Guild Wars 2

I feel it in my guts, the next spec has to potential to be even worst than Tempest

We all know that another exp is coming and with another set of elite specs, now Anet will try again to please the playerbase by releasing elite specs with the most requested features and the most expected playstyle by the ele community is DPS/burst elite

And here the problems arise…I can’t see any way for the devs to design a viable DPS/burst elite while avoiding major issues

1) Ele survivability tied to its ability to heal through dmg AKA facetank dmg or die that require huge amounts of toughness and healing power, not forgetting ofc vitality

2) Lowest armour and base HP in game

3) Ability to deal huge amounts of dmg to static/immobile enemies in PvE and WvW ( in a smaller tone) when fully specced for dmg without sustain ofc

4) Great support class that has the potential to be stacked in PvP and that would create a meta nobody would like.

So how Anet will deal with these issues?

I have few speculation to talk about, something I know the devs are thinking about and that they will always take in consideration

1) water/earth combo
They’re afraid of creating another super bunker support/duellist like the old celestial d/d, something that can be stacked in PvP and can deal with anything throwed at them

2) fire/air combo
They’re afraid of creating a monster in PvE that would top the DPS charts for months…can you imagine the cries of the raid community?….we all can remember the outcries from pvers to nerf icebow so…

Taking both these elements in consideration there is a good chance that next elite spec will be a single target melee main hand elite with a trait line devoid of any sustain feature , it will have some lacklustre dmg modifiers and some uninspiring(copied) traits with
lesser effects respect to the original

We would end up with a wannabe fresh air d/d ele sort of like…basically something completely unviable anywhere you may think.

Now unless Anet solve the 4 issues described above, I see no way for them to create something viable for our next elite…something you may guess, I won’t spend any money on this time around

If any of you got way to solve these problems…well now would be a good time to talk, to grab their attention before it’s too late

I believe that the sustain of the elementalist is a non-issue for the next elite spec. Yes, base elementalists used to have decent survivability if they got defensive stats pre-HoT. However, those capabilities are not good at all now without tempest because of the power creep. If they introduce defenses that are not dependant on stats, there shouldn’t be a problem.

Also, part of why ele has high DPS in raids is overloads, so a DPS elite spec needs to have something that will give ele equivalent damage to those, that is less risky to use.

More single-target skills are not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is our new weapon that gets them. A new weapon with single-target skills will be way better for mobile damage, because there will be no huge delays, which seem to be a trade-off for our AoE. If you want AoE, just pick any other weapon, we have tons of that.

I would prefer if if our new weapon is ranged though, because damage ele has trouble surviving even as ranged. They would need to cram lots of defenses to make melee DPS work.

You really think they are going to give ele a main-hand? That requires work.

To get an idea of what will actually happen, think about what can be done with the least effort possible.

Also, they have shown themselves COMPLETELY unable to come up with new ideas for eles (they even cannibalized the auramancer concept to make tempest a thing, which is a shame because it could have been its own spec).

I’d expect an off-hand single-target ranged damage weapon to pair with scepter (and not addressing the terrible autos and worthless skills holding scepter back). I expect them to give more defense through heals/boons, and most of all, I expect to be completely disappointed again.

BlackBeard.2873:

You really think they are going to give ele a main-hand? That requires work.

To get an idea of what will actually happen, think about what can be done with the least effort possible.

Also, they have shown themselves COMPLETELY unable to come up with new ideas for eles (they even cannibalized the auramancer concept to make tempest a thing, which is a shame because it could have been its own spec).

I’d expect an off-hand single-target ranged damage weapon to pair with scepter (and not addressing the terrible autos and worthless skills holding scepter back). I expect them to give more defense through heals/boons, and most of all, I expect to be completely disappointed again.

Worst than warhorn? :-)

One thing is sure, the next elite spec won’t be bunker oriented, I’m “afraid” this time they’ll have to work …a little

Ganathar.4956:

I believe that the sustain of the elementalist is a non-issue for the next elite spec. Yes, base elementalists used to have decent survivability if they got defensive stats pre-HoT. However, those capabilities are not good at all now without tempest because of the power creep. If they introduce defenses that are not dependant on stats, there shouldn’t be a problem.

Also, part of why ele has high DPS in raids is overloads, so a DPS elite spec needs to have something that will give ele equivalent damage to those, that is less risky to use.

More single-target skills are not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is our new weapon that gets them. A new weapon with single-target skills will be way better for mobile damage, because there will be no huge delays, which seem to be a trade-off for our AoE. If you want AoE, just pick any other weapon, we have tons of that.

I would prefer if if our new weapon is ranged though, because damage ele has trouble surviving even as ranged. They would need to cram lots of defenses to make melee DPS work.

Very good points all around

wait there is going to be a new specialization? Is it even confirmed?

Dadnir.5038:

Name : Archon

Niche : DPS

Archetype : Elementalist/necromancer

Mechanism : Archon : a transformation skill which is like a shroud and filled with arcane skills that replace weapon skills. Ideally arcane’s traits work with each skill. Lock you out of utility skills but shroud you in magic to keep you alive.

Weapon : Torch

Utility skill : Mantra.

General idea : The idea is to give to the elementalist a bit of survivability in a dps oriented niche by shrouding it in magic.

---

Name : Warden

Niche : Support/tank

Archetype : Elementalist/warrior

Mechanism : More or less a burst skill on F5. The warden have 1-3 blood shard that fill themselve when he is using magic and you can discharge this magic based on the element your using at the moment.

Weapon : Shield

Utility : Consecration. Fill the earth with elemental magic creating area consecrated by this/theses elements. (Yes it would be “wards” Zicarous)

General idea : The idea is to not stray far from the elementalist but gve it tools that will help in it’s support and add an extra “burst” skill that could allow a burst of dps or a burst in defense depending on which attunment you are.

---

Name : Wizard

Niche : Movement/evade

Archetype : Elementalist/thief

Mechanism : Endurance management mechanism. Whenever you switch attunment you gain a definite amount of endurance.

Weapon : Main hand sword

Utility : Trick (people that use magic all have their own trick )

General idea : The general idea is to create a spec that focus around the ability to dodge. It’s an avoidance spec.

---

Name : Source master
The major critic about this spec is the weapon choice. I chose the pistol because it felt like using a “mechanic” weapon was a good way to showcase a spec that channel magic through external object/source. But well that may be a bad idea (or not)

Niche : Wide, backline support and dps (low mobility)

Archetype : Elementalist/ranger

Mechanism :
Source : Magic spot that follow the Sourcemaster and automatically copy it’s attunment and core profession traits effect related to attunment. By default the source can’t be damage and follow you. F5 allow you to fix the source at a spot until you want it to follow you again.

weapon : pistol

Utility skill : Those could be called manipulation and the main effect would be to shape your source into spells. ending with area of effect support or damage.

General idea : This a spec that use a tool like the revenant’s stone of ventarii to enhance the effect of attunment swaping by allowing these effects to also trigger at the location of the “source”. The point is to improve dps and widden support abilities.
_________________________________________________________________

Note : I feel like it’s important to vary the mechanisms of the differents spec. Each one of them have to rely on a different aspect of the game : being pet, dodge, burst or transformation. This allow builds and gameplay to focus on different things.

There is plenty way for anet to correct the flaw of the elementalist through E-spec without staying in this state that so much people seem to hate to the core and without steping again in the overly tanky support pvp niche or the op dps pve niche.

Out of these 4 spec for example, only the source master would feel lacking in regard of defensive ability, still it’s support abilities lies in being able to widen the base support of the elementalist to 10 player instead of 5.

As for the 3 other, if these mechanisms are supposed to work for other profession there is no reason that it would not work for elementalist.

I think all elite spec for ele are going to have the same 4 atuments just the number of skill they would add in to changes that would be too much.
As for the next elite spec it dependents on what the expansion will be will it be about a dragon x2 or just one of them or not about the dragon at all. Right now magic is going kind of crazy so maybe an ele consume by magic for its elite spec but that could mean a lot of things. I think ele is missing a true tank melee (non support or just self support only) set up.

Much time passed since we saw crystals and zepherites and masters of aspects fighting, maybe it was enough to make ele with 3 new elements: sun, lightning, wind. With meele eastern style fighting (but not too much keep it at low profile, rather to see nice sounds and animations effects of crystal elements).
Attuning to element always make aura on our hands. So just make it greater enough to punch some dragon minions.

@Dadnir — very creative, enjoyable to read your ideas. Thanks!

I expect the Shatterstoner.

All skills are changed to Shatterstone. All traits add an extra stack of vulnerability to Shatterstone. The elite skill is Elite Shatterstone, which has an extra stack of vulnerability.

The offhand is now Shatterstone.

Fear the might of Shatterstone!

Aiglos.2907:

I expect the Shatterstoner.

All skills are changed to Shatterstone. All traits add an extra stack of vulnerability to Shatterstone. The elite skill is Elite Shatterstone, which has an extra stack of vulnerability.

The offhand is now Shatterstone.

Fear the might of Shatterstone!

Nah man, half the skills will be the new flamestrike, with worthless fire fields that never hit anything other than stationary targets.

The good news is, we will be reasonably well powered against golems, which is how ANet does most of their development, esp for eles (shatterstone, overloads, flamestrike, etc.)

Aiglos.2907:

I expect the Shatterstoner.

All skills are changed to Shatterstone. All traits add an extra stack of vulnerability to Shatterstone. The elite skill is Elite Shatterstone, which has an extra stack of vulnerability.

The offhand is now Shatterstone.

Fear the might of Shatterstone!

This person gets it.

It can’t be worse than tempest:

Recycled auras, recycled effects, no new fields, no new condis, a useless weapon, cheap useless elite skill redesigned twice, only defensive traits, complete lack of synergy between weapons, complete lack of synergy with the class design and overloads, complete lack of synergy between skills, crippled gameplay to defense bot, slow gameplay, crappy range.

I hope this time they do listen to the beta feedback and don’t rush it.

Wow being afraid of new elite spec’s…I am afraid of every balance update on ele…

If we don’t get any active damage defence (block’s, evades, blinds and such) and no one good damage skill…it will be just the same trash as tempest….

Supreme.3164:

I feel it in my guts, the next spec has to potential to be even worst than Tempest

Tempest isn’t a bad elite spec though.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Much time passed since we saw crystals and zepherites and masters of aspects fighting, maybe it was enough to make ele with 3 new elements: sun, lightning, wind. With meele eastern style fighting (but not too much keep it at low profile, rather to see nice sounds and animations effects of crystal elements).
Attuning to element always make aura on our hands. So just make it greater enough to punch some dragon minions.

I don’t think there’s any chance of the attunements being changed. That would require too many changes – the core weapons would require new skills, and the core specialisations would also need to be reworked.

I could see a weapon being introduced where the skills are flavoured towards the aspects: so fire becomes sun with a support focus instead of damage, air becomes lightning (possibly a melee attunement, a la Aspect Arena), water becomes wind (with less of a support focus), and earth becomes crystal. The specialisation could then have traits that represent that the roles of the attunements have changed: they could, for instance, have the top line of traits being Sun-focused, the middle line being Lightning-focused, and the bottom line being Wind-focused, with Crystal being a unifying theme rather than an aspect that you specialise in.

Done correctly, it could mean that you can still have the theme of an aspect while using core weapons. For instance, consider the potential of a trait that causes fire fields you create to heal (and/or remove conditions from) allies…

CETheLucid.3964:

Supreme.3164:

I feel it in my guts, the next spec has to potential to be even worst than Tempest

Tempest isn’t a bad elite spec though.

I if you are talking about pve – you right!
I if you are talking about pvp – horribly nope! If you compere tempest to other elite specialisations it’s easy to see that it nothing improved

Tempests were still fairly strong in PvP until the last balance patch, and even now I feel they’re still competitive if played well. Not as strong as some others at the moment, but that’s the balance cycle, not the inherent design of the elite specialisation.

If there is an inherent problem with the design of tempest in PvP at the moment, it might be that compared to core elementalist it’s been pushed more towards defensive team support, while the balancing team has been pushing the meta towards faster kills.

If you-know-who is still in charge of the next elite spec, then there’s a good chance that it’s going to be worse.

Fashion Mage.3712:

If you-know-who is still in charge of the next elite spec, then there’s a good chance that it’s going to be worse.

RIP ele, RIP Theif

Don’t forget about guardians. :>

Moral of the story is that he shouldn’t be in charge of entire classes (or anything?).

Fashion Mage.3712:

Don’t forget about guardians. :>

Moral of the story is that he shouldn’t be in charge of entire classes (or anything?).

If ele dev would do balance on other classes – everything would suck…

oh wait…game might be really balanced!

Fashion Mage.3712:

Don’t forget about guardians. :>

Moral of the story is that he shouldn’t be in charge of entire classes (or anything?).

Oh I totally forgot he also did the DH. You really don’t have to look further than the state of those 3 forms to understand how badly it’s going. (kitten i remember pre hot I joined the Rev forums. Their dev was commenting, discussing feedback on the spec, what changes we wanted. It was great!

And then he disappeared, someone else took over the balancing, and agreements that the rev players worked out with the original dev got thrown out.

(A good example being Crystal Hibernation. The dev said that it could either be mobile, or it could have good healing: not both. Then the healing got balanced out, leaving the worst of both worlds.)

Mr Godlike.6098:

CETheLucid.3964:

Supreme.3164:

I feel it in my guts, the next spec has to potential to be even worst than Tempest

Tempest isn’t a bad elite spec though.

I if you are talking about pve – you right!
I if you are talking about pvp – horribly nope! If you compere tempest to other elite specialisations it’s easy to see that it nothing improved

“Was depressed ele…now depressed druid” is your signature, there’s still a few builds there, just not as supportive. (refer to pic, nearly 700k damage with staff)

What Elementalists really need most is the ability to dodge while overloading. Tempest is a great design but it’s the rest of the trait lines that are lacking.

Wait how is tempest bad? You cant play ele atm with out having tempest line at all points of the game.
It may of been some what week to start with but they buffed it a good bit over time showing they are willing to make the new elite spec work and have a use after the fact. If any thing your bad feeling is your own problem with change.

Jski.6180:

Wait how is tempest bad? You cant play ele atm with out having tempest line at all points of the game.
It may of been some what week to start with but they buffed it a good bit over time showing they are willing to make the new elite spec work and have a use after the fact. If any thing your bad feeling is your own problem with change.

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability. This on top of the massive amount aoe daze/stuns added in hot overload is absolutely garbage in pvp. Dodging and kiting is the only way to stay alive as an ele and overload is a melee 5 second cast. Anyone with a semblance of logic will understand that. But the anet dev, who couldn’t even get an overload off against an npc thought this was a good idea! Not only this but it encourages auto attacks because you have to wait for it to charge, this is bad because 10/12 ele auto attacks are garbage.

Now for raids it’s meta but this isn’t because its a well designed spec, it’s because it had massive power creep like all the other hot specs. You don’t not get to take an elite

OneKlicKill.4285:

Jski.6180:

Wait how is tempest bad? You cant play ele atm with out having tempest line at all points of the game.
It may of been some what week to start with but they buffed it a good bit over time showing they are willing to make the new elite spec work and have a use after the fact. If any thing your bad feeling is your own problem with change.

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability. This on top of the massive amount aoe daze/stuns added in hot overload is absolutely garbage in pvp. Dodging and kiting is the only way to stay alive as an ele and overload is a melee 5 second cast. Anyone with a semblance of logic will understand that. But the anet dev, who couldn’t even get an overload off against an npc thought this was a good idea! Not only this but it encourages auto attacks because you have to wait for it to charge, this is bad because 10/12 ele auto attacks are garbage.

Now for raids it’s meta but this isn’t because its a well designed spec, it’s because it had massive power creep like all the other hot specs. You don’t not get to take an elite

Welcome to playing a mages class.

Jski.6180:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Jski.6180:

Wait how is tempest bad? You cant play ele atm with out having tempest line at all points of the game.
It may of been some what week to start with but they buffed it a good bit over time showing they are willing to make the new elite spec work and have a use after the fact. If any thing your bad feeling is your own problem with change.

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability. This on top of the massive amount aoe daze/stuns added in hot overload is absolutely garbage in pvp. Dodging and kiting is the only way to stay alive as an ele and overload is a melee 5 second cast. Anyone with a semblance of logic will understand that. But the anet dev, who couldn’t even get an overload off against an npc thought this was a good idea! Not only this but it encourages auto attacks because you have to wait for it to charge, this is bad because 10/12 ele auto attacks are garbage.

Now for raids it’s meta but this isn’t because its a well designed spec, it’s because it had massive power creep like all the other hot specs. You don’t not get to take an elite

Welcome to playing a mages class.

Oh it’s jski, always great discussions with you…

OneKlicKill.4285:

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability.

I’d say that necros have less access to stability. And thieves, come to think on it. Neither of those have a mechanic based on a five second channel with an “Interrupt Me Now!” sign over their heads, though.

(Strictly speaking, you can get a trait that grants stability while channeling, but in the current meta that’s competing with a trait that you need more.)

The fundamental reason why people don’t like it, I think, is that it effectively replaces the core elementalist playstyle with something different. If the elite specialisations were balanced against core builds, this wouldn’t be a problem – people who liked the core elementalist could play the core elementalist, and people who liked the tempest could play the tempest. Because they’re clearly not balanced, though, the old playstyle that veteran elementalist players enjoyed has effectively been removed from the competitive side of the game, leaving something they don’t enjoy.

(Personally, I like tempest as an alternative, but it would be better as an alternative rather than something that’s effectively required to be competitive.)

Now, even with the downsides and the nerfs, tempest can still shine in the right team compositions and strategies. However, it can also be frustrating when you don’t have a team that gives you the support to get your overloads off, while the old elementalist was a lot more independent.

draxynnic.3719:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability.

I’d say that necros have less access to stability. And thieves, come to think on it. Neither of those have a mechanic based on a five second channel with an “Interrupt Me Now!” sign over their heads, though.

(Strictly speaking, you can get a trait that grants stability while channeling, but in the current meta that’s competing with a trait that you need more.)

The fundamental reason why people don’t like it, I think, is that it effectively replaces the core elementalist playstyle with something different. If the elite specialisations were balanced against core builds, this wouldn’t be a problem – people who liked the core elementalist could play the core elementalist, and people who liked the tempest could play the tempest. Because they’re clearly not balanced, though, the old playstyle that veteran elementalist players enjoyed has effectively been removed from the competitive side of the game, leaving something they don’t enjoy.

(Personally, I like tempest as an alternative, but it would be better as an alternative rather than something that’s effectively required to be competitive.)

Now, even with the downsides and the nerfs, tempest can still shine in the right team compositions and strategies. However, it can also be frustrating when you don’t have a team that gives you the support to get your overloads off, while the old elementalist was a lot more independent.

True, Thief by definition have the worst stability. Both necro and ele have 1 utility on a long kitten CD. All 3 have elites (as if those were good)

But that aside these are the 3 that have the most difficult time surviving in the current mass aoe daze/cc meta.

I would argue that in the current meta 1 stack of stability over 5 seconds is garbage and honestly should have been baseline with a trait making it 2 stacks.

And your right, part of the hate on tempest is because they completely destroyed a class people loved with it.
Part of it is for some, myself included, because the playstyle is not enjoyable, we didnt sign up to auto attack and wait, we signed up to dance.

But from a design perspective, it is also in a VERY bad place. It was clearly looked at with design based around Raids, where it shines very well (and if it wasn’t they got lucky, even then you cant dodge while overloading so you sometimes don’t have a choice to dodge mechanics…)
But where else in the game are overloads even useful? Ele autos are garbage and the fact you have to stay in an atunement for 5 seconds to charge it means you WILL be auto attacking. The fact it extends the CD further deters ever leaving a good auto attack atunement because you will be locked out of it. This leaves just F/A air dagger and Fire Staff as viable auto attacks and viable builds or LH, but surprise, conjures are pretty garbage.

And yes, nearly every patch brings a further nerf, which inevitably further forces us into the support roll and destroys every chance at being free from it, and yes we can still get by in good pre-mades and high level match-ups but kitten, I didn’t start maining ele years ago to play the priest class of the game… That’s what tempest is, the babysiter for necro…

Even season 3 I was still able to play F/A variants but then they nerfed base healing and we were forced into healing amulets as the only method of survival. Tempest didnt bring what we desperately needed , Active defenses. A-Net made it clear they didnt like the sustain bruiser, but that was our base mechanic of survival, unlike other classes with HP bars, Blocks, Invuln, stealth, blinks, evades. We had sustain, keeping massive boons for regen and prot, keeping up soothing mist, blasting our water fields, traiting water. They gutted that then moved parts of it to tempest, with a mechanic that doesn’t even synergize with the 4 other trait lines minors, let alone half of the traits that require on swap. It doesn’t synergize with Glyphs that require you to be moving through attunements to use the proper spell.

Tempest is bad. Could it be improved ? at this point no. We gave so much feedback every beta, every announcement and Karl & crew refused to listen. But what do you expect when the head of our class cant even overload against svanir? Devs dont play ele, its obvious.

But anyway, rant ending and on topic of this thread:

Bad feeling about next elite spec.

This might be a solution, but I was thinking that maybe they should have eles with only TWO elements.

The big problem with adding new weapons is that adding a single offhand weapon creates eight different attacks to balance, more than any other class’s two-hander would, while an actual two-hander generates 20 different attacks, as many as most classes with four different weapons. That’s a big deal.

So what if they gave Eles Greatsword (or some other two-hander), but it’s tied to the Elite spec, and the Elite spec has the built in mechanism of restricting you to two elements?

So let’s say the Xpac 2 class would be the “Volcanic” or something to that effect, it would be just Fire and Earth, essentially giving you the same 10 powers that other classes get through swapping, and twice as many new powers as any other class would be getting, but at least less than 20. It would also be easier to balance because it’d be DPS and Tank, not Healer as well.

Then XPac 3 could offer the “Tempe-” no, that’s taken, um. . . the “Tropical Depression,” which is still GS, but just Water and Wind together. Or it could be Longbow or Rifle or whatever and the other GS abilities could come later.

In any case, I think it’d be fun and also easier to balance. One issue though would be that it would automatically make 2/5 Traits mostly worthless to slot, but I would think they could get around that by adding language that makes it so that Fire counts as Air attunement and Earth counts as Water attunement for the purposes of those traitlines, or something like that.

Ohoni.6057:

This might be a solution, but I was thinking that maybe they should have eles with only TWO elements.

The big problem with adding new weapons is that adding a single offhand weapon creates eight different attacks to balance, more than any other class’s two-hander would, while an actual two-hander generates 20 different attacks, as many as most classes with four different weapons. That’s a big deal.

So what if they gave Eles Greatsword (or some other two-hander), but it’s tied to the Elite spec, and the Elite spec has the built in mechanism of restricting you to two elements?

So let’s say the Xpac 2 class would be the “Volcanic” or something to that effect, it would be just Fire and Earth, essentially giving you the same 10 powers that other classes get through swapping, and twice as many new powers as any other class would be getting, but at least less than 20. It would also be easier to balance because it’d be DPS and Tank, not Healer as well.

Then XPac 3 could offer the “Tempe-” no, that’s taken, um. . . the “Tropical Depression,” which is still GS, but just Water and Wind together. Or it could be Longbow or Rifle or whatever and the other GS abilities could come later.

In any case, I think it’d be fun and also easier to balance. One issue though would be that it would automatically make 2/5 Traits mostly worthless to slot, but I would think they could get around that by adding language that makes it so that Fire counts as Air attunement and Earth counts as Water attunement for the purposes of those traitlines, or something like that.

People(with) made suggestion years ago about this:

-Link weapon skills to elements
-Ele max 10 skills + F1/2 whatever
-Ability to mix (EX) main hand fire with earth off hand plus weapon swap with similar or different combo

Most GW1 eles made very long posts giving suggestions on how to tweak ele…they could have listened but alas…in their immense wisdow they kept the design so…

OneKlicKill.4285:

Jski.6180:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Jski.6180:

Wait how is tempest bad? You cant play ele atm with out having tempest line at all points of the game.
It may of been some what week to start with but they buffed it a good bit over time showing they are willing to make the new elite spec work and have a use after the fact. If any thing your bad feeling is your own problem with change.

Ele is bad from a game play perspective. It goes completely against the class as a whole. Ele are the lowest hp/armor class with the least access to stability. This on top of the massive amount aoe daze/stuns added in hot overload is absolutely garbage in pvp. Dodging and kiting is the only way to stay alive as an ele and overload is a melee 5 second cast. Anyone with a semblance of logic will understand that. But the anet dev, who couldn’t even get an overload off against an npc thought this was a good idea! Not only this but it encourages auto attacks because you have to wait for it to charge, this is bad because 10/12 ele auto attacks are garbage.

Now for raids it’s meta but this isn’t because its a well designed spec, it’s because it had massive power creep like all the other hot specs. You don’t not get to take an elite

Welcome to playing a mages class.

Oh it’s jski, always great discussions with you…

Well that the point of being a mages class your spells are every thing and always will be every thing your not about your armor or weapon. Stop trying to make ele classes into a war wantable.

Jski.6180:

Stop trying to make ele classes into a war wantable.

Tell that to Anet ‘cause that’s all ele has ever been since launch.

Jski.6180:

Well that the point of being a mages class your spells are every thing and always will be every thing your not about your armor or weapon. Stop trying to make ele classes into a war wantable.

*Wannabe
but yes, this. I can’t stand it when people want a class to have the strengths of other classes rather than focusing on its own unique strengths.

Fist thing is, don’t limit elementalist to a common/boring mage class from other games for me eles will always by more like warriors from “the last air bender” in the sense that the only limit is their imagination, nothing prevents them from changing armor, nor weapons; from fighting hand to hand to casting spells. Everything we do can be done imbued with elemental and arcane power.

Second we still have a loooong way till next xpac and with the awesome work ANET has done recently, I doubt they will screw up this class.

I doubt I’m the only one that noticed that in LS2 the “Master of Wind” used skills that eles have never been able to use?… and he did not use any weapons.

Supreme.3164:

I feel it in my guts, the next spec has to potential to be even worst than Tempest

We all know that another exp is coming and with another set of elite specs, now Anet will try again to please the playerbase by releasing elite specs with the most requested features and the most expected playstyle by the ele community is DPS/burst elite

And here the problems arise…I can’t see any way for the devs to design a viable DPS/burst elite while avoiding major issues

1) Ele survivability tied to its ability to heal through dmg AKA facetank dmg or die that require huge amounts of toughness and healing power, not forgetting ofc vitality

2) Lowest armour and base HP in game

3) Ability to deal huge amounts of dmg to static/immobile enemies in PvE and WvW ( in a smaller tone) when fully specced for dmg without sustain ofc

4) Great support class that has the potential to be stacked in PvP and that would create a meta nobody would like.

So how Anet will deal with these issues?

I have few speculation to talk about, something I know the devs are thinking about and that they will always take in consideration

1) water/earth combo
They’re afraid of creating another super bunker support/duellist like the old celestial d/d, something that can be stacked in PvP and can deal with anything throwed at them

2) fire/air combo
They’re afraid of creating a monster in PvE that would top the DPS charts for months…can you imagine the cries of the raid community?….we all can remember the outcries from pvers to nerf icebow so…

Taking both these elements in consideration there is a good chance that next elite spec will be a single target melee main hand elite with a trait line devoid of any sustain feature , it will have some lacklustre dmg modifiers and some uninspiring(copied) traits with
lesser effects respect to the original

We would end up with a wannabe fresh air d/d ele sort of like…basically something completely unviable anywhere you may think.

Now unless Anet solve the 4 issues described above, I see no way for them to create something viable for our next elite…something you may guess, I won’t spend any money on this time around

If any of you got way to solve these problems…well now would be a good time to talk, to grab their attention before it’s too late

Everything you posted must be addressed to the core elementalist before they decide to move on to another elite specialization in order to fill the gaps of our profession’s main problems.

Jhoul.6923:

I doubt I’m the only one that noticed that in LS2 the “Master of Wind” used skills that eles have never been able to use?… and he did not use any weapons.

The Zephyrites use the skills from the Aspect Arena in combat.

I could see these being used as the basis for a new elite specialisation, with some tweaks. However, I don’t think it’s likely that we’ll see PCs being able to fight without weapons – the weapons are built into the game mechanics.

draxynnic.3719:

Jhoul.6923:

I doubt I’m the only one that noticed that in LS2 the “Master of Wind” used skills that eles have never been able to use?… and he did not use any weapons.

The Zephyrites use the skills from the Aspect Arena in combat.

I could see these being used as the basis for a new elite specialisation, with some tweaks. However, I don’t think it’s likely that we’ll see PCs being able to fight without weapons – the weapons are built into the game mechanics.

I know, I just used it as an example for not limiting the class, just because we are the “mage” of the game don’t mean we can’t change armor or fight like other classes.

Jhoul.6923:

draxynnic.3719:

Jhoul.6923:

I doubt I’m the only one that noticed that in LS2 the “Master of Wind” used skills that eles have never been able to use?… and he did not use any weapons.

The Zephyrites use the skills from the Aspect Arena in combat.

I could see these being used as the basis for a new elite specialisation, with some tweaks. However, I don’t think it’s likely that we’ll see PCs being able to fight without weapons – the weapons are built into the game mechanics.

I know, I just used it as an example for not limiting the class, just because we are the “mage” of the game don’t mean we can’t change armor or fight like other classes.

We’re not the only ‘mage’ of the game. They spread ‘mage’ into 3 pieces: mesmers, elementalists and necromancers. The three altogether composes what we know as a traditional mage.

Ohoni.6057:

This might be a solution, but I was thinking that maybe they should have eles with only TWO elements.

The big problem with adding new weapons is that adding a single offhand weapon creates eight different attacks to balance, more than any other class’s two-hander would, while an actual two-hander generates 20 different attacks, as many as most classes with four different weapons. That’s a big deal.

So what if they gave Eles Greatsword (or some other two-hander), but it’s tied to the Elite spec, and the Elite spec has the built in mechanism of restricting you to two elements?

So let’s say the Xpac 2 class would be the “Volcanic” or something to that effect, it would be just Fire and Earth, essentially giving you the same 10 powers that other classes get through swapping, and twice as many new powers as any other class would be getting, but at least less than 20. It would also be easier to balance because it’d be DPS and Tank, not Healer as well.

Then XPac 3 could offer the “Tempe-” no, that’s taken, um. . . the “Tropical Depression,” which is still GS, but just Water and Wind together. Or it could be Longbow or Rifle or whatever and the other GS abilities could come later.

In any case, I think it’d be fun and also easier to balance. One issue though would be that it would automatically make 2/5 Traits mostly worthless to slot, but I would think they could get around that by adding language that makes it so that Fire counts as Air attunement and Earth counts as Water attunement for the purposes of those traitlines, or something like that.

I really love elementalist (my main since release) as of now, with all the skill diversity, but I agree the profession isn’t built properly in regards to its own future.

I think the solution is much more drastic.

We need an unification of skill mechanics across attunements. This means staff 5 should be, for example, a channeled aoe, no matter the attunement. Meteor Shower and Healing Rain are good, but Static Field and Shock Wave would be removed, replaced by something like lightning clouds and sandstorm.

This would need to be done for every weapon, removing and replacing skills. The key of this change is that the core skill would be the same no matter the attunement, making design and balance easier.

To compensate for the loss of variety, we could get weapon swap, and transform some of the conjure weapons (greatsword, shield, and shortbow) into actual weapons. Conjure weapons would go RIP with this (they’ve always been a balance nightmare anyway), so they could be replaced by minions (keeping each elemental type independent instead of inside glyphs). Maybe add new weapons as well, like dual swords, which feel better for core instead of elite specs.

Whatever happens, the greatest thing about the elementalist (the skill variety) is what is hurting its future the most.

We need an unification of skill mechanics across attunements. This means staff 5 should be, for example, a channeled aoe, no matter the attunement. Meteor Shower and Healing Rain are good, but Static Field and Shock Wave would be removed, replaced by something like lightning clouds and sandstorm.

Ehhh. . . I don’t know if I’d want that. The variety is part of the fun. I tend to think that an Ele where all the attacks along the vertical axis are basically the same aside from graphics and some modifiers, it would just be boring. It would also end up with some skills being a bit OP, like if every Dagger 4 were Ride the Lightning with a different elemental effect (and it would have to be) then D/D Eles would be zipping all over the place.

To compensate for the loss of variety, we could get weapon swap, and transform some of the conjure weapons (greatsword, shield, and shortbow) into actual weapons.

Lol, no, they’re not going to allow both 4 attunements AND weapon swap.

Look, Eles are eles. If you don’t like Eles, that’s fine, but completely overhauling the core mechanics like this would be the worst possible thing for the class. Worst possible. Aside from giving them a sword, of course. ;p

Ohoni.6057:

We need an unification of skill mechanics across attunements. This means staff 5 should be, for example, a channeled aoe, no matter the attunement. Meteor Shower and Healing Rain are good, but Static Field and Shock Wave would be removed, replaced by something like lightning clouds and sandstorm.

Ehhh. . . I don’t know if I’d want that. The variety is part of the fun. I tend to think that an Ele where all the attacks along the vertical axis are basically the same aside from graphics and some modifiers, it would just be boring. It would also end up with some skills being a bit OP, like if every Dagger 4 were Ride the Lightning with a different elemental effect (and it would have to be) then D/D Eles would be zipping all over the place.

To compensate for the loss of variety, we could get weapon swap, and transform some of the conjure weapons (greatsword, shield, and shortbow) into actual weapons.

Lol, no, they’re not going to allow both 4 attunements AND weapon swap.

Look, Eles are eles. If you don’t like Eles, that’s fine, but completely overhauling the core mechanics like this would be the worst possible thing for the class. Worst possible. Aside from giving them a sword, of course. ;p

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to lose variety either. And I already said I love elementalist, so don’t twist my words.

The problem is, we’ll keep getting boring off-hand weapons in the future. And if by chance we get some interesting weapon, utilities will probably suck in exchange. This is almost a fact, because you can’t expect ArenaNet to dedicate four times more effort with eles just because, and then balance all of it again.

Weapon swap plus 4 attunements can be fine if cooldowns are adjusted (either in attunements or in weapon skills), so weapon swapping becomes part of the rotation. It could make staying in a single attunement more viable as well, for those who like that.

Also, an interesting mechanic that could be born from this is that melee skills with chains could respect the chain step when switching attunements, so you use fire autoattack, then switch to water, and instead of the autoattack, you get the second step of the chain. Could open the way for cool combos, and reward constant attunement switching.

Another interesting mechanic that we could get from this change is channels (like the meteor shower and the healing rain) not canceling upon attunement switch, and instead change their effect halfway. So, you are casting meteor shower, then switch to water, and it starts raining, stacking up the time of both skills, again rewarding attunement switching.

I haven’t sit down and thought which skills should become the norm, but I could try doing that if people is really interested on what this revamped core elementalist could look like.

I think that indefinite off-hand weapons would be a far preferable outcome to genericizing all attacks across elements.

Zero interest.

I am 90% sure that they are going to procrastinate on making the ele elite spec (because properly designing for ele is difficult and takes careful thought) and end up with an elite spec that is thrown together as fast as possible. That is the problem with tempest, they were trying to make sword, but it was too similar to dagger or was taking too long to make, so they just slapped on warhorn because it requires no new animations or anything. Same with shouts. Even when they were previewing the specs, they were still developing animations for overloads (which was primarly all they had to do). This is why the whole spec makes 0 sense, it has a mechanic that wants to be an in-your-face, selfish brawler and a weapon that is mid-range, and shouts that are all about support from mid-range. I mean, even some skills are almost exact repeats of others (warhorn 4 in earth is basically earth focus 4, minus the 3 condis cleared, and the trait gale song really wanted to be called tempest defense, but they realized it was strictly better so took shocking aura off the shout).

Eles are going to get the lowest effort, shortcut elite spec possible, designed at the last minute, and be completely disappointed once again.

If you have any faith in the team that develops for eles, you are a complete fool.

I thought Warhorn had a few new animations. Wasn’t that “wave rectangle” animation a new one? I mean, it didn’t need new character model animations, but I really doubt that most classes will be getting new model animations any time soon, if Ele did get sword, it would all be the same basic sword or scepter animations that are already being used, just with fire and ice and stuff on them. As it stands there are something like five classes with swords (15 skills total), and only about 5-6 different attack animations between them.

I thought they swapped cuz they came up with this bizarre idea that for HoT every class should get either a 2 hand or off hand weapon.

Ohoni.6057:

I thought Warhorn had a few new animations. Wasn’t that “wave rectangle” animation a new one? I mean, it didn’t need new character model animations, but I really doubt that most classes will be getting new model animations any time soon, if Ele did get sword, it would all be the same basic sword or scepter animations that are already being used, just with fire and ice and stuff on them. As it stands there are something like five classes with swords (15 skills total), and only about 5-6 different attack animations between them.

Most of the animations are actually just slapping on other-class animations. The fire field is VERY similar to Zerker bow. Air 5 is a kinda new, but was probably just them reusing some other tech in a diff. way. Character animations are much harder because you have to sync a lot of things. Ground animations are WAY easier to pull off. That is why tempest has only ground animations – very easy to slap together at the last minute.