

All of the points raised are why I have started my own thief. Being fast, slippery in battle (evades and stealth), and having high damage output makes the thief like a heat-seeking missile against any other roaming class. You can get away, but they aren’t going to outrun you. Its really nice to pick exactly when you enter and leave the battle, and letting your opponent have almost 0 say in the matter. Plus fast fights are so much easier than the war of attrition on my ele!

It can get boring. Surprisingly enough, I started on thief and camped on it for long long months, I haven’t touched it in ages, making me the opposite to most of you switching to thief now. In general I find GW2 is a game where every class can just get boring after a while, I wish it had GW1’s skill variety.

Anets nerf, or change or whatever to revealed should be reverted back though, because it was stupid. The whole idea was to stop perma/chain stealthing people do in wvw, but it became a change only making it harder for legitimate thieves. The 3 seconds after every stealth whether you attack or not seemed more appropriate, I wonder why they took that route.

PistolWhip.2697:

Yeah, Thief is so favoured by Devs. Getting all those nerfs, lucky kittens. Having more nerfs then any of the other classes combined (this is true, look it up), makes them a sure-shot of favouritism.

Thief is the only class to get un-nerf.

Reveal debuff will be changed from 4 sec to 3.

Don’t even mention about spvp since the title is “WvW thief.”

Because it was a silly change. It was meant to target perma-stealthing and such. I can still keep spamming CnD and timing it so I don’t get revealed 4 seconds or not, I can’t really fathom what the reasoning for the change was from revealed always, to 4 seconds. Culling also had a part in all this debauchery too I’d assume.

TheGuy.3568:

The reason I think this will kill roaming is that it will just make more sense to roam on another class.

I am not saying DD ele will be unplayable but with the other viable options that will be further enhanced with buffs how could a rational player not jump class?

I’ve actually been thinking this myself. I’m still going to play ele because I doubt this nerf will change my strong preference for the profession. However, I can’t help but think I’m going to be playing an underdog on the 30th. If I’m going to have pretty low tier mobility with moderate damage and top tier sustained, I’m basically going to be a guardian with less group utility. Guardians may be bottom tier in mobility, but the difference between low and bottom only matters when the results are different. If I can’t successfully chase people down, run away or get where I need to be in time, I might as well be on a guardian.

Tei.1704:

TheGuy.3568:

The reason I think this will kill roaming is that it will just make more sense to roam on another class.

I am not saying DD ele will be unplayable but with the other viable options that will be further enhanced with buffs how could a rational player not jump class?

I’ve actually been thinking this myself. I’m still going to play ele because I doubt this nerf will change my strong preference for the profession. However, I can’t help but think I’m going to be playing an underdog on the 30th. If I’m going to have pretty low tier mobility with moderate damage and top tier sustained, I’m basically going to be a guardian with less group utility. Guardians may be bottom tier in mobility, but the difference between low and bottom only matters when the results are different. If I can’t successfully chase people down, run away or get where I need to be in time, I might as well be on a guardian.

I was thinking that also. The reason I refrained from making the guardian comparison is because I like to comment on classes I play. I don’t want to call guardian out or anything like that. I can not disagree with your analysis but I don’t play guardian. They do have a number of skills that keep you where you are or pull you. Judges Intervention is still a good skills and overall guardian is “ok” in chase 1, 2 and 3. They are simply bad at running lol. Most of their movement skills require a target and weak access to swiftness. So they are sol if they want to run.

The difference is that they do have some skills whether they spec for defense or not that are defensive in nature including passive healing and aegis. Fact is while we elementalist do have access to passive defenses and healing each and every one must be traited.

If any guardian want to correct what I said (not belittle) that is fine. I am pretty sure I have my facts straight but you never really know.

Sunflowers.1729:

Whether this is because they suck in sPvP (where the main defense mechanic of stealth stops point capping) and balancing is done around this mode of play, ..

That’s the main problem actually. ANet don’t give a flying kitten about balance in any game mode except s/tPvP. They did exactly the same in GW1: Everything in GW1 was balanced around 8vs8 combat (GvG priority #1), making all the other game modes (4v4 RA/TA, Alliance Battles, Hero Battles) nothing but a huge mess with GIGANTIC issues of imbalance.
And this is happening in GW2 now, too. They consider Eles too strong in s/tPvP, and are flat out killing them in WvW. Thiefs are ‘kinda ok’ or even on the weaker side of things in s/tPvP, therefore it ain’t a problem to let them keep dominating WvW.

Regarding the RTL nerf: Anyone going like “come on, well deserved, 40s CD isn’t too bad” is either pretty ignorant or just being a kitten. I spent lots and lots of time on my Elementalist in WvW, and if there was any part of that build that I’d consider for a slight-to-moderate nerf, it’s raw combat power (mainly its ability to sustain through long battles of attrition in both the healing/damage mitigation as well as DPS departments). Why would you even consider nerfing Ele mobility, when Eles are FAR from being the most mobile class in the game anyways?
That being said, none of the upcoming nerfs will affect my strength in combat AT ALL. I don’t use Restoration Signet, and I’ve stopped running 30 Water months ago (usually running 0/20/0/20/30). Yet I’m absolutely kitten about the incoming nerfs, because it’s pretty much killing my Elementalist as a solo/duo roamer. The RTL nerf won’t really affect my ability to destroy people 1v1 / 1v2 at all. Instead, it will make escaping bad situations a lot less likely (something that other classes *cough*thief*cough* have absolutely no trouble at), and it will make me move around the map like a freakin snail. When that patch hits the LIVE servers, you simply cannot justify running an Elementalist as roamer in WvW anymore, which was one of the main reasons I ever rolled my Elementalist.

^this. I liked to roam, Mist Form and RTL changes are beyond my comprehension as they will prevent most Elementalists from playing how they want to play.
Thief’s perma-stealth urges a severe nerf batting, that’s the only issue with that class, not their burst.

as mesmer i feel bad for you guys too.never thought u were too op on the field.actually had some epic fights with eles.well mesmers are getting hit very hard too and like 80 percent of our builds are becoming super weak so that we are all forced to give up all our gear and follow the 2 builds left….well but we will see if anet really goes through with all of it.lets all hope they wake up and figure out how horrible those nerfs are.

well for the time being if u are as upset as i am with the nerfs this video made me at leas smile a little

As a thief, I feel bad for the D/D ele as well. It wasn’t hard to fight one of you as it was just challenging. I only hope that ANET doesn’t just nerf your D/D spec and also buffs other specs like focus and staff.

multani.1452:

As a thief, I feel bad for the D/D ele as well. It wasn’t hard to fight one of you as it was just challenging. I only hope that ANET doesn’t just nerf your D/D spec and also buffs other specs like focus and staff.

I don’t see that happening, since Anet is of the firm belief that damage should be from melee only. At the end of Beta, staff took a 60% drop in damage/recharge, and hasn’t recovered one bit.

The idea of a fragile, low health, low armour caster nuking it up from the backlines makes sense to everyone except for the devs.

(I encourage you to try this yourself, btw. A staff ele, even specced full ’zerker so they can get 1 shotted by any ranged class, does sub-par damage compared to any class other than ranger. Rangers being screwed from the get-go because of the pet deal.)

Balancing to the 5v5 game mode is incredibly silly, since in GW1 pvp counted for a minute part of the player base, and I don’t expect it’s changed much for GW2. I know nobody in my guild does any 5v5, nor does anyone I’ve ever spoken to in game. Willing to bet, anyone who does play the S/TPvP are already on the forums, screaming about perceived “imbalance”.

Its very hard for wvw eles..thats a fact.New rtl puts them in a very low mobility spot against A LOT of classes.
No more even trying to chase a ranger or warrior and of course thief..
With 40 sec on main mobility skill theres no hope you ll outrun them .
Ele also lack ranged cc in other weapons besides staff so..
I hope it doesnt carry over

Thank god, we’ll get rid of all those D/D ele FOTMers

But I really hope they give you better alternatives on other weapons and more viable builds, being pigeonholed as a one build class really sucks.

Mumu.6203:

Thank god, we’ll get rid of all those D/D ele FOTMers

But I really hope they give you better alternatives on other weapons and more viable builds, being pigeonholed as a one build class really sucks.

It’s not just the FotM D/Ds getting hit. Actually the 0-10-0-30-30 build will still be the most “powerful” spec because of it’s healing and damage mitigation, this change will hit balanced/hybrid specs harder. RtL mobility and healing in mist form weren’t what makes that spec “op”, but they were making other specs somewhat viable.

I never understood how running from a fight can be considered winning, or how a spec which mostly excels at running FROM fights can be called “op”, but then again, I never really got into playing my thief…..