Guild Wars 2

Coldtart.4785:

Supreme.3164:

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..

Tell me more about how much I’ve been spoiled by d/d when I always and only played staff.

You are a very, very, very, very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very, spoiled brat. Okay? Magnetic Aura on 30 seconds cooldown is way too good! Oh and kitten , don’t get me started on Stoning and Shockwave, much wow.

Valento.9852:

So we got to spend one major slot for 1 stack of stability? I can’t take it seriously.

I simply tend to agree that overloads are in a good place already. It’s just the rest of Tempest that is seriously lacking.

Alekt.5803:

Coldtart.4785:

Supreme.3164:

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..

Tell me more about how much I’ve been spoiled by d/d when I always and only played staff.

You are a very, very, very, very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very, spoiled brat. Okay? Magnetic Aura on 30 seconds cooldown is way too good! Oh and kitten , don’t get me started on Stoning and Shockwave, much wow.

Don’t forget about little gems like lightning surge and gust. Lightning surge can provide blinds on demand and enables the ele to avoid any attack easily. Gust is even better, it must be the most overpowered knockback in the game. (I really hope that Anet doesn’t take this seriously)

Alekt.5803:

Valento.9852:

So we got to spend one major slot for 1 stack of stability? I can’t take it seriously.

I simply tend to agree that overloads are in a good place already. It’s just the rest of Tempest that is seriously lacking.

That might be true, but the tempest and how it fits in the game is quite hard to evaluate overall without more time trying it out.

Still, even if overloads are in a “good place”, we shouldn’t be locking stability behind a major trait. Part of why the overloads feel better than before is the stability that you get from the trait. The major trait slot could be used for something instead of the stability, that would help the rest of the tempest spec out. The stability is mandatory in too many cases in my opinion. This means that harmonious conduit will be stealing the spotlight from other options way too often.

Alekt.5803:

Supreme.3164:

Jhoul.6923:

Supreme.3164:

4)
Condi removal?
You can trait for shout removal on top of cantrips, regen and heal on shout, is that not enough?…ofc not..people don’t want to give up on strength/hoelbrak whatever am I right? So you need condi removal on shout untraited…

What is this Sorcery? There was a trait that made shouts condi cleanse and I did not see it O__O!

…I did not mention rune sets for nothing,trait by using trooper runes that what it’s good for, synergy with shouts but the problem is people still want to do damage so they ask inbuilt condi clear on tempest..but it doesn’t work like that.

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..people believe that 2-3 eles for team is normal while no ranger and few wars are used and when a ranger spec is deemed more useful than an ele in pve..all hell break lose, 3 years of dominance and all of sudden the dream is over, similar concept in PvP.

To simply put it it cannot be allowed to buff tempest to a level where stacking it becomes beneficial like it happens already with d/d; you can’t put all eggs in a single basket, that creates imbalances

Can you imagine a game where overload are instantly available, reduced time lock on attunement, 2s window to interrupt them and shouts get a 20-33% CD reduction trait?

I tell you what happens…

- 2-3 tempest spamming air overload on a point
-very difficult to interrupt them as they have at least 1-2 stacks of stab and even if you interrupt them..they’ll have overload up again in few secs
-feel the burn spam for massive gain ( aoe fire aura, might, weakness, burning and 1k+ dmg)

If you buff tempest in the wrong way..you’ll just replace the current d/d with tempest and the meta won’t change..

Always wanted ele to be optimal and never oppressive like it’s now, wanted EA as GM and something else as ele main mechanic and force staff on people who still wanted a support role on ele, force them to choose between d/d duellist or staff support.

If something too strong…people will abuse it….it’s that simple

I agree. Overload should not have a passive stability attached to it, except for earth. As for Tempest power, it’s because we need actual minor traits in the line.

Compare tempest minor trait to those of other specializations and you’ll see that the difference is minimal in terms of scope…but I can see a change to hardy conduit

Hardy conduit : gain 3s resistance when staying in one attunement for more than 5s – 10s CD

Supreme.3164:

Alekt.5803:

Supreme.3164:

Jhoul.6923:

Supreme.3164:

4)
Condi removal?
You can trait for shout removal on top of cantrips, regen and heal on shout, is that not enough?…ofc not..people don’t want to give up on strength/hoelbrak whatever am I right? So you need condi removal on shout untraited…

What is this Sorcery? There was a trait that made shouts condi cleanse and I did not see it O__O!

…I did not mention rune sets for nothing,trait by using trooper runes that what it’s good for, synergy with shouts but the problem is people still want to do damage so they ask inbuilt condi clear on tempest..but it doesn’t work like that.

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..people believe that 2-3 eles for team is normal while no ranger and few wars are used and when a ranger spec is deemed more useful than an ele in pve..all hell break lose, 3 years of dominance and all of sudden the dream is over, similar concept in PvP.

To simply put it it cannot be allowed to buff tempest to a level where stacking it becomes beneficial like it happens already with d/d; you can’t put all eggs in a single basket, that creates imbalances

Can you imagine a game where overload are instantly available, reduced time lock on attunement, 2s window to interrupt them and shouts get a 20-33% CD reduction trait?

I tell you what happens…

- 2-3 tempest spamming air overload on a point
-very difficult to interrupt them as they have at least 1-2 stacks of stab and even if you interrupt them..they’ll have overload up again in few secs
-feel the burn spam for massive gain ( aoe fire aura, might, weakness, burning and 1k+ dmg)

If you buff tempest in the wrong way..you’ll just replace the current d/d with tempest and the meta won’t change..

Always wanted ele to be optimal and never oppressive like it’s now, wanted EA as GM and something else as ele main mechanic and force staff on people who still wanted a support role on ele, force them to choose between d/d duellist or staff support.

If something too strong…people will abuse it….it’s that simple

I agree. Overload should not have a passive stability attached to it, except for earth. As for Tempest power, it’s because we need actual minor traits in the line.

Compare tempest minor trait to those of other specializations and you’ll see that the difference is minimal in terms of scope…but I can see a change to hardy conduit

Hardy conduit : gain 3s resistance when staying in one attunement for more than 5s – 10s CD

This is incorrect. The tempest minors are by far the most limited in scope.

Axialbloom.8109:

Supreme.3164:

Alekt.5803:

Supreme.3164:

Jhoul.6923:

Supreme.3164:

4)
Condi removal?
You can trait for shout removal on top of cantrips, regen and heal on shout, is that not enough?…ofc not..people don’t want to give up on strength/hoelbrak whatever am I right? So you need condi removal on shout untraited…

What is this Sorcery? There was a trait that made shouts condi cleanse and I did not see it O__O!

…I did not mention rune sets for nothing,trait by using trooper runes that what it’s good for, synergy with shouts but the problem is people still want to do damage so they ask inbuilt condi clear on tempest..but it doesn’t work like that.

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..people believe that 2-3 eles for team is normal while no ranger and few wars are used and when a ranger spec is deemed more useful than an ele in pve..all hell break lose, 3 years of dominance and all of sudden the dream is over, similar concept in PvP.

To simply put it it cannot be allowed to buff tempest to a level where stacking it becomes beneficial like it happens already with d/d; you can’t put all eggs in a single basket, that creates imbalances

Can you imagine a game where overload are instantly available, reduced time lock on attunement, 2s window to interrupt them and shouts get a 20-33% CD reduction trait?

I tell you what happens…

- 2-3 tempest spamming air overload on a point
-very difficult to interrupt them as they have at least 1-2 stacks of stab and even if you interrupt them..they’ll have overload up again in few secs
-feel the burn spam for massive gain ( aoe fire aura, might, weakness, burning and 1k+ dmg)

If you buff tempest in the wrong way..you’ll just replace the current d/d with tempest and the meta won’t change..

Always wanted ele to be optimal and never oppressive like it’s now, wanted EA as GM and something else as ele main mechanic and force staff on people who still wanted a support role on ele, force them to choose between d/d duellist or staff support.

If something too strong…people will abuse it….it’s that simple

I agree. Overload should not have a passive stability attached to it, except for earth. As for Tempest power, it’s because we need actual minor traits in the line.

Compare tempest minor trait to those of other specializations and you’ll see that the difference is minimal in terms of scope…but I can see a change to hardy conduit

Hardy conduit : gain 3s resistance when staying in one attunement for more than 5s – 10s CD

This is incorrect. The tempest minors are by far the most limited in scope.

The first minor trait is standard for all elite specializations save chronomancer which on top of shield/well access gain also continuum shift; the minor master for tempest it’s like essential?! without it you’d land maybe 30% of your overloads as the enemy would easily kite you for the duration. Without “speedy conduit” I’d have to worry to have swiftness on me before overloading anything, making things that much harder.The GM minor is redundant yes, already proposed a change.

They should just change the second minor into:

Bountiful Conduit-Gain boons when you overload an attunement (and those boons will be swiftness/protection/1 stack of stability)

And then change the GM minor into Singular Conduit (or some other name)-gain a stacking buff that increases your damage and outgoing healing by 1% each second for 10 seconds, with a maximum of ten stacks, all stacks will be lost when you swap attunements.

Coldtart.4785:

Tell me more about how much I’ve been spoiled by d/d when I always and only played staff.

D/D ele is only pvp/wvw phenomenon, most of the game population play pve where this spec is considered quite bad.

Tempest is equally bad in pve but despite that we should stop charging with 3 cantrips head-on.

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Zenith.7301:

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

Well fire overload not realy about its dmg its about being a fire field and might generator on its own with some burn and power dmg. Now air overload is a dmg power house and if you wanted to run tempest as a true dmg build you run fresh air with the ideal of comboing it with air overload for the added +10% dmg to push out high dmg right after you get an air overload off. Nothing like going air overload into BS and back into air for max dps / spike dmg. I am thinking d/wh tempest air earth is going to be a power house of dmg and support.

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

Well fire overload not realy about its dmg its about being a fire field and might generator on its own with some burn and power dmg. Now air overload is a dmg power house and if you wanted to run tempest as a true dmg build you run fresh air with the ideal of comboing it with air overload for the added +10% dmg to push out high dmg right after you get an air overload off. Nothing like going air overload into BS and back into air for max dps / spike dmg. I am thinking d/wh tempest air earth is going to be a power house of dmg and support.

Given that build very low survival rate on its own, I guess the dmg is guaranteed , you have close to none condi removal and min healing yeh, you’d die the second you’d make a mistake, a fair price for the damage you bring

Supreme.3164:

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

Well fire overload not realy about its dmg its about being a fire field and might generator on its own with some burn and power dmg. Now air overload is a dmg power house and if you wanted to run tempest as a true dmg build you run fresh air with the ideal of comboing it with air overload for the added +10% dmg to push out high dmg right after you get an air overload off. Nothing like going air overload into BS and back into air for max dps / spike dmg. I am thinking d/wh tempest air earth is going to be a power house of dmg and support.

Given that build very low survival rate on its own, I guess the dmg is guaranteed , you have close to none condi removal and min healing yeh, you’d die the second you’d make a mistake, a fair price for the damage you bring

Its perma protection good healing from self blasting water fields it can be a bit week vs conditions dmg but you can build for domain skin if you need it. You also get -93% to moment conditions. There some of persisting blind effects that should help you out staying alive all the longer

Supreme.3164:

Axialbloom.8109:

Supreme.3164:

Alekt.5803:

Supreme.3164:

Jhoul.6923:

Supreme.3164:

4)
Condi removal?
You can trait for shout removal on top of cantrips, regen and heal on shout, is that not enough?…ofc not..people don’t want to give up on strength/hoelbrak whatever am I right? So you need condi removal on shout untraited…

What is this Sorcery? There was a trait that made shouts condi cleanse and I did not see it O__O!

…I did not mention rune sets for nothing,trait by using trooper runes that what it’s good for, synergy with shouts but the problem is people still want to do damage so they ask inbuilt condi clear on tempest..but it doesn’t work like that.

This is why the ele community is spoiled, d/d ele spoiled us too much..people believe that 2-3 eles for team is normal while no ranger and few wars are used and when a ranger spec is deemed more useful than an ele in pve..all hell break lose, 3 years of dominance and all of sudden the dream is over, similar concept in PvP.

To simply put it it cannot be allowed to buff tempest to a level where stacking it becomes beneficial like it happens already with d/d; you can’t put all eggs in a single basket, that creates imbalances

Can you imagine a game where overload are instantly available, reduced time lock on attunement, 2s window to interrupt them and shouts get a 20-33% CD reduction trait?

I tell you what happens…

- 2-3 tempest spamming air overload on a point
-very difficult to interrupt them as they have at least 1-2 stacks of stab and even if you interrupt them..they’ll have overload up again in few secs
-feel the burn spam for massive gain ( aoe fire aura, might, weakness, burning and 1k+ dmg)

If you buff tempest in the wrong way..you’ll just replace the current d/d with tempest and the meta won’t change..

Always wanted ele to be optimal and never oppressive like it’s now, wanted EA as GM and something else as ele main mechanic and force staff on people who still wanted a support role on ele, force them to choose between d/d duellist or staff support.

If something too strong…people will abuse it….it’s that simple

I agree. Overload should not have a passive stability attached to it, except for earth. As for Tempest power, it’s because we need actual minor traits in the line.

Compare tempest minor trait to those of other specializations and you’ll see that the difference is minimal in terms of scope…but I can see a change to hardy conduit

Hardy conduit : gain 3s resistance when staying in one attunement for more than 5s – 10s CD

This is incorrect. The tempest minors are by far the most limited in scope.

The first minor trait is standard for all elite specializations save chronomancer which on top of shield/well access gain also continuum shift; the minor master for tempest it’s like essential?! without it you’d land maybe 30% of your overloads as the enemy would easily kite you for the duration. Without “speedy conduit” I’d have to worry to have swiftness on me before overloading anything, making things that much harder.The GM minor is redundant yes, already proposed a change.

Ok? You are still wrong. The tempest minors are BY FAR the most limited in scope.

Just waiting for the next ‘Karl tells us what’s coming’ thread. The Daredevil and Dragonhunter have both seen thought out and substantial changes in the home stretch. I’m hopeful Tempest will have similar ‘OMG we love you Karl’ finish .

Ok, after thinking it through like a crazy monkey here’s a cool idea to provide stability: what if one of our shouts (you choose it, not sure which one fits better) gave self-stability? You may question “oh, but we got Armor of Earth already”, well first it’s a cantrip so shout-boosting trait won’t help us, second it’s too long cooldown, we need a shorter one so we aligns with overloads 20sec-cooldown. Still, it shall open up for choice depending on the shout, like “is it time to use it and lose this particular shout effectiveness, or hold on till we can combo this shout+overload?”.

This option would allow a rework for Harmonious Conduit, and not break shout synergy they’re bringing with this very elite spec (Tempestuous Aria is arguably the best master trait). If you think we would be getting too much if a shout gave stability, remember it would be self-only, and it could be very short duration and about 2 stacks (ideally), striving the best way not to render it OP, and at the same time Earthen Proxy and Harmonious Conduit could provide some better options (condi damage? better healing/defensive/supportive options? etc).

I’d like to hear your thoughts.

I can’t help but feel a bit bad about the dev silence over tempest. Seemingly all other elite specialisations have gotten responses of its feedback with changes or updates.

Does the feedback we write here even matter? Seems to me that the tempest we know today is how it’s gonna be in 13 days.

Supreme.3164:

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

They’ve already nerfed the damage on fire overload, is it still not bad enough?

Valento.9852:

Ok, after thinking it through like a crazy monkey here’s a cool idea to provide stability: what if one of our shouts (you choose it, not sure which one fits better) gave self-stability? You may question “oh, but we got Armor of Earth already”, well first it’s a cantrip so shout-boosting trait won’t help us, second it’s too long cooldown, we need a shorter one so we aligns with overloads 20sec-cooldown. Still, it shall open up for choice depending on the shout, like “is it time to use it and lose this particular shout effectiveness, or hold on till we can combo this shout+overload?”.

This option would allow a rework for Harmonious Conduit, and not break shout synergy they’re bringing with this very elite spec (Tempestuous Aria is arguably the best master trait). If you think we would be getting too much if a shout gave stability, remember it would be self-only, and it could be very short duration and about 2 stacks (ideally), striving the best way not to render it OP, and at the same time Earthen Proxy and Harmonious Conduit could provide some better options (condi damage? better healing/defensive/supportive options? etc).

I’d like to hear your thoughts.

I don’t like the idea of a ‘must have’ skill/trait. Wherever stability is, unless it is an inherent bonus, is going to be a must have. Overloads are almost guaranteed to fail without the stability, so it just needs to be inherent to the overload.

The Great Al.2546:

Valento.9852:

Ok, after thinking it through like a crazy monkey here’s a cool idea to provide stability: what if one of our shouts (you choose it, not sure which one fits better) gave self-stability? You may question “oh, but we got Armor of Earth already”, well first it’s a cantrip so shout-boosting trait won’t help us, second it’s too long cooldown, we need a shorter one so we aligns with overloads 20sec-cooldown. Still, it shall open up for choice depending on the shout, like “is it time to use it and lose this particular shout effectiveness, or hold on till we can combo this shout+overload?”.

This option would allow a rework for Harmonious Conduit, and not break shout synergy they’re bringing with this very elite spec (Tempestuous Aria is arguably the best master trait). If you think we would be getting too much if a shout gave stability, remember it would be self-only, and it could be very short duration and about 2 stacks (ideally), striving the best way not to render it OP, and at the same time Earthen Proxy and Harmonious Conduit could provide some better options (condi damage? better healing/defensive/supportive options? etc).

I’d like to hear your thoughts.

I don’t like the idea of a ‘must have’ skill/trait. Wherever stability is, unless it is an inherent bonus, is going to be a must have. Overloads are almost guaranteed to fail without the stability, so it just needs to be inherent to the overload.

Well, there are people who don’t agree it’s a must, so… at least stability on a shout would be more synergic with the spec, rather than Armor of Earth (dat cooldown)…

Snowball.3497:

I can’t help but feel a bit bad about the dev silence over tempest. Seemingly all other elite specialisations have gotten responses of its feedback with changes or updates.

Does the feedback we write here even matter? Seems to me that the tempest we know today is how it’s gonna be in 13 days.

Of course the feedback doesn’t matter. The most overwhelming feedback since day 1 has been “The triple cost/risk for overloading is way too high to ever be balanced, the specialization wasn’t given the mechanics to make camping in an attunement as required work, and the role that the specialization plays is exactly the same to what we can already do but with way higher risk/less reward.” These aren’t minor “number adjustment” problems, but that has been done is slapping on extra effects and changing numbers, like putting a new stereo in a crappy old clunker of a car.

The majority of experienced ele feedback has fallen on deaf ears. I am pretty sure it is a case of confirmation bias, where those who agree with what the devs already are thinking are listened to (“yea! Everyone agrees with me!”) and those who point out massive underlying flaws are just haters/too narrow in their understanding. The worst part is, none of the devs truly play the class to a deep enough level to understand why only very narrow builds work (water/arcane/x in pvp and wvw, staff lava-font spam in pve or occasionally d/f fresh air in pve), and why THOSE builds can become “too good” in their game modes.

But yea, the tempest you have seen is the one you will get. People will try it out on release. Most people will realize that it does way too little for what you give up and ignore it. Hipsters will try to make it work b/c they enjoy being “different” more than anything. 2-3 years down the road they will throw more number tweaks at it and either make it OP or change nothing (like shatterstone). Maybe with the next release they can come up with an elite spec that actually works.

I’m one of those hipsters that will play tempest

There is two main branches where Elementalist will end up in after expansion release.

1#, people will not use Ele’s in fractals, raids, dungeons and PvP, and loudly complain/kick if a ele joins the party. After numerous complaints and statistical proof that the class is being outshined by other classes, in 9 months they will start consider some “exciting” changes that in 12 months time will result in a single build that everyone complains is OP, resulting in a devastating nerf several months later.

2#, alternative people will figure out a single tempest build that works and everyone will complain that it is OP, resulting in a devastating nerf several months after release.

This has been the major problem for ele’s since release and the expansion has not show any attempts to bring build diversity in a class that desperate needs it. The new utilities and new mechanics could have been designed to enhance current weapon sets, improve the weak condi damage, provide party support that effects defense or offense in a unique way, or enable ele to tank and survive what otherwise would be one-hit-kills.

Belorn.2659:

There is two main branches where Elementalist will end up in after expansion release.

1#, people will not use Ele’s in fractals, raids, dungeons and PvP, and loudly complain/kick if a ele joins the party. After numerous complaints and statistical proof that the class is being outshined by other classes, in 9 months they will start consider some “exciting” changes that in 12 months time will result in a single build that everyone complains is OP, resulting in a devastating nerf several months later.

2#, alternative people will figure out a single tempest build that works and everyone will complain that it is OP, resulting in a devastating nerf several months after release.

This has been the major problem for ele’s since release and the expansion has not show any attempts to bring build diversity in a class that desperate needs it. The new utilities and new mechanics could have been designed to enhance current weapon sets, improve the weak condi damage, provide party support that effects defense or offense in a unique way, or enable ele to tank and survive what otherwise would be one-hit-kills.

Both groups 1 and 2 will stop playing ele from what your saying. This is something i cant understand why would you stop playing ele becuse you do not like tempest? By the very ideal if you do not like tempest YOUR still going to play ele. If you like tempest you will stop playing ele becuse now you are playing tempest.
The lack of logic for the ele hate due to tempest is beyond believable.

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

If I’m channeling something for 4 seconds the effects should be at the same or even greater level of damage/impact as a full 100 blades or similar skill.

Especially when it also comes at the cost of increased attunement cooldown.

Overloads wouldn’t even be that bad if they bothered to bring water and earth attunement autoattacks on all weapons up to line with fire and air so being stuck in water or earth didn’t completely destroy your damage.

Scepter autoattacks all need significant buffs however, none of this anemic garbage you gave us on the latest patch.

Karl planning to nerf dmg on fire overload so…what you ask will never happen
-Scepter is as bad as before..just not at 100%, only 90% I’d say an improvement -_-, still auto-attack is not the only thing that scepter need, the weapon is extremely slow and clunky with ridiculous casting times and after cast

Well fire overload not realy about its dmg its about being a fire field and might generator on its own with some burn and power dmg. Now air overload is a dmg power house and if you wanted to run tempest as a true dmg build you run fresh air with the ideal of comboing it with air overload for the added +10% dmg to push out high dmg right after you get an air overload off. Nothing like going air overload into BS and back into air for max dps / spike dmg. I am thinking d/wh tempest air earth is going to be a power house of dmg and support.

This is what annoys me about pvp people, they have no clue.

The might generation aspect is redundant, aka useless, in a PvE group setting where a PSEA warrior on his own is keeping the party at permanent 25 might stacks or a herald can stack 15 for the party himself.

All the uses you people find for it are obsolete in a PvE setting.

If they do end up nerfing PSEA warrior and revenant group might generation, it might be of use, but right now it just isn’t because there are way better alternatives.

Ele has opportunity to have traits related to utilities in two ways: common way – by type: arcane, cantrip, signet, conjure, glyph or second way – by element type: signet of earth, conjure earth shield, glyph of sandstorm, armor of earth, glyph of lesser elemental (earth), glyph of elemetal (earth).

I suggest The Earthman Stably trait that will affect ‘earth’ thematical utilities granting one stab on use.

Secondly The Waterman Vigorously trait that will affect water thematical utilities granting vigor on use.

With those two traits we would have opportunity to use traits thematicaly to elements over type of utilities.

Maybe it would a little address some vigor and stab thoughs.

/Edit: forgot about shock and aftershock. Arcanas have no trait related so I don’t push there cuz otherwise it wouldn’t be so thematical.

A passing thought but:

What if Rebound double casted a spell, excluding autos?

Just spit balling. You know, double meteor shower….

Rebound creates a copy of myself for 8 seconds that does everything I do delayed 1 second…

Now that would be ELITE.

Nike.2631:

Rebound creates a copy of myself for 8 seconds that does everything I do delayed 1 second…

Now that would be ELITE.

They should have copied Mirror image from Dungeon and Dragon, it would have been a nice survival skill for the squishiest class and a good way to prevent some mesmer shatters.

I know a lot of people are focusing on overloads, because they do need fixes as the main mechanic of the specialization.

But in my opinion the warhorn is the worst of it all.

Humongous cooldowns on incredibly mediocre effects.

The sole point of heat sync is as a signet of inspiration that has 5 seconds longer cooldown. 3 might stacks is very mediocre for a 30 sec cd.

And that’s the least bad one. Wildfire sucks because its base power scaling is bad and it only applies burning, BUT ELEMENTALIST IS NOT A CONDITION CLASS. There’s no viable condi ele in PvE because attunements tie up the condies applied. It’s very hybrid and as a result subpar.

Then we have the air warhorn attunement, the biggest stinker, with an orb that tickles and a revenanmt axe 5.

All of the warhorn skills have humongous cooldowns for really miserable effects, and I don’t know how warhorn can possibly hope to compete with either focus or offhand dagger. The dagger completely outclasses it in offense and mobility, and the focus eclipses it in group support as the focus brings a projectile destruction, an aoe daze, a knockdown, a complete immunity skill, an aoe reflect and condi clear.

Something will need to be done about warhorn.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT AUTOATTACK DAMAGE ACROSS ATTUNEMENTS. EARTH/WATER NEED TO BE BROUGHT UP WITH FIRE/AIR.

Being stuck in earth or water attunements is too big a DPS loss to ever make overloads viable in PvE. In PvE and even pvp you jump into water or earth for the utility skills and then want to jump back into fire or air to not do total garbage DPS.

Holding dagger back compared to staff in PvE as well is the low damage of channeled skills. Drake’s Breath and Cone of Cold do really poor power scaled damage and healing in PvE, so the dagger’s DPS in PvE relies solely on lightning whip spam and burning speed.

Scepter we can’t even talk about because the damage of all the autoattacks is so miserably low and all skills except dragon’s tooth and phoenix do no damage whatsoever in PvE to sustain competitive DPS.

So, not only is warhorn mediocre for PvE, it needs to be paired with a dagger that’s subpar in PvE or a scepter that’s completely worthless in most game modes.

Overview:
I played tempest d/wh and d/focus solo and group roaming in WvW. For d/wh I tested a cele build with Hoelbrak runes and a power variant with Strength runes. Trait line combos for each varied from a Fire (blinding ashes)/Water (cantrip build)/Tempest; an Air (Lightning Rod)/Water (cantrip build)/Tempest; and an Air (Lightning Rod)/Earth (Diamond Skin)/Tempest (Aura Heal;; synched with shouts).

For d/f I tested only a power build with Strength runes. I played only Fresh Air with either Earth (Diamond Skin)/Tempest or Water (cantrip build)/Tempest because overloading Air Overload every seven seconds was just too fun.

Feedback:
-Dagger/Warhorn: In my experience, with the above builds, roaming d/wh is a bit tricky and proved sub par when put toe to toe with the other roaming metas. With wh’s skills being mostly limited to the space in immediate proximity to the player, it lacks a gap closer to hit those pesky ranged dps’ers. And as such, I struggled against those classes which run dps range specs (i.e. d/p thieves, lb rangers, condi *warrs with sb, etc); however, I will say the builds excelled at bringing down toons that relied on melee specs as a compliment to their range attacks or those toons that ran all melee specs (i.e. trapper rangers and thieves, medi guards with gs, revenants running shiro s/s, reaper GS, etc.). This is, and has been pointed out numerous times, due to the lack of a gap closer/long range cc that offhand dagger and focus respectively supply an elementalist. So, I shall move on to what I believe are some of the biggest flaws in regards to roaming.
1. Warhorn skills cast too slow and disrupt standard ele gameplay. Give some warhorn abilities lingering effects, such as pulse-applied conditions if they are to remain slow. Warhorn skills are slow and a melee ele does not cope with slow fire skills well at all.
2. D/wh needs to be able to take out a target at range. With no gap closer, coupled with that impossible-to-fire-off shorting out lightbulb skill in air attunement as the only ranged option (fyi, I have lost many fights due to that skill not firing off… I despise Lightning Orb), there is no far reaching skill that allows d/wh to reach those foes.

I have read many posts on possible changes for this spec, however at this time I am at a loss to contribute. Warhorn has such potential with it’s close range cc’s, however, there must be a couple skills that aid an ele. I will truly keep thinking on this.

-Fresh Air Dagger/Focus: Oh my! Overloading an attunement every 6-7 seconds was one of the most fun experiences I have had in this game while roaming. The cc’s of focus and defensive skills made it the perfect combo with trapping your foes in that lightning field, all the while being able to take a beating yourself. The learning curve was a bit heavy and I had to always keep an eye on off attunement cd’s (water, fire, earth skills and attunement swap cd’s as well), but man, once I learned how to avoid cleave while channeling the overload I was able to cleave foes left and right.

All said, the build tended to suffer dearly at times against burst/shatter mesmer and condi mesmers, where, if the mes would interrupt the channel for Overload Air, you had to play that all too familiar game of erase the mesmer clones to get the real one while avoiding three daze mantras and stealth uptime… sigh… (sorry for whining heh, moving on:) I found myself not missing the Arcane trait line. For what I experienced this beta weekend, the tempest traits have a batting chance against the Fire or Air/cantrip Water/Arcane meta. However, for the sake of condi cleansing, cantrip Water was a must, as Earth Diamond Skin was too much of a bet on situational circumstances where there rarely wasn’t a 1vX situation that did not have a, say, one running a condi spec and another running a pwr spec.

Tempest has great potential. I expect by the time I finish my Howler (which’ll be a while since all I do is duel and roam) that Tempest and warhorn will be in a good place.

I hope sharing my experience aids in furthering the Tempest discussion, all the best guys

~Bati

Just want to highlight this thread about the water-attunement overload both because it’s clever and because there’s some good suggestions there I hope aren’t overlooked just because they set up a more focused space to look into options for the Tempest.

Nike.2631:

Just want to highlight this thread about the water-attunement overload both because it’s clever and because there’s some good suggestions there I hope aren’t overlooked just because they set up a more focused space to look into options for the Tempest.

Sen… senpai noticed me! blush

:^) in truth though, i really do hope water attunement overload does get some lingering storm and waterfield to bring it into thematic synch with the other overloads.

The lingering storms are thematically the only storm calling element to the tempest so i feel they should be a big hilight feature.

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

I would rather have a light field or anything else that is NEW and not just a different way of doing the same thing.

I still think my idea of making the water overload make enemies float in a storm while you yourself are floating in a water bubble makes total sense. Why should the Mesmer have access to 2 new conditions and a new boons and the Elementalist to nothing new?

Xillllix.3485:

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

I would rather have a light field or anything else that is NEW and not just a different way of doing the same thing.

I still think my idea of making the water overload make enemies float in a storm while you yourself are floating in a water bubble makes total sense. Why should the Mesmer have access to 2 new conditions and a new boons and the Elementalist to nothing new?

Light field dose not fit ele or tempest water field would be nice though but i think there a lot of it as is how about a frost field. Make water overloade a mobile frost field.
Hard cc dose not fit water atument ideal well your better for an soft cc or some type of support effect on-top of reg/condition removal.

Jski.6180:

Xillllix.3485:

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

I would rather have a light field or anything else that is NEW and not just a different way of doing the same thing.

I still think my idea of making the water overload make enemies float in a storm while you yourself are floating in a water bubble makes total sense. Why should the Mesmer have access to 2 new conditions and a new boons and the Elementalist to nothing new?

Light field dose not fit ele or tempest water field would be nice though but i think there a lot of it as is how about a frost field. Make water overloade a mobile frost field.
Hard cc dose not fit water atument ideal well your better for an soft cc or some type of support effect on-top of reg/condition removal.

Frost fields are useless in PvE due to breakbars, so no thanks.

Water field would be a lot better.

Jski.6180:

Xillllix.3485:

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

I would rather have a light field or anything else that is NEW and not just a different way of doing the same thing.

I still think my idea of making the water overload make enemies float in a storm while you yourself are floating in a water bubble makes total sense. Why should the Mesmer have access to 2 new conditions and a new boons and the Elementalist to nothing new?

Light field dose not fit ele or tempest water field would be nice though but i think there a lot of it as is how about a frost field. Make water overloade a mobile frost field.
Hard cc dose not fit water atument ideal well your better for an soft cc or some type of support effect on-top of reg/condition removal.

Have the bubble pop into a lingering Rainbow (light field) can definitely make sense. Hmm, but what effects could a rainbow cause? Hmmm…

Leo G.4501:

Jski.6180:

Xillllix.3485:

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed, Overload Water should be a mobile Water field while channeling, and should leave behind a geyser/healing spring type thing that pulses the Overload’s effects and is also a Water field.

If a mobile Water field is deemed too OP then maybe a mobile Ice field. We only have one on Frozen Ground, come on. :p

I would rather have a light field or anything else that is NEW and not just a different way of doing the same thing.

I still think my idea of making the water overload make enemies float in a storm while you yourself are floating in a water bubble makes total sense. Why should the Mesmer have access to 2 new conditions and a new boons and the Elementalist to nothing new?

Light field dose not fit ele or tempest water field would be nice though but i think there a lot of it as is how about a frost field. Make water overloade a mobile frost field.
Hard cc dose not fit water atument ideal well your better for an soft cc or some type of support effect on-top of reg/condition removal.

Have the bubble pop into a lingering Rainbow (light field) can definitely make sense. Hmm, but what effects could a rainbow cause? Hmmm…

Why would you want a light field? Its way too easy to get them from gurds why not ask for a much harder to get field in frost field that fits the water line that has a much stronger soft cc effect?

I’m going to point out that a frost field probably meshes better with Runes of the Elementalist. And until there are Runes of the Tempest, I’d like for those to be a desirable choice .

The only telling feedback I can provide that hasn’t already been mentioned is that myself and every ele main I know is going to be switching classes after the xpac. I have mained ele since beta through endless nerf/buff cycles without skipping a beat, but between the thoughtless Ele changes last patch and how much garbage tempest is, neither I nor anyone else can be blamed for changing classes.

cillard.3986:

The only telling feedback I can provide that hasn’t already been mentioned is that myself and every ele main I know is going to be switching classes after the xpac. I have mained ele since beta through endless nerf/buff cycles without skipping a beat, but between the thoughtless Ele changes last patch and how much garbage tempest is, neither I nor anyone else can be blamed for changing classes.

Still lack logic “every ele main i know is going to switching classes” even though if they played tempest they effectually still switching classes. Tempest being good or not should have nothing to do with ppl playing ele or not. What it saying is ppl simply want something new and all the base classes are not getting any thing new from HoT but all the elite spec are. Having NEW for just having new is kind of pointless and if ppl truly liked ele they will come back after the new factor of the elite spec fall off.

I still kind of wish they would have given one of the minor traits some kind of modifier like:

“Your mainhand weapon abilities take half as long to recharge(or)cast, but are half as effective”

Being in one attunement for so long just feels like mashing auto attack far too often, which is the single biggest thing I hate in MMOs.

Jski.6180:

Tempest being good or not should have nothing to do with ppl playing ele or not.

First, I said it is garbage. It isn’t garbage just because it sucks, it is garbage because the very premise behind tempest goes against the grain of how an ele is actually played. It is also garbage because it is not fun to play in WvW or sPvP.

Sorry, but if I class isn’t fun to play, has no role it excels in, is mechanically unsound, and under performs ….people are going to move on to something else. The fact is, they will be unless something changes.

Can we also look at making Churning Earth like Dragon’s Tooth? It’s an ability entirely unused in PvE since the channel time is so large for the damage done that it’s a DPS loss over autoattacking.

Make Churning Earth fire and forget like Dragon’s Tooth.

Reduce the cd of Fire grab as well….at least in PvE it does even less damage than a 100 blades yet it has around six times the cooldown.

My $0,02:. I actually like the Tempest and I will probably be using it. The biggest thing that’s troubling me with it is the presentation – overload animations are, frankly, just terrible. They are either reused hero point channel animations (water and air), a subpar overused spinning animation (warrior, thief) or the worst offender of them all – earth overload /point emote.

What should have been a cool surfing stance on an avalanche turned out to be a /point emote on a tall, narrow, barely animated rock that glides over terrain.

Water overload also definitely needs a water dagger #5 blast animation at the end of the channel so we actually see the big heal at the end.

You guys do realize that sitting in an attunement is very possible when using a conjured weapon? Though, the only conjure that is worth mentionning is Earth Shield at the moment in sPvP.

Yikes, there are a lot of ignorant statements in this thread. I’m hoping that Karl doesn’t take suggestions from people who don’t understand the meta across all three major game modes.

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Yikes, there are a lot of ignorant statements in this thread. I’m hoping that Karl doesn’t take suggestions from people who don’t understand the meta across all three major game modes.

Well that’s so vague as to be utterly meaningless.

Nike.2631:

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Yikes, there are a lot of ignorant statements in this thread. I’m hoping that Karl doesn’t take suggestions from people who don’t understand the meta across all three major game modes.

Well that’s so vague as to be utterly meaningless.

Agreed. Sometimes devs just need random ideas, sometimes we hit the spot, sometimes we don’t… at least it’s some sort of feedback. Better than none.