Stationary targets…what a great way of testing what real dps is…NOT.
Go into wvw and see how many of those actually hit (or even if you manage a cast without interuption).
And yet the devs have seen fit to nerf ele even more because of Raids and non-moving targets. Thanks for the video proving that you can manage decent numbers on something that doesn’t fight back at all…as that’s why the rest of us got nerfed.
WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.
Stationary targets…what a great way of testing what real dps is…NOT.
In real raid scenarios it gets a lot worse really fast.
So in the rarest part of the game?
Raid balancing is not a good reason for things any more and is still the smallest part of GW2. Better to look at how ele is doing in spvp wvw and open world pve the real 3 pillars of gw2.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
No offense but WvW and PvP have dwindled down to such a small population now. PvE is unfortunately most likely the biggest of the 3 now by far with raiding being a bit portion of it. If there wasn’t a cap it would be by far the biggest portion of the game , but it is so it’s not as big as it could actually be (obviously for good reason but just saying).
There should definitely be splits between pve and wvw/pvp , note I said wvw/pvp – wvw should not be lumped into PvE at all since it’s not true PvE.
Stationary targets…what a great way of testing what real dps is…NOT.
In real raid scenarios it gets a lot worse really fast.
So in the rarest part of the game?
Raid balancing is not a good reason for things any more and is still the smallest part of GW2. Better to look at how ele is doing in spvp wvw and open world pve the real 3 pillars of gw2.
Nope, in the small part of the game, which is what matters in the largest part of the game, which is PvE. Deal with it already, this is a PvE game.
No offense but WvW and PvP have dwindled down to such a small population now. PvE is unfortunately most likely the biggest of the 3 now by far with raiding being a bit portion of it. If there wasn’t a cap it would be by far the biggest portion of the game , but it is so it’s not as big as it could actually be (obviously for good reason but just saying).
There should definitely be splits between pve and wvw/pvp , note I said wvw/pvp – wvw should not be lumped into PvE at all since it’s not true PvE.
Raiding is a small portion off pve, less and less people raid each week with the lfg now filled with people selling raids or opening instances..
No offense but WvW and PvP have dwindled down to such a small population now. PvE is unfortunately most likely the biggest of the 3 now by far with raiding being a bit portion of it. If there wasn’t a cap it would be by far the biggest portion of the game , but it is so it’s not as big as it could actually be (obviously for good reason but just saying).
There should definitely be splits between pve and wvw/pvp , note I said wvw/pvp – wvw should not be lumped into PvE at all since it’s not true PvE.
Raiding is a small portion off pve, less and less people raid each week with the lfg now filled with people selling raids or opening instances..
Wrong. People just form groups now and dont rely on the bads that stalk the LFG. Get a clue.
No offense but WvW and PvP have dwindled down to such a small population now. PvE is unfortunately most likely the biggest of the 3 now by far with raiding being a bit portion of it. If there wasn’t a cap it would be by far the biggest portion of the game , but it is so it’s not as big as it could actually be (obviously for good reason but just saying).
There should definitely be splits between pve and wvw/pvp , note I said wvw/pvp – wvw should not be lumped into PvE at all since it’s not true PvE.
Raiding is a small portion off pve, less and less people raid each week with the lfg now filled with people selling raids or opening instances..
By far much larger than PvP and WvW now , the ONLY reason and the ONLY reason WvW is even more populated AT THE MOMENT is the backpiece and the sublime chest piece , once people get that it will decline literally back to what it was.
PvP the same, as you have noticed already almost all of the top players have quit (even banned for match fixing) , PvP is in a horrible state and probably will not be revived.
PoF is there only hope at an attempt at reviving both WvW / PvP but since it looks like those game modes will go for the most part unchanged, I don’t think so.
PvE is by far the largest portion of the game , we’re not talking just raids here when balancing PvE but fractals, meta runs , raids. Raids still is a large portion of why people in PvE even log on still (legendary armor, ascended , skins etc).
You’ve said it and it doesn’t make it true. If you nerf it, the skill becomes useless. It’s only function is damage, it has long casting time and it roots you in place. It’s basically the most risk you can take in a fight, all in a single skill. It has to be strong or it will never be used.
You’ve said it and it doesn’t make it true. If you nerf it, the skill becomes useless. It’s only function is damage, it has long casting time and it roots you in place. It’s basically the most risk you can take in a fight, all in a single skill. It has to be strong or it will never be used.
And same goes for ele as a class.
Right, keep Meteor as is and keep nerfing everything else like Overload.
Meteor damage has been used as a justification for nerfing Ele so many times already. Just nerf that and buffs other skills/traits instead. Ele damage needs to be brought down, sustain needs to be brought up. Nerf Meteor, and buffs HP/defensive skills. And restore random nerf like the Air/Fire/Earth Overload.
It’s not like staff ele is useful anywhere else other than PvE (Which balance doesn’t matter). If Anet has ever intended to make it viable again in other game modes, they could’ve done it long ago or at least reworks it bit by bit.
The odds of bringing d/d back to its glory day in PvP is much higher than anet giving a second purpose for staff ele other than dps LOL.
Staff is still really good in WvW for the water field and now the improved geyser.
With the upcoming specs and all the boom-removal, staff might be even better in WvW for all its area CC. Not to mention all the big hits from weaver and the option to have your fire #1 and #2 skills while keeping the water #4 and #5…
Staff is still really good in WvW for the water field and now the improved geyser.
With the upcoming specs and all the boom-removal, staff might be even better in WvW for all its area CC. Not to mention all the big hits from weaver and the option to have your fire #1 and #2 skills while keeping the water #4 and #5…
Staff in wvw and pvp could be even better if they don’t have the “Top dps” rationale from Raid as a reason for nerf unrelated stuffs.
Of that anet made Tempest staff actually “OK” before they took out celestial and all other healing amulets in PvP. It’s just the direction of PvP is regressing back to “heartseeker” thief type of burst and dps-only meta. Also there are just better weapon alternatives when it comes to support ele. imho they have to rework the staff mechanics to make it playable.
I don’t quite remember staff ele get nerfed since you quit PvP. The spec was just kitten and get kittentier when HoT power-creeping hit the game.
Stationary targets…what a great way of testing what real dps is…NOT.
In real raid scenarios it gets a lot worse really fast.
So in the rarest part of the game?
Raid balancing is not a good reason for things any more and is still the smallest part of GW2. Better to look at how ele is doing in spvp wvw and open world pve the real 3 pillars of gw2.
Nope, in the small part of the game, which is what matters in the largest part of the game, which is PvE. Deal with it already, this is a PvE game.
PvE is too general of a phrase to put to raids and is a way to hid that raids are a super small part of the game played by an even smaller group of ppl. Get over your self most of gw2 is open world pve (not raids) and pvp (both spvp and wvw). That is the real stander of how good things are and how FUN things things to use the only real important thing in a VIDEO GAME.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
There are more people that spvp and wvw than people who raid and do high level fotm. Do you guys even lift. I mean pve in general has lots of players. But raid players well you can’t really sell emo kids yelling on ts. Wait you might can if anet switch esports to emo sports. RAID can be the next esports, lets stop wvw and spvp!
Cause raid dps is seriously the only thing in guild wars 2 right!
Min Maxing dps does not matter in spvp,
it does not matter in wvw,
it does not matter in Dungeons
it does not matter in Fractals
it does not matter in open world pve,
it does not matter in open world bosses.
33k ‘rotations’ matters in 1 game format – raiding . A format played by a fraction of the game population. Take your 33k raiding setup and try spvp, you will get melted, damage per second is not the be all and end all of skilled play.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Min Maxing dps does not matter in spvp,
it does not matter in wvw,
it does not matter in Dungeons
it does not matter in Fractals
it does not matter in open world pve,
it does not matter in open world bosses.
Wrong. It matters everywhere. That’s why there are builds in spvp and wvw as there are in pve. Optimized builds in dungeons, fractals and open pve mean smoother and faster clears with less chances for failure. The only point where you’re right are the world bosses… and there you get carried by people with optimized builds. You don’t need to minmax in order to succeed. By the way this applies to raiding as well. But you benefit from doing so, regardless of the game mode and the specific activity.
Min Maxing dps does not matter in spvp,
it does not matter in wvw,
it does not matter in Dungeons
it does not matter in Fractals
it does not matter in open world pve,
it does not matter in open world bosses.
Wrong. It matters everywhere. That’s why there are builds in spvp and wvw as there are in pve. Optimized builds in dungeons, fractals and open pve mean smoother and faster clears with less chances for failure. The only point where you’re right are the world bosses… and there you get carried by people with optimized builds. You don’t need to minmax in order to succeed. By the way this applies to raiding as well. But you benefit from doing so, regardless of the game mode and the specific activity.
you disagree then go on to say ‘You don’t need to minmax in order to succeed.’ which is exactly my point.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
lets look at an example where we push the variables to the end of the spectrum to expose the issue with people imposing optimal on people:
1. Imaginary build, you spam 1 key – best dps in game by a country mile, clearly meta for speed runs and pure dps role in instances.
2. Imaginary build 2, complex rotations, lots of skills.
MinMax/Meta would be 1, the vast majority of players find 2 is fun, 1 is not. Now what about the person who kicks someone else because they are not using the meta now – best for the game and community, i think not.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
you disagree then go on to say ‘You don’t need to minmax in order to succeed.’ which is exactly my point.
No, it isn’t. “You don’t need” isn’t the same as “it doesn’t matter”. You don’t need running water in your home either, meaning you can survive without it. But you’d feel miserable without it, wouldn’t you? Meaning it sure as hell does matter, right?
lets look at an example where we push the variables to the end of the spectrum to expose the issue with people imposing optimal on people:
1. Imaginary build, you spam 1 key – best dps in game by a country mile, clearly meta for speed runs and pure dps role in instances.
2. Imaginary build 2, complex rotations, lots of skills.
MinMax/Meta would be 1, the vast majority of players find 2 is fun, 1 is not. Now what about the person who kicks someone else because they are not using the meta now – best for the game and community, i think not.
Funny you mention this. It’s exaggerated, but it’s exactly what happens in the game. Ever since Fresh Air staff died, the meta is shifting progressively toward simpler to play builds. The hugely popular condi builds are all much simpler and now they are also much more effective than the complex FA builds. Will everyone kick you for running a sub-optimal build? Obviously not. But the vast majority will prefer you to play an effective build. Understandable, isn’t it?
Its deliberately exaggerated to extrapolate out and demonstrate the flawed reasoning from a gameplay perspective. your using the word ‘effective’ to mask the problem, the word is ‘optimal’ which is ofc the issue. Telling someone to use a build they find boring, that’s not conducive to fun gameplay. as long as the build is viable, it should be ok and people have no business telling other people otherwise.
I can give you a concrete example, i just completed a fractal as sceptre/focus with a raider whocomplained in chat that I was using a pet, it was a waste of dps he said. That’s true from a minmax perspective, but from my perspective i loved the fact twice i saved a ‘/gg’ by popping my stone ele so i could rez be 2nd last man standing. the guy didn’t get it, and was quite frankly rude. Now this is anecdotal, most raiders are not like that, but it demonstrates a certain mind-set and a failure to understand that fun is subjective. In his mind fun is using ‘/gg’ when things got tough – the equivalent to raid call to wipe.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
- VIABLE: <- should be acceptable to everyone, if its viable you have no business telling people to pick other builds if they are happy with the build.
- META <- required for events that are designed for min maxing, i.e tightly tuned raid events.
No-one wants a game where everyone runs about in the same build, and that’s what happens when people try to force others into a small subset of builds. dull dull dull and stagnation. See WOW for how that goes.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Except there isn’t such tuning anywhere in the game. People are low-manning raid encounters, meaning you clearly can be suboptimal and still do it. This is only normal. The encounters are designed to be doable after making mistakes, even losing players. This applies even to raid CMs.
And on the flip side, you’re always better off using the optimal builds/compositions than using the “viable” ones. For one simple reason – it minimizes the chances of failure. The faster you kill the enemies, the less mechanics you have to deal with, the less damage you have to take or avoid, and the smoother the clear. Nobody can tell you what to play. But just like you’re entitled to your choices, other players are entitled to their opinions about your choices. You cannot force others to accept you and play with you more than they can force you to play the meta build.
‘And on the flip side, you’re always better off using the optimal builds/compositions’
Wrong, ^^ Faster and less risky is a reward based mentality where all that matters is the most efficient form of win.
There is more than 1 mindset involved in gaming, not everyone cares that they took x minutes longer to get a reward or needs all risk removed, many prefer more dynamic game play over normalization, and play in games to explore and maximizes their skills with a build – that’s been the GW for over a decade and one of the things that differentiates it from the other mmorpg out there.
Nothing wrong with having your opinions about other peoples builds, there is everything wrong with criticizing those builds if they are viable, that’s missing the point of gaming.
‘You cannot force others to accept you and play with you more than they can force you to play the meta build.’
exactly so, and yet people try to do it.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Wrong, ^^ Faster and less risky is a reward based mentality where all that matters is the most efficient form of win.
There is more than 1 mindset involved in gaming, not everyone cares that they took x minutes longer to get a reward or needs all risk removed, many prefer more dynamic game play over normalization, and play in games to explore and maximizes their skills with a build – that’s been the GW for over a decade and one of the things that differentiates it from the other mmorpg out there.
There’s nothing wrong in trying to explore your builds and maximize your efficiency with an off-meta build. Except in group content. You can’t assume each and every player out there will be OK with being dragged down and facing content made deliberately harder for your own fun. Sure, there are those who don’t care. And those who would genuinely enjoy it. But there are also those who want to be efficient and you have to respect their wishes. They are every bit as valid and as relevant as yours. So no, it is totally fine to request your team mates to play meta. It is exactly as valid as wanting to play your way. This simply is their way.
Wrong, ^^ Faster and less risky is a reward based mentality where all that matters is the most efficient form of win.
There is more than 1 mindset involved in gaming, not everyone cares that they took x minutes longer to get a reward or needs all risk removed, many prefer more dynamic game play over normalization, and play in games to explore and maximizes their skills with a build – that’s been the GW for over a decade and one of the things that differentiates it from the other mmorpg out there.
There’s nothing wrong in trying to explore your builds and maximize your efficiency with an off-meta build. Except in group content. You can’t assume each and every player out there will be OK with being dragged down and facing content made deliberately harder for your own fun. Sure, there are those who don’t care. And those who would genuinely enjoy it. But there are also those who want to be efficient and you have to respect their wishes. They are every bit as valid and as relevant as yours. So no, it is totally fine to request your team mates to play meta. It is exactly as valid as wanting to play your way. This simply is their way.
wrong your applying ‘dragging down’ as a strawman/negative. Learning is not negative, and good game players get that its all good gameplay (because guess what, at some point they learn too). Moreover, mmorpg is all about group play, and part of that gameplay is experimenting with builds – where exactly do you think metas are learned?
in any case the definition of viable really tells the story:
‘capable of working successfully; feasible’
You can ask a team mate to play a build, but as long as what they play is viable, you either respect their decision and their gameplay or you don’t.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
You don’t get it. Asking someone to play a certain build is no different than expecting someone to accept your build. You’re not entitled to being universally accepted. Just like you want to play something specific another person wants something different. That’s what’s good about MMOs. You can simply leave and find a group that suits your likings.
Well, makes no sense to leave my own group, does it?
Well you are now shifting things to the owner of a party being advertised. If that advert said, expect build Y or X the that’s a different thing/discussion. If it didn’t then its the same discussion, if they have a viable build, then you give the respect you expect to receive – its common courtesy.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
I’ve said it before, we need to nerf Meteor Shower. That single skill has been used as the “reason” to nerf Ele a bunch of time. Just remove the skills and suddenly they will realize how over-nerfed Ele is.
It’s funny they nerfed Tempest so much that a base Ele can achieve similar DP by just camping Fire.
Removing/Reworking Meteor Shower is the first step to have a balance discussion about Ele DPS.
How about no?
They already killed meteor shower by putting that stupid ICD in it.
Power Ele gets nerfed over and over and over every other patch, and people still whine about it…
Power Ele is already dead in wvw. There is no need for more nerfs.
Also that vid… that’s with perma alacrity, quickness, war banners, 25might, fury and other crap. Those are like the ideal buffs to have, you’d never see all those on one guy in wvw or fractals or pretty much anywhere unless its super coordinated and for a short duration……
Look at how effective someone is in a full Soldiers set.
Look at how effective someone is in a full Dire set.
Nice balance.
Also that vid… that’s with perma alacrity, quickness, war banners, 25might, fury and other crap. Those are like the ideal buffs to have, you’d never see all those on one guy in wvw or fractals or pretty much anywhere unless its super coordinated and for a short duration……
That’s standard boon setup. It is reasonably valid in meta comp parties, found in both fractals and raids. Not in WvW, obviously, as there the focus is primarily on defence.
Also that vid… that’s with perma alacrity, quickness, war banners, 25might, fury and other crap. Those are like the ideal buffs to have, you’d never see all those on one guy in wvw or fractals or pretty much anywhere unless its super coordinated and for a short duration……
That’s standard boon setup. It is reasonably valid in meta comp parties, found in both fractals and raids. Not in WvW, obviously, as there the focus is primarily on defence.
It’s not in wvw because in wvw all those boons are stripped or converted into condis, and your stand still and cast is interupted by enemies.
But still, nerf meteor shower, makes perfect sense for wvw where enemies actually move, interupt, boon strip/curse, etc…/sarcasm
Staff ele doesn’t need any more nerfing for anything other than raids. And the easiest way to nerf it for raids is just have a field effect around bosses that has a chance of reflecting meteors onto players.
WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.
It doesn’t need any nerfs in raids too. If anything, since MS ICD nerf staff has been lacking in raids. It used to have a very small advantage on a few specific bosses, but the margins were so small you could just run Sc/W and not notice any difference. Of course, now Sc/W got completely destroyed and that brings Staff back to the top. But the thing is, it’s a very complicated rotation featuring 3 (!!!) conjures and relying on nobody stealing them, on top of all the “usual” assumptions for good ele dps. In practice most staff eles will get out-dps’ed by a decent condi ps now. The dps berserker will completely blow away the rest, except the very best of us. So… ele is pretty dead for raiding right now. Unless you count sacrificing group dps to get Gale Song procs on Sloth and “Rebound!” on Xera as “being competitive”.
