Guild Wars 2

… but it seems like more and more Elementalists are theory crafting some strange builds.

Have they (Anet) actually succeeded in promoting diversity? Granted it is too early to tell but there may be some hope for the future opening up the potential for refinement.

In short we’re seeing more emphasis on heavy earth and heavy air (non fresh air) builds many using focus offhand to offset the lack of water and 30 in arcana.

We’re seeing a renewed interest in condition builds (many would laugh at this but in theory they appear to be extremely powerful), we’re also seeing the emergence of builds revolving around the shortened cooldown on Tempest Defense.

On the other hand we still have many people stating that they won’t be breaking from a heavy investment into Water and Arcana until our survivability or base stats are altered.

From a weapon perspective we’re generally polarised into the following:

Staff being least reliant on water & arcana
fire + air dps
water + arcana support
air + earth + water hybrid

Dagger/Dagger most reliant on water & arcana
water + arcana bunker
air + water + arcana burst
earth + water hybrid

Scepter/Dagger less reliant on water & arcana
fresh air burst
earth + water + arcana condition bunker

x/focus less reliant on water & arcana due to defensive offhand
fresh air offensive
earth + water hybrid skirmish
water + arcana bunker

There are definitely some interesting build options being thrown around at the moment however due to our poor survivability there is still a strong bias towards building defensively.

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

I hate to brake it to you but you did not mention game mode.
Since I am wasting a 15min-floodcontrol post I will also answer your question:

MarzAttakz.9608:

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

Me.

And finally the patch was released only a few days ago. We will talk about build diversity after the next tournament.

I already tested several new builds in hotjoin and solo-Q and everytime I return to the D/D x/x/x/30/30 build. New traits (Burning Fire and Diamond Skin) appear to be useless. So our old standard-build is still the most effective build out there I think. It can be used for both offense and defense just by switching runes and amulett.
Unless you play well coordinated tPvP where your team carries you, you can’t really run anything else due to the lack of defense

Zelyhn.8069:

I hate to brake it to you but you did not mention game mode.
Since I am wasting a 15min-floodcontrol post I will also answer your question:

MarzAttakz.9608:

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

Me.

And finally the patch was released only a few days ago. We will talk about build diversity after the next tournament.

I’m sorry you’re so angry, although I understand why coming from a sPVP perspective.

However for the sake of a discussion not revolving around emotional backlash perhaps you could cool off before attempting to contribute something to the thread?

They broke my might/cantrip build and I went back to my old fresh air build. Nothing new there…

MarzAttakz.9608:

Zelyhn.8069:

I hate to brake it to you but you did not mention game mode.
Since I am wasting a 15min-floodcontrol post I will also answer your question:

MarzAttakz.9608:

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

Me.

And finally the patch was released only a few days ago. We will talk about build diversity after the next tournament.

I’m sorry you’re so angry, although I understand why coming from a sPVP perspective.

However for the sake of a discussion not revolving around emotional backlash perhaps you could cool off before attempting to contribute something to the thread?

Don’t worry I am only angry at flood control

But anyway I really think we should wait until top-pvpers go in tournaments before we can discuss viability and diversity of the class.

MarzAttakz.9608:

We’re seeing a renewed interest in condition builds (many would laugh at this but in theory they appear to be extremely powerful)

Those theories have been going on for a long time, there’s not much news in this respect. Ele condition builds have always been powerful in theory.

From a weapon perspective we’re generally polarised into the following:

Staff being least reliant on water & arcana

Dagger/Dagger most reliant on water & arcana

Scepter/Dagger less reliant on water & arcana

What do you base this one?

There are definitely some interesting build options being thrown around at the moment however due to our poor survivability there is still a strong bias towards building defensively.

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

Agreeing with you there.

If you are saying that people are trying new things, then I’m sure we can all agree. Wheter or not those new things will actually become popular wih the masses is another matter. Personally though, my biggest argument with your post is your presentation. You could have presented it in a way that doesn’t scream “you’re dumb and I’m not”. Calling Zelyhn out for a supposedly emotional reaction adds arrogance to the insult. But that’s just me I suppose, maybe I’m misreading things.

I’ve seen plenty of elementalists before the 10th December patch in PVE and PVP both, not investing in Arcane or Water, and sometimes neither. It’s just not heard much on the forums because those who have created a working build are busy playing it instead of complaining they need more DPS in their defensive traits, or more survivability in their offensive traits.

There is a learning curve for this class, and most start out playing defensive with soldier stats and focusing on healing etc. Not everyone decides to try gradually trading it off for offensive stats. If anyone has played a berserker d/d elementalist with reduced access to healing and condition removal for a good time, goes back to the bunker style, they’ll realise that the dependency on survival abilities is due to lacking survival skill. The trick is the same as for any class and any game – to constantly try to improve and find better approaches instead of settling for the first thing that works, however restricting that may be.

I’m not disputing the patch having opened up more build possibilities, however. I do think though, that a lot of people will find it difficult to change after being used to having high armour, a lot of healing, and the ability to remove conditions in an instant as opposed to relying on a trait with a 40 second cooldown.

It could be argued that the lack of perceived diversity before, and even at present, is due to the elementalist being the only class that does not have the ability to adapt in terms of attack range while in combat. Every other class can swap between close range and long range capabilities. While there is the possibility for effective builds which utilise conjured weapons as a ranged weapon swap, they don’t compare to the versatility of being able to swap between a melee and ranged weapon every 5-10 seconds. 1-2 swaps per minute isn’t a great incentive for such a build/play-style adjustment.

To sum up, I think the elementalist has always had more build diversity than the majority of players – at least on the forums – realise, and that most don’t feel comfortable trying anything with a significant change. I hope no one takes offense to anything I’ve said; being rude is never an intention but often stating facts as one sees them or reporting experiences can appear hostile or arrogant.

ThiBash.5634:

MarzAttakz.9608:

We’re seeing a renewed interest in condition builds (many would laugh at this but in theory they appear to be extremely powerful)

Those theories have been going on for a long time, there’s not much news in this respect. Ele condition builds have always been powerful in theory.

From a weapon perspective we’re generally polarised into the following:

Staff being least reliant on water & arcana

Dagger/Dagger most reliant on water & arcana

Scepter/Dagger less reliant on water & arcana

What do you base this one?

There are definitely some interesting build options being thrown around at the moment however due to our poor survivability there is still a strong bias towards building defensively.

Who knows what the future will hold for our class?

Agreeing with you there.

If you are saying that people are trying new things, then I’m sure we can all agree. Wheter or not those new things will actually become popular wih the masses is another matter. Personally though, my biggest argument with your post is your presentation. You could have presented it in a way that doesn’t scream “you’re dumb and I’m not”. Calling Zelyhn out for a supposedly emotional reaction adds arrogance to the insult. But that’s just me I suppose, maybe I’m misreading things.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying Thibash, people are trying new things, we’re going to have to wait and see how successful they are.

My reasoning behind this post was to try and figure out Anet’s logic behind build diversity, on the one hand they may say they’ve succeeded due to the experimentation, on the other we could label their initiative as a failure due to no new working builds and the destruction of existing builds.

However by testing the new changes and giving constructive feedback we may just have another round of adjustments that would potentially put us back in a good place. If that doesn’t prove to be the case then we as the Elementalist community can finally say “you have no clue how to balance this class”.

Regarding my summation of trait allocations on our weapon sets, as stated they are generalisations. Historically I know you think outside of the box so none of those apply to you. They are simply my interpretation of playstyle and trait allocation throughout pve, wvw and spvp.

As for my response to Zelhyn and the structure of my post, yes, I think you’re misreading there

been playing a bunch of 0 arcana builds. The shortened base attunement cooldown is amazing. Also dagger/focus full glass seems to work pretty well. Focus is too good for staying alive. On a few occasions I was able to bunker long enough for help to arrive, with my squishy 0 water/arcana zerker build.

MarzAttakz.9608:

… but it seems like more and more Elementalists are theory crafting some strange builds.

We just had a large balance changing patch, people are experimenting all avenues. This isn’t something new or strange. Wait for the changes to settle in after a few weeks. Then we’ll know what effect the changes had.

PVP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhImmbnR5wjEAkCuEUQADCFPYRRhOzA-TkAg0Eep6y1lxLpSWlGEMFB

WVW – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmmbwR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUUozMA-j0CBYfAYLgkIgEBAJfFRjtMMsVXRr8KIabYqYER12cFRrWIABbBA-w (Last 10 are up to playstyle and roaming vs zerging)

PVE – Same as WvW but with lightning hammer instead of lightning flash and ice bow instead of armor or earth

KeyLimPi.9031:

PVP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhImmbnR5wjEAkCuEUQADCFPYRRhOzA-TkAg0Eep6y1lxLpSWlGEMFB

WVW – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmmbwR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUUozMA-j0CBYfAYLgkIgEBAJfFRjtMMsVXRr8KIabYqYER12cFRrWIABbBA-w (Last 10 are up to playstyle and roaming vs zerging)

PVE – Same as WvW but with lightning hammer instead of lightning flash and ice bow instead of armor or earth

Why internal fire instead of spell slinger, and why glyph of elemental harmony instead of ether renewal? Seems like you have nothing to help with conditions.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

KeyLimPi.9031:

PVP – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhImmbnR5wjEAkCuEUQADCFPYRRhOzA-TkAg0Eep6y1lxLpSWlGEMFB

WVW – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmmbwR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUUozMA-j0CBYfAYLgkIgEBAJfFRjtMMsVXRr8KIabYqYER12cFRrWIABbBA-w (Last 10 are up to playstyle and roaming vs zerging)

PVE – Same as WvW but with lightning hammer instead of lightning flash and ice bow instead of armor or earth

Why internal fire instead of spell slinger, and why glyph of elemental harmony instead of ether renewal? Seems like you have nothing to help with conditions.

I choose Internal Due to the amount of straight forward initial burst with RTL-> Updraft -> DT -> RoF -> Pheonix. I admit that spellslinger would be thematically better, but I’ve been doing really well with this so far. It’s a playstyle choice.

Elemental is due to the high upkeep of protection I can keep with the overall build as well as the lack of stability to help ether channel. In the group I run with I’m the designated treb/roamer so usually when I get to a fight the initial condi bursts are gone. That said, I may try out the auto-cleanse a little if I see a necro + engi on the enemy comp.

As I said, mine comes down to playstyle choices + designated jobs.

Ok, I might try it out at some point.

I’ve tried a few things out since the patch, including going back to cookie cutter d/d, doing a 30/30/0/0/10 s/d might/fury stacking build, and wvw focused staff build. I just can’t find something that ele is very good at that I want to do with this alt. So, at this point I’m back to what I first did right after the patch, which is switch my 0/30/0/10/30 s/d build to 0/30/0/20/20 and let go of EA.

The problem I keep running into is that everything I do I used to enjoy doing the most on my ele. Now, wvw is about the only thing I like doing with my ele, and I have several other characters who are more fun to play in there. Maybe I’m just burned out, who knows. Even with knight armor and berserker trinkets I just don’t put out as much damage as I think the class ought to, even when going 30 into both fire and air.

Going 30 into fire with boon duration runes and persisting flames you can stack a TON of might and fury for a LOOOOONG time, and I still feel like I’m hitting soft even on flame grab and churning earth – again, with knight armor and berserker trinket.

Ele is just not in a good place for me right now.

Please keep the feedback coming guys!

If possible could you list each build variation you’ve tried along with the good and bad points, especially note why you felt the build didn’t work.

Let’s try give Arenanet some cohesive input (for what it’s worth).

I personally have found my calling with 0/30/10/20/10, d/f and swapping to scepter for certain bosses (like grawl shaman). I get great survivibility, dps, and party support through healing and might stacking.

I won’t be looking for a new fractals build for awhile, 7k cleaving auto attacks are fun.

Gorni.1764:

I already tested several new builds in hotjoin and solo-Q and everytime I return to the D/D x/x/x/30/30 build. New traits (Burning Fire and Diamond Skin) appear to be useless. So our old standard-build is still the most effective build out there I think. It can be used for both offense and defense just by switching runes and amulett.
Unless you play well coordinated tPvP where your team carries you, you can’t really run anything else due to the lack of defense

i usually run 0/15/0/25/30 – what trait do you use in 30 water? because i found that mostly viable for aura share

Here I was hoping for something new to run on my elementalist that would break up the monotony of having ran the same build for over 6 months(srs, I ran S/D burst before FA).

After my own experimentation and what I’ve read here its either classic bunker or 0/30/0/20/20.

For kitten sake.

Well, EQN Landmark alpha starts mid. February~

Tarkan.5609:

Gorni.1764:

I already tested several new builds in hotjoin and solo-Q and everytime I return to the D/D x/x/x/30/30 build. New traits (Burning Fire and Diamond Skin) appear to be useless. So our old standard-build is still the most effective build out there I think. It can be used for both offense and defense just by switching runes and amulett.
Unless you play well coordinated tPvP where your team carries you, you can’t really run anything else due to the lack of defense

i usually run 0/15/0/25/30 – what trait do you use in 30 water? because i found that mostly viable for aura share

As bunker I trait 10 in earth for the earth armor and 30P water for the condition-remove on regen. As zerker I’d rather play 0/20/0/20/30 (instead of 25P in water) – I think CD-reduction on air-traits is extremely good on D/D because of the lower CD from our escape-tool RTL and CCs (Shocking-Aura and Updraft) – these spells are the most important on dagger to keep you alive (in addition to the weakness from dagger-2 – but this one doesn’t need the CD-reduction because of the low standard-CD). 25P in water isn’t really worth it anymore since the nerf. Same goes for Aura-Share: since Air-I has been fixed it’s a rather weak trait and this also makes aura-share weaker.
Aura-share would make sense with Tempest Defense (30P Air), I already tried that but the build has so many flaws – it’s barely playable and doesn’t offer much, even in hotjoin. Overall Tempest Defense is still a bad trait because the procc rarely comes when you need it (CC from downed-state, fears, ranged-CCs, etc.) – the only thing it’s good against is CC-warriors but these have enough stability to ignore it and you’re CC’ed too when the aura proccs so you can’t make use of it. The damage-gain from the trait is also laughable – only works with Aura-Stun (which you activate when you have to play defensively) and Earthquake (which has a kitten CD). Very bad design here …

MarzAttakz.9608:

… but it seems like more and more Elementalists are theory crafting some strange builds.

Have they (Anet) actually succeeded in promoting diversity? Granted it is too early to tell but there may be some hope for the future opening up the potential for refinement.

You are seeing so much theory crafting because nothing is actually working and people are getting desperate. Trying everything, scraping at the bottom of the barrel, and hoping some combo will magically work does not mean we have build diversity. The only diversity ele has is that there are many options that are all, just about, equally bad. You are always better off playing another class.

That being said, continue to play ele if its the style you enjoy. Most of the complaints come from pvp’ers who don’t want to be a garbage class anymore. Maybe when they make more balance changes 6 months from now it will be a net buff as opposed to nerf, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

BlackBeard.2873:

MarzAttakz.9608:

… but it seems like more and more Elementalists are theory crafting some strange builds.

Have they (Anet) actually succeeded in promoting diversity? Granted it is too early to tell but there may be some hope for the future opening up the potential for refinement.

You are seeing so much theory crafting because nothing is actually working and people are getting desperate. Trying everything, scraping at the bottom of the barrel, and hoping some combo will magically work does not mean we have build diversity. The only diversity ele has is that there are many options that are all, just about, equally bad. You are always better off playing another class.

That being said, continue to play ele if its the style you enjoy. Most of the complaints come from pvp’ers who don’t want to be a garbage class anymore. Maybe when they make more balance changes 6 months from now it will be a net buff as opposed to nerf, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Trust me man, I’ve played my Ele since beta so know what a bumpy ride we’ve had.

I’d like to ask people to keep posting their experimentations no matter how crazy the build. If you’ve tried them please post the results, both positive and negative.

We need to keep the momentum going, we need ammunition to fire back, if they choose to continue ignoring us, then we are entirely justified in no longer supporting them.

MarzAttakz.9608:

I’d like to ask people to keep posting their experimentations no matter how crazy the build. If you’ve tried them please post the results, both positive and negative.

We need to keep the momentum going, we need ammunition to fire back, if they choose to continue ignoring us, then we are entirely justified in no longer supporting them.

In the vein of being constructive, this is my current build that I have been doing o.k. with – depends on the opponent’s comp.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhImibyx5gjDAEFuYSQBBGUekzM2A-ToAA0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNEZSA

It can handle a limited amount of conditions, cleansing 3x condis once every 16s (cleansing fire + trait) as well as 2 when swapping to water (swap + EA dodge roll). It heals teams pretty well and provides good support and damage.

It does have a LOT of trouble with ranged pressure (power rangers can kill you in a couple seconds if they channel barrage, cc you, then spam autos). Blackwater and phantasm builds can ruin your day (but that is more of a general statement). Necros can rip your face off too, as you don’t have ether renewal (I really wanted to get rid of it). If the other team doesn’t focus you however, you can wreck them, and you have decent mobility.

However, if you are going d/d, this spec can work, but the 0/20/20/0/30 spec is probably better b/c you bring more burst, and can handle condi dumps better. However, ether renewal is really bad against burst comps, whereas the given spec does a little bit better while still being balanced.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAodhEmcbnxygjDIhHBgBUAjCdg4hF4AcIA-TsAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINs4YxsAA
great at duels and small skirmishes. dies when hit with an immobilize when ER and earth (4 and 5) is on cooldown

it’s too bad “fresh earth” isn’t a thing

Thank you for posting everyone, I appreciate the time and effort of doing so!

There aren’t a lot of options when it comes to SPvP.

Once the elementalist gains an unique profession defense that can be used with all builds, we can have build diversity I believe.

A mechanism that kicks in everytime you switch attunements with four different effects. For these to improve or change in nature you need to use the traitlines, enabling you to alter the effects to become offensive, defensive, supportive, or a mixture of these.

Attunement recharge rate (intelligence) should be replaced with a stat that compliments arcane utilities and/or conjured weapons, like Empathy in Beastmastery compliments companions. Concentration and Intelligence both increase much needed survivability and people are too dependent on them currently (intelligence being of less necessity after the dec 10 patch). Of course it is combined with the three marvels that are Renewing Stamina, Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana.

D/D 0/0/30/10/30 Diamond Skin Build … Spamable 10k condition with drakes breath, supported by Earths bleeds, 3k toughness, hight surv … Settlers or Rabid amu … Minor Corruption on one dagger, might on second … and its super fun …

Still testing, but for tPvP its very effective, require different play style kitten well… With Settlers, the DS make more sense, since u can be pretty much full HP for the majority of fight …

Malcastus.6240:

A mechanism that kicks in everytime you switch attunements with four different effects.

So basically what you’re saying is: Elemental Attunement and the 5pt attunement traits.

ThiBash.5634:

Malcastus.6240:

A mechanism that kicks in everytime you switch attunements with four different effects.

So basically what you’re saying is: Elemental Attunement and the 5pt attunement traits.

Isn’t this what a lot of ppl here repeatedly proposed and never got an official answer about? I’m being confused now

It isn’t build diversity to take away specs and force people into the same number of limited specs they had before. No longer is 10 Water an option, you now have to go 20 for anything decent.

Almost every ele will want/need 20 Arcana which baffles the mind as the whole point was to reduce the need of Arcana.

This patch has been a dismal failure outside of FGS being castable on the move. It didn’t reduce the reliance on Arcana or Water.

Taldren.7523:

This patch has been a dismal failure outside of FGS being castable on the move. It didn’t reduce the reliance on Arcana or Water.

They finally changed that? Wow, that’s good news.

Current pvp build that handles condi clears like a boss. Its meant for team-fights as you have a ton of aoe burst dps, but can bunker a sidenode as well:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmKbnx5gjDAkHuYCLDFdMSRROzA-ToAA0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+YSA

Notes:
-Lyssa is the best precision rune (want more vigor), and gives an extra condi dump + 2s of OP (elite worth using more times now, although I need to get in the habit of doing it)
-Cantrips are crap for doing damage – arcane skills give way better damage + burst
-30 water gives decent condi clearing and synergizes well with valks armor. Every water swap should clear 2 condis on team (that is about as much as a shout guardian)
-Rock solid + ether gives another condi clear

Perhaps this build could work with a bunker amulet (clerics)? Has good survivability, GREAT boon and condi support, decent self-healing. Maybe staff bunker with this setup works too?

Update: I really like this build. I will be adapting it (gear-wise) to wvw/pve b/c I enjoy being able to easily swap to solo-roam and group-staff w/o retraiting (this is good for both). The build should also have enough burst to take down glassy characters that stealth a lot.

WvW version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmKbnx5gjDAkHwYCLDFdMSRROzA-j0CBYgBkEBgKAM1MIZnQJqaslhht6KalXBRbDT5iIqWKA9UGB-w

I’d swap a couple of cav rings in when staff zerging if I am commanding.

ThiBash.5634:

Malcastus.6240:

A mechanism that kicks in everytime you switch attunements with four different effects.

So basically what you’re saying is: Elemental Attunement and the 5pt attunement traits.

I had to explain it simply to make it clear what I meant. Yes, like those things you mention, except without investing points in traits (unless for improving certain effects).