Guild Wars 2

Jski.6180:

Adding stab to overloads is a big deal for both the ele and tempest class due to how little is lost from ele becoming a tempest.

Most specs lose nothing.

Since the first preview we lost boon-hate, boon-share and AoE stun-breaking. Is there anything else tempest can lose before the launch?

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Adding stab to overloads is a big deal for both the ele and tempest class due to how little is lost from ele becoming a tempest.

Most specs lose nothing.

Since the first preview we lost boon-hate, boon-share and AoE stun-breaking. Is there anything else tempest can lose before the launch?

Most elite spec lose there f1-f5 skill for another set on-top of a line. Ele to tempest lose no f1-f5 skill but gets a new set of f1-f5 added all though they lose a line but now with stab on overloads the tempest line has become better then say earth line. It may be better then arcain line if you have water tempest (dmg line) going.

All though things you listed you (in your view) debunked in other post with me on the other side so i am not sure why your bringing them up? It sounds like boon share is going to be more of a list so “for now” its just might but odds are they are going to add more boons to that but the op effect of it of quickness and resistances will not cray over. Tempest still has aoe stun-breaking from its eye of the storm all be it less then before. It never had boon hate it had boon removable that was in the preview description all though if you watch the video it never removed any boons.

Jski.6180:

> Most
> 2 out of 7 revealed

Decide on which is which.

Seriously, in general Tempest is just not good enough for an expansion pack. The only good change is the stability and the “improved” rebound that still has nothing to do with tempest. Overloads remains a badly implemented mechanic, and the nerfs just killed the only new thing Tempest could do: boon share. Overloads could only work if they released a massive blast at the end in the leagues of Churning earth. But overall it’s all too slow. Make the overloads last 2 seconds (just give them quickness and make them pulse twice per second with a big 5k aoe burst at the end for fire) and the pre-cast 3 seconds. Then add a global cooldown on overloads to balance it out.

Then all the other nerfs to a weapon that’s already not that good: Lightning orb could have a 5 second cooldown and it still wouldn’t be OP because it’s so weak, slow and doesn’t even work vertically. How can this ever be fun to play when every skills is slow and overloads are that clunky (cant even dodge or change attunements while overloading and it does less damage than a lava font). There is no interesting combo to pull off (in opposition to the Dare Devil or Chronomancer, or Reaper and Revenant for example), all the skills are separate entities so Tempest never comes together as an unified concept.

You guys at Anet need to get a team of people to finishTempest. As it is right now the day HoT comes out I’m never touching my elementalist again and I’m switching class.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Adding stab to overloads is a big deal for both the ele and tempest class due to how little is lost from ele becoming a tempest.

Most specs lose nothing.

Since the first preview we lost boon-hate, boon-share and AoE stun-breaking. Is there anything else tempest can lose before the launch?

The TTH interview for the tempest reveal said we’d get super speed while overloading, and that was replaced with swiftness in the preview stream and official blogpost.

It really is 1 step forward, 2 steps backward with each iteration of tempest.

Xillllix.3485:

You guys at Anet need to get a team of people to finishTempest. As it is right now the day HoT comes out I’m never touching my elementalist again and I’m switching class.

Revenant?

rotten.9753:

Xillllix.3485:

You guys at Anet need to get a team of people to finishTempest. As it is right now the day HoT comes out I’m never touching my elementalist again and I’m switching class.

Revenant?

Quite possibly yes, it has all possibilities: support, damage, range, condi and range. And the elite skills are cool.

Xillllix.3485:

rotten.9753:

Xillllix.3485:

You guys at Anet need to get a team of people to finishTempest. As it is right now the day HoT comes out I’m never touching my elementalist again and I’m switching class.

Revenant?

Quite possibly yes, it has all possibilities: support, damage, range, condi and range. And the elite skills are cool.

I was about to jump on the revenant bandwagon myself but the Mallyx overnerf kind of ruins the build I had used, meanwhile the bursts power builds don’t really excite me as much. If I can get a viable Jalis based bruiser build I’d use it for sure, but that will be tough to build.

Meanwhile reaper is a given since it’s a natural upgrade to my current pvp main. I’ll also play chronomancer a lot since the shield and wells look really strong now. Forge is the wildcard, that I’m very excited to learn about since I love engi, I just hate its current trait system.

Valento.9852:

I guess some people complaining about Overload Fire damage nerf doesn’t get that overloads shouldn’t necessarily rival direct damage base ele already has. Think it through…

I believe YOU should think it through. If the Fire Overload, WHICH ONLY DOES DAMAGE, does not even match normal damage, then it is USELESS.

Jski.6180:

light.2597:

srsly that all ? .. just look at the other specialization changes then talk! .. let Roy work in tempest ! ..

Adding stab to overloads is a big deal for both the ele and tempest class due to how little is lost from ele becoming a tempest.

There is a lot lost. Longer attunements and the loss of a superior trait line.

Do you know what would be a good buff to Imbued Melodies?

New Imbued Melodies:
Change heat sync completely and copy the effect to the trait I mentioned above with a little twist.

• Warhorn Fire Skills spreads Fury, Might and Retalliation boons to nearby allies.
• Warhorn Air Skills spreads Swiftness, Quickness and Vigor to nearby allies.
• Warhorn Water Skills spreads Regeneration, Quickness and Resistance to nearby allies.
• Warhorn Earth Skills spreads Protection, Stability and Aegis to nearby allies.

Every element has an ICD of 15 secs.

The perfect warhorn trait for you.

Love the stability on overloading (I guess it’ll be 1 stack for 4 seconds?)

I think it was way too easy to get interrupted. Now, if you have good positioning, the other team might have to actively play together and w8 with their interrupts for the overloads, which is a good thing.

I still think it should be baseline though, since overloading is completely useless without it and I cannot imagine sm1 not taking it that actually thinks about using those overloads.

Overload Earth: Cast time reduced from 5 seconds to 4. Bleeding has been added to the pulsing effect, one application of 6 seconds per pulse. The effects of this ability now trigger when the ability starts, instead of waiting one second before it applies cripple and protection. This ability no longer has a break bar, but instead applies 3 stacks of stability for 4 seconds when it begins.

I really like this change. Not only do we gain 3 stacks of stab but we get bleeding on top of it.

Overload Fire: Reduced cast time to 4 seconds. note: We’ll be reducing the damage of this overload, as it’s got too much in its current state. I don’t have the numbers on this right now, but will update when I get a chance.

Just keep the burning application for us condi builds and it’s all good

Overload Air: The damage for this skill now activates at 0.5 seconds, rather than at 1 second. Increased duration of the static area by 1 second. Increased the radius of the static area from 240 to 360. Reduced cast time 4.75 seconds to 4 seconds.

Much needed increase in radius. Like it

Dust Storm: Removed vulnerability application. This ability now applies two stacks of bleeding for 10 seconds on each pulse.

Would love to have both the vuln and bleeds! Otherwise I like this change as it adds more fuel to condi builds and ele’s need help in the bleeding department.

note: Heat Sync is currently over-performing in its ability to spread all boons to allies. We’ll be looking to narrow down the boons it can spread, to just the Might boon, in order to keep its purpose more clear.

I agree with others in that might is already to readily available from multiple builds/classes. This also doesn’t synergize well with support builds. I would recommend having the list be might, protection, fury and swiftness.

Rebound: This ability now applies an effect to nearby allies for 5 seconds. If the ally would take a lethal blow, they are healed instead of going into the downed state. If this effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement. Reduced cast time from 3/4 second to 1/4 second. note: It heals for about 2000 at level 80 and heals additionally based on 1.5x your healing power.

I love it! Finally an elite for the ele that can be useful if timed correctly. Was getting tired of the bland ele elites and this new iteration of Rebound has me excited.

Traits
note: We’d like to add something more to Earthen Proxy at some point if it remains based on protection. It’s not going to go all that great if EP affects allies, because it’s hard to know when your own protection is on them and not your ally Guardian standing next to you. This trait is more likely to remain a bit selfish, or change to something else.

Yes please. How about a cd reduction on shouts?

Elemental Bastion: Fixed an issue where shouts would cause this trait to double-heal. Increased base healing per level by 50%. Increased healing contribution by 50%. Reduced the base heal from 40 to 10.

I like this a lot. Anything to beef up support builds is a good thing.

Harmonious Conduit: This trait has been re-worked. Upon activating an overload, gain stability for 4 seconds. If the overload is successfully completed, gain 10% damage for 5 seconds.

Greatly needed and will be a must in competitive environments.

Imbued melodies: This trait has been re-worked. While wielding a warhorn, your boon duration is increased by 20%. Use sand squall when you are struck while below the 90% health threshold.

So we lose WH cd reduction? I don’t mind the change but it would be nice to get the WH cd reduction added in somewhere. The WH needs buffs not nerfs.

What about Unstable Conduit? Having the aura applied at the end of an Overload makes using this trait with any form of tactical precision darn near impossible. The aura needs to be applied at beginning of the Overloads or most of the time the aura’s usefulness will be wasted. Especially with regards to magnetic aura.

Eye of the Storm needs a shocking aura.

Flash Freeze needs more to it. An increase in chill duration or a blast finisher.

Tidal Surge feels clunky and as with my issue with Unstable Conduit using the knockback with any tactical precision is negated with it coming at the end.

Water Globe: It would be nice to slow the water field down a notch. I had trouble keeping up with it a few times due to terrain or a drop in fps. Otherwise I really like it.

All-in-all I like most of these changes and my condi/support Tempest is in a happier place now. I look forward to testing these changes out in BWE3! Keep up the good work Karl.

Axialbloom.8109:

Valento.9852:

I guess some people complaining about Overload Fire damage nerf doesn’t get that overloads shouldn’t necessarily rival direct damage base ele already has. Think it through…

I believe YOU should think it through. If the Fire Overload, WHICH ONLY DOES DAMAGE, does not even match normal damage, then it is USELESS.

Do not underestimate the burn application and whirl finisher. If used correctly Fire Overload is still pretty strong.

Karl McLain.5604:

Harmonious Conduit: This trait has been re-worked. Upon activating an overload, gain stability for 4 seconds. If the overload is successfully completed, gain 10% damage for 5 seconds.

Thanks for your continued constructive feedback.

-Karl

Two quick suggestions.

• Can Harmonious Conduit (or at least the stability) be moved to the Master-tier minor trait? Not getting knocked on your butt mid-overload channel is so essential this Trait is going to be viewed as a “trait tax” just to play a Tempest. If it stays, can we get the after effect changed to “gain 10% damage and outgoing heals for 5 seconds” so its appealing for support as well as DPS?

• Consider a flat +10% bonus to all weapon skills cooldowns as part of Singularity. If we’re gonna stick to one attunement to charge overload, it would be nice if we spent a little less time looking at a tray full of skills on cooldown wishing we could swap attunements.

Wolfric.9380:

I am glad that its only 1 Stack of stability. Having a stable overload on demand would be just bad. The overloads are against ele mechanic. They need a risk/reward mechanics. You can argue the whole overloads were a bad idea, but to fit them in to much stability will break them in the oposite way as no stab does.

No. Its still to low. There is already a huge downside to overloads and that’s the opportunity cost.

There is the opportunity cost of using them and being interrupted at 3.5 seconds into the cast or the opportunity cost of using them and being forced to dodge, but there is also the opportunity cost of being forced to stay in one attunement and do sub-par DPS/play just to be able to access the overload in the first place.

For most ele weapons with the exception of dagger and staff/fire the auto attacks suck. (Here’s looking at you scepter.)

No Magnetic Aura?

it scales with healing power, 1.5 that’s true but 2k base heal + 750 ( from 1500 healing power) won’t make a huge differnce. i don’t expect it to heal as much as AED but at least 5k.

true healer builds are unviable in pvp because of the ridiculous amount of hp you get with a cleric amulet on a light armour class. 11600 hp vs burn guard or mesmer is suicidal, even if you cleanse the burn, you usually get at least 1 tick due to human reaction time.

I wasn’t particularly thinking about PvP, I rarely am, but it does sound like the scaling could be better for Healer WvW/PvE builds.

I guess some people complaining about Overload Fire damage nerf doesn’t get that overloads shouldn’t necessarily rival direct damage base ele already has. Think it through…

If the Overload doesn’t rival the direct damage then what’s the point of using them? Given how much Overloads limit your basic options, it’s safe to say that the ones that focus on damage should be around 125% to 150% the damage you could deal in that spec over the same period of time, possibly much more.

Basically, an Overload = Spamming your attacks for 4 seconds – you can’t start until you’ve been attuned for 5s – you have to channel for 4 seconds for full effect – you can’t dodge during channel – it puts the attunement on long CD when it’s done. Now all that’s well and good, so long as the power of Overload itself is strong enough that it makes up for all those minuses. Even in it’s previous state, Fire wasn’t there and the other three weren’t even close, and now they seem to be pulling away from even that.

For most ele weapons with the exception of dagger and staff/fire the auto attacks suck. (Here’s looking at you scepter.)

Lol, “for most ele weapons, aside from most Ele weapons. . .”

Ohoni.6057:

damage should be around 125% to 150% the damage you could deal in that spec over the same period of time

Fire overload with a 4 second cast time is already there. In fact it’s probably at 200% or more.

Overloads – Normalization is nice, I guess.

Earth – Some bleeds will help it be a bit more interesting, sure. Always thought it should have bleed on it. A decent buff.

Water – Seems basically unchanged outside of the normalization, though I suppose the insta-heal may come in handy.

Fire – You’re… kidding, right? I’m one of the few who thought the damage was alright in previous iterations, with most feeling it to be underwhelming… and you’re nerfing it? Right. Can we at least get a range increase or something in return, if it really “needs” to hit? Or a Whirl finisher on the tornado left behind after the overload is finished?

Air – The increase of a whopping 1 whole second to the lightning field is… nice, but it still needs a lot more duration IMO. Still think the field needs to last at least as long as the cast time, probably longer. Range increase is nice and makes more sense that way. Cast time reduction is nice. Some decent changes, though not sure if it’ll quite be “there” yet even now.

Warhorn – I don’t even know what to say. OK, so you’re hitting Warhorn’s best and most unique skill with the equivalent of a nuclear nerf-bomb. Now, I’ll admit that it was perhaps a bit too strong, but this is just WAY overdoing it. One boon? A boon that Elementalist already passes out in AoE capacity like candy at Halloween? Great, so now the skill is just redundant filler, rather than giving Tempest a way to distribute boons it can’t normally. And that’s supposed to… INCREASE the utility warhorn provides, how exactly? Why not just limit it to certain boons or make it so that you can only pass a certain number of boons, instead of just completely gutting the skill?

And in return, Warhorn is getting lots of other buffs to other skills, right? I mean, it has to be, it was already in a questionable place to begin with, and we’re supposedly increasing its utility. No? One ability is getting vuln changed to bleed (less utility again), which I’m actually alright with I suppose since WH could use a bit more condition support and it makes more sense thematically. And one ability is getting a fix. That’s it. Really? No buffs to Air 4? Air 5? Water 5? Fire 5? Heck, for that matter what happened to the proposed Magnetic Aura on Earth 4, I thought you realized you wanted an aura on every offhand and were fixing Warhorn’s lack thereof.

I’ve tried to remain positive throughout the Tempest reveals, and I actually LIKED warhorn as a concept. But even my optimism can only go so far. This is just laughable.

Rebound – Good change. Much more interesting and useful now. I am curious what the cooldown is going to be now though.

Elemental Bastion – Healing contribution? Maybe I’m just outdated on the game terms, but what the heck does that even mean? You mean scaling with Healing Power? If so… ok. Seems like a decent change.

Harmonious Conduit – Nice changes. The 20% cooldown reduction on its own was lackluster for sure, and the new trait is pretty great all-around. Damage boost is a neat idea to encourage and reward Overloads, and of course the stability is handy. Don’t know why the cooldown reduction was dropped completely, though. Would like to see it added back somewhere, perhaps onto Lucid Singularity if putting it on Harmonious Conduit would oversaturate the skill too much. As for the trait being so good that it becomes “required”… that is perhaps a concern, but I do think just giving out stability on overloads for free would be a bit too much, so I’m fine with it.

Imbued Melodies – Not sure warhorn on its own has access to enough boons for this to matter, but I suppose overloads and utilities can shore up that problem, so alright. Free Sand Squall is pretty awesome as long as it doesn’t interrupt other skills (I hated the Revenant trait that automatically casted the shield when hit below a health threshold because it did that).

Overall, there’s some pretty nice changes in there. But the warhorn changes and complete lack of Shout buffs are pretty disappointing, and leave me feeling pretty bummed overall despite the good.

Feedback
Much of the concerns from the previous Beta Weekends still persist…the lack of direction with traits is absolutely disgusting and embarrassing to say the least. We’ve had three years to build the “groundwork” for moving forward and building a system to “make changes like these a lot easier”, yet we can’t even creatively come up with a somewhat cohesive set of Traits for the Elementalist. The skill and stab changes seem like a baby step in the right direction…but there’s still a lack of consistency, polish and diversity.

1) Latent Stamina: Why does this trait still exisit in its current form? This trait has absolutely nothing to do with the Tempest and feels more suited for Water Magic.

2) Earthen Proxy: You’re absolutely right in assuming that this trait is difficult to track in a party. Although your initial blurb on keeping this trait as a selfish trait is baffling. The inclusion of a selfish trait in a specialization that is all about shouting, granting auras, and overloading attunements to control, grant boons, and support is confusing and out of place.

3) Harmonious Conduit: Is this only one stack of stability?

4) Imbued Melodies: Basically a Guardian’s Honorable Staff…only worse and a Grandmaster. Why were the stun breaking properties of the Warhorn removed? Also to delve deeper into the current iteration, boon duration would have somewhat made sense with the old Heat Sync. Since that is getting changed to only share Might stacks however (one of the few good changes), 20% boon duration makes no sense…especially as a Grandmaster. Even though I was probably never going to try the Warhorn, this change just further solidified my decision to never go Warhorn…ever.

Trait Improvements
This is an amended copied and pasted version from my previous post in the BWE2 Feedback Thread…incorporating some of the better changes from above into the different traits. While this is not a definitive demand for traits, we REALLY need to build clear specialization paths for the Tempest because as it stands, the traits are a jumbled mess. Below are three routes you could possibly take (from BWE2 traits with some incorporated BWE3 changes– Added healing in Elemental Bastion, 10% damage bonus from Harmonious Conduit into Lucid Singularity, and Stability Charges from Harmonious Conduit into Earthen Proxy).

1. The Stun Breaker
-focuses on using shouts and warhorn abilities to remove stuns from itself and allies

a) Gale Song:
Current: Trigger “Eye of the Storm!” when a foe attempts to control you by stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch (CD: 45 seconds).
Changes: No change needed, good as is!

b) Earthen Proxy
Current: Damage is further reduced when you are under the effects of protection by 20%.
Changes: Breaking a stun for an ally grants that ally 2 stacks of stability for 3 seconds (You count as an ally).
Reasoning: Earthen proxy was too boring of a trait and provided incredibly little benefit (a mere 7% extra damage reduction) to even be noticeable in combat…ever. With this change, the ele can grant some stability to allies (a sore spot for this class). However, stability application is much harder than some of the other supports as the tempest will have to wait AFTER a stun has landed in order to reap the benefits from this trait. So it’ll play a lot differently in the sense that the Tempest needs to be reactive in breaking stuns for allies instead of being proactive with accumulating stab stacks before an initiation.

c) Imbued Melodies
Current: Upon casting, warhorn abilities break stun for allies in a 600 radius around you (ICD: 10 sec).
Changes: No change needed, good as is (and will have a lot more synergy with the above Earthen Proxy)

2. The Auramancer
-focuses on the provision and bolstering of auras

a) Unstable Conduit
Current: Overloading an attunement grants an aura based on the element you’re attuned to when the ability is completed.
Change: No change needed, good as is!

b) Tempestuous Aria
Current: Allies affected by your shouts gain might. Enemies are affected by weakness.
Change: Add a “Reduces the cooldown of shouts by 20%” clause in there.
Reasoning: Pretty self explanatory; there needs to be a CD reduction trait associated with the new utility.

c) Elemental Bastion
Current: Auras you apply heal allies. Apply a frost aura to yourself and nearby allies when struck while below the health threshold.
Change: Increase the base healing and scaling healing. Add “Auras last 20% longer” clause.
Reasoning: To make it more impactful for non healing power builds and to incentivize healing power users to grab this trait.

The Overloader
-focuses on supporting allies through the constant overloading of attunements while increasing the risk/reward of said overloads

a) Latent Stamina
Current: Apply vigor in a radius when attuning to water. Granting vigor to allies also restores a portion of endurance.
Change: Nearby allies gain 25 endurance when you successfully overload an attunement (ie, if you complete the channel of the overload).
Reasoning: The old iteration felt incredibly out of place and weak. This way, we still maintain the original intent (if you want to call it that) of the original trait while blending it into the tempest’s unique mechanic.

b) Harmonious Conduit
Current: Recharge from overloading an attunement is reduced.
Change: Overloads recharge faster every time you take damage while overloading (Recharge reduction per instance of damage taken: 3%); 16 second cooldown on Overloads now made baseline.
Reasoning: An elementalist should be rewarded if his positioning and timing is correct when overloading his attunements. This vastly increases the risk vs reward for tempest and replaces an otherwise bland trait with a unique cooldown reducing mechanic to motivate elementalists to overload their attunements. Note that at 3%, the overload for a particular attunement would go down by ~0.5 second per source of damage taken. This really forces Tempests to make an important decision…should I go in harms way to reduce the cooldown of my overload by a vast amount but put myself at risk of being interrupted/taking heavy damage or stay safer but incur a higher cooldown?

c) Lucid Singularity
Current: Remove and gain massive resistance to movement-impeding conditions while overloading your attunements.
Change: You and nearby allies gain a boon every second based on the current attunement that you are overloading with a longer lasting boon at the end of a successful overload. Additionally, gain a 10% damage bonus for 5 seconds after successfully overloading an attunement.
Fire: 1 second of Fury per second; 5 seconds of Fury, and 5 stacks of Might for 5 seconds after a successful Overload Fire
Water: 1 second of Vigor per second; 3 seconds of Vigor after a successful Overload Water (retaining the old iteration of Latent Stamina)
Air: 1 second of Super Speed per second; 2 seconds of Super Speed after a successful Overload Air
Earth: 1 second of Resistance per second; 2 seconds of Resistance after a successful Overload Earth (retaining the old iteration of Lucid Singularity)
Reasoning: In a specialization that’s supposed to be all about supporting allies, this grandmaster felt incredibly lackluster and clunky. Changing it to add boons for allies gives it more synergy with Latent Stamina and Harmonious Conduit.

Jekkt.6045:

those changes won’t do anything meaningful for tempest

1 stack stability on overloads? better than nothing i guess. still useless in teamfights. pulsing stability for 2 stacks per second would be acceptable.\

What kind of world do you live in? You’re saying that Overloads should be never interruptable unless someone puts 3 entire ccs on you in the same second. You want karl to give you waht you want, but all you want is the most overpowered class in the world. You’re not fine with Marauder FA Tempest 100-0’ing Marauder Rangers with a single Air Overload, no you expect Air Overload to be 15,000 range 70k hits every second for 500 seconds with 200 stacks of stability. You don’t want a balanced class, you just want a class that can faceroll everybody without you trying on a d/d cele build. You expect to do incredible damage on a build not meant to do damage and then you cry when you don’t get what you specifically want. Karl, the last thing you should do is listen to this guy who expects the most broken thing ever (and I bet even if you give it to him he’ll demand it to be baseline). There’s a reason that S/W Tempests have access to some of the most blinds in the game. If you’re not using it, that’s you messing up. Go learn to play the class before you ask for Anet to hold your hand and make it as easy as d/d cele ele. Try a glass build and actually see the damage it can do before you complain that it doesn’t do the damage of a glass build thief. If you can’t survive in the glass build, GOOD. That’s what’s supposed to happen, not infinite sustain like d/d cele ele has right now.

Stop using cele dd being overpowered as a justification for tempest being useless. They’re separate issues.

Bandit.8279:

Axialbloom.8109:

Valento.9852:

I guess some people complaining about Overload Fire damage nerf doesn’t get that overloads shouldn’t necessarily rival direct damage base ele already has. Think it through…

I believe YOU should think it through. If the Fire Overload, WHICH ONLY DOES DAMAGE, does not even match normal damage, then it is USELESS.

Do not underestimate the burn application and whirl finisher. If used correctly Fire Overload is still pretty strong.

Yes, it should be a condition build. But he probably nerfed the burn as well, which completely kills it.

shocked at the heavy nerfs to a poorly received and generally weak elite spec.

a high dmg fire overload is vital for this spec to even be used in pve.
removed our overload CD 20% reduction?
losing boon share on heatsync is brutal enough…the other nerfs were unnecessary. why would i use this offhand at all?

outside of putting stability on a trait (which should be baseline anyway), this is incredibly disappointing.

The good:

+ More bleeding around
+ Earth overload seems better, water probably is still fine (fire mmmhh we will see)
+ Rebound seems like a decent elite, and thats light years from what it was before

The Bad:

- 1 stack of Stability not as a minor (I really really would recommend a dev to play in pvp without stability 10 games with random people and make % of times when he can finish an overload making it usefull. Heck do it even with 1 stack of stability to compare. If its is less than 50% even while doing your best its useless.)
- Fire and Air overloads are still the same: low range damage dealers, but probably this is something that the devs decided so it wont change
- Overnerf to HeatSinc: It was too powerful yes, but only might sharing? One of the few unique skills that we had as elite totally destroyed? And what about other classes that grant tons of boons? Please, reconsider and balance it well: limiting amount of boons or banning some.
- Shouts are perfect? No single changes? What about other strange traits like “latent stamina”? No more auramancer love?

Axialbloom.8109:

Jski.6180:

light.2597:

srsly that all ? .. just look at the other specialization changes then talk! .. let Roy work in tempest ! ..

Adding stab to overloads is a big deal for both the ele and tempest class due to how little is lost from ele becoming a tempest.

There is a lot lost. Longer attunements and the loss of a superior trait line.

That not realty more lost by other classes. The talk on lost is going from ele to a tempest not so much the use of overload (you could make that argument but if your better off not using the overload at the time then you do not need to use it but the abitly to chose to use it or not is better then not having the chose in the first places. Now that stab is in play it becomes a major tool for the ele class to get out of a lot of bad placese that made it week to other builds.)

Just my 2 cents about the fire and air overloads. Don’t you want tempest to be a frontliner? Then why do you make the after cast effects of fire and air overloads stationary. You can easily make them to instant damage effects depending on how successful your channel was.

Revamped Fire & Air Overload End Effects

Fire Overload: If the channeling is successful, release the fiery tornado’s power in a spiral shape. Each curved( 6 total ) spiral part deals damge up to 3 enemies depending on the amount of burn stack on them.
The enemies will have more burn stacks on them if you can stay on them while overloading thus resulting in more damage.

Air Overload: Similarly, at the end of a successful channel, remove the static cloud and let it dissipate dealing arcing lightning strikes to nearby enemies. Strikes up to 3 nearby enemies. Each of these strikes can jump up to 3 nearby enemies as long as the first target is affected by vulnerability.
Just like in air overload, if you have managed to inflict vulnerability while overloading, the end effect will be more useful.

What do you think about it guys?

That new trait which gives stability is what we wished for, but it definitely mustn’t replace CDR for overload.

Anyway some of these changes are steps in good direction.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hello,
With another round of beta weekends complete, here’s where we’re going for the next beta:

Overloading:
We’ll be normalizing the casting time of each overload to four seconds. This way, you’ve got a guaranteed amount of time to overload before the pay-out. We’ll be looking at improving the pay-out for each overload ability.
…
Thanks for your continued constructive feedback.

-Karl

Karl, would you consider making triggering/starting the channel for all Overloads a stunbreak?

It would make kind of interesting counterplay for folks to think they have you nailed down with CC and you just EXPLODE your way out of it . Surprise!!

This sounds very intresting. It can only be used when already 5s in the element. This is a good idea.

stunbreak on overload would be a really neat, thematically fitting addition
also, it’s been said many times before, but i think that having stability on a major trait is going to make it a “required” trait. this would be much better placed into the base overload mechanic. (swiftness and protection should be put into the base overload mechanic as well, those two minor traits feel so bad)

I know the feeling of being a trait to select, but i personaly think thats good.
All announced changes look right. Well the nerf to heat sync sounds blunt… Shoul be made new.

For me, one of the biggest issues with tempest is still the traits, especially the minor traits. I’ve been thinking about ways to improve them for a while, and these are my ideas

first off, the current minor traits feel very stingy. The first minor introduces overloads, the next two complete the abilities of the overloads. it’s like if the first minor allowed us to overload fire and water, and the next two allow air and earth. it just feels wrong, like it’s one ability spread across three traits. the tempest seems to push eles to stay in an attunement for a longer time, so i think that should be the purpose of the minor traits.

Minor Trait 1: tempest gets access to warhorn, shouts and overloads, base overload functionality gives 1 stack of stability for four seconds (note that the protection and swiftness are gone!)

Minor Trait 2: this should be dedicated to rewarding you for staying in an element for a while, whether or not you overload. my idea is a stack attribute bonus for each second you stay attuned to an element. something like 10 power per second while in fire, 10 healing while in water, precision in air and toughness in earth. cap it at ten stacks, so if you stay in an attunement for 10 seconds, you’ll get a 100 point bonus to the associated element. numbers are just for example, could be higher or lower for balance

Minor trait 3: this could go a few ways. my first idea is some sort of weapon skill cooldown. a flat 20% reduction to all weapon skills would give tempest the ability to stay in 1 attunement without just sitting on auto attack. another ability could be to add bonus effects to our auras. something like, fire auras remove conditions, frost aura weakens enemies, shocking aura causes small bolts to shoot out at enemies, earth aura blocks 1 melee attack. i think either of these ideas would benefit tempest in different ways, with the aura improvement promoting the mid range support style.

Thoughts?

I still have an issue with remaining in a single Attunement.

How about rolling Hardy Conduit into Speedy Conduit, and then replacing the Grandmaster Minor trait with the following:

Tempestuous Escalation (dramatic, no? :p)
Remaining in a single Attunement grants you a stacking bonus for each second you remain in that Attunement:
Fire: +1% Damage (10% cap)
Air: +2% Critical chance (20% cap)
Water: +1% Outgoing healing affecting other allies (10% cap)
Earth: +1% Condition damage (10% cap)

The trait’s Attunement-specific bonuses end when switching Attunements, but the trait is always active. For example, when you switch to Water after being in Fire for 10 seconds, you would lose the 10% damage bonus but immediately start accumulating the 1% outgoing heal bonus.

This synergizes well with the theme of each Attunement and each Overload. Plus, the bonuses are not boons, so they can’t be abused by boon duration/boon share, nor can they be stripped.

Like it.
Tempest is against arcane ele swaping, so if thats the way decided, push the direction more or you end up with somthing half thats considered meh …

Glenstorm.4059:

I still have an issue with remaining in a single Attunement.

How about rolling Hardy Conduit onto Speedy Conduit, and then replacing the Grandmaster Minor trait with the following:

Tempestuous Escalation (dramatic, no? :p)
Remaining in a single Attunement grants you a stacking bonus for each second you remain in that Attunement:
Fire: +1% Damage (10% cap)
Air: +2% Critical chance (20% cap)
Water: +1% Outgoing healing affecting other allies (10% cap)
Earth: +1% Condition damage (10% cap)

The trait’s Attunement-specific bonuses end when switching Attunements, but the trait is always active. For example, when you switch to Water after being in Fire for 10 seconds, you would lose the 10% damage bonus but immediately start accumulating the 1% outgoing heal bonus.

This synergizes well with the theme of each Attunement and each Overload. Plus, the bonuses are not boons, so they can’t be abused by boon duration/boon share, nor can they be stripped.

One of the best idea I’ve heard so far. It would certainly help with one of the worse aspect of Tempest which is attunement camping.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

That new trait which gives stability is what we wished for, but it definitely mustn’t replace CDR for overload.

Anyway some of these changes are steps in good direction.

Yes but many are in the wrong direction, like Heat Sync which has literally been rendered useless.

Nike.2631:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hello,
With another round of beta weekends complete, here’s where we’re going for the next beta:

Overloading:
We’ll be normalizing the casting time of each overload to four seconds. This way, you’ve got a guaranteed amount of time to overload before the pay-out. We’ll be looking at improving the pay-out for each overload ability.
…
Thanks for your continued constructive feedback.

-Karl

Karl, would you consider making triggering/starting the channel for all Overloads a stunbreak?

It would make kind of interesting counterplay for folks to think they have you nailed down with CC and you just EXPLODE your way out of it . Surprise!!

Making Overloads stunbreaks is an AWESOME idea to make them worth using. This would be a great trait instead of the now-stability-giving one, with stability on Overloads REALLY needing to be a minor trait.

No the stunbreak comes instead of the protection 20%. So you have a hard decision. shouts, stunbreak or stab …… XD.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Nike.2631:

Karl, would you consider making triggering/starting the channel for all Overloads a stunbreak?

Making Overloads stunbreaks is an AWESOME idea to make them worth using. This would be a great trait instead of the now-stability-giving one, with stability on Overloads REALLY needing to be a minor trait.

Thank you . I was actually thinking it should be default functionality for Overloads rather than an either/or kind of choice. Overloads should always have that kind of ‘explosive energy’ feel to them IMO .

As someone mentioned before perhaps heat sync should focus around boons the elementalist is already good as producing or as least boons that fit tempest thematically. I also hope that the stability is at least 3 stacks. Also why not consider adding an F5 that would work the same way but not lock out attunements after overloading.

I’d just like to pop in and say I like the changes. I have a build planned for BWE3 that I am excited to try out. I will say that it does not involve warhorn.

Only thing I’m super afraid of is necros. They are going to corrupt my overload stability with signets all day

Phantaram.4816:

I’d just like to pop in and say I like the changes. I have a build planned for BWE3 that I am excited to try out. I will say that it does not involve warhorn.

Only thing I’m super afraid of is necros. They are going to corrupt my overload stability with signets all day

90% it’s D/D. :P

Karl McLain.5604:

Following up on the Stunbreak conversation: This is something we’ve talked about in the past and felt like it might just be way too strong. However, it still sounds like way too much fun to not try it out… so I’m going to change them over and we’ll see what that plays like in BWE3.
Please keep in mind that this will be a test and we may have to compensate for or remove it at some point in the future, if it’s too strong.

-Karl

Great! I don’t think it’s gonna be too strong seeing as you can still CC eles when they switch attunements (because you have to wait 5 seconds to overload) and the Overloads themselves still seem a bit underwhelming and easily interruptable. But at least it’d give them a purpose compared to just doing your regular rotation.

Karl McLain.5604:

Following up on the Stunbreak conversation: This is something we’ve talked about in the past and felt like it might just be way too strong. However, it still sounds like way too much fun to not try it out… so I’m going to change them over and we’ll see what that plays like in BWE3.
Please keep in mind that this will be a test and we may have to compensate for or remove it at some point in the future, if it’s too strong.

-Karl

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

BOOM GOES THE TEMPEST!

While undeniably strong, I’d like to think it also frees up some space in the utility bar (less need to carry stunbreaks on #6-9). Hopefully this will also help answer the complaint that the Tempest doesn’t bring anything new to the Elementalist. It brings a whole new kind of ’don’t tread on me’…

So basically no changes other than simple numerical tweaks. I thought it was blatantly obvious that the primary issues with Tempest were lack of new role, and opportunity cost of overloads, and yet you’ve completely ignored the former and only slightly addressed the latter.

Karl McLain.5604:

Following up on the Stunbreak conversation: This is something we’ve talked about in the past and felt like it might just be way too strong. However, it still sounds like way too much fun to not try it out… so I’m going to change them over and we’ll see what that plays like in BWE3.
Please keep in mind that this will be a test and we may have to compensate for or remove it at some point in the future, if it’s too strong.

-Karl

Please keep in mind that traited properly, a necro can use f1 to stunbreak every 7 seconds, not including any utility skill stunbreaks they take.

now, elementalists taking signet of air can stunbreak every 20 seconds while traited, not including tempest defense and gale song.

assuming that the stunbreak on overload cast (at start of cast) would have no icd, allowing overloads to stunbreak would be at best, every 5 seconds, IF the player uses the overload to stunbreak, and then immediately swap attunements to start the pre-cast warm up for the next overload stunbreak.

now, using an overload only for the stunbreak also means setting that stunbreak on a 25 second cooldown, assuming that the channeling is interrupted by attunement swap immediately. (an aside, i thought it was said in the Tempest PoI livestream that it was intended that attunement swapping would NOT interrupt the overload channel, but just wasn’t in the beta build yet)

at this point, starting at the first stun break, and assuming perfect timing on attunement swap. we have: SB + 5s, SB + 5s, SB + 5s, SB + 5s, and since 20s have passed, the first attunement is available again. that doesn’t include any aftercast delays. realistically, we can expect every 6 seconds a stunbreak would be available with constant attunement swapping.

this appears to give the Tempest another choice to make: finish the overload or swap attunements to continue regular weapon skill rotation. (if the attunement swap does not interrupt the overload channel, then how else will the tempest be able to interrupt the channel? cast another weapon skill? we currently can’t dodge out of the overload channel…)

that possible every 5 second use could possibly be OP with the d/d cele cantrip ele build that dominates PvP, but i think that d/d cele cantrip eles would think twice about blowing their standard rotations for a stunbreak that essentially locks them out of an element for the next 20 seconds. this would really slow down their rotation, by a lot, so the damage output would fall considerably. i think it’s a fair trade off.

also, the more available stunbreak might finally allow for other utilities besides full cantrips, but i suppose that’s another conversation.

in the current iteration of overload channels, d/d cele cantrip eles also have to consider whether to let the overload finish channeling, too, which adds another 4 seconds before swapping attunements, (since attunement swap breaks the channel) which could essentially put the stunbreaks on longer cooldowns. 4 second channel + 5 second warmup means 9 seconds before next stunbreak is available.) this might make up for some of the damage lost from their regular rotation, but again, it’s a tradeoff.

realistically, i see overload stunbreak potential on par with necro using shroud as a stun break.

i’m actually really excited about this…

Now move Stability to a minor, buff the damage radius of Fire Overload (while keeping the Burn application and duration), and we might just be able to piece together a condition build.