Beta is not about you
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You don’t seem to understand. Betas are a tool to gather feedback. They are charging people for their feedback. If it was an Open beta, then it would be a whole other story.
But they aren’t charging players for feedback. If you buy the expansion a little early, they give you an additional ability to participate in beta events. You don’t pay to participate, you don’t have to participate, and if you _do_participate, you don’t have to give them any feedback.
Ok, maybe worded wrong, but what benefit is there in not participating in a beta to you know, kittening test the game and suggest feedback. that is the core concept of a beta. Sorry for wanting a voice in how the future of a game I like is handled. I guess i am just a crackpot conspiracy theory nutcase if I think Betas should be used for their kittening purpose and should be open and free to the public instead of behind a paywall…which is anti-consumerist bullkitten.
Ok first of all, the concept of an “open beta” is pretty recent. For most of gaming’s short history, absolutely all testing was done behind closed doors. If you aren’t an employee or friend of an employee, the first time you would ever see the game would be when you bought the final product in a store, or maaaaaybe at a convention. There’s nothing “anti-consumerist” about how ANet has chosen to allow limited testing to the general population. You are not entitled to beta test everything before it comes to market.
As for your main point, there’s no benefit to the player in not testing the beta besides using your time differently. I’m not saying you shouldn’t test it and give feedback, I’m just saying you aren’t obligated to. That’s why this is fair: ANet hasn’t sneakily sold you a defective product, but rather is giving you the option to try out an explicitly unfinished product and, if you’d like, give them pointers on how to fix it. You aren’t obligated to play, and ANet isn’t obligated to give you a product that’s working perfectly.
As I’ve mentioned before, game development is an iterative process and it involves careful and strategic use of company resources. I’m concerned about the tone they used to announce the changes, but the changes themselves are fine for now. Because I don’t expect a beta to be perfect, or for all its problems to be fixed instantly. Because I’m vaguely aware of how game development works. Almost no one else here seems to be, though. You guys want everything NOW NOW NOW, but that simply isn’t possible.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)
You can also provide feedback without participating in the beta, just read the skill/trait descriptions and watch the videos. In fact this is what most people do, even if they have made a tempest and played with it for a bit.
[KING] Alpha Cas
So the forums contain:
“highly engaged players” = players who understand the class due to experience and dedication“highly competitive players” = Players who play the class and understand viability
“highly experimental players” = Players who are good at trying new things and figuring out if they work
“but that does not necessarily indicate that there are not a lot of players in game who are enjoying themselves.”
AKA People can still have fun with something that is not viable because the game is easy in pve, so they should cater to this larger playerbase that just cares if a concept is new and shinny, not if its good.Yeah, think about this. And re-access.
You’re arguing with the person that believes everyone should be able to get unique rewards from challenging content even if one cannot complete it on a standard level of difficulty.
Since it seems pretty obvious that time-value-of-money is not being considered here I’m going to elaborate. Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with. Money also can be invested with the expectation of a higher return. Because of this, if I spend 50USD today it’s more valuable than if I spend 50USD 6 months from today, and if Anet receives 50USD today it’s more valuable than if they receive it 6 months from today.
In other words, if you prepurchase a game it costs you more money and makes the publisher more money than if you buy it after its release. Since prepurchasing is required to access beta tests, players are being charged extra to beta test. Therefore it is valid to call these beta tests paid betas.
Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with.
The annual inflation rate for the last year in the US is 0.2% (link). So each month your money is worth 0.017% less, i.e. you lose 0.017 cents per 100 cents. I’m sure that’s somehow relevant.
Edit: If the expansion launches in 1 year, people will be buying the expansion for only $49.90, because that’s how much the current $50 will be valued at this rate.
[KING] Alpha Cas
(edited by Alphard.6529)
Willfull ignorance is not an excuse to ignore that it is a paid beta. Anet knew people would pre purchase to get into the beta. Ergo it is a paid beta/early access what ever you want to call it.
You don’t get to make up your own definitions for things, and paid beta is a paid beta, and this is not one because you cannot pay for the beta access alone.
Holy hell kitten how can you still try to defense your undefendable point? How much of a white knight can you be?
Arenanet said: “hey if you want access to this beta you’ll have to pay us through preordering the game. There is no other way to access this beta.”
That’s the VERY DEFINITION OF A PAID BETA.
Yeah, you’d don’t get to make up your own definition of things.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
Since it seems pretty obvious that time-value-of-money is not being considered here I’m going to elaborate. Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with. Money also can be invested with the expectation of a higher return. Because of this, if I spend 50USD today it’s more valuable than if I spend 50USD 6 months from today, and if Anet receives 50USD today it’s more valuable than if they receive it 6 months from today.
In other words, if you prepurchase a game it costs you more money and makes the publisher more money than if you buy it after its release. Since prepurchasing is required to access beta tests, players are being charged extra to beta test. Therefore it is valid to call these beta tests paid betas.
This is only true if that $50 wouldn’t otherwise just sit in my checking account for 6 months, which it would. Additionally, preordering gets you an extra character slot if you had an existing account and access to the base game if you don’t, making preordering additionally beneficial to the consumer.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Arenanet said: “hey if you want access to this beta you’ll have to pay us through preordering the game. There is no other way to access this beta.”
That’s the VERY DEFINITION OF A PAID BETA.
Yeah, you’d don’t get to make up your own definition of things.
Yes, this is exactly the “if I buy the expansion I’m buying the base game twice!” argument all over again.
[KING] Alpha Cas
Since it seems pretty obvious that time-value-of-money is not being considered here I’m going to elaborate. Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with. Money also can be invested with the expectation of a higher return. Because of this, if I spend 50USD today it’s more valuable than if I spend 50USD 6 months from today, and if Anet receives 50USD today it’s more valuable than if they receive it 6 months from today.
In other words, if you prepurchase a game it costs you more money and makes the publisher more money than if you buy it after its release. Since prepurchasing is required to access beta tests, players are being charged extra to beta test. Therefore it is valid to call these beta tests paid betas.
Beh, economically, maybe, but in practical terms it’s a very flimsy reasoning. It’s not like I would have been spending the money on anything else, it just would have sat in the bank. If ANet wants to reinvest my money and make a better game with the pennies they make on the difference, then more power to them.
Arenanet said: “hey if you want access to this beta you’ll have to pay us through preordering the game. There is no other way to access this beta.”
That’s not true, there are other ways into the beta, pre-ordering just guarantees access.
That’s the VERY DEFINITION OF A PAID BETA.
No, the definition of a paid beta is a beta where you pay for the beta. They do not have the option to pay for the beta, just the option to pay for the game, and the beta comes free with that. I paid beta is where they say “pay us $X and you get beta access, and that’s it.” Some Kickstarter games do that.
Yes, this is exactly the “if I buy the expansion I’m buying the base game twice!” argument all over again.
Exactly.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
“Why did the Tempest only get numbers, when [other class] got all this other great stuff in BWE2?”*
I’ve seen this sort of comment come up far too often in the response to the BWE2 Tempest changes, but in case it needs spelling out, the beta is not about you. It is about improving the game as a whole, and testing various features as they move towards launch. They do not owe you a fun and fully workable class, not until launch day of HoT. That is what you paid for, for the Tempest to be fun on launch day, and not a minute before. Anything else they offer you is bonus.
So if you aren’t satisfied with where the Tempest is at right now, that’s fine. Certainly let them know that, and explain why you don’t like it, and how they can change it. That’s all useful feedback.
But if you feel upset that the Tempest is not great right now, then too bad. If you are upset because some classes got more substantial changes between BWE1 and 2, then too bad. It is not their job, nor should it be, to make sure that every class is equally represented at all phases in beta. Count your blessings, people who main four of the classes haven’t even gotten to try theirs yet.
As the BWEs move forward, class balancing will move at a constantly shifting pace. Some betas, class A will see significant improvements, and class B will see relatively nonsense tweaks. Others, class A will get very little and class B will get some major stuff. Just because a class only gets minor tweaks between two beta windows, does not mean that they have given up on the class or that it won’t eventually see major changes, it just means that the sort of development time that it would take to make those major changes is not available for that beta window, or that other projects take priority.
That is a GOOD thing, to do otherwise would mean wasting a lot of time and attention trying to make sure that if child 1 gets a toy, child 2 must get an equally cool toy or he’ll throw a fit in the store. Sometimes people need to grow up and learn to be patient.
If the changes they are making to the Tempest in BWE2 do not appeal to you, that’s fine. You don’t have to play the Tempest over that weekend if you totally don’t like the class. Play a standard kit Elementalitst in the new content, see how that works out. Or maybe try out one of the other classes, BWE2 will likely have all the BWE1 stuff, plus probably 2-4 new classes, and Glint, so give those a go. Or if you absolutely can’t be bothered to test out HoT in anything less than a perfect Tempest, then just play the normal game that weekend. They’re all valid options.
But the point is, the beta weekends are not about you, they are not about making sure that your intended class is the absolute most important thing at every phase in development. The betas are there to test the game, and to make ALL the classes and content the best it can be, and that process is not always evenly paced. Get over it.
*and for the record, the reason is likely because they’d been working on a lot of that other stuff already, and just had to pull the trigger on it, but they don’t have any major Tempest changes ready at the moment, but are certainly working on it at some level.
Thank you so much
I almost felt these forums were a lost cause.
The funny thing is that when you become a “Beater” you’re going to have problems with things, and ppl think the devs are idiots, and they don’t know how much work it takes to make a line. And funnily enough I voice my opinion on changes and I get accused by people saying, “It’s Not A Numbers Problem”, which yea I agree to a point but wiping the spec and starting from scratch, which I then reply “That Is A Numbers Problem”.
The problem is that Anet put a huge amount of effort into making nothing because the tempest is a clone of the meta d/d build.
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