Guild Wars 2

I can see cele d/d nerfs incoming.

Just please, this time, can we not kittening nerf zerk d/d even harder than cele by accident? Every time I read ele patch notes i see every d/d build that isn’t cele getting totally shafted by nerfs that target the exact wrong things.

Hit the burning application, hit the healing power scaling, hit the protection uptime sure.

Don’t kittening cut base healing values in half. Don’t cut vigor uptime in an attempt to nerf cantrips. Don’t take power dps off the set when 75% of cele damage is pure burns. Don’t take might stacks off of the cantrip fire minor, because that one’s only good for burst anyways.

They cant nerf cele d/d without breaking the class. Because its designed horribly. Tempest was their once chance to make another viable play style that wouldnt be effected by d/d cele and the blew it so hard it sounded like a WH

I don’t think base elementalist is horrible by design, it’s just plagued with a lack of build diversity, which many classes share, but the issue is more pronounced on elementalist than other classes. As an example, necros are forced to take soul reaping on every pvp build just to survive better, and curses is almost as mandatory for the damage.

Anyway regarding ele, they can only really nerf Fire skills/traits as nerfing water/arcane would destroy the class.i would honestly just nerf ring of fire a bit and change burning scaling so that burning is a fair bit weaker while bleeding gets a fair bit stronger to compensate. I mean I even take drumfire on soldiers reaper because that build stacks might as easy as ele, and I still get 800 burn ticks with 0 condi damage, and with cele that’s even higher.

If you want to do the job remove regeneration from soothing disruption. But that might hurt.
And yes ring and breath a bit down might do the balace job.

OneKlicKill.4285:

They cant nerf cele d/d without breaking the class. Because its designed horribly. Tempest was their once chance to make another viable play style that wouldnt be effected by d/d cele and the blew it so hard it sounded like a WH

They totally can. Cut burn application on breath and ring so the scaling ratios aren’t so ridiculous for all stats. Give the class actual active defense that’s independant of having vitality toughness healing power all in one build. Then it can be good without cele.

I see it coming too and its well deserved, together with hopefully some mesmer nerfs…
Theres nearly nothing, except stealth, that they can’t do..
Changes that I would do, that would be enough to bring Eles down to Earth again would be these:

Staff:
- Fireball Skill Activation from 1s to 3/4s
- Frozen Ground Recharge Time from 40s to 30s
- Healing Rain Recharge Time from kitten to 40s
- Lightning Surge Recharge Time from 10s to 8s and let it cause also Vulnerability
- Recharge Time from 30 to 20s
- Windborne Speed, replaced. Windborne Speed gets merged into Burning Speed

Hurricane that will cause at your place a strong hurricane, that will reflect projectiles and sucks nearby foes to your position for a while and that grants Fury when it reflects projectiles to you and nearby allies.
- Magnetic Aura that it grants you now temporarely Stability instead and lets you block the next incoming 3 Melee Attacks while its up
- Shockwave Bleeds and Launches now instead of Immobilize.

Daggers
- Reduce Dragon Claws Damage per Hit from 127 to 120 and reduce the Power Formula Calculator for 3,75 to 3,5. Increase its Range from 400 to 600.
- Burning Speed rechar Time from 15 to 30s and increase the Activation Time from 3/4s to 1s. Reduces the Range from 600 to 450.
Set the Base Damage from 679 to 500, Increases the Fire Wall Damage from 34 to 75. Remove the Evade Effect, add the Effect of Windborne Speed into this Skill, granting Swiftness and removing Chill/Immobilize.
- Ring of Fire Recharge Time s increased from 15 to 30s, Duration increased from 5s to 10s.
- Reduces Damage of Fire Grab on Burning Foes from 951 to 850, reduces its range from 300 to 180 and launches foes now away if hitting a burning foe.
- Reduces Healing of Cleansing Wave from 1302 to 850 and has now an increased Healing Power Calculator thats rased from 1 to 2
- Reduces Damage of Lightning Whip from 428 to 350 and its Power Calculator is instead of 1,26 reduced to 1,15
- Lightning Touch will get changed from causign Weakness to causing Vulnerability
- Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness
- Ride the Lightning can be used now only when you have a target. Maximum Range is now 900. Lets you evade Attacks now, but after using it will you be dazed now for a second.
- Updrafts Recharge Time from 40seconds to 45 seconds. Removed the Evade Effect. Reduced the Number of Targets from 5 to 3
- Ring of Earth Recharge Time from 6 to 8s
- Reduces Bleeding of Churning Earth from 8 Stacks of Bleeding to 5 Stacks.
Reduced Damage from 1104 to 900 and the Power Calculator gets reduced from 3,25 to 3. Activation Time gets reduced from 3 1/4s to 3s

Scepter
- Dragons Tooth gets removed and exchanged with a new Skill called
Meteor Strike
Meteor Strike is an AoE like DT before, but it causes not burning, it knocks foes down
and causes Vulnerability, while also dealing slightly lesser damage than DT. 700 instead of 764
-Phoenix recharge Time from 20s to 15s. Gives now when letting it fly over Downed Allies them a significant Healing and gives these downed Allies a Fire Aura.
- Increases Damage of Lightning Strike from 408 to 475
- Increases Damage and Velocity of Dust Devil by 50%

Focus
- Flame Wall Recharge Time from 20 to 15s. Blocks now also Projectiles.
- Fire Shield Recharge Time from 40 to 30s
- Effect Changed from Freezing Gust from Chill to Immobilize.
- Comet gets removed and exchanged with a new Skill
Blurred Vision Deal Damage with Steam, which blinds foes and weakens them.
- Swirling Wind gets replaced by a new Skill now
Shock Arrow
You shoot in a line of sight now a lighting arrow, that ignores 25% armor of foes and deals damage to all foes in its LoS. Hit foes will get crippled.
- Gale Recharge Time from 50s to 40s and lets you gain a Wind Aura for 5s, which causes Bleedings to foes, that attack you.
- Obsidian Flesh Recharge Time from 50s to 40s and causes foes that attack you in in that state to receive Weakness.

Healing
- Arcane Brilliance can be used now also too under water. Recharge Time reduced from 25 to 20s
- Ether Renewal can be used now also under water. Reduced Pulses from 8 to 5. Recharge Time increase from 18 to 20s
- Healing per cast of Signet of Resoration reduced from 202 to 175
- Glyph of Elemental Power Recharge Time from 25 to 30
———

Utility
- Effect of Arcane Power changed to: Your next six casts let you gain for 2 seconds Fury. Recharge Time reduced from kitten to 35s
- Arcane Shield Recharge Time from 75s to 60s
- Range of Arcane Blast from 1500 to 1200. Increased Damage from 345 to 400
- Armor of Earth Recharge Time from 75s to 60s
- Reduced Curing Conditions of Cleansing Fire to 1 Condition per Hit Target. Not anymore 3 guaranteed cured conditions, regardless if you hit targets or not …
- Lightning Flash can be used now under water
- Mist Form Recharge Time from 75s to 60s. You heal now allies if you move in Mist Form through them.
- Glyphs of Lesser Elementals can be used now under water. Summoned Elementals will have now under water versions.
- Glyph of Elemental Power Recharge Time from 45 seconds to 35 seconds
- Glyph of Storms Recharge Time from 60 seconds to 45 seconds
——-

Elite
- Glyph of Elementals Recharge Time from 120s to 90s.
Can be used now also under water.

And all these suggested nerfs wouldn’t be needed if they just toned down burning, might stacking, shaved some durations of boons here and there and ele would be fine. There is a very thin line between ele being strong and underpowered. We saw it not that long time ago when it was gettin replaced by soutbows.

Dude, you’re asking for a nerf to an unused skill cause weak.
Who really use fire’s AA ?? XD
Well i might use one every like 5rotation cause i need to buy some time for Xreason.
Starting your imput by a nerf to ele’s AA only make you look stupid even if the following isnt.

Orpheal.8263:

Daggers
- Reduce Dragon Claws Damage per Hit from 127 to 120 and reduce the Power Formula Calculator for 3,75 to 3,5. Increase its Range from 400 to 600.
- Burning Speed rechar Time from 15 to 30s and increase the Activation Time from 3/4s to 1s. Reduces the Range from 600 to 450.
Set the Base Damage from 679 to 500, Increases the Fire Wall Damage from 34 to 75. Remove the Evade Effect, add the Effect of Windborne Speed into this Skill, granting Swiftness and removing Chill/Immobilize.
- Ring of Fire Recharge Time s increased from 15 to 30s, Duration increased from 5s to 10s.

I don’t see this necessary, along with some other changes you are proposing. You are not balancing the class. With this kind of changes you are not focusing on the issue but nerfing the entire ele.

@Mattmatt
Is it my problem, if you don’t use all of your skills?
No.
Is it my problem, if you don’t fight effectively by using all of your skills?
No
Is it really stupid to not use all of your skills?
Yes
Why is it stupid?
Because you waste your Damage Potential and as you describe it self, it can still be used to buy yourself time, until you can use again a Skill, that you think is more useful for you at the situation, while still doing constant damage and each of the Elements AA’s are useful in different situations…

- Fireball for Might Stacking when traited
- Water Blast for AoE Ally Healing
- Chain Lightning could need a little buff compared to Fireball
- Stoning is self explanatory, AA Weakness is very good and that on 1200 range
—-
- Flame Strike …AA Burning, easier can’t you keep your enemy permanently burning
- Ice Shards could need a little buff
- Arc Lightning is damage over time that hits multiple targets in LoS
- Stone Shards..AA Bleeding, very good together with Flame Strike for Condis
—-
- Dragons Claw is Multi Hit, thus has more chances to trigger Rune/Sigil Effects
- Vapor Blade is AA Vulnerability, essential good for all builds to increase the damage you can deal, especially now that Vulnerability also counts for Conditions, which is another reason, why Conditions are so OP now, thats somethign that needs to get reverted back.
- Lightning Whip is op compared to Dragon’s Claw, because it has basically the same power, with lesser hits and cleaves and thats I think the reason, why you say, nobody is using Fire AA, especialyl with a D/D build, sure, when LW does what DC does and that better..the reason why I see in WvW Eles only auto attacking with this …
The cleave needs to get removed and it should deal only 1 hit, not 2 LW should deal AA Vulnerability. Vapor Blade should get changed to AA Torment on second returning hit.
- Impale is AA Bleeding, could need a little buff in form of increasing its range from 300 to 450 and adding cripple to it, if you attack with it targets, that have more than x stacks of bleeding

Orpheal.8263:

I see it coming too and its well deserved, together with hopefully some mesmer nerfs…
Theres nearly nothing, except stealth, that they can’t do..
Changes that I would do, that would be enough to bring Eles down to Earth again would be these:

Staff:
- Fireball Skill Activation from 1s to 3/4s
- Frozen Ground Recharge Time from 40s to 30s
- Healing Rain Recharge Time from kitten to 40s
- Lightning Surge Recharge Time from 10s to 8s and let it cause also Vulnerability
- Recharge Time from 30 to 20s
- Windborne Speed, replaced. Windborne Speed gets merged into Burning Speed

Hurricane that will cause at your place a strong hurricane, that will reflect projectiles and sucks nearby foes to your position for a while and that grants Fury when it reflects projectiles to you and nearby allies.
- Magnetic Aura that it grants you now temporarely Stability instead and lets you block the next incoming 3 Melee Attacks while its up
- Shockwave Bleeds and Launches now instead of Immobilize.

Daggers
- Reduce Dragon Claws Damage per Hit from 127 to 120 and reduce the Power Formula Calculator for 3,75 to 3,5. Increase its Range from 400 to 600.
- Burning Speed rechar Time from 15 to 30s and increase the Activation Time from 3/4s to 1s. Reduces the Range from 600 to 450.
Set the Base Damage from 679 to 500, Increases the Fire Wall Damage from 34 to 75. Remove the Evade Effect, add the Effect of Windborne Speed into this Skill, granting Swiftness and removing Chill/Immobilize.
- Ring of Fire Recharge Time s increased from 15 to 30s, Duration increased from 5s to 10s.
- Reduces Damage of Fire Grab on Burning Foes from 951 to 850, reduces its range from 300 to 180 and launches foes now away if hitting a burning foe.
- Reduces Healing of Cleansing Wave from 1302 to 850 and has now an increased Healing Power Calculator thats rased from 1 to 2
- Reduces Damage of Lightning Whip from 428 to 350 and its Power Calculator is instead of 1,26 reduced to 1,15
- Lightning Touch will get changed from causign Weakness to causing Vulnerability
- Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness
- Ride the Lightning can be used now only when you have a target. Maximum Range is now 900. Lets you evade Attacks now, but after using it will you be dazed now for a second.
- Updrafts Recharge Time from 40seconds to 45 seconds. Removed the Evade Effect. Reduced the Number of Targets from 5 to 3
- Ring of Earth Recharge Time from 6 to 8s
- Reduces Bleeding of Churning Earth from 8 Stacks of Bleeding to 5 Stacks.
Reduced Damage from 1104 to 900 and the Power Calculator gets reduced from 3,25 to 3. Activation Time gets reduced from 3 1/4s to 3s

Scepter
- Dragons Tooth gets removed and exchanged with a new Skill called
Meteor Strike
Meteor Strike is an AoE like DT before, but it causes not burning, it knocks foes down
and causes Vulnerability, while also dealing slightly lesser damage than DT. 700 instead of 764
-Phoenix recharge Time from 20s to 15s. Gives now when letting it fly over Downed Allies them a significant Healing and gives these downed Allies a Fire Aura.
- Increases Damage of Lightning Strike from 408 to 475
- Increases Damage and Velocity of Dust Devil by 50%

Focus
- Flame Wall Recharge Time from 20 to 15s. Blocks now also Projectiles.
- Fire Shield Recharge Time from 40 to 30s
- Effect Changed from Freezing Gust from Chill to Immobilize.
- Comet gets removed and exchanged with a new Skill
Blurred Vision Deal Damage with Steam, which blinds foes and weakens them.
- Swirling Wind gets replaced by a new Skill now
Shock Arrow
You shoot in a line of sight now a lighting arrow, that ignores 25% armor of foes and deals damage to all foes in its LoS. Hit foes will get crippled.
- Gale Recharge Time from 50s to 40s and lets you gain a Wind Aura for 5s, which causes Bleedings to foes, that attack you.
- Obsidian Flesh Recharge Time from 50s to 40s and causes foes that attack you in in that state to receive Weakness.

Just name me a single profession which would not destroy even the best ele player who goes and use a d/d set after your proposed “balance changes”, and this defeat would happen in a matter of secs: you made mele auto-attacks, which by general game design are supposed to be stronger than ranged, even worst than scepter auto-attack; you doubled and nerfed in damage/range all sort of mele pressure skills….just give me a single honest reason why somebody should use d/d set in this case

That you ask me this just shows me, that my proposed changes are made at the right spots, because you immeditely believe, that D/D wouldn’t be a viable build anymore, cause I made all the other Weapons as build options a bit more more interesting…

D/D is kind of meta for PvP/WvW roaming, because no other build of the Ele is able to dish out so much DPS, while still beign able to have super high healing abilities and good condition removals and doing all this dogether also with lots of conditions at the same time due to Burning and Bleeding, while controling the enemy non stop with alot of CCs like Stun, Launch and soft ccs like chill and cripple and that in an unbelieveable fats spammy way that places all the fast gameplay of the Thief absolutely in its shadow, because it has absolutely no limitation and can be rotated through not stop, cause your skill recharge times don’t count for all your weapon skills, while Initiative is shared between all Thief Skills, what makes our spammy gameplay extremely limitated, where an Ele just needs to change in a second his attunement to be instantly able again to spam 5 new skills and that 4x in a row in under a minute…

Why is D/D so meta.. because the other weapon options aren’t really viable everwhere in the game and not as good as D/D.
Alot of the other weapons have too long recharge times, especially the Focus and the Staff to make them more viable build options, while the D/D set is simply a way too good jack of all trades option, especialls when used with Celestial Set where that Set shines the most, cause the Class makes the most usage from having all Stats increased.

You want a single profession,. which would not be able to destroy the best Ele Player.
Simpple… Thief…. because the Class is after the Trait Change Patch so insanely destroyed, that we would have even after these changes probably a hard time to defeat a really well played macro’d Elementalist that spams through his rotations, because we lack massively in many areas, where the Ele is absolutely superb in…

Thieves have no access to Skills and Skill Mechanicss, that allow them to receive 43% lesser Damage. No Protections, no Frost Armor
We have only a poor 25% damage reduction, and for that we need to be in stealth!!
So to get Damage Reduction we are forced to use Shadow Arts, because Anet absolutely destroyed completely our other viable defense option that was Acrobatics to outmaneuver incoming damage through alot of dodges.

Eles have much better usage from Healing Power, it effects them much better, than it does for Thieves.. I could have tons of healing power and I still would be able to outheal with my attacks the DPS spam of a nerfed down D/D Cele Ele. Don’t get me even started on trying to outheal the DPS from a Zerker Ele, simply impossible.

Eles have much better and constant Condition Removals, than Thieves, we have only viable good Condition removal again when beign in Stealth and our Stealth is ridiculously underpowered again, compared now to Mesmers and soon in the future to Chronomancers that makes them able to easily get up to 52 seconds of Stealth!!
This is already shown in the Thief section via Video Proof, how crazy the Chronomancer makes Thieves practically obsolete!!

General Game Design… and you take this as a sort of Rule, that can’t change with general Game Balance Changes? Seriously?
Don’t you think also General Game Design can change, if it the general Game Balance requires to make more of the Elementalists Weapons viable interestign options to choose them situationally over playing D/D. To create more viable Build Diversity that way and to break that way up a bit the D/D Meta that you see practically everywhere only, unless you run in a zerg and support it from backline with the Staff, because nothing else than these 2 weapon build options are mostly viable now?

Part 2 for your other asked question.

The reason why a person should use after these changes Dagger over say for example Scepter is pretty simple.
The Dagger would be still the faster Attacker and would be still better at DPS, than the Scepter. All Dagger Skills still have faster Attack Activation Times after my changes, than the Scepter.
Dagger would still be the better option for Melee Combat, as Burning Speed would allow you now for its longer Recharge Time to have also Condition Remove and Swiftness from the old Windborne Speed being merged ito it and your Lightning Whipping would stay still strong, even if it doesn’t cleave anymore and deals now only 1 hit, but makes the foe therefore vulnerable, just dealing now slightly lesser damage to make the Fire AA more viable with its already cleaving multi hitting cone mechanic.
Theres no need to have basically the same function twice in a weapon build.

A little nerf to RTL is needed, because it made Eles simply too mobile, allowed them for too easy flees and is used together with a macro’ed updraft to use it also to instantly launch a foe, which is against the game rules anyways, because its an action that lets you do more than 1 thing per button press. To prevent this macroing, its neccessary that RTL gets nerfed with an automatically followed own daze, so that the character can’t instantly use after RTL updraft anymore.

D/D is used also compared to D/F, or S/F, because D/D provides Eles that insane healing options and the good condiremovals through Cleansing Wave, that you have only if you use an Offhand Dagger and only with offhand dagger you can have an on demand Frost Aura to increase together with protection your maximum damage reduction to 43%, what makes it alot easier for Eles to outheal incoming damage, especially when they weaken also foes, whats something they can do also too.

Evasive Arcana especially with the OP cleansing wave is one of the reasons, why eles have currently such an insane survivability… because they can cleanse and heal themself and allies on dodge, even if the skill of the weapon is on cool down, when attuned to water. It’s base healing is simply too strong for that and it should be only strong, if the player invests also alot into Healing Power.

Plus only when usign Dagger as offhand do you have under earth attunement a strong AoE knockdown and aoe bleeding skill with that you deal high damage and in regard of churning earths direct and condition damage currently too much, therefore, that it is an aoe skill that hits multiple targets and also cripples them.

Sure, reducing the Power Scale naturaly already nerfs the base damage, but in a different way, than it does by just simply reducing the Base Damage without affecting the Power Scale.

By making a change also to the Power Scale, you affect with that all Players, that are heavily build into maximising Power, so for example Zerker Eles and Cele Eles that get through it also a decent amount of Power.

By just reducing only the Base Damage of a Skill, you don’t simply affect only specific Builds, but you affect this way practically all builds, regardless of your Stat Point Build the same way.
So by adding a change also to the Power Scale, you make sure that this Balance Change affects Power Builds stronger, than the other Builds and that was also my intention with that proposal that Eles that use Power Builds get stronger affected by this change, than a player with a more defensive Stat Build that doesn’ use so much power, but rather plays Condi Build instead or critical hit build over raw power…

If reducing both factors in the end is really needed, is just somethign that you can know only, if these changes get tested out to decide, if its already enough by just reducing the Base Damage, or if its better to affect stronger Power Build Users for the game Balance by reducing also the Power Scale in the Calculation, like proposed for Dragons Claw from 3,75 to 3,5, what isn’t really THAT much now …but could be simply enough to make the needed difference.

Orpheal.8263:

That you ask me this just shows me, that my proposed changes are made at the right spots, because you immeditely believe, that D/D wouldn’t be a viable build anymore, cause I made all the other Weapons as build options a bit more more interesting…

D/D is kind of meta for PvP/WvW roaming, because no other build of the Ele is able to dish out so much DPS, while still beign able to have super high healing abilities and good condition removals and doing all this dogether also with lots of conditions at the same time due to Burning and Bleeding, while controling the enemy non stop with alot of CCs like Stun, Launch and soft ccs like chill and cripple and that in an unbelieveable fats spammy way that places all the fast gameplay of the Thief absolutely in its shadow, because it has absolutely no limitation and can be rotated through not stop, cause your skill recharge times don’t count for all your weapon skills, while Initiative is shared between all Thief Skills, what makes our spammy gameplay extremely limitated, where an Ele just needs to change in a second his attunement to be instantly able again to spam 5 new skills and that 4x in a row in under a minute…

Why is D/D so meta.. because the other weapon options aren’t really viable everwhere in the game and not as good as D/D.
Alot of the other weapons have too long recharge times, especially the Focus and the Staff to make them more viable build options, while the D/D set is simply a way too good jack of all trades option, especialls when used with Celestial Set where that Set shines the most, cause the Class makes the most usage from having all Stats increased.

You want a single profession,. which would not be able to destroy the best Ele Player.
Simpple… Thief…. because the Class is after the Trait Change Patch so insanely destroyed, that we would have even after these changes probably a hard time to defeat a really well played macro’d Elementalist that spams through his rotations, because we lack massively in many areas, where the Ele is absolutely superb in…

Thieves have no access to Skills and Skill Mechanicss, that allow them to receive 43% lesser Damage. No Protections, no Frost Armor
We have only a poor 25% damage reduction, and for that we need to be in stealth!!
So to get Damage Reduction we are forced to use Shadow Arts, because Anet absolutely destroyed completely our other viable defense option that was Acrobatics to outmaneuver incoming damage through alot of dodges.

Eles have much better usage from Healing Power, it effects them much better, than it does for Thieves.. I could have tons of healing power and I still would be able to outheal with my attacks the DPS spam of a nerfed down D/D Cele Ele. Don’t get me even started on trying to outheal the DPS from a Zerker Ele, simply impossible.

Eles have much better and constant Condition Removals, than Thieves, we have only viable good Condition removal again when beign in Stealth and our Stealth is ridiculously underpowered again, compared now to Mesmers and soon in the future to Chronomancers that makes them able to easily get up to 52 seconds of Stealth!!
This is already shown in the Thief section via Video Proof, how crazy the Chronomancer makes Thieves practically obsolete!!

General Game Design… and you take this as a sort of Rule, that can’t change with general Game Balance Changes? Seriously?
Don’t you think also General Game Design can change, if it the general Game Balance requires to make more of the Elementalists Weapons viable interestign options to choose them situationally over playing D/D. To create more viable Build Diversity that way and to break that way up a bit the D/D Meta that you see practically everywhere only, unless you run in a zerg and support it from backline with the Staff, because nothing else than these 2 weapon build options are mostly viable now?

People go d/d because PBaoe are the only things ele has got to deal with stealth spammers among other things like fluid gameplay devoid of ridiculous after cast times like scepter, so much that it can take up to 1.5s to rotate between an attack and an other on scepter. Basically we have a thief here asking to nerf the only weapon set ele got to counter them…kk

Well, i skipped last posts, this guys is arguing that ele’s AA are reliable, lost all interest in his saying, you should all do the same to stop feed the useless discution.

Nerf burning, do not nerf zerk, balances ele, #GG

Hey Supreme, ever thought about it, that each class needs also to have weaknesses and not only strenghs???

Because at the moment the Ele has nearly no weaknesses except of having not the ability to stealth and having no weapon swap, therefore that they are one class that has access to most skills in combat to swap elements out for versatility in combat, which works practically already like a 4x weapon swap for them.

I don’t know, how long you play already GW2, but I play it nearly since release and I can remember myself on times, where I had alot of tough fights agaisnt good Eles already, before they had all this power creep they have gotten lately.

Believe me, after some of those changes, you will still be good enough to fight against stealth spammers…just that you can’t mow them down in a matter of seconds anymore, what is likely what you want to defend here…
No fights, regardless of which class fights agaisnt which class whatsoever should be finishable in a matter of like like 5 seconds…
Any class that is able to do that, is absolutely overpowered and needs to get toned down.

Also ever thought about it, that it should’t be by design the task of Elementalists to deal with stealth spammers? The game has other classes, like the Ranger and the Engineer, which job it is mainly to do that… classes, that have skills to actively reveal thieves.

However, it surely could be an option for Scepter Skills to add to one of them a Reveal function, if it’s seriously needed to make it more viable, if the nerfs to D/D are then ok.

Phoenix could reveal thieves on its flight or Dust Devil together with reducing the Activation time of some of the Scepter AA to be nearly same as fast as the Dagger AAs, like reducing Flamestrike from 1 1/4s to say 3/4s
Or making Arc Lightning in its animation faster, that it doesn’t take 3 1/2 seconds anymore, but only 2 1/2 seconds to use it

Come on, don’t be so negative, only because someone wants to see some changes to your most beloved cheese build …
Theres always a way to come up with fitting compensations therefore that a weapon gets nerfed, when the only problem it is, that the other weapon options compared to D/D are too slow and your only problem it is to have a way to handle against Stealth

I think nerfing burning simply only wouldn’t be the right solution, because nerfing Burning would be a nerf, that hits far more classes that have nothign to do with it, that Elementalist is OP in general and that is not only the fault of Burning alone.

Why should suffer the Gameplay of an Guardian, whose only condition he has is Burning mainly by design, when the Elementalist is OP and not the Guardian?

Please give me a honest reason for it, why other classes that can use Burning should be pulled into the mud, when balance is mainly needed only currently on Mesmer and Elementalist the most? In regard of Mesmer its not even Burning, its mainly the insane combination of Torment and Confusion at the moment that they spam like crazy…

The weaknesses of each class are supposed to be scalable with the level of skill of the players involved into the fight, that’s to say they become more apparent as the level of skill increase; it always been typical of thieves to call for the “L2P” argument whenever it was necessary to defend the stealth mechanic in this game, as such we can’t have your average Joe who bought the game yesterday to jump on any profession and create troubles for you who has been playing ele for decades.

But even more than this…what’s the point of your struggle?…no dev would ever take your suggestions seriously..

Supreme, I have no problems with it, when I lose to a good played Ele from a person, who maisn this class and plays it also very long, thus has experience with it, but don’t think that losing to Stealth and losing just to simple overwhelming DPS are the same thing…

If you lost to Stealth from a Thief, this simply means L2P, because you didn’t know, how predictable the whole Gameplay of the Thief is, most likely, because you don’t have ever played Thief self in such a case.
Thats the reason, why this argument gets brought out so oftenly.
But in case of too much DPS and Condition Spam paired together with too good survivability and CC all in one class, theres not much to do about it, especially when the only options that are left for you in case of the Thief force you practically to play this class after the Meta, if you want to stay with it competitive, otherwise you are in a heavy disadvantage.

However, maybe I’m just only struggling with Eles, because Anet destroyed completely our Acrobatics line and the fact, that we get forced to use SA if we want to have any serious competitive condi removal..

But practically the most annoying thing about this whole build that annoys me the most… that Eles which have this super good survivability and control through lots of CCs are able to easily deal at the same time same as much if not even more burst damage, than a Thief and that simply through spamming through their rotations of RTL/Updraft/Burning Speed/Fire Grab/Magnetic Grasp/Earthquake/Ring of Earth/Churnign Earth and then lightning whipping foes to death if somethign maybe has survived this, until they can repeat that rotation…
So if Eles should not lose anythign about their DPS, what I can understand, then there needs to be put the nerf bat at least either on the survivability ,or the control part…

I don’t care about it, if the Devs take my suggestions here now serious or not, in the end they are nothign else than inspirations anyways.
But what i do care about is game balance and as i have said, no class, regardless which one should be able to have any kind of build, that allows them to defeat players in like 5 seconds, without giving them practicalyl a chance to fight back.

Other people believe, the culprit alone is Burning, but I don#t think that burning nerfed alone woudl make of for such a huge difference… Eles would be still able to kill players instead of in 5 seconds maybe like in 7 seconds due to burning needign simply now a bit longer to get the needed damage over time done.

I think it really can’t be THAT bad to nerf D/D in favor of making Scepter, Staff and Focus more worthful to be used…
Its 1 nerf for the better result of receiving therefore 3 improved general more useful build options for using Scepter, Staff or Focus over D/D

Orpheal.8263:

I think it really can’t be THAT bad to nerf D/D in favor of making Scepter, Staff and Focus more worthful to be used…

People won’t start using underpowered weapons just because you nerf the only viable one.

lol true facts.. I can also boast myself like you and try to tell people, that everythign that has been said is true facts..

And sure are my proposed changes in your opinion “crap”, because they would make your cheese build weaker, so that you can’t burst targets in practically a few seconds down to death anymore… true facts, I tell you, true facts!
Rocket Science for this true obvious argument /facepalm.

You know, other classes like the thief are far away from such insane burst possibilities, which require even to be first in the state of stealth that lasts only a few seconds and require to be self and the enemy within that limited time to be at correct positioning to be able to burst that much and even then we lack at all other things where the Ele is with his D/D build absolutely in advantage…

You say I have no clues of the game, play the thief and try to win against your ele build. Then comeback and tell me if you lost the fight, because I’m pretty sure, in 80-90% of all cases does the Ele under this current game balance let you win when a D/D Ele hits on a D/D thief …because they simply have this much better survivability, this much better control of the fight, once their rotation starter hit first successfully by launching the thief, cause a thief has sooooo much defense against hard ccs. yeah, Stability pretty much…(sarcasm), but oh who had thought this, its true facts!!
The most annoying thing about this superb survivability and control his, that they are at the same time also same as good in damage dealing, if not even better than thieves and don’t require for their bursts a gameplay mechanic first as preparation and don’t require that much of positioning therefore to just get a chance of bursting your target in a very limited time window.

All an Ele needs to do is learning just the right skill combination and spamming it through as fast as possible and even for that there exist many black sheeps among the players, that use for this macros..but thats sadly hard to impossible to proof.. oh well , again true facts …

@laraley: I have to disagree. sure people won#t use other weapons, if the made changes on them aren’t good enough to compensate for the nerfs, but if Scepter, Staff and Focus woudl receive changes, that make them viable good alternative options over playing D/D, I strongly believe in it, that alot more people would change their builds, than you may think that people will do that.
But sure, if the changes are naturally in the opinion of the D/D Ele meta community not “good enough”, then it will come only under guarantee to a massive forum QQ wave for the nerfs of D/D..thats sure.. oh , true fact I have to say ^^

Orphael – zerkers aren’t meant to be 1v1ers if they were then we’d all go zerk. Pretty simple. A DPS/zerk/marauder thief isn’t meant to 1v1 a bunker/sustain/bruiser….the whole point of a bruiser/bunker builds is to counter the zerkers and fight on point…..

Thiefs are meant to +1 i.e. 2v1 an ele. And you are plenty good at that. I have seen very good thiefs. You should be more conerned with mesmers as they are now basically better thiefs than you.

How did you miss the part where I play glass zerk ele. That was literally the whole point of this entire thread.

Yea meta ele is a thief counter. It’s getting nerfs. The point of the thread is that ANet needs to stop nerfing every other ele build as a side effect.

Take your thief tears back to the thief forum.

Orphael destroys d/d. Lol I main ele and I’m all for nerfs, but you are nerfing things like glyphs of elemental power and arcane power wtf lol. And arcane brilliance can be used underwater, ether renewal isn’t used in d/d and can be interrupted. Please don’t propose changes when you don’t even know the inner workings of a class that you don’t play. I mean you are complaining about thieves in 1v1s. Do you play thief? You are supposed to +1 fights, not 1v1. It’s so annoying that everyone that doesn’t play ele keeps coming here and saying how it should be nerfed when they don’t even play the class. It seems like you literally googled “Elementalist skills” and just changed skills you thought were good.

You seriously proposed to nerf churning earth? Excuse me if I white girl but I literally can’t even.

Yeah, please don’t remind me on Mesmers, thanks Mighty xD lol I know, this absolute true fact.
Thats why I put them in regard of OP’ness on the same level as like Eles, because Mesmers make Thieves currently and especially in future with Chronomancers, if this game balance stays so, pretty much obsolete >.<

The problem is, you can’t counter these kind of bunkerish Eles with even a bunkerish thief..

Because

A) Anet destroyed our second half that made us kind of survivable agaisnt the bursts of an Ele completely by shredding Acrobatics into pieces
B) when going seriously for a more defensive Thief build to last longer againdst these high condition stacks of Burning and Bleeding, we absolutely lack the power to be even a threat to these Eles, because they can simply outheal everything, even our bursts by just using their heals..and even poison helps not this much, because with Evasive arcana and their constant condition removals that a Thief can only dream of, they basicalyl can constantly remove it, before it becomes even dangerous for them.

D/D Thief simply lacks in everythign to be really a danger at all for a D/D Ele…
Thats what I mean,t that the current balance of this game practically forces us into the S/D, D/P and P/D Meta, to be even competitive together with SA, because anythign else isn’t viable anymore at all …

Thieves aren’t meant really to +1.. yeah under the current game balance it might be so, because the Thief is now so underwhelming weak after pretty much all other Classes received with the last patch so much power creep, that its alot safer for a thief now to constantly +1, than to do duels, unless you play one of the thief meta builds that are competitive enough to roam with them around solo or hold with them points in PvP, cause of them not requiring so much Stealth to deal enough damage.

I’ve seen also very good thieves and I’m sure not as good at playing the thief, but that has something to do with my personal little issues with hand to eye reflexes.
However I still believe that Eles need a tone down. I see it here in the forums and also ingame, that I’m not alone with this opinion, but naturally the opinion how to tone them done is from person to person different.

My proposals may be in regard of the chosen numbers maybe a bit too much, who knows, but I’m sure, they go into the right direction. If the Ele receives then also some buffs at the same time at Scepter, Focus and Staff to make these Weapons a bit more viable, I think we would see then also alot more build diversity and not only practically everywhere D/D Eles running around in PvP and WvW, unless you’re running with a Zerg, where you find alot of Staff Eles naturally.

I’m also open minded enough to accept, that when Damage shouldn’t get nerfed, that it would be absolutely ok also, if ANet simply does something about the too good survivability or control at the same time. What exactly is naturally then their job to decide.

Hey I feel you about not having a spec………guess what? Eles in same boat. Thieves don’t have a good bunker spec eles dont have a good zerk spec….so is that any reason to only nerf ele……?

We all want better balance.

Orpheal.8263:

Yeah, please don’t remind me on Mesmers, thanks Mighty xD lol I know, this absolute true fact.
Thats why I put them in regard of OP’ness on the same level as like Eles, because Mesmers make Thieves currently and especially in future with Chronomancers, if this game balance stays so, pretty much obsolete >.<

The problem is, you can’t counter these kind of bunkerish Eles with even a bunkerish thief..

Because

A) Anet destroyed our second half that made us kind of survivable agaisnt the bursts of an Ele completely by shredding Acrobatics into pieces
B) when going seriously for a more defensive Thief build to last longer againdst these high condition stacks of Burning and Bleeding, we absolutely lack the power to be even a threat to these Eles, because they can simply outheal everything, even our bursts by just using their heals..and even poison helps not this much, because with Evasive arcana and their constant condition removals that a Thief can only dream of, they basicalyl can constantly remove it, before it becomes even dangerous for them.

D/D Thief simply lacks in everythign to be really a danger at all for a D/D Ele…
Thats what I mean,t that the current balance of this game practically forces us into the S/D, D/P and P/D Meta, to be even competitive together with SA, because anythign else isn’t viable anymore at all …

Thieves aren’t meant really to +1.. yeah under the current game balance it might be so, because the Thief is now so underwhelming weak after pretty much all other Classes received with the last patch so much power creep, that its alot safer for a thief now to constantly +1, than to do duels, unless you play one of the thief meta builds that are competitive enough to roam with them around solo or hold with them points in PvP, cause of them not requiring so much Stealth to deal enough damage.

I’ve seen also very good thieves and I’m sure not as good at playing the thief, but that has something to do with my personal little issues with hand to eye reflexes.
However I still believe that Eles need a tone down. I see it here in the forums and also ingame, that I’m not alone with this opinion, but naturally the opinion how to tone them done is from person to person different.

My proposals may be in regard of the chosen numbers maybe a bit too much, who knows, but I’m sure, they go into the right direction. If the Ele receives then also some buffs at the same time at Scepter, Focus and Staff to make these Weapons a bit more viable, I think we would see then also alot more build diversity and not only practically everywhere D/D Eles running around in PvP and WvW, unless you’re running with a Zerg, where you find alot of Staff Eles naturally.

I’m also open minded enough to accept, that when Damage shouldn’t get nerfed, that it would be absolutely ok also, if ANet simply does something about the too good survivability or control at the same time. What exactly is naturally then their job to decide.

Dude stop. Thieves won’t beat cele eles not because of all the things you think, but simply because of the type of spec it is. Every spec has another spec it can’t beat. You can’t fail at bursting an ele then get upset when they don’t die. Let me remind you that eles weren’t even PvP meta before the recent patch. They were good for solo queue, but shoutbow warriors completely outclassed them in thier role.

Are eles OP? No. The term OP gets thrown around way to much. Not just in GW2, but a lot of games. Are eles good? Yeah. Every game has specs that outclass others. You can’t expect every class to be on the same level. Mesmers are better than eles right now! You shouldn’t base the power of a class on how good you are as a thief against it, especially when you aren’t playing thief in its role.

Should eles be toned down? I think so, but what you proposed is miles off. You just destroyed the d/d spec completely and gave the focus unneeded (but welcome) buffs. Did you know focus has a 4s invuln? Yeah I bet as a thief you would loooove that.

Dragon claw, ring of fire, updraft, ride the lightning, shocking aura, cleansing wave, churning earth is not the problem. The problem is the celestial amulet needs a small nerf. (And it isn’t the healing power. I don’t know if you know this but healing power does nothing lol).

Just wait and see what happens when burning gets nerfed. You have to change one thing at a time. You’d be surprised how much a small tweak on 1 or 2 skills can balance a class. You can’t change everything, especially when you don’t know how the class works.

I haven’t said anything about nerfing only Ele :P
I said also that Mesmers need the nerf bat also.. but personally I’m absolutely also for some nerfs in the thief meta, if therefore D/D becomes finally on par with the other builds and we receive finally some dire needed trait and utility skill merges as also a rework of the steal mechanism which is with 30s base recharge time way too slow.
Thieves need more options to steal boons, that would be a good help against Eles, if we could steal them their healing skill to set it onto cool down, or if steal would actually really disarm an enemy to disable as thief for a while that they spam their skills or change attunements like crazy.
That way we would have some counters to their control gameplay and would have with the ability to steal more boons and the healing skill a better way to outplay Elementalists, if used at the right moment right before we burst to prevent them from instantly healing them up back to full health again, so that our advantage of surprise don’t goes totally poof into thin air without any effect.

Sigh, to bring this to an end, I just hope, that the Thief Elite Spec will bring back some of the needed balance, so that we stay again better a chance against these Eles due to the Elite Spec traits that we will get. That anything will be among them that helps a D/D thief to become more competitve again.

Laraley.7695:

Orpheal.8263:

I think it really can’t be THAT bad to nerf D/D in favor of making Scepter, Staff and Focus more worthful to be used…

People won’t start using underpowered weapons just because you nerf the only viable one.

Well both are right :\, but that happens becouse builds that dont have big nor fast numbers showing up arent viable nor have other mechanics viable to play, thus some classes end up with better tunned up roles for damage in a damage mentality game, if aint doing it, build will end not working becouse cant kill.
The solution is not put weapons on a underpowered level but to make all others stats and mechaics viable, let my try to exemple, reason why ele DD is very strong is becouse it uses well all stats while most of other classes stats barelly work (barelly worths take them) it is a matter of “unbalanced” classes facing a suposed well working build wich has skills that depends all stats.
Its a matter of trade off and their effectivess wich atm is basicly a game of bring high numbers and burst to win.

I just want to throw a few things out there before the thread becomes too convoluted:

1) There is no base damage in this game. There is, however a base power stat, and that is what determines the damage in the tooltips. It is not possible with the game’s setup to nerf base damage, at all. The only thing that can be changed is scaling.

2) Certain build types have advantages against other ones. Bruisers (a mix of sustain, defense, and damage like celestial is supposed to be, regardless of what it actually is) counter pure damage builds (like zerker or sinister). This will always be true because of the basic concepts of these types of builds, and if this isn’t true there is usually a problem. So if you are playing a damage dealer and find yourself 1v1ing a bruiser, you have already lost because you made the stupid decision to go outside of your role.

3) Anyone who gets hit by churning earth deserves to die, either because the person that landed it is so ungodly good that they deserve the kill, or the person who got hit is so new or bad that they deserve the death.

4) No part of this game is balanced around 1v1s. In WvW, pretty much everything is part of a larger strategy that doesn’t take them into account much, and in sPvP, fighting is based around taking and holding points. While the latter often requires a sort of 1v1, this isn’t actually a real 1v1 because those don’t generally involve standing on a small point without using stealth or kiting.

Linnael.1069:

Daggers
- Reduce Dragon Claws Damage per Hit from 127 to 120 and reduce the Power Formula Calculator for 3,75 to 3,5. Increase its Range from 400 to 600.
- Burning Speed rechar Time from 15 to 30s and increase the Activation Time from 3/4s to 1s. Reduces the Range from 600 to 450.
Set the Base Damage from 679 to 500, Increases the Fire Wall Damage from 34 to 75. Remove the Evade Effect, add the Effect of Windborne Speed into this Skill, granting Swiftness and removing Chill/Immobilize.
- Ring of Fire Recharge Time s increased from 15 to 30s, Duration increased from 5s to 10s.
- Reduces Damage of Fire Grab on Burning Foes from 951 to 850, reduces its range from 300 to 180 and launches foes now away if hitting a burning foe.
- Reduces Healing of Cleansing Wave from 1302 to 850 and has now an increased Healing Power Calculator thats rased from 1 to 2
- Reduces Damage of Lightning Whip from 428 to 350 and its Power Calculator is instead of 1,26 reduced to 1,15
- Lightning Touch will get changed from causign Weakness to causing Vulnerability
- Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness
- Ride the Lightning can be used now only when you have a target. Maximum Range is now 900. Lets you evade Attacks now, but after using it will you be dazed now for a second.
- Updrafts Recharge Time from 40seconds to 45 seconds. Removed the Evade Effect. Reduced the Number of Targets from 5 to 3
- Ring of Earth Recharge Time from 6 to 8s
- Reduces Bleeding of Churning Earth from 8 Stacks of Bleeding to 5 Stacks.
Reduced Damage from 1104 to 900 and the Power Calculator gets reduced from 3,25 to 3. Activation Time gets reduced from 3 1/4s to 3s

Aaaaand you just killed D/D.
I almost reported your post dude…

p.s Hey guys, fast come and see this: “Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness”

dimek.4592:

Aaaaand you just killed D/D.
I almost reported your post dude…

p.s Hey guys, fast come and see this: “Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness”

You quoted the wrong person there.

dimek.4592:

Linnael.1069:

Daggers
- Reduce Dragon Claws Damage per Hit from 127 to 120 and reduce the Power Formula Calculator for 3,75 to 3,5. Increase its Range from 400 to 600.
- Burning Speed rechar Time from 15 to 30s and increase the Activation Time from 3/4s to 1s. Reduces the Range from 600 to 450.
Set the Base Damage from 679 to 500, Increases the Fire Wall Damage from 34 to 75. Remove the Evade Effect, add the Effect of Windborne Speed into this Skill, granting Swiftness and removing Chill/Immobilize.
- Ring of Fire Recharge Time s increased from 15 to 30s, Duration increased from 5s to 10s.
- Reduces Damage of Fire Grab on Burning Foes from 951 to 850, reduces its range from 300 to 180 and launches foes now away if hitting a burning foe.
- Reduces Healing of Cleansing Wave from 1302 to 850 and has now an increased Healing Power Calculator thats rased from 1 to 2
- Reduces Damage of Lightning Whip from 428 to 350 and its Power Calculator is instead of 1,26 reduced to 1,15
- Lightning Touch will get changed from causign Weakness to causing Vulnerability
- Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness
- Ride the Lightning can be used now only when you have a target. Maximum Range is now 900. Lets you evade Attacks now, but after using it will you be dazed now for a second.
- Updrafts Recharge Time from 40seconds to 45 seconds. Removed the Evade Effect. Reduced the Number of Targets from 5 to 3
- Ring of Earth Recharge Time from 6 to 8s
- Reduces Bleeding of Churning Earth from 8 Stacks of Bleeding to 5 Stacks.
Reduced Damage from 1104 to 900 and the Power Calculator gets reduced from 3,25 to 3. Activation Time gets reduced from 3 1/4s to 3s

Aaaaand you just killed D/D.
I almost reported your post dude…

p.s Hey guys, fast come and see this: “Shocking Auras Effect gets changed, it won’t stun anymore, it will cause now Weakness”

Yea bruh attributing this post to me is pretty offensive.

No the meta is fine lol… Don’t troll or I have to face battle you on my ele.

Orpheal.8263:

Sure, reducing the Power Scale naturaly already nerfs the base damage, but in a different way, than it does by just simply reducing the Base Damage without affecting the Power Scale.

By making a change also to the Power Scale, you affect with that all Players, that are heavily build into maximising Power, so for example Zerker Eles and Cele Eles that get through it also a decent amount of Power.

By just reducing only the Base Damage of a Skill, you don’t simply affect only specific Builds, but you affect this way practically all builds, regardless of your Stat Point Build the same way.
So by adding a change also to the Power Scale, you make sure that this Balance Change affects Power Builds stronger, than the other Builds and that was also my intention with that proposal that Eles that use Power Builds get stronger affected by this change, than a player with a more defensive Stat Build that doesn’ use so much power, but rather plays Condi Build instead or critical hit build over raw power…

If reducing both factors in the end is really needed, is just somethign that you can know only, if these changes get tested out to decide, if its already enough by just reducing the Base Damage, or if its better to affect stronger Power Build Users for the game Balance by reducing also the Power Scale in the Calculation, like proposed for Dragons Claw from 3,75 to 3,5, what isn’t really THAT much now …but could be simply enough to make the needed difference.

Skills still don’t have a base damage.

Don´t make it to complicated ….
If you want to nerft D/D and increase build diversity on ele a few small changes will do it.
Sothing disruption is the core trait for self sustain/link to cantrips. We all know cantrips are just the best option on 90% of all eles, leaving no build diversity there.
So: Remove regeneration from it and make 10s vigor.
Ring of fire doesn´t need 3 burnign stacks. Its used to stack might. 1 stack is enough an reduces burning significant for offhand D.

Then go to traits:
Glyps and arcante traits: increase CD reduction to 33%.

Earth: instead -10% damage (360) give +20% condi duration.

IT is possible to make an very long list, starting from elite going to scepter.
But these little changes might have huge impact on build diversity and the utter cantrip domination nerfing D/D most.

Greetings

Wolf

Supreme tells the reality.

I am playing this game from the release and %95 of my time logged on D/D for only one reason he mentioned, PBaoe…

All the other weapon sets of are horrible for me because of the constant and stealth evade frames. When I play against thiefs or mesmer in any other weapon sets most of the time I am pressing target button instead of attack button.

Nearly every class has a weapon set to deal with this situation, Warrior – Hammer, Necro – Staff, Mesmer – Staff, Guardian – Hammer/GS, etc..

So if you nerf D/D to oblivion, you have to give other weapon sets something to deal with constant stealth and evade frame.

And lets be clear about this, before last patch Water/Arcana (bunkering) characteristic of D/D Ele was stronger but it was pushed out of meta because of the Shoutbow warrior, now we have less healing power, a major cleanse mechanic is on 20s CD instead of 8 but now we are OP.

Why, what is changed, right we can go to GM level in fire, a class that has awesome sustain has now reasonable and sustain damage that you can win the attrition war.

So the problem lies definitely in fire line and burning for me the culprits are
-Auto cleasing fire with might stacks, I think this trait like auto smite condition of the guardian should only cleans 1 condition and it should not give that much might. Then you can say this will hurt big time other zerker builds that are not going for water trait line which will lack condition removal, then it should compete with higher tier trait like %10 damage increase on burning foes in master tier.

-Blinding Ashes, now this trait is a must for a zerker build that didn’t invest to water line or has no healing power in its gear but it is too much for bunkering D/D Ele, I think it should get a bigger ICD but another trait line which usually belongs to zerker builds, like air should have a trait that reduces its ICD.

-Burning, they should definitely do something about burn stacking, for 3 years highest one stack condition tick was 500 to 800 depending condi power, now we have a condition that can tick 2500 or more (PS. don’t drake breath to guardian focus shield, I don’t know how many hit drake breath has but you will get crazy amount of burn stacks.)

OneKlicKill.4285:

They cant nerf cele d/d without breaking the class. Because its designed horribly. Tempest was their once chance to make another viable play style that wouldnt be effected by d/d cele and the blew it so hard it sounded like a WH

lmao. great commment when i realized it was you lmao