Guild Wars 2

I’m about to make a suggestion spreadsheet thread for elementalist to deal with balance inconsistencies (see links in signature for examples)

Before I do so, I’d like to collect information from other players:

What are the current balance problems of elementalist/tempest?
What is too strong and overbearing in build diversity?
What is too weak and overshadowed by stronger options?
How is your experience in PvE / PvP / and WvW?

I look forward to reading everyone’s response.

Slightly OP:
Geomancer’s training
Soothing Ice when used with Powerful aura
Hardy Conduit
Elemental Bastion & Elemental Shielding with multiple aura sources (blasting/leaping is easy)
Sand Squall , when multiple eles use it
Static field – people claim it is OP in WvW due to lack of a target limit , duration, & unblockable
“Wash the Pain Away!” – the larger AoE heal with 600 radius ought to be reduced

Underpowered:
Rebound! – only used for proccing elemental bastion
Tempest’s Latent stamina
Scepter autos … should do less DPS than dagger but at the very least more than staff
Dragon’s tooth – the delay kills it
Fire traitline : One with Fire
Signets – should be 180 AoE in PvE
Tornado – noone uses it after it doesn’t affect Meteor shower

In PvP… Auramancer vs. Conjure Tempests vs. Fresh Air Tempests

In PvP, elementalist is only an healbot, and is being extremely useful at it. The issues is that the class looks good from the outside, but is unviable once it leaves this small niche. When was the last time you’ve seen a dagger/dagger elementalist or a staff elementalist?

Auramancer
Dagger/Focus auramancer is top tier (core tournament meta) in sPvP. This build overperforms because Focus has always been the most effective weapon in the Elementalist kitten nal (Instant immunity, Instant Condition Clears, Projectile Hate).

Currently, Elemental Shielding + Geomancer’s Defense synergize perfectly with Focus since it reduces the best cooldowns of the entire class by 33% and reduces chill time by 33%. Additionnally, it synergizes perfectly with Tempest due to the Auras ( 3 seconds per aura). With Focus, you can skip Cleansing Water and go directly to Aura Share without much consequences due to the instant 3 condition clears from Earth 4 (they also bing Diamond Skin).

Popularity: 5/5
Difficulty: 1/5
Effectiveness 5/5

Conjure Tempest (PvP)

This build is an offensive variation of the Tempest using staff. It achieves its damage rotation via the use of a conjured weapons (Earth Shield + Fiery Greatsword). It’s a balanced build overall that gets heavily outclassed by meta builds and classes such as Reapers, Revenants, Scrappers, Auramancer.

One huge problem such damage Tempest that does not use Fresh Air is that it eventually runs out of cooldown due to the long cooldown of Overload Recharge of 20 (Arcane won’t help as the cooldown reduction is currently bugged; goes up 2.5 sec back when swapping attunement). Such Tempests use a variery of Overloads, and not just air like the Fresh Air Tempests. Another problem it faced was the massive nerf/bug fix of the Earth Overload that reduced the protection uptime by up to 70%.

The solutions to that build are simple. Reduce Overload Recharge to 15 seconds down from 20; Increase protection duration from Hardy Conduit to 5 seconds, up from 3.

Popularity: 1/5
Difficulty: 5*/5
Effectiveness: 3/5 (Outclassed by other meta classes)

Fresh Air Tempest

This build uses Fresh Air to refresh the cooldown of the Air Overload once it is completed. This allows the regular usage of the best damaging overload to deal damage. It is also usually played with Scepter and Focus.

Popularity: 4/5
Difficulty: 4/5
Effectiveness: 3/5 (Outclasses by other meta classes; could easily become broken if overbuffed)

Conclusions

A few points to remember.
-Tempest builds is a fight between 1. Support-Healer builds and 2. Offensive Builds.
- Both the Offensive Builds and the Healer builds take the same traits from the Tempest since the rest of the traits are not synergizing with anything, or lackluster (Latent Stamina is not one of them; I am mostly looking at the 2nd Grandmasters and the Shout Traits)
-Between the Offensive builds, you have either a Fresh Air build or a Non-Fresh Air Build that usually is Conjure Tempest.

TheBravery.9615:

I’m about to make a suggestion spreadsheet thread for elementalist to deal with balance inconsistencies (see links in signature for examples)

Before I do so, I’d like to collect information from other players:

What are the current balance problems of elementalist/tempest?
What is too strong and overbearing in build diversity?
What is too weak and overshadowed by stronger options?
How is your experience in PvE / PvP / and WvW?

I look forward to reading everyone’s response.

I think whole ele forum is for that, one huge collective to show that we care? by number of views and replies? whole forum is filled with our interest, collecting it in one place, have only public-relations meaning while simultaleously marginalize whole efforts done in each topic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Ele-Weapon-Skills-A-constructive-feedback/first

Sunshine posts in his thread are accurate to this day. Imo.

then pvp forum specialist report where we collected a links to many cases that could be adressed:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Report-PvP-Forum-Specialist-Report/first

And to bring something to this topic. I will comment my view about tornado. I think its more disadvategous than moa. Moa is debuff transformation. Tornado = weaker moa. Fact that you can leave trasfromation while in tornado is the strongest side of it and honestly I don’t recall if you can leave tornado while being stunned. Tornado brings our only one water combat elite: whirpool, I tried to cleave downed druid in the water with it attempt failed.

Overpowered
Elemental bastion
Geomancer’s Training (only if focus!)
Cleansing water (water gm) – needs a small icd
Reduce healing scaling and add more base and/or just remove Cleric amulet… Or just give us back celestial?

Underpowered
Dagger offhand cleanse
Warhorn cleanse
Scepter dps….
Scepter speed on autos
Rebound
Fire trait line- give back might on cantrips but buff other stuff too in there….
Arcane (formerly Arcana) line is inferior to Tempest
Improve conjure weapons
Glyphs- druid ones are SO much better
Arcane utilities
Our elite skills….

Henrik.7560:

Overpowered
Elemental bastion
Geomancer’s Training (only if focus!)
Cleansing water (water gm) – needs a small icd
Reduce healing scaling and add more base and/or just remove Cleric amulet… Or just give us back celestial?

Underpowered
Dagger offhand cleanse
Warhorn cleanse
Scepter dps….
Scepter speed on autos
Rebound
Fire trait line- give back might on cantrips but buff other stuff too in there….
Arcane (formerly Arcana) line is inferior to Tempest
Improve conjure weapons
Glyphs- druid ones are SO much better
Arcane utilities
Our elite skills….

ICD on cleansing water is possibly the worst suggestion ever seen, they done that already in the past and the profession got directly into the trash bin for 1 year+.
Attunement swap, every single regen application…everything synergy with that single trait.

It removes a single condition therefore it needs to have fast access to it, as conditions get applied in groups and not one at time; to ask for an ICD is simply not feasible, this in not pre-launch GW2, this is 2016 and the ICD on cleansing water did not work in 2013 when conditions where not even close to be as broken as now and we didn’t have condi rev, scrapper, druid, reaper, condi shatter chronomancer etc etc

You need multiple regen applications to remove the groups of condis that get applied to the ele with an AA speed, loads of fast clicking , attunements rotations

And geomancer’s training like …what? All this fuss because ele can have a single instance of invulnerability every 33s?

Do you even play other professions like herald and scrapper or dragon hunter? chronomancer shield?

Do you even see anything that resemble dmg avoidance/negation on ele as strong as other professions……that is not straight down healing?

Don’t take it personally but…it’s difficult for me to take seriously anybody who claim that obsidian flesh and geomancer’s training(trait that reduce CD of it) are OP.
In terms of dmg avoidance, on a scale from 1 to 10….ele is at 1 where other professions go from 7 to 10

For well over 80% of any fight ele will face tank dmg that you like it or not and in a game where a herald can block for days with shield/sword, CC/stun you with staff, absorb all inc dmg; a scrapper that can go stealth travelling all map from A to B with no problems, block every 16s, more blocks on hammer, reflect, CC lock you etc etc etc etc; where a chronomancer can block chain, distortion, stealth, clone spamming and druid ane ect ect

In a game like this…for a single instance that ele can avoid face tanking dmg for a brief 4s, to consider it OP…it’s madness…I rest my case, can’t go further than this but seriously are we even playing the same game or league division (I’m diamond)?

*P.S and in wvw I go only d/w for everything from zerg fights to roaming and with warhorn other than dodges and healing you can’t avoid dmg

Ele balance problem is mainly one thing its seen as an jack of all triads class yet it cant do it all. So what it can ok you must go all in to make it worth it. This is not so much of a problem but you have all other classes become more jack of all trades though there elite spec yet they are still top notch for all there ability. Eng is also the jack of all trades class yet it can realy do every thing and it dose every thing very well.

My fix is to lose the ideal of ele being a jack of all trades class and see it more as a pure mages class who can do most things though magic and boons. So add more boons and skill effects to make this true such as more mage armor or effects on protection, reg, even retaliation for ele and add more on x apply y effects such as when you apply chill to some one also apply torment.

So in my view is if you cant make it though the ele magic/boons then you should have a hard time with the ele class but if you can make it though that you should nearly beat an ele every time. So necro and mez will be the hard counters to ele but ele should be a hard counter to all melee types and some mid armor.

Some of the healing is still probably too strong.

I don’t think celestial should return as it became over centralizing over the years on any class that do some combination (but not necessarily all) of stacking might, healing, conditions, power damage. It became the fuel for the game’s best shelters and offensive threats in the axe bow warriors and d/d else and cele engis of old. It let necromancer a stack might and crit 4K autoattacks while being kind of tanky. It fueled the most cancerous bunker meta of all time with tempest and chronomcancer.

The new menders amulet is really fun with elementalist/tempest imo. It provides decent damage and amazing healing without being able to tank for days, and has enough sustain to get by. The fresh air builds with it are probably the most fun I’ve ever had on ele, though I do agree that the healing can be a little overpowered, though mostly on clerics since you just act as a brain dead bunker instead of a cool versatile damage dealer that has support potential.

I’d still like to see D/D become viable again in some way though. I don’t know what amulet I’d use it with now since even crusaders (the old valk Amulet that dds used at launch) is gone. Sages seems like a decent idea, and menders maybe too. I just don’t think it would be able to have the tanky brawler feel in close range and still be able to survive. The menders builds I’ve played with scepter and warhorn could at least kite a bit.

Balance seen in a vacuum always leads to biased suggestions

Respect to ele, the condi application of a necromancer is OP
-The stealth reset of a thief is OP
-The CC potential of an engineer is OP
-The dmg of a revenant is OP
-The pet of a ranger is OP
Etc etc etc

I’m going for general idea, not specifically using other mechanics and so on, all this just to give an idea of what I’m saying : every profession holds something that makes it OP respects to other that’s ground zero basic logic , game design logic at elementary level

And by OP I mean something above average level and not gamebreaking concept like many think.

Healing is le main concept design as support class this is black on white so no matter what people think, the healing on ele will be always better than the rest because that’s the profession main and only source of defense against others

Since launch any kind of build for ele to be considered viable in PvP must be able of heal burst, being able to escape enemy pressure

Healing is the main feature of ele….’cause we have nothing else besides it no stealth, no clones, no blocks, no aegis, no low cd teleport, no highest HP, no heavy armour, no pets, no range swap…kittening nothing except healing get it already through your thick skull..it has been 4 years and you still read the same type of garbage on this forum :" ele healing is OP"

I mean if an ele trying to win a fight vs any other profession what else is supposed to do if not outheal them?
-Should we stealth?
-Should we teleport around the map every 5s or so?
-Shoud we swap to range and kite?
-Should we outdmg them?

Well guess what…ele can do nothing of what listed above , outsustain is the only type of victory ele can achieve vs other skilled opponents….so it’ about time people realize what balance means in a MMO with 9 different professions

Supreme.3164:

Balance seen in a vacuum always leads to biased suggestions

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Help-ArenaNet-balance-the-professions/6024040

Problem is, they’re not seeing enough feedback and often results in groupthink and bias (me included) because they’re placed in each profession’s respective forum. It’s like asking millionaires if they want to pay more taxes. You the answer you’re going to get. If you’re a warrior, you’re probably all for nerfing a reaper or scrapper, but if you mainly play scrapper, you’re probably not going to be so fond about that idea.

I will be making similar suggestion posts for every profession- eventually getting to making one for PvP as well, but I can’t do it without feedback from players of different backgrounds (e.g. different professions).

With you 100%. bias is a big problem when it comes to brainstorming and forming suggestions on how to “fix” and “balance” each profession.

As I said in other post: if eles healing would be SO overpowered:

1) why eles can die when they are focused or play wrong?

2) clerics 1200 (“OP) vs menders 1050 (”feel right") has only a 150 dif?

3) Why in the tournament there were 2 revs and not 2 eles for an easy unlimited 2 point cap win?

As Supreme explained: ele is a sustain via healing class. It allways has been. And it, in fact, can be countered:

1) via poison, something relatevily easy to do by corrupting regenerations, or just applying it.
2) via chill: by increasin 40% the skills cds and even our attunements.

Supreme.3164:

Henrik.7560:

Overpowered
Elemental bastion
Geomancer’s Training (only if focus!)
Cleansing water (water gm) – needs a small icd
Reduce healing scaling and add more base and/or just remove Cleric amulet… Or just give us back celestial?

Underpowered
Dagger offhand cleanse
Warhorn cleanse
Scepter dps….
Scepter speed on autos
Rebound
Fire trait line- give back might on cantrips but buff other stuff too in there….
Arcane (formerly Arcana) line is inferior to Tempest
Improve conjure weapons
Glyphs- druid ones are SO much better
Arcane utilities
Our elite skills….

ICD on cleansing water is possibly the worst suggestion ever seen, they done that already in the past and the profession got directly into the trash bin for 1 year+.
Attunement swap, every single regen application…everything synergy with that single trait.

It removes a single condition therefore it needs to have fast access to it, as conditions get applied in groups and not one at time; to ask for an ICD is simply not feasible, this in not pre-launch GW2, this is 2016 and the ICD on cleansing water did not work in 2013 when conditions where not even close to be as broken as now and we didn’t have condi rev, scrapper, druid, reaper, condi shatter chronomancer etc etc

You need multiple regen applications to remove the groups of condis that get applied to the ele with an AA speed, loads of fast clicking , attunements rotations

And geomancer’s training like …what? All this fuss because ele can have a single instance of invulnerability every 33s?

Do you even play other professions like herald and scrapper or dragon hunter? chronomancer shield?

Do you even see anything that resemble dmg avoidance/negation on ele as strong as other professions……that is not straight down healing?

Don’t take it personally but…it’s difficult for me to take seriously anybody who claim that obsidian flesh and geomancer’s training(trait that reduce CD of it) are OP.
In terms of dmg avoidance, on a scale from 1 to 10….ele is at 1 where other professions go from 7 to 10

For well over 80% of any fight ele will face tank dmg that you like it or not and in a game where a herald can block for days with shield/sword, CC/stun you with staff, absorb all inc dmg; a scrapper that can go stealth travelling all map from A to B with no problems, block every 16s, more blocks on hammer, reflect, CC lock you etc etc etc etc; where a chronomancer can block chain, distortion, stealth, clone spamming and druid ane ect ect

In a game like this…for a single instance that ele can avoid face tanking dmg for a brief 4s, to consider it OP…it’s madness…I rest my case, can’t go further than this but seriously are we even playing the same game or league division (I’m diamond)?

*P.S and in wvw I go only d/w for everything from zerg fights to roaming and with warhorn other than dodges and healing you can’t avoid dmg

Yes, I can grasp your point but that’s your opinion, I have 2k hours in pvp of ele and have tried every build out, and know it inside out. I also am aware of the comparison with other classes.
The point is, the things that need buffing are far more important than those I suggested which could be OP. Nothing should be nerfed until it gets some major buffing, it’s in a stupid place having to rely on cleric amulet to survive 1vX. mendors and sage are okay, but you will die alot quicker, especially in 2vs1.
The reason about the focus earth and its traits are because they’re far superior to any other weapon “(only focus)” perhaps the other offhands should be reworked instead of nerfing focus, because they aren’t at all as easy to use as a focus, with on demand cleanse and invulnerability almost every time and every second time you swap to earth.
What I don’t get is that they already made reaper super OP and give it more booncorrupts aka ‘ele eating weapons’, so why did they have to remove celestial as well? the current reaper would be able to put an awful amount of pressure upon cele eles.

Henrik.7560:

Yes, I can grasp your point but that’s your opinion, I have 2k hours in pvp of ele and have tried every build out, and know it inside out. I also am aware of the comparison with other classes.
The point is, the things that need buffing are far more important than those I suggested which could be OP. Nothing should be nerfed until it gets some major buffing, it’s in a stupid place having to rely on cleric amulet to survive 1vX. mendors and sage are okay, but you will die alot quicker, especially in 2vs1.
The reason about the focus earth and its traits are because they’re far superior to any other weapon “(only focus)” perhaps the other offhands should be reworked instead of nerfing focus, because they aren’t at all as easy to use as a focus, with on demand cleanse and invulnerability almost every time and every second time you swap to earth.
What I don’t get is that they already made reaper super OP and give it more booncorrupts aka ‘ele eating weapons’, so why did they have to remove celestial as well? the current reaper would be able to put an awful amount of pressure upon cele eles.

We all have “opinions”, I play from the first beta and while I always mained ele I can play decent necro (maybe this one more than decent), warrior and mesmer. I don’t think that our expertise matters, as a good game should be balanced for beginners and experts alike, specially when you play more than 2 classes. What really matters is trying to understand why something “IS” OP or “FEELS” OP, and discussing that.

For example, if you feel that cleric amulet is so strong compared to menders, why do you think that only 150 points of healing do such a difference? maybe is the toughness? but why does toughness matter so much even while fighting condition heavy classes like actual reaper? Is it really that strong vs that class?

Answering the right, objective questions is the better way to base your position.

Naurgalen.2374:

Henrik.7560:

Yes, I can grasp your point but that’s your opinion, I have 2k hours in pvp of ele and have tried every build out, and know it inside out. I also am aware of the comparison with other classes.
The point is, the things that need buffing are far more important than those I suggested which could be OP. Nothing should be nerfed until it gets some major buffing, it’s in a stupid place having to rely on cleric amulet to survive 1vX. mendors and sage are okay, but you will die alot quicker, especially in 2vs1.
The reason about the focus earth and its traits are because they’re far superior to any other weapon “(only focus)” perhaps the other offhands should be reworked instead of nerfing focus, because they aren’t at all as easy to use as a focus, with on demand cleanse and invulnerability almost every time and every second time you swap to earth.
What I don’t get is that they already made reaper super OP and give it more booncorrupts aka ‘ele eating weapons’, so why did they have to remove celestial as well? the current reaper would be able to put an awful amount of pressure upon cele eles.

For example, if you feel that cleric amulet is so strong compared to menders, why do you think that only 150 points of healing do such a difference? maybe is the toughness? but why does toughness matter so much even while fighting condition heavy classes like actual reaper? Is it really that strong vs that class?

Answering the right, objective questions is the better way to base your position.

The simple answer is the toughness. The more complicated answer is that it’s a matter of principle. Clerics encourages simpler play and has less mechanical depth. Menders supports a higher risk-reward playstyle that has more intricacy and depth because you focus on damage as well, but you don’t set up as much of arbitrary “DPS check” in larger fights that determines your ability to succeed and fail.

Looking at power damage in teamfights, cleric has more staying power in the longer term and let’s you bunker a point fairly well. Bunkering a point is a really powerful thing in this game. Menders doesn’t bunker because it has less staying power in longer fights but can handle individual burst and conditions a bit better. I don’t think clerics handles conditions that poorly since as long as you use your cleanses right away, you really have enough to deal with all the normal condi classes, with only necro coming close to being a threat. there’s also the fact that earth’s artificial sustain with clerics is something that fresh air menders wouldn’t have too.

Maybe the tempest healing and water healing aren’t that OP. Maybe it’s just earth traits like elemental shielding and geomancers freedom being too good at artificially improving sustain by simple flat damage reduction.

@Henrik, cele was a problem on every class that had access to healing, chronomnacer, Druid, warrior and engi of old, not just ele, so it was a good thing that it went away, since it just became the best choice for any build that wanted to use healing that didn’t want the kittentiness of clerics, settlers, or Magi. I do agree that buffing necro at the same time was kinda overkill for killing off the bunker meta though.

Supreme.3164:

I mean if an ele trying to win a fight vs any other profession what else is supposed to do if not outheal them?
-Should we stealth?
-Should we teleport around the map every 5s or so?
-Shoud we swap to range and kite?
-Should we outdmg them?

So what ele should have is kind of all of this but though magic and boons. Stealth on ele would be too much but having other evasion like skills such as super speed to minimize the time that it takes for you to get to your target or away from your target is very stealth like I think.

As for ports i am thinking super speed fill this roll too though it would be nice to have lighting flash a 2-3 time port before it goes on cd.

Conjurer wepon should be close to kits more so then they are now. Say a duration more then a charges system.

As for dmg agen its the same as say the more mages armor ideal where protection is stronger on an ele then other classes but in the way say fury or might works on an ele.

Henrik.7560:

Cleansing water (water gm) – needs a small icd

You do know that there was a moment where this trait got nerfed with a 5 sec ICD? Do you know what happened? Elementalists were completely dead for a full year.

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

I mean if an ele trying to win a fight vs any other profession what else is supposed to do if not outheal them?
-Should we stealth?
-Should we teleport around the map every 5s or so?
-Shoud we swap to range and kite?
-Should we outdmg them?

So what ele should have is kind of all of this but though magic and boons. Stealth on ele would be too much but having other evasion like skills such as super speed to minimize the time that it takes for you to get to your target or away from your target is very stealth like I think.

As for ports i am thinking super speed fill this roll too though it would be nice to have lighting flash a 2-3 time port before it goes on cd.

Conjurer wepon should be close to kits more so then they are now. Say a duration more then a charges system.

As for dmg agen its the same as say the more mages armor ideal where protection is stronger on an ele then other classes but in the way say fury or might works on an ele.

About Conjured Weapons, I’ll say like I say everytim, “Do you use Conjured Weapons on your build?” If you do, you’ll understand that making them like engineer kits would make them extremely broken. Conjured weapons as they are, but you probably don’t play it anyways, can be placed wisely, and using the second conjured weapon makes them reasonably powerful in their current iteration (probably only for Earth Shield, though.)

Personnally, it’s only the cooldown of the regular conjures that need to go down to 45sec cooldown, 25 seconds for Flame Axe. All the conjures cast times could be set at 1/4 seconds. Then, the skills inside the conjured weapons only need a few updates. All of them listed under:

Flame Axe

1. Add 3 bounces to the auto-attack. Reduce the might duration to 5, from 8. Gain a stack of might for every stuck enemies.

2. Update Ring of Fire to the current iteration of the Ring of Fire on dagger off-hand.

Earth Shield

1. Change the bonus Vitality to Concentration

2. Add projectile finisher to crippling shield. (3rd auto-attack)

3. Stone Sheath. Grants retaliation for 2 seconds per enemy struck (up to 6 seconds for 3 targets). Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds, down from 8 (cooldown was 4 seconds before with a bug, and it was not even that good).

4. Magnetic Surge. Add blast finisher.

5. Fortify. Convert one condition into a boon. Pulses 3 times over 3 seconds.

Lightning Hammer

1. Improve the damage of Wind Blast by 100%. (Currently 117 (0.33))

2. Shave most cast times.

3. Lightning Storm. Reduce randomness of the skill.

4. Static Field. Allow it to be ground targetted at 600 range instead of being the current point-blank AoE.

Icebow

Needs a overhaul.

1. Auto Attack : Completely rework the auto-attack. Fire a shard of ice that shatters on impact, Bleeding and dealing extra damage to enemies behind the impact. 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds, 320 (0,6) damage ; 2 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds, 384 (0.72) damage to target behind. 900 range.

2. Frost Fan : Increase chill duration to 2 seconds from 1 seconds (to compensate the chill stack limit). Struck enemies and allies now leave a regenerative mist on impact that pulse heal every seconds for 204 (0,2) over 3 seconds.

3. Ice Storm : Do an evasive leap away from target area while shooting a volatile shard of ice. Detonate midair for multiple explosions of ice. Detonates into 5 shards that cripple and bleeds.

Fiery Greatsword

Reduce cooldown to 120 seconds.

Well the only reason i don´t use FSG in sPvP is the cooldown. On 60sec i would slot it over rebound an even consider conjurer trait. Generally i have 4 elements and using a conjure like #5 is not needed. So the “lost” utility slot is to much. I woudl like to use a conjure but then i or a teammate dies or has less support because i don´t heave that extra cleanse/port/aura ….
the rework sugestion sounds OK. I guess i would use icebow with that changes .

Alekt.5803:

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

I mean if an ele trying to win a fight vs any other profession what else is supposed to do if not outheal them?
-Should we stealth?
-Should we teleport around the map every 5s or so?
-Shoud we swap to range and kite?
-Should we outdmg them?

So what ele should have is kind of all of this but though magic and boons. Stealth on ele would be too much but having other evasion like skills such as super speed to minimize the time that it takes for you to get to your target or away from your target is very stealth like I think.

As for ports i am thinking super speed fill this roll too though it would be nice to have lighting flash a 2-3 time port before it goes on cd.

Conjurer wepon should be close to kits more so then they are now. Say a duration more then a charges system.

As for dmg agen its the same as say the more mages armor ideal where protection is stronger on an ele then other classes but in the way say fury or might works on an ele.

About Conjured Weapons, I’ll say like I say everytim, “Do you use Conjured Weapons on your build?” If you do, you’ll understand that making them like engineer kits would make them extremely broken. Conjured weapons as they are, but you probably don’t play it anyways, can be placed wisely, and using the second conjured weapon makes them reasonably powerful in their current iteration (probably only for Earth Shield, though.)

Personnally, it’s only the cooldown of the regular conjures that need to go down to 45sec cooldown, 25 seconds for Flame Axe. All the conjures cast times could be set at 1/4 seconds. Then, the skills inside the conjured weapons only need a few updates. All of them listed under:

Flame Axe

1. Add 3 bounces to the auto-attack. Reduce the might duration to 5, from 8. Gain a stack of might for every stuck enemies.

2. Update Ring of Fire to the current iteration of the Ring of Fire on dagger off-hand.

Earth Shield

1. Change the bonus Vitality to Concentration

2. Add projectile finisher to crippling shield. (3rd auto-attack)

3. Stone Sheath. Grants retaliation for 2 seconds per enemy struck (up to 6 seconds for 3 targets). Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds, down from 8 (cooldown was 4 seconds before with a bug, and it was not even that good).

4. Magnetic Surge. Add blast finisher.

5. Fortify. Convert one condition into a boon. Pulses 3 times over 3 seconds.

Lightning Hammer

1. Improve the damage of Wind Blast by 100%. (Currently 117 (0.33))

2. Shave most cast times.

3. Lightning Storm. Reduce randomness of the skill.

4. Static Field. Allow it to be ground targetted at 600 range instead of being the current point-blank AoE.

Icebow

Needs a overhaul.

1. Auto Attack : Completely rework the auto-attack. Fire a shard of ice that shatters on impact, Bleeding and dealing extra damage to enemies behind the impact. 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds, 320 (0,6) damage ; 2 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds, 384 (0.72) damage to target behind. 900 range.

2. Frost Fan : Increase chill duration to 2 seconds from 1 seconds (to compensate the chill stack limit). Struck enemies and allies now leave a regenerative mist on impact that pulse heal every seconds for 204 (0,2) over 3 seconds.

3. Ice Storm : Do an evasive leap away from target area while shooting a volatile shard of ice. Detonate midair for multiple explosions of ice. Detonates into 5 shards that cripple and bleeds.

I would look forward to see all these changes.
+ Change for Frost bow 5 – now it deep freeze only for 1/4, but cast time reduced to 1/4 and velocity of projectile tripled. Fast cc for sake of rupting instead of long cc for purpose of endless training enemy would be more competetive imo.
++ Maybe flame axe 2 or 4 should have something defensive, but I’m not sure, so I share if you have idea for any of them. Or leap on 5 little longer.

What about conjure trait as it is now? its seems to be here(in fire line) to maximixe might gain conjure-sunspot-one with fire-pyromancer’s puissance, but I don’t really know if I want fire aura on conjure.

My thoughs: conjuring and maybe picking from ground conjure weapon could apply aoe blind to secure that weapon swap, therefore leaving conjure (swap out) should be break stun, becouse there isn’t anything more risky about conjures than being cc while.
And conjures should be exeption to: you can’t leave bundles when within midair.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Alekt.5803:

Jski.6180:

Supreme.3164:

I mean if an ele trying to win a fight vs any other profession what else is supposed to do if not outheal them?
-Should we stealth?
-Should we teleport around the map every 5s or so?
-Shoud we swap to range and kite?
-Should we outdmg them?

So what ele should have is kind of all of this but though magic and boons. Stealth on ele would be too much but having other evasion like skills such as super speed to minimize the time that it takes for you to get to your target or away from your target is very stealth like I think.

As for ports i am thinking super speed fill this roll too though it would be nice to have lighting flash a 2-3 time port before it goes on cd.

Conjurer wepon should be close to kits more so then they are now. Say a duration more then a charges system.

As for dmg agen its the same as say the more mages armor ideal where protection is stronger on an ele then other classes but in the way say fury or might works on an ele.

About Conjured Weapons, I’ll say like I say everytim, “Do you use Conjured Weapons on your build?” If you do, you’ll understand that making them like engineer kits would make them extremely broken. Conjured weapons as they are, but you probably don’t play it anyways, can be placed wisely, and using the second conjured weapon makes them reasonably powerful in their current iteration (probably only for Earth Shield, though.)

Personnally, it’s only the cooldown of the regular conjures that need to go down to 45sec cooldown, 25 seconds for Flame Axe. All the conjures cast times could be set at 1/4 seconds. Then, the skills inside the conjured weapons only need a few updates. All of them listed under:

Flame Axe

1. Add 3 bounces to the auto-attack. Reduce the might duration to 5, from 8. Gain a stack of might for every stuck enemies.

2. Update Ring of Fire to the current iteration of the Ring of Fire on dagger off-hand.

Earth Shield

1. Change the bonus Vitality to Concentration

2. Add projectile finisher to crippling shield. (3rd auto-attack)

3. Stone Sheath. Grants retaliation for 2 seconds per enemy struck (up to 6 seconds for 3 targets). Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds, down from 8 (cooldown was 4 seconds before with a bug, and it was not even that good).

4. Magnetic Surge. Add blast finisher.

5. Fortify. Convert one condition into a boon. Pulses 3 times over 3 seconds.

Lightning Hammer

1. Improve the damage of Wind Blast by 100%. (Currently 117 (0.33))

2. Shave most cast times.

3. Lightning Storm. Reduce randomness of the skill.

4. Static Field. Allow it to be ground targetted at 600 range instead of being the current point-blank AoE.

Icebow

Needs a overhaul.

1. Auto Attack : Completely rework the auto-attack. Fire a shard of ice that shatters on impact, Bleeding and dealing extra damage to enemies behind the impact. 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds, 320 (0,6) damage ; 2 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds, 384 (0.72) damage to target behind. 900 range.

2. Frost Fan : Increase chill duration to 2 seconds from 1 seconds (to compensate the chill stack limit). Struck enemies and allies now leave a regenerative mist on impact that pulse heal every seconds for 204 (0,2) over 3 seconds.

3. Ice Storm : Do an evasive leap away from target area while shooting a volatile shard of ice. Detonate midair for multiple explosions of ice. Detonates into 5 shards that cripple and bleeds.

I would look forward to see all these changes.
+ Change for Frost bow 5 – now it deep freeze only for 1/4, but cast time reduced to 1/4 and velocity of projectile tripled. Fast cc for sake of rupting instead of long cc for purpose of endless training enemy would be more competetive imo.
++ Maybe flame axe 2 or 4 should have something defensive, but I’m not sure, so I share if you have idea for any of them. Or leap on 5 little longer.

What about conjure trait as it is now? its seems to be here(in fire line) to maximixe might gain conjure-sunspot-one with fire-pyromancer’s puissance, but I don’t really know if I want fire aura on conjure.

My thoughs: conjuring and maybe picking from ground conjure weapon could apply aoe blind to secure that weapon swap, therefore leaving conjure (swap out) should be break stun, becouse there isn’t anything more risky about conjures than being cc while.
And conjures should be exeption to: you can’t leave bundles when within midair.

The Flame Axe is has its own defensive manoeuvre with 15 sec cooldown burning retreat. You are right about the leap on 5, but it’s consistant with the clunkiness of the warrior’s eviscerate.

The Conjurer trait needs to be combined with One with Fire. With a new trait available, it should be about cleasing a damaging condition when applying fire aura.

For the picking up, it only needs to be quicker. Discarding a conjure also interrupts channels like overloads and stomp; lets remove that too.

Discarding anything you are holding interupts channels, That is by design so it’ll never go away.

Runiir.6425:

Discarding anything you are holding interupts channels, That is by design so it’ll never go away.

I remember I wished to test it, but forgot. Though, if it runs out, it naturally dispels the conjure without interrupt.

I will post my suggestion there. I would suggest: new proffesion mechanic.
Call it Lingering Elements.
Its UI (next to f1 skills, like ranger pet managment).
Its allow us to lock effects that normaly are associated to particular element.

utilities:
glyphs:
- locking effect of glyph of harmony to always have that regen or protection,
- locking effect of glyph of renewal to always have self rally or rez+teleport for ally,
- locking air elementals or ice or earth,
- locking lesser air or lesser earth elemental,
- locking glyph of ele power,
- locking ele storm,
elite:
- rebound to have always the same aura,
traits:
- arcane precision to have always chance for the same effect on criticals
- elemental surge to have always the same effect on arcane skills,
- inscription to have always the regen or prot from glyphs,
- evasive arcana to have always the effect on dodge,
- arcane abatement to have always the same effect on fall dmg,
- arcane ressurection to have always the same effect on rez,
- unstable conduit to have always the same aura on overload.

It is full list.
Skills: 7,
Traits: 7,
Total 14.

Its giving advanced choices to already existing things.

Of course I didn’t post things that would be broken:
- like choosing elemental attunement to always grant regen or prot on any attuning,
- like choosing elemental contingency to always grant vigor or prot when struck on any attune,
- probably singularity to have always the same overload on any element would be broken,
- stats adjustements and dmg modificators that are linked to particulars attunements.
Those just didn’t pass to the list.

nearlight.3064:

Naurgalen.2374:

Henrik.7560:

Yes, I can grasp your point but that’s your opinion, I have 2k hours in pvp of ele and have tried every build out, and know it inside out. I also am aware of the comparison with other classes.
The point is, the things that need buffing are far more important than those I suggested which could be OP. Nothing should be nerfed until it gets some major buffing, it’s in a stupid place having to rely on cleric amulet to survive 1vX. mendors and sage are okay, but you will die alot quicker, especially in 2vs1.
The reason about the focus earth and its traits are because they’re far superior to any other weapon “(only focus)” perhaps the other offhands should be reworked instead of nerfing focus, because they aren’t at all as easy to use as a focus, with on demand cleanse and invulnerability almost every time and every second time you swap to earth.
What I don’t get is that they already made reaper super OP and give it more booncorrupts aka ‘ele eating weapons’, so why did they have to remove celestial as well? the current reaper would be able to put an awful amount of pressure upon cele eles.

For example, if you feel that cleric amulet is so strong compared to menders, why do you think that only 150 points of healing do such a difference? maybe is the toughness? but why does toughness matter so much even while fighting condition heavy classes like actual reaper? Is it really that strong vs that class?

Answering the right, objective questions is the better way to base your position.

The simple answer is the toughness. The more complicated answer is that it’s a matter of principle. Clerics encourages simpler play and has less mechanical depth. Menders supports a higher risk-reward playstyle that has more intricacy and depth because you focus on damage as well, but you don’t set up as much of arbitrary “DPS check” in larger fights that determines your ability to succeed and fail.

Looking at power damage in teamfights, cleric has more staying power in the longer term and let’s you bunker a point fairly well. Bunkering a point is a really powerful thing in this game. Menders doesn’t bunker because it has less staying power in longer fights but can handle individual burst and conditions a bit better. I don’t think clerics handles conditions that poorly since as long as you use your cleanses right away, you really have enough to deal with all the normal condi classes, with only necro coming close to being a threat. there’s also the fact that earth’s artificial sustain with clerics is something that fresh air menders wouldn’t have too.

Maybe the tempest healing and water healing aren’t that OP. Maybe it’s just earth traits like elemental shielding and geomancers freedom being too good at artificially improving sustain by simple flat damage reduction.

While Im not fully convinced that eles are overperforming (you sacrifice ALL dmg + you are still susceptible to “boon corruption + smart condi burst” + eles can still be killed as was shown in the tournament) I do agree that their bunkering ability is really solid and in PvP that makes bunker-healbots a really nice addition. (even if for me, not really fun to play)

And while Im not sure that the flat dmg reduction is that strong (protection can be corrupted) I do think that its in the interaction of many things what makes eles the meta bunker. Even the classes selected for the meta, as -IMHO-, more condition classes would make bunker-healbot eles less efficient.

Still, I think there is ar least one thing that should be changed and its the CD red for earth skills trait. Invul in short CD is cheesy and has no counter-play. That alone should make it weaker to conditions as that is the natural weakness for having low HP when selecting clerics.

Here is my thoughts on the matter.

First off, the biggest thing killing build diversity in pvp right now is there is too much aoe and random conditions being thrown around in a fight. This makes anything but bunkers with lots of condi removal harder to play. I think if they nerf dh traps and reduce some of the damage from reaper it has the possibility to open up d/d play again.

As for scepter, it simply doesn’t do enough damage. Dragon tooth is crippled by its delayed damage and is only used to force dodge rolls. Shatterstone is just a weaker version of dragons tooth. Water trident needs a reduced cooldown. Dust devil is unreliable at times. And all of the auto attacks seem like a waste to cast. So basically you are left with attuning to air and using pheonix for any type of damage.