Guild Wars 2

I’m gonna keep this short and to the point.

BUFFS:
-Base attunement swap 12 seconds, Arcana recharge rate halved (Shadow something of team paradigm’s idea)
-Add a blast finisher to evasive arcana earth dodge roll
-Lingering elements now works with + % dmg while attuned to X
-Pyromancer’s Puissance changed to spells cast while attuned to fire to work with lingering elements

EDIT:
-Rework water attunement healing abilities to make the healing from evasive arcana cleansing wave baseline. Example: offhand dagger cleansing wave cooldown is now 15 seconds.
-Burning precision’s burning duration increased to 2 seconds.

NERFS:
-Protection duration from elemental attunement reduced from 5 to 3 seconds
-Only 1 lingering attunement at any given time

-EDITED: Remove the heal from evasive arcana, the buff to baseline healing abilities should offset this loss.

Feedback appreciated.

There’s one buff I want, and it’s a massive one:

I want the bugs fixed.

I’m now farming and so on much less than I did before the Dragon’s Tooth bug was introduced.

If it’s too hard to fix the Dragon’s Tooth bug, then please revert to the old functionality, as nobody seemed to be calling that overpowered.

Much less important, Final Shielding would be a good trait if it actually worked as stated. But at 10% health or wherever it usually kicks in, it’s much less useful.

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

-Something needs to be done about evasive arcana’s water roll, it promotes 30 arcana 15+ water builds that are all too common. I suggest removing the heal completely. This would be a massive nerf, but I think it would lead to build diversity which will be better for future balance overall.

Feedback appreciated.

If they did do that evasive arcana would become more useless than it is already. Even adding the combo to earth wouldn’t make up for that type of gut. While you see build diversity I would see the end of the road. The other trees aren’t strong enough to spec into for many and attunement happens to be a decent tree (not great0. With what has already happened to our healing why should it be nerfed yet again? No amount of build diversity would justify the flat nerfed we just received and the cap (limited to 5 allies total). Right now it has next to no utility as the dps in the other 3 elements is lack luster. Remember its a 30 point skill its should be phenomenal atm its still crappy why would anyone suggest making it worse?

Also I cant imagine why players should be punished for swapping. Its the harder playstyle and for doing it well we should be rewarded not punished.

I couldn’t agree more on the bug fixes, especially for newly introduced bugs from improperly tested patches. The bugs that the game released with never really bothered me because I worked around them, but the newly introduced ones that affected my build/playstyle really tick me off.

TheGuy.3568:

Also I cant imagine why players should be punished for swapping. Its the harder playstyle and for doing it well we should be rewarded not punished.

I assume this is in response to the lingering elements nerf I proposed. I don’t really consider it a nerf, but rather a way to balance out the buff I proposed for it. If people could spec for +10% dmg in fire, +10% dmg in air, and +20% damage in water on vulnerable target they could potentially stack all three of those attunement bonuses and deal ridiculously high damage. By limiting the attunement bonuses it would prevent this but still be significant buff compared to what we have now.

As for the evasive arcana nerf, I would ask do you still think that the ability is mandatory? I don’t want the devs to balance elementalist survivability around the idea that we all have evasive arcana and water attune + dodge roll every time it’s off cooldown.

Decent builds that don’t require D/D.

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

TheGuy.3568:

Also I cant imagine why players should be punished for swapping. Its the harder playstyle and for doing it well we should be rewarded not punished.

I assume this is in response to the lingering elements nerf I proposed. I don’t really consider it a nerf, but rather a way to balance out the buff I proposed for it. If people could spec for +10% dmg in fire, +10% dmg in air, and +20% damage in water on vulnerable target they could potentially stack all three of those attunement bonuses and deal ridiculously high damage. By limiting the attunement bonuses it would prevent this but still be significant buff compared to what we have now.

As for the evasive arcana nerf, I would ask do you still think that the ability is mandatory? I don’t want the devs to balance elementalist survivability around the idea that we all have evasive arcana and water attune + dodge roll every time it’s off cooldown.

Arcana is not mandatory this is evident by the fact that many dropped it once it no longer capable of causing blast finishers. However those who kept it resoundingly kept it for one reason and that is the heal and wipe in water attunement. For swappers going 30 points is almost mandatory since any less would throw off our pace. However the 30 point skill we should act and behave like a 30 point skill. It should a a skill worth sinking near half of your skill points into one tree to get. If they removed the heal from EA what would be the point of getting it? What justification would there be for getting the skill at all? Considering they already nerfed it in spvp the only reason to nerf it again would be…..I honestly draw a blank. Your suggestion is that EA be nerfed so the devs don’t get the wrong idea that EA primary function as of now is its only function an extra heal. You also suggest that we be forced out of arcana because we are no diverse enough.

Now I may sound pissed here but that because I dislike short shortsightedness. Our bunker builds never used EA and never needed it. Realize that specing 30 into earth or arcana are nearly mutually exclusive because of Water. Our survivability never hinged on EA but an entire playstyle did and it was wiped away from the game. EA is a 30 point trait. Let me say it again EA is a 30 point trait that has already been nerfed to near uselessness.

You argue that some nerf needs to happen to our survivability so that our dps can get a buff. Let me point you to the threads below. Play the class more a realize we need no more nerfs our burst should have been buffed months ago regardless. We don’t need a balance for it as it is already owed to us. There need be no compensation in loss of survivability for burst. We should have received higher end dps traits that weren’t bugged and more useful in the first place.

Re read your list of nerfs and realize that you argue 1 point at the core. We should all be forced to spec more dps and farther away from survival. I am honestly tired of balanced middle of the road builds being targeted so that dps can feel better.

Your suggestion sounds more like an attack to me on things not dps. You even ask for a protection nerf. Think about it your mind was set on dps and dps alone. We are one of the few classes allowed to play balanced builds well why bother it when you have no good reason?

TheGuy.3568:

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

TheGuy.3568:

Also I cant imagine why players should be punished for swapping. Its the harder playstyle and for doing it well we should be rewarded not punished.

I assume this is in response to the lingering elements nerf I proposed. I don’t really consider it a nerf, but rather a way to balance out the buff I proposed for it. If people could spec for +10% dmg in fire, +10% dmg in air, and +20% damage in water on vulnerable target they could potentially stack all three of those attunement bonuses and deal ridiculously high damage. By limiting the attunement bonuses it would prevent this but still be significant buff compared to what we have now.

As for the evasive arcana nerf, I would ask do you still think that the ability is mandatory? I don’t want the devs to balance elementalist survivability around the idea that we all have evasive arcana and water attune + dodge roll every time it’s off cooldown.

Arcana is not mandatory this is evident by the fact that many dropped it once it no longer capable of causing blast finishers. However those who kept it resoundingly kept it for one reason and that is the heal and wipe in water attunement. For swappers going 30 points is almost mandatory since any less would throw off our pace. However the 30 point skill we should act and behave like a 30 point skill. It should a a skill worth sinking near half of your skill points into one tree to get. If they removed the heal from EA what would be the point of getting it? What justification would there be for getting the skill at all? Considering they already nerfed it in spvp the only reason to nerf it again would be…..I honestly draw a blank. Your suggestion is that EA be nerfed so the devs don’t get the wrong idea that EA primary function as of now is its only function an extra heal. You also suggest that we be forced out of arcana because we are no diverse enough.

Now I may sound pissed here but that because I dislike short shortsightedness. Our bunker builds never used EA and never needed it. Realize that specing 30 into earth or arcana are nearly mutually exclusive because of Water. Our survivability never hinged on EA but an entire playstyle did and it was wiped away from the game. EA is a 30 point trait. Let me say it again EA is a 30 point trait that has already been nerfed to near uselessness.

You argue that some nerf needs to happen to our survivability so that our dps can get a buff. Let me point you to the threads below. Play the class more a realize we need no more nerfs our burst should have been buffed months ago regardless. We don’t need a balance for it as it is already owed to us. There need be no compensation in loss of survivability for burst. We should have received higher end dps traits that weren’t bugged and more useful in the first place.

Re read your list of nerfs and realize that you argue 1 point at the core. We should all be forced to spec more dps and farther away from survival. I am honestly tired of balanced middle of the road builds being targeted so that dps can feel better.

Your suggestion sounds more like an attack to me on things not dps. You even ask for a protection nerf. Think about it your mind was set on dps and dps alone. We are one of the few classes allowed to play balanced builds well why bother it when you have no good reason?

i have to agree with you and yeah i dropped EA once it didn’t have a blast, and i think i found a better build, overall at least for damage and a more middle road

I’ve played elementalist exclusively from rank 17 to rank 37 with over 1400 matches. Until the recent patch I’ve used evasive arcana builds exclusively. I am a casual player and only want what’s best for overall balance (I am not an elitist[nor do I have any reason to be] I value everyone’s opinion). I appreciate your response and I will do my best to respond even in my currently inebriated state.

I have dropped evasive arcana since the latest patch. I do agree that attunement swapping is entirely mandatory to be an effective elementalist. By reducing the base attunement swapping to 12 seconds and halving the recharge rate, the new swapping cooldowns would be 12,11,10, and 9 depending on arcana investment. This was greatly reduce ele’s dependance on arcana. The reduction on the protection duration is to reflect the fact that even those with little arcana investment would have greater access to this buff and it would possibly be overpowered to not reduce its duration. The nerfs I propose aren’t really nerfs, but a way to balance out the buffs. The buffs I propose are to increase the viability of all ele builds, and the nerfs are to insure that specific builds don’t benefit disproportionately.

I do have to disagree that bunker builds didn’t require evasive arcana. Perhaps a third party could chime in on this?

I am perhaps slightly biased, for in the spvp forum people often refer to elementalists synonymously as bunker elementalist. For those of us using berserker amulets and having zero room for error in order to perform properly, it is slightly insulting to be compared to the low risk cleric’s amulet using bunker elementalist who can tank 2 people almost indefinitely.

I don’t want to force people into dps specs. I am just tired of people parroting the notion that our traitlines are broken unless you spec into water/arcana. I’ve used water/arcana builds and fire/air builds and find both to be equally suitable. I can’t speak for conditions builds although the general opinion seems to be that they are ineffective and I agree in theory.

Most poeple agree that the current meta of unkillable bunker builds is ruining the game. Guardians are still the main culprit here but I don’t think that should give elementalist a free pass.

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

I’ve played elementalist exclusively from rank 17 to rank 37 with over 1400 matches. Until the recent patch I’ve used evasive arcana builds exclusively. I am a casual player and only want what’s best for overall balance (I am not an elitist[nor do I have any reason to be] I value everyone’s opinion). I appreciate your response and I will do my best to respond even in my currently inebriated state.

I have dropped evasive arcana since the latest patch. I do agree that attunement swapping is entirely mandatory to be an effective elementalist. By reducing the base attunement swapping to 12 seconds and halving the recharge rate, the new swapping cooldowns would be 12,11,10, and 9 depending on arcana investment. This was greatly reduce ele’s dependance on arcana. The reduction on the protection duration is to reflect the fact that even those with little arcana investment would have greater access to this buff and it would possibly be overpowered to not reduce its duration. The nerfs I propose aren’t really nerfs, but a way to balance out the buffs. The buffs I propose are to increase the viability of all ele builds, and the nerfs are to insure that specific builds don’t benefit disproportionately.

I do have to disagree that bunker builds didn’t require evasive arcana. Perhaps a third party could chime in on this?

I am perhaps slightly biased, for in the spvp forum people often refer to elementalists synonymously as bunker elementalist. For those of us using berserker amulets and having zero room for error in order to perform properly, it is slightly insulting to be compared to the low risk cleric’s amulet using bunker elementalist who can tank 2 people almost indefinitely.

I don’t want to force people into dps specs. I am just tired of people parroting the notion that our traitlines are broken unless you spec into water/arcana. I’ve used water/arcana builds and fire/air builds and find both to be equally suitable. I can’t speak for conditions builds although the general opinion seems to be that they are ineffective and I agree in theory.

Most poeple agree that the current meta of unkillable bunker builds is ruining the game. Guardians are still the main culprit here but I don’t think that should give elementalist a free pass.

I use Beserkers Amulet with clerics jewel and still use Evasive Arcana with D/D and S/D. No I do not like running bunker builds, I like having respectable Damage and Survival capabilities. I used to run Valkaries and put some points into fire and air with less focus in Water and Arcane, but I feel that running high survival traits with damage stats is just too effective with my playstyle. ( I also have played ele to quite a high rank, level 39 atm).

I will admit that bunker builds were harder to kill if they had EA, but their are still some viable ele bunker builds out there. and personally i use soldier’s amulet, and i basically forget about precision, but i have a good amount of everything else because of it, but not a lot of crits(which i can deal with if i do it right i can get upto 12 stacks of might on me relatively quickly so as to still be viable in a fight) i am personally only semi bunkerish( i say semi because besides 10 trait difference i take 10 off from somewhere and add it too fire) because of this i can easily tank 1, harder for 2 and not forever, 3 is a big no no, but because of this 10 trait difference i now do a ton more damage and i rely heavily upon boons(for that nifty +2% damage for each boon trait) so i activate cleanising fire i get 3 stacks of might vigor and regen that’s +6% damage not including might and since i have elemental attunment i get 2% damage for chanign my element and that’s if i do it slowly, with 6 being glyph of elemental harmony an additional 2% and if water an extra condition remover, and if armor of earth activates i get a 10% revamp to my damage if i had no boons on, i use staff btw, this build is magnificent if you have any help at all 2v3-5 if its a guardian 2v5 is easily tanked if a DPS we can eventually kill the 2v4 since i can do both damage, heal because of being staff 2 healing fields, and tank so the recharge would be nice, but i like my 5 sec protection too much to give up and i really like the lingering attunments, which is supposed to happen(for elemental swapping) since you just changed half of its cooldown it should still be active since you just switched

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

I’ve played elementalist exclusively from rank 17 to rank 37 with over 1400 matches. Until the recent patch I’ve used evasive arcana builds exclusively. I am a casual player and only want what’s best for overall balance (I am not an elitist[nor do I have any reason to be] I value everyone’s opinion). I appreciate your response and I will do my best to respond even in my currently inebriated state.

I have dropped evasive arcana since the latest patch. I do agree that attunement swapping is entirely mandatory to be an effective elementalist. By reducing the base attunement swapping to 12 seconds and halving the recharge rate, the new swapping cooldowns would be 12,11,10, and 9 depending on arcana investment. This was greatly reduce ele’s dependance on arcana. The reduction on the protection duration is to reflect the fact that even those with little arcana investment would have greater access to this buff and it would possibly be overpowered to not reduce its duration. The nerfs I propose aren’t really nerfs, but a way to balance out the buffs. The buffs I propose are to increase the viability of all ele builds, and the nerfs are to insure that specific builds don’t benefit disproportionately.

I do have to disagree that bunker builds didn’t require evasive arcana. Perhaps a third party could chime in on this?

I am perhaps slightly biased, for in the spvp forum people often refer to elementalists synonymously as bunker elementalist. For those of us using berserker amulets and having zero room for error in order to perform properly, it is slightly insulting to be compared to the low risk cleric’s amulet using bunker elementalist who can tank 2 people almost indefinitely.

I don’t want to force people into dps specs. I am just tired of people parroting the notion that our traitlines are broken unless you spec into water/arcana. I’ve used water/arcana builds and fire/air builds and find both to be equally suitable. I can’t speak for conditions builds although the general opinion seems to be that they are ineffective and I agree in theory.

Most poeple agree that the current meta of unkillable bunker builds is ruining the game. Guardians are still the main culprit here but I don’t think that should give elementalist a free pass.

As casual player you should realize that glass cannon eles are effective only in sPvP against newbs, likewise bunker builds are “unkillable” only for players who don’t know what to do, place a bunker ele against 2 players worth their salt and he’ll go down in no time.
The bunkers are not unkillable, their role is to survive until help come, but what you’re asking would literally destroy the elementalist role in tPvP as I see no good team picking a burst ele over a thief or warrior like now.
Burst eles are simply not effective as thiefs or warriors, these two can kill a target in half the time required by an ele while having more survivability innately, one has got stealth and the other got heavy armour+shield, on the other hand a burst ele would use mist form that every player knows last only 3s
Regarding the fire trait line, yes people are correct in saying its’ bad, it forces you to stay in fire for as long as possible, too specific traits in it and this should change.
The problem with ele is that survivability drop too much ( almost to zero) once you move away from earth/water trait line, that’s why the word ele has become synonymus with bunker, a glass cannon ele is a free kill unless babysitted by others in which case he may do some dmg while still not as effective as other professions

Give an attunement recharge rate bonus to a single attunement when you put trait point into it.

Some people like to switch attunement a lot, Arcane is here for them.

Some people like to focus on one/two elements. While switching attunement for a specific attack, defense or CC move is the a core part of the profession, they should be allowed to go back to their favored attunement fast without having to spend 20+ pts into Arcane.

@Arheundel

I agree with everything you’ve said, but if removing the heal from evasive arcana would destroy elementalists in tpvp don’t you think that is poor design?

If elementalists are going to be balanced around having access to an additional base 1300 heal + condition removal every time they go water attunement why not just tweak all the water attunement weapon abilities to accommodate that. For example just reduce the cooldown on offhand dagger cleansing wave to 15 seconds. This way elementalists don’t lose any survivability and they aren’t pigeonholed into an evasive arcana build.

I’ve noticed one elementalist on the leaderboards using a semi glassy build in paids. At least prior to the last patch he was using water/arcana + berserker amulet. I find it absurd that he’s forced to use a build nearly identical to a bunker even though he is preforming an entirely different role.

I dont want to say too much about history except that, like in every other game I play, I play every class to considerable extent; meta, theorycrafting and class balance is something I have spent a lot of time involved in.

@OP given what you said in your post just prior to mine now – that an ele, even a dps one, is forced to trait in ways similar to bunkers of other classes in order to remain viable – do you really think that your OP and changes are enough?
I would say no, but they are a start.

Where does ele stand? (I personally am looking only at tPvP for the most part)
Eles strengths currently, by themselves and in a group, are support and sustainability. Yes, eles can do some meaningful damage, but their usefulness comes from the attunement buffs they give to the group, and the healing they can provide; healing ripple, D#2/5, Sc#3, evasive arcana etc can amount to, even during a short/medium length fight 30s, 10k aoe healing or more; this can easily turn the tide of a skirmish.

Its obvious that eles or NOT, nor ever will be thieves, warriors, or even shatter mesmers; they will never really be better at “kill before youre killed” type, and should they be? Probably not.

So whats wrong with the ele class? Youre forced to trait further into your support role in order to further promote the strengths that ought to be inherent with the class/trait lines; this makes your other traits even more useless because, as it currently stands, you would never take traits in fire over having the increased supportive abilities like evasive arcana because it only serves in crippling the only strength of the ele; obviously, no amount of points in fire is going to turn you into a thief or warrior.

So what needs to change? Honestly, a little bit of everything. Personally, I think the most needed change is to a rehaul to the 5 point trait in every tree. Primarily the Arcana 5 pt trait should be changed to include the #5 (elemental attunement); this is an inherent part of the class, you shouldnt be forced to waste trait points AND a major trait slot to get it; the major trait could then be changed to make an increase to the fury on that trait ie: (Inspiring fury) fury from attunement swapping lasts 50% longer -3s- and is now shared with nearby allies.

I am not fond of the current Arcana tree dynamic – reduction on attunement swap recharge. I would go so far as to say to remove it all together. Make the the recharge a base 10s cd, and change the trait tree to do something different all together.
I mentioned earlier a change to the 5 pt traits in all trees. This would be done to promote a more diversified point distribution while giving a meaningful benefit.
I was thinking something along these lines
-Each 5 pt trait would grant an aura that attacks made during this time have some kind of benefit, eg: fire: (all attacks, not just fire ones) 5-10% dmg, air: attacks unblockable, earth: attacks cause bleed, water: healing around caster per attack, base 250hp per attack. (These are just examples) The arcana trait line would instead be made to increase the duration of these auras instead of attunement recharge.

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

@Arheundel

I agree with everything you’ve said, but if removing the heal from evasive arcana would destroy elementalists in tpvp don’t you think that is poor design?

If elementalists are going to be balanced around having access to an additional base 1300 heal + condition removal every time they go water attunement why not just tweak all the water attunement weapon abilities to accommodate that. For example just reduce the cooldown on offhand dagger cleansing wave to 15 seconds. This way elementalists don’t lose any survivability and they aren’t pigeonholed into an evasive arcana build.

I’ve noticed one elementalist on the leaderboards using a semi glassy build in paids. At least prior to the last patch he was using water/arcana + berserker amulet. I find it absurd that he’s forced to use a build nearly identical to a bunker even though he is preforming an entirely different role.

To cover a few points 30/30 water earth for DD was always viable as a bunker. Staff needed ea staff EA is broken if you haven’t noticed (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012/first#post744278).

You seem to have vendetta against EA as you seem to be of the mindset that it should be useless. Not only have you not presented an alternate 30 point trait you seem to be suggesting that all of us should be forced away from arcane (which seems a little hypocritical to me). Now instead of dodging my question which I will continually ask. Why should EA be nerfed again?

I concede the dps trees need help but not at the expense of our survivability. Compared to other classes EA assistance in our capability to survive is a joke. If you played each class you would realize we have speed as DD and S/D but that about it all the healing in the world will not stop a burst. Considering how many of us want to see EA returned to some form of what it was I can only read your comments as some indictment against defensive and balanced builds.

To keep this direct. We do not need some nerf in survivability to have viable dps specs. If they fix the bugs and spec the trees for dps with useful traits, than players who choose that route will put points into it that they can’t put into earth, water, and arcane.

I also need to point out that every class some expectations attached and builds and roles are far from equal. Guardian and Ele were promised the capability to be strong support and we are. Others got strong burst dps and they. By no means should the role of support continue to be undermined by players who spec dps and nothing else.

I cant imagine why choosing to play anything other than pure dps is synonymous with asking to punished.

I point you to this thread so you realize nerfing EA again with be the death of the trait as it has died in the eyes of many already. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/So-no-more-blasts-on-evasive-arcana-Merged/page/10#post833684 There is no real alternative and considering how much distress our community has already faced I don’t see why its necessary or practical to nerf us majorly so we can be glass. Honestly I enjoy my plays ytle ankittenempted to tell you to go to every other class save guardian and ranger that has decent burst builds. We should not have to be cookie cuttered into generic dps number 8. There are 8 classes you have options why mess with ours?