Guild Wars 2

Goodday elementalist subcommunity…

My team and I have recently been theorycrafting about our setup and what we want to use… Long story short, no one wants to play a guardian – And I have found out that I am way too much of a spammer when it comes to playing a guardian (popping virtues too often, abusing shouts etc.), however, I am quite able to play an ele since my experience on it is somewhat better…

I tried a different approach with the current build

So far so good, I found out that Necromancers (funny enough my main) are a huge pain with their boon corruption, as are thieves stealing your boons (mostly regeneration), a problem I have on guardians as well – though my question is, can an Elementalist build “replace” a Guardian effectively, and if so, is there something I missed within my current build?

I know that you miss the party wide stability on an elementalist, but aside from that, I notice insane regeneration (Warriors become way more potent thanks to the regen output plus their signet), and you are somewhat more mobile than a Guardian as well… The control with staff (Earth #4 and Wind #5) are extremely usefull as well in my opinion, though I could be mistaken of course…

Looking forward to an answer and help improving whatever I can improve!

I don’t have experience with guardians, so I can’t really say if you’ll be able to replace them or not. What I can say is that if you’re aiming to boost your party’s survival by sharing boons you might wanna try transfering 10 points from arcana to earth so you may get rock solid and have a nice source of group stability, you may also get powerful aura as your water grandmaster and elemental shielding as earth’s adept, that means you’ll be sharing your auras and protection with your allies.

Dolores.5471:

I don’t have experience with guardians, so I can’t really say if you’ll be able to replace them or not. What I can say is that if you’re aiming to boost your party’s survival by sharing boons you might wanna try transfering 10 points from arcana to earth so you may get rock solid and have a nice source of group stability, you may also get powerful aura as your water grandmaster and elemental shielding as earth’s adept, that means you’ll be sharing your auras and protection with your allies.

Thanks a lot for the answer

The choice of dropping EA is indeed not a tough one anymore since I got plenty of condition removal and spike heals without needing the dodge in water, so I think I’ll live with that… The stability would indeed ensure both my team and me some better stomps, of which I quite like as an idea

Currently we are looking at This build

Auras that can be obtained by staff are Magnetic Aura (Earth #3) and Frost Aura (Water #4+Blast)… Should I swap out one of my cantrips for say Arcane Wave to ensure a more stable way of getting Frost Aura?
And should I get Arcane Resurrection as well? It sounds like a valid option, and ressing within Air or Earth (with the stability as well as the reflects) comes off as somewhat easier…

Yes getting arcane wave could be a good idea for additional blasts, there is also arcane brilliance but it would mean losing ER which seems to be your emergency condi cleanse (and goes very well with rock solid). I never really tried arcane ressurection, but I guess it’s a valid option for an aura sharing build, perhaps you could try it for a while and tell us if you liked it better than elemental attunement…. but honestly dropping the latter is a very tough choice.

Haha, yea, I don’t think I will drop ER any time soon for Arcane Brilliance…
Despite it working wonders in PvE, I am sincerely doubting my survivability without it

Dropping Elemental Attunement is indeed a tough one, I usually rely a lot on the regen, protection and swiftness it puts out, but maybe I can work my way around it by paying close attention when switching from water (regen), sharing auras for protection and swiftness by wind #4…

I will try it out and share my experiences… Our team is actually on a short notice since we (finally) entered the ESL weekly tournament, so it is gonna be exciting
… That is, unless our 5th shorts his problems out soon, for we might be in a pinch if he does not :P

Heads up, aura sharing doesn’t actually work on the frost aura from blasting an ice field. The aura is acquired by the combo itself. Even without aura sharing your allies will receive whatever boons you get from auras when you grant them a frost aura with a blast.

That said, both other water GM traits are significantly better on staff imo.

Small update; everything went wrong this evening… As in, literally everything… Long story short, chaos within the team at the last notice (5th could not play and 2 subs were unable to join) and after it probably the most horrible pugs in history in 2 matches…

I could not test the build at all, though I made some minor tweaks to it… I am really bumped out by all the stuff that has happened within this whole evening and just had to log off entirely because I was simply not enjoying the situation much… I might be able to give some actual conclusions later this week, but this evening and maybe tomorrow even I don’t think I’ll be doing testing, or will be even playing… it depends, but really, this evening has bumped me out majorly…

Gokil.2543:

Heads up, aura sharing doesn’t actually work on the frost aura from blasting an ice field. The aura is acquired by the combo itself. Even without aura sharing your allies will receive whatever boons you get from auras when you grant them a frost aura with a blast.

That said, both other water GM traits are significantly better on staff imo.

I’ve noticed, I did some testing with the dummies in HotM – testing Auras and the ressing, and neither felt as if they did very good… I will try to compare Aquatic Benevolence to Cleansing Water, since I have a steady amount of condition removal as wel speak…

If anything though, if someone has other tips and ideas, feel free to share… Maybe I’ll be somewhat more enthusiastic tomorrow, and in luck for having a proper team to test stuff… For now though, I am sad to say that I could not come to a conclusion…

Until ele can give AoE stability and instant condi clear not reliant on being in water, I’m not sure they will ever replace a guardian despite the great healing potential.

Use runes of water and keep evasive arcana. 0/0/4/4/6 is what I run, and the AoE blind and water dodges are still very important. I use sigil of battle/ energy as stacking might is still pretty important even on a cleric ele. That’s on D/D anyway.

With staff, I run 0/0/4/6/4 and use runes of Dwayna(for the AoE regen which removes conditions from party). Removing conditions is better in PvP than Benevolence because when you keep removing conditions, you are effectively raising your healing% on your team anyway. I don’t like Renewal that much, because I can’t use it when I want. Sometimes it may go on cooldown and everyone is full health or in a good spot. Sigil of Water is better, because you can toss out heals while doing damage but run into the same problem of over healing or it proccing not when you need it.

I prefer Sigil of Life or Sigil of Battle over either option, though. Sigil of Life is very snowbally if your team is doing well while Sigil of Battle helps your damage on staff. I also use Arcane Blast since blasting your own water fields is pretty important. Remember to use eruption with blasting staff on mid points, since it has a huge radius, then drop your water fields ontop of it for an additional blast. It helps make up the difference for not having evasive arcana blast finishers.

And ele can give AoE stability. Long enough to secure a stomp, anyway.

In short. No.

If you take Aquatic Benevolence you can do some seriously high heals. I’ve been playing a full healer Ele in SPvP every now and then. There’s no denying it’s really fun if you find a spot where you can free-cast.

To be honest, the blocks and reflects Gaurdians provide make them the better support.

I’d definitely play full heal Ele if you haven’t already. It’s extremely fun if you manage to find a good spot to cast from. Auto-Attack heals for a good 1k+.

Zach.3264:

In short. No.

I am afraid I came to this conclusion…

Bottom line, the self-sustain is really lacking compared to a guardian which recieves blocks, blinds and even immunities while maintaining good support – I could never trump it…

It was funny though, making a warrior stay way longer in the fight than he should be, but the moment you get focussed and followed by immobilize, you are gone… You cannot sustain yourself a way a guardian can…

It is a pity really… It seems like Guardians are overly perfect of what they are capable off without being overpowered…

Biggest difficulty you’re likely to have with that build is having your ER interrupted, as it is a long cast and easily telegraphed… You might want to take 2 points out of Water or Arcana, so you can trait 4 points into Earth and take Rock Solid for stability on Earth attunement. Effectively, you have pretty much fool proof heal aside from Bountiful Theft Thieves rupting you with steal. Then again, you’ll be losing either Evasive Arcana (game changing!) or Cleansing Water (I’d throw this away if I had to pick between the 2, since ER already gives you good condi removal). That’s just something to consider, and I suggest play-testing it out.

Aside that, elementalist can bunker very well on a point. With staff, you have a lot of point-covering aoe and cc to scare away hostiles from the point, and you can give good support to your team with fields, boons and heals.

Is this better than the guardian, however? Probably no. Viable? I’d wager so.

I’m pretty casual, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but here is my take on it …

Staff is a great support weapon, but for those reasons you have discovered/listed it struggles to provide the ele with the right tools for primary bunker. If you are going to try and do what a guardian does, I think the best place to start is to try and replicate the same toolkit as close as possible and then deviate away with play testing until you get something that works uniquely for you and your team setup.

To this end I suggest going scepter/focus and 0/0/4/4/4 at a minimum … the last two points going where you feel it works best for you. You certainly lose a lot of the great toys the staff provides, but you gain a great deal more similar to the bunker guardian’s kit … blinds, invulnerability, condi removal outside of water … but also great projectile defense, unique toughness boost, etc. Throw in arcane shield (lame cool down I know) for additional on demand blocks. With all the weapon set condi removal, plus cleansing fire if you take it, you could potentially switch out for another heal (signet of restoration, glyph, etc.).

Armor of earth will probably come from traits, but lightning flash and mist form are both great options … though I think another, often undervalued option is signet of air. The speed boost is beneficial for rotations, and the on demand blind and/or stun break gives it some great versatility. Plus, if you are only packing one cantrip you can think about forgoing reduced cantrip cooldowns for Soothing Wave … coupled with cleansing water should give you some nice additional condi cleansing over time.

Just a thought, take from it what you will. Best of luck

If your main focus is support, I’d actually seriously suggest dropping Blasting Staff and instead taking Arcane Mastery - 20s cooldown on Arcane Brilliance heal (very effective heals when near any foes - particularly foes with pets - and the oh-so-useful blast finisher) and 24s cooldown on Arcane Wave (because yeah you will almost always want that instant-cast blast+crit).

Blasting Staff is very important for high AoE damage, yes, but it doesn’t really do much for your control ability (it makes it easier to catch an enemy inside a Static Field, and lets you chill a larger area with Frozen Ground, but that’s it) and if playing with any kind of organised team you should easily be able to land healing fields on your allies.
BS also doesn’t increase the AoE effects of combos or sigil/rune procs, only AoE weapon skills.

I’ve tried running Diamond Skin Staff in the past, and it was great fun for a while, but people then learned how to deal with it. I’m rather tempted to go at it again with 0/0/6/6/2, since that horrible ICD given to Cleansing Water got reverted - high regen uptime, nigh-immunity to conditions, possibly good protection uptime (depending on traits) and effective party heals. Hm.

No. Not atleast for WvW. But can a 5man live without a guardian, sure. Would be Optimal? No.

Further, staff eles are walking loot bags.