Guild Wars 2

Yet another nerf to GC ele, as I use berserker gear with boon duration runes so I can stay alive and do some damage. lol.

Im going to go into pvp or wvw and troll people by applying a large amounts of boons on them all the while standing far behind them and watching them get destroyed by whatever class gets this ridiculous mechanic,and ill do that until we get some actual class balance.

They mentioned warrior as a prime candidate for this. I don’t really see how it helps them.

Warriors already maul eles when they can get a hold of them, it’s just nearly impossible for a warrior to get his damage on target against skilled opponents with their cooldowns up. This is basically going to make warrior miss x% harder.

They can put it in and see how it goes, but I don’t think it’s going to change anything.

Funny thing is that there is already a counter to bunkers. It is called Condition damage. So instead of fixing that mechanic of game they want to add another layer to balance.

Once again, I think the current types of anti boon skills we have should just be expanded to other classes. Basically just some new utilities for classes who don’t have it, and maybe some slight buffs to weaker boon removal skills (I’m thinking flanking strike). I think most of us agree passive anti boon measures aren’t the way to go, so I don’t think anet would go that way.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Yes there are existing skills and traits that allow for boon removal (Thieves, Necros, Mesmers) but right now, other options for these classes far outshine the build that specializes in boon-removal (burst shatter mes, BS thieves)…

I actually think it’s fine that those build outshine boon removal ones. A build specialized in boon removal is specifically geared towards a certain situation, so it’s only natural it’d be weaker overall. Of course, it should also be strong when that situation arises.
The reason I think it should be done through utility skills is so they can be mixed in with other builds, rather than having to specialize in a build. That way it’d still be a dent in enchant happy builds without trading away everything for that ability.

The devs will either have to nerf boons directly, or create more viable means to counter them.

I can’t understand why they don’t just nerf protection down to 15-20%. It is the only boon that reduces the damage.

Why should I use combos? Why should I use a support skill? Everything increases the damage I take.

And it punishes glass canon elementalists even more, since you are not only a glass canon, you also get ~25x boon hate additional damage, because you dared to use might stacking to deal aceptable damage.

It would be ok, if we could get more mobility as a tradeoff, but thiefs are getting theirs buffed, because they are so immobile…

Yeah, bad idea. It would be an anchor for eles going anything that isn’t bunkerish in nature and limit options. Warriors could get it, and it could make their GC approach much stronger, but thieves should definitely not have access to it. Their damage is insane as it is.

I’d rather have boon hate on other classes than a nerf on us

ofc, I mainly play PvE, so it’s an entirely selfish position, but if other classes get boon hate, it doesn’t affect me in PvE, if we get nerfed, it DOES affect me and PvPers as well

Windwalker.2047:

Im going to go into pvp or wvw and troll people by applying a large amounts of boons on them all the while standing far behind them and watching them get destroyed by whatever class gets this ridiculous mechanic,and ill do that until we get some actual class balance.

don’t forget your (un)friendly neighborhood guardians and mesmers
signet of inspiration and that guard ability that gives all boons will be an absolute JOY :P

The idea of boon hate is flawed.

Boons are popular but only in so much as they have few predators (such kittenter Mesmers). The problem is that once you introduce a boon hate style build to the mix it’s going to be used exclusively to counter the classes that rely on boons to survive (IE: Bunkers). That sounds good in theory but now you’ve introduced a mandatory element to game play where 1 player will always be boon hate to counter any boon bunkers. This will make boon bunkers ineffective with such a targeted counter and people will likely stop bringing them in favor of other styles of bunker (such as a defensive mesmer or Necro).

Personally I’d wish they’d stop coming up with counters and instead just give us other viable alternatives. They may very well find that it’s not as bad as an issue as they think the minute they give us a viable alternative.

This is the kind of thing where I think they’re starting to go overboard with how good they think ele bunkers are.

They’re good. But seriously, they aren’t THAT good. I’ve been playing one all this time and trust me, I know all about what d/d bunkers are and aren’t good at. This is going beyond nerfing something OP and now we’re in the territory of “Anything that works needs to be nerfed”.

It’s even worse considering how fragile everything is that’s holding together our one build. Eventually they’ll hit it with something we can’t recover from (All it would take to outright screw the entire profession would be for them to mess with the elemental attunement trait), and then it’ll be a year before anything worthwhile is added to make it worth using again.

Wizardauz.3761:

“Deal extra damage based on the amount of boons currently on your target”

Hate it? Love it? Confused? Stupid? Amazing?

/discuss

it’s very disappointing, it kills one of our class core features and force us out of a game mechanic (boons stacking) which requires to know what you actually are doing.
Again, it looks like they are punishing players who uses their brain and favoring monoskill-to-win classes.

Well, out of all the possible nerfs/buffs they could have done, this one actually directly effects the play of the elementalist the least. Note that I said “directly”. With all the fear of taking huge hits from the nerf bat to D/D builds, this change puts the burden of using the extra damage on the other players attacking you.

Depending on how it’s implemented, of course. If it’s just a buff that’s always on whenever you’re attacking someone with boons, then that’s a bad change. If it’s something that has to be traited, skilled, or geared for, then that’s a bit different.

Honestly it’s still way too early to get up in arms about it until we see how it’s implemented.

I don’t recall monks getting yelled at for giving people enchantments.
“How dare you put Protective spirit on me, and prevent me from getting spiked now his single skill out of 8 on that 15s recharge will apply bleeding for 6s if it hits me. Curse you Monk!”

Boon hate is the worst idea I’ve heard in while. They’re called boons for god sake, they are supposed to be a good thing. With our standard traits half the time we don’t even have control over how many boons we have, so punishing us for it is inane. Unless they want us to just stop using the traits that give us boons. Oh yeah and better stay away from those combo fields, you might accidentally get some might stacks.

What worries me is that while it would be a reasonable counter to D/D, it would crush what little chance staff has in 1v1.

Problem with Boon Hate:
1) Irrelevant in PvE. How many boons is on that mob you’re fighting? Do we need to buy separate gears for WvW and PvE now?
2) Not all boons are equal. If boon hate is doing damage based on number of boons that’s on you, people have have to avoid that 1 stack of might buff that lasts 20 seconds.

Wizardauz.3761:

“Deal extra damage based on the amount of boons currently on your target”

If it works like this then it’s really really bad. But I still haven’t lost all faith in Arenanet, they are better than this, I think/hope.

Elementalist got hit on every patch since release, and even more at release compared to beta. After they implement their newest stupid idea called boon hate I want one of the devs to come here and tell us how the expect an elementalist to survive

Not a good idea at all. Classes do not have the same boons and the effect of the boons is different from class to class.

1) The same number of boons on two different classes leaves both classes in entirely different states offensively and defensively.

2) Boons are unbalanced. Some are simply more valuable than others. Saying the number of boons on a character determines his penalty would be saying the same thing as the number of conditions on our class determine their effect on us. We know that is not true. We selectively use our condtion removal for those condtiions that are most critical under that situtation.

3) Each situation gives boons a different priority in the importance of their effect. Might is only effective if the ele is in a postion to down the opponent and inconsequential if only trying to stay alive. Speed is primary to escape or travel to a point, not in the heat of battle and to a minor degree the importance varies depending on whether up against a ranged or melee character or a character equiped with closing skills, such as a d/d ele.

4) Nerfing boons to counter one build, a bunker ele for example, would have an unequal effect on other classes or ele builds when their boons have no such great an effect.

5) Boons come with their own penalties. Quickness comes with its own unique conditions. Other boons come with penalties because of the traits that were replaced with them and are no longer available. Builds are sacrificed too as well as equipment sigils etc. to get certain boons or damage or effects.

Adjusting a classes boons to prevent OP builds for that specific class, weapon set, gear, and build is a much more straight forward process. This prevents the unintended consequences on other builds and classes.

I for example run with Lyssa gear that upon the use of an elite skill removes all conditions and gives all boons for 5 seconds. That gear is pretty light on positives otherwise. That is an extreme example but clearly illustrates how disproportionate the penalty would be on me. Most might argue that proc is underpowered and not worth the effort. How obvious then is the penalty against me for using it an unfair penalty given its limited usefulness to begin with.

I want Condition Love.

Timelord.8190:

So they want to punish us for using our only viable build. Guess i have to lvl my warrior then. It’s so nice with the rifle who can one-shot enemies from a safe distanse.

This is funny. No really. I play all the classes and have most of them over 30 or 40. I’ve yet to one-shot anything while leveling my warrior unless you are counting the squirrel or raccoon? And no, while leveling you aren’t constantly doing Kill Shot (adrenaline skill with rifle.) If all you use on your rifle warrior is Kill Shot please send me your build lol.

Timelord.8190:

So they want to punish us for using our only viable build. Guess i have to lvl my warrior then. It’s so nice with the rifle who can one-shot enemies from a safe distanse.

lol, yeah cause rifle warriors are so insanely viable in competitive play….

/eyeroll

Boon Hate is in no way a counter to D/D eles. Almost any profession has access to boons. My warrior runs around with perma swiftness, fury, might and vigor. If Boon Hate would give a flat 3% damage per boon. This would result in a constant 12% more damage. Now factor in group play in WvW. Many boons are group based so in WvW my warrior has way more boons than those. 3 more boons on me would result in 20% more damage.

Now think about backstabing thieves with access to Boon Hate and a 20+% damage boost. lol

Boon Hate at least in WvW is no counter to a certain builds. Its more a constant damage boost against anyone. Worst idea ever.

Counters to certain playstyles are fine, but it should force skillful playing for both players. Think about CC + stability: If someone activates stability you have the opportunity to save your CC until stability runs out. This doesnt work with Boon Hate because at least for eles boons are activated automatically. You cannot prevent boons if you notice your opponent has activated Boon Hate.

Is boon-hate going to be the new zerg buster in WvW?

There are a lot of builds that apply boons liberally to allies. You get enough people playing together, and they’re stacking boons on each other like crazy without even thinking about it.

Do the boon-hate supporters realize how many boons are being dropped on them all the time by nearby players?