Guild Wars 2

Elementalist are currently in the best position possible. Needed in open world, dungeons/fractal, pvp, and in wvw. However in all of the contents scepter isn’t used much, if rarely. And when it is used, its mostly for swag since it is a half made weapon that gets carried hard by focus. Currently its just a blast finisher weapon at best, since S/F conjure build was replaced by phalanx warrior and staff eles. Also I don’t know why developers forgot about the best off hand focus, that has like the best skills in the entire games and synergies really well with eles.

Now since all developers play either d/d ele or staff ele in whatever gamemode they play, they decided to give eles new off hand. But then they also needed ideas to make it look cool. So they gave eles “overcharged”, very diluted and weak version of glyph of storm, and another offhand weapon that eles will never use because eles have focus! Also its obvious that developers don’t play wvw because hey, eles don’t have enough group support. That staff ele is meant to press 1s and 2s sometimes 5 in tequatle.

Tempests shows that developers know only 2 ele builds. D/D and Staff. If they knew about existence of scepter and focus, they wouldn’t have made another offhand weapon, but gave a mainhand weapon to replace scepter. Basically all elementalist players wanted was a different style of play that would still be useful in group settings.

Tempest is probably a last minute idea that a developer ripped glyph of storm off to make it “cool”. It will probably never be used in pvp or pve or even wvw unless a major overhaul is to come, but based on the latest BWE, that won’t happen. Tempest is a scepter 2.0 and it will be forgotten except when people want to troll.

If you think the overload effects are cool, plz slot a glyph of storm in your utility bar and use it. It provides the same effect, better result, and most importantly, doesn’t lock you out of your attunement enabling you to survive and be useful to your teammates.
And if you really want to do group support, no need to despair. You have a staff, off hand dagger, and focus. All those things do way better job than warhorn.

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Huh? None other Elite Specialization are like this you say.
Reaper… most of their skills are built around pve since they lack there in terms of aoe damage.
dragon hunter again built around control and pve.
mesmer pretty much got more support as well.
Tempest is all about group support and control.

also all elite specialization and skills were tuned down during beta intentionally. You really believe Anet inside testers are using the same build that we played in beta? This patch to the beta is built around insider testing, who likely are playing around in the new group content. Our beta test was a preview of whats to come, as well to test if the new elite specializations wont break vanilla content. All elite specialization were intentionally made weaker than their current build.

i makes sense for them to not be meta in old content because they are built for HoT after all… if HoT group content is built for something different, why build the HoT elite specialization around vanilla content? Makes little sense for them to do that. Anet simply handled all the info release and PR badly which is why the masses are so confused and mad.

Malchior.5732:

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Let’s see, the current heals on the overload:

• Healing: 392 (0.05)
• Healing Final Healing: 2,132 (0.75)
• Regeneration (8s): 1040 health

Those values were modified to:

• Healing: 392 (0.25)
• Healing Final Healing: 3,198 (0.75)
• Regeneration (8s): 1040 health

Compared to Healing Ripple together with Elemental Attunement which you can use about every 10 seconds:

• Healing: 1,302 (1.0)
• Regeneration (5s): 650 health

Spamming Overload Water on cooldown brings us to 251.1 hps with 0 healing power, 296.5 hps with 600 healing power (celestial spec) and 431.1 hps with full healing power build. Spamming water attunement swap gives 195.2 hps with 0 healing power, 292.7 with 600 healing power and 4’55.2 hps with full healing power.

If you actually want to heal I guess equipping cleric’s or at least celestial gear is something logical and then tempest loses or is equal to base ele. There are a lot of assumptions which can skew this base calcualtions, e.g. assumption that we won’t ever be interrupted during overload water or that we won’t ever have to dodge during the channel.

Knighthonor.4061:

Huh? None other Elite Specialization are like this you say.
Reaper… most of their skills are built around pve since they lack there in terms of aoe damage.
dragon hunter again built around control and pve.
mesmer pretty much got more support as well.
Tempest is all about group support and control.

Indeed that was the description and intent of devs. But can you show me that superior aspect of control that base ele cannot get? Or that group support which water + arcana cannot hold? Tempest isn’t even different from ele, it gets the same stuff done just in a different way.

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Huh? None other Elite Specialization are like this you say.
Reaper… most of their skills are built around pve since they lack there in terms of aoe damage.
dragon hunter again built around control and pve.
mesmer pretty much got more support as well.
Tempest is all about group support and control.

Uhh, and they’re not designed to be useless for old content? What’s your point?

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

I think GW2 will always be more about not getting hit (dodges, reflects, etc), moreso than the management of your health bar. If the new content really did require dedicated healers, I don’t think it would make sense to make the first real ‘healer’ spec a melee range class.

And the fact remains that yeah, for old content, there is no point in group support.

This is going to be a VERY niche spec, possibly only used in ‘challenging group content’, if that. Considering this is the first major change to classes in 3 years, I think we should have gotten an elite that (almost) everyone can enjoy. Later down the line, I can understand an elite like this, but not as the first one.

rotten.9753:

Malchior.5732:

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Let’s see, the current heals on the overload:

• Healing: 392 (0.05)
• Healing Final Healing: 2,132 (0.75)
• Regeneration (8s): 1040 health

Those values were modified to:

• Healing: 392 (0.25)
• Healing Final Healing: 3,198 (0.75)
• Regeneration (8s): 1040 health

Compared to Healing Ripple together with Elemental Attunement which you can use about every 10 seconds:

• Healing: 1,302 (1.0)
• Regeneration (5s): 650 health

Spamming Overload Water on cooldown brings us to 251.1 hps with 0 healing power, 296.5 hps with 600 healing power (celestial spec) and 431.1 hps with full healing power build. Spamming water attunement swap gives 195.2 hps with 0 healing power, 292.7 with 600 healing power and 4’55.2 hps with full healing power.

If you actually want to heal I guess equipping cleric’s or at least celestial gear is something logical and then tempest loses or is equal to base ele. There are a lot of assumptions which can skew this base calcualtions, e.g. assumption that we won’t ever be interrupted during overload water or that we won’t ever have to dodge during the channel.

A rather skewed example. For one, you’re comparing tempest line to 2 lines (water and arcane), neither of which is exclusive to tempest. Secondly, overloads aren’t meant to be spammed on cooldown. They are more burst effects if what you have isn’t sufficient enough. Even if you did spam water overload, you can still swap out and back into water for at least half of the hps the others can accomplish on top of what your overload provides.

Leo G.4501:

A rather skewed example. For one, you’re comparing tempest line to 2 lines (water and arcane), neither of which is exclusive to tempest. Secondly, overloads aren’t meant to be spammed on cooldown. They are more burst effects if what you have isn’t sufficient enough. Even if you did spam water overload, you can still swap out and back into water for at least half of the hps the others can accomplish on top of what your overload provides.

It’s actually skewed in favour of tempest, casting water overload once in a while won’t make it better than core elementalist at healing since the cost of that is nearly 28 seconds and losing water attunement swap (which traited is quite powerful) for 20 (15) seconds.

rotten.9753:

Leo G.4501:

A rather skewed example. For one, you’re comparing tempest line to 2 lines (water and arcane), neither of which is exclusive to tempest. Secondly, overloads aren’t meant to be spammed on cooldown. They are more burst effects if what you have isn’t sufficient enough. Even if you did spam water overload, you can still swap out and back into water for at least half of the hps the others can accomplish on top of what your overload provides.

It’s actually skewed in favour of tempest, casting water overload once in a while won’t make it better than core elementalist at healing since the cost of that is nearly 28 seconds and losing water attunement swap (which traited is quite powerful) for 20 (15) seconds.

It’s skewed in a lot of ways, I wouldn’t even say in favor of tempest either. I mean, what other aspects are you missing in regards to the comparison? Like the healing shout or aura heals and such? I’m not dismissing your numbers, just saying you can’t really put up a definitive answer with those numbers.

Alright, just calculate how much healing you can do with just the Water trait line and constant swapping VS Overload with just the Tempest line over a 30s period using an amulet with 0 Healing Power.

Lord knows that’s the only way to make him happy.

Malchior.5732:

Alright, just calculate how much healing you can do with just the Water trait line and constant swapping VS Overload with just the Tempest line over a 30s period using an amulet with 0 Healing Power.

Lord knows that’s the only way to make him happy.

Most likely more with tempest because it has high base healing but worse scaling. So now that we found a new role for ele (healing) it’s time to find a place in parties which would require it.

rotten.9753:

Malchior.5732:

Alright, just calculate how much healing you can do with just the Water trait line and constant swapping VS Overload with just the Tempest line over a 30s period using an amulet with 0 Healing Power.

Lord knows that’s the only way to make him happy.

Most likely more with tempest because it has high base healing but worse scaling. So now that we found a new role for ele (healing) it’s time to find a place in parties which would require it.

“new role”
It’s not like Staff Eles don’t already get relegated to “Healers” already.

Malchior.5732:

“new role”
It’s not like Staff Eles don’t already get relegated to “Healers” already.

I should use “/s” at the end of sentences that are sarcastic but then it would be used pretty much always. Sorry for that.

rotten.9753:

Malchior.5732:

“new role”
It’s not like Staff Eles don’t already get relegated to “Healers” already.

I should use “/s” at the end of sentences that are sarcastic but then it would be used pretty much always. Sorry for that.

Oh, I wasn’t trying to be snarky, I was more adding to your post.
I mean, Elementalists can’t do AoE heals effectively, so the Tempest should be a great addition then!

Malchior.5732:

Oh, I wasn’t trying to be snarky, I was more adding to your post.
I mean, Elementalists can’t do AoE heals effectively, so the Tempest should be a great addition then!

Now we understand each others.

So Tempest is the ‘new’ healer, aren’t we forgetting about Ventari Revenants, who the devs stated is the closest thing so far to dedicated healing.

99% agree with OP. I don’t think you are right about staff wvw, but that’s not what this thread is about.
The thing is, what can you give to ele without introducing mechanics/boons that don’t fit their theme, and what mechanics can you introduce to a class that is so well rounded? Or rather, to a class that has one single cookie-cutter spec to excel in every game mode.

Not saying that a frontliner without stability with absurd channel times to get the same results that vanilla elementalist can get without casting is not a hilariously flawed concept.

Speaking of which: wtb blasting earth fields for stability

Bawi.9541:

99% agree with OP. I don’t think you are right about staff wvw, but that’s not what this thread is about.
The thing is, what can you give to ele without introducing mechanics/boons that don’t fit their theme, and what mechanics can you introduce to a class that is so well rounded? Or rather, to a class that has one single cookie-cutter spec to excel in every game mode.

Not saying that a frontliner without stability with absurd channel times to get the same results that vanilla elementalist can get without casting is not a hilariously flawed concept.

Speaking of which: wtb blasting earth fields for stability

No one uses that cookie-cutter spec in PvE, but whatever.
Important: while D/D can do a lot of things, Ele is missing single-target ranged DPS, dedicated conditions, melee burst that doesn’t suck, and being able to specialize effectively in all the things it does(outside of pure healer in WvW and camping Fire in PvE for DPS).

Malchior.5732:

No one uses that cookie-cutter spec in PvE, but whatever.

Let me reword that for you.
A class that has one spec per game mode that dominates because it offers exactly what’s demanded (if you’re having problems grasping that concept check out the necromancer), but leaves almost zero room for alteration:
Max burst/dps in pve, aoe at that. Check
Point bunker in pvp. Check
Well-rounded roamer. Check’ish
Ranged aoe and water fields in wvw. Arrrrr, check

Let me know if you are getting it now. You didn’t really seem stupid from your other posts, so here’s me hoping nothing happened to your head lately.

Bawi.9541:

Malchior.5732:

No one uses that cookie-cutter spec in PvE, but whatever.

Let me reword that for you.
A class that has one spec per game mode that dominates because it offers exactly what’s demanded (if you’re having problems grasping that concept check out the necromancer), but leaves almost zero room for alteration:
Max burst/dps in pve, aoe at that. Check
Point bunker in pvp. Check
Well-rounded roamer. Check’ish
Ranged aoe and water fields in wvw. Arrrrr, check

Let me know if you are getting it now. You didn’t really seem stupid from your other posts, so here’s me hoping nothing happened to your head lately.

…………..NO ONE USES CELE D/D IN PVE.
That is exactly what you said: One build dominating all game modes. If you meant that Eles only have one viable build in each game mode, then that simply isn’t true. Even in PvE, people use Staff and sometimes D/F in optimized groups due to its superior projectile destruction.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Revanent is. It’s honestly hot garbage for the current content, so is dragonhunter

Azure.8670:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Revanent is. It’s honestly hot garbage for the current content, so is dragonhunter

There’s a difference between something that is not ideal and something that is literally useless.