Guild Wars 2

Just like the Build and Playstyle. Enjoy it, hate it, whatever:)

Cele S/D has actually been serving me quite well in pvp. I take strength runes (because condis aren’t a problem), cleansing fire over mistform (cap point), and persisting flames over blinding ashes (to make might stacking easier, plus get more fury, plus ring of fire is so much damage). The key really is to take the fire trait-line to get pyromancer’s training (so you get more phoenix-y and ring of fire-y goodness).

I feel like I have an advantage over d/d eles due to:
- Superior might stacking (you easily maintain ~20 might, compared to ~10 for d/d)
- Phoenix, Fire Grab, Lightning Strike, and lightning flash give you good burst potential
- Superior healing (both self and team) due to water trident over cone of cold
- Superior cleanse thanks to water-trident (an extra condi clear) and phoenix (another one).

D/D doesn’t really do damage if you don’t eat burns (and you have plenty of cleanse when you do), while you CAN outpace their heals by prioritizing your might stacks.

Yes, i would say the same. And your changes for Spvp are correct.

But for 1 vs 1’s good D/D Eles are annoying with Air, Aeromancers Training and Lightning Rod because of Shocking Aura. But depends if WvW or Spvp. Most of the Time im seeing Fireeles in Spvp.

But ppl are still trying to convince me to play D/D^^

And im playing with Hoelbrak in WvW because its cheaper. As you can see, i dont even try to get full asc. Gear.

Thx for Reply.

nice gameplay !

BlackBeard.2873:

Cele S/D has actually been serving me quite well in pvp. I take strength runes (because condis aren’t a problem), cleansing fire over mistform (cap point), and persisting flames over blinding ashes (to make might stacking easier, plus get more fury, plus ring of fire is so much damage). The key really is to take the fire trait-line to get pyromancer’s training (so you get more phoenix-y and ring of fire-y goodness).

I feel like I have an advantage over d/d eles due to:
- Superior might stacking (you easily maintain ~20 might, compared to ~10 for d/d)
- Phoenix, Fire Grab, Lightning Strike, and lightning flash give you good burst potential
- Superior healing (both self and team) due to water trident over cone of cold
- Superior cleanse thanks to water-trident (an extra condi clear) and phoenix (another one).

D/D doesn’t really do damage if you don’t eat burns (and you have plenty of cleanse when you do), while you CAN outpace their heals by prioritizing your might stacks.

try to survive against a capable shoutbow or engi without dagger main or focus offhand. even rangers can pose a problem if they use shortbow. dagger > focus against everything that has projectiles.

I love zerker S/D in WvW for roaming, prepatch 56021 was insane….

I found cele s/d underwhelming personally from being used to zerker, but at the end of the day, what ever you enjoy the most is what you should be playing

tried cele s/d in pvp and I can honestly say its on par if not better than meta ele.

It’s kind of hilarious that the d/d build carries over so well into s/d.

The ground targeting and burst-y-ness of s/d makes it funner than d/d for me. Thanks for posting OP.

FrownyClown.8402:

tried cele s/d in pvp and I can honestly say its on par if not better than meta ele.

It has a HUGE advantage vs. d/d eles – it isn’t even a hard fight. D/D does NO damage if you just dodge burning speed and firegrab, and don’t run through ring of fire. However, because you stack more might and have way more burstiness you eventually win and fight on-point – at least vs. most d/d players. I haven’t tried dueling any top ele (like phantaram) who plays much smarter than just spamming rotation 100% of the time.

One matchup that is worse for s/d is burst mesmer because you have fewer ways to interrupt them or pressure them while they wait in stealth.

Given that you spend more time fighting d/d eles and cele signet necros, s/d is superior in this meta.

BlackBeard.2873:

FrownyClown.8402:

tried cele s/d in pvp and I can honestly say its on par if not better than meta ele.

I haven’t tried dueling any top ele (like phantaram) who plays much smarter than just spamming rotation 100% of the time.

afaik phantaram spams his rotation all day, maybe with the difference that he dodges enemy skills in between but that’s about it. that’s the curse of fire line might rotation, the faster you can do it the more might, the more fire shield and burn and the more damage without having to actually hit burning speed or fire grab.

+ scepter/dagger has difficulties with sustaining vs ranged. you have no mitigation against it and can’t catch them either.

exactly therefor u run cele instead of zerk. to outsustain till u in or out of reach.

The concurrence to S/D (Cele or another Amu) is not D/D Ele, yeah D/D Ele is quite helpless against Fresh Air S/X but the problems are Thief and burst Shatter Mesmers, etc.

With so many stealths, evades and blocks it is really hard to pressure them with S/X. Lets say Thief goes to Shadow Refuge, what are you going to do burn Dragon Tooth and Phoenix blind to Shadow Refuge, they are S/X main damage, other then those (and specially with Cele) Fresh Air damage is pitiful.

And normally fights against those classes will not prolong so you can use yoour might stacking.

I prefer D/D because I can make life really hard to those classes depending stealth as defense.

Yeah S/X counter D/D but nearly anything counters hard S/X.

posthumecaver.6473:

The concurrence to S/D (Cele or another Amu) is not D/D Ele, yeah D/D Ele is quite helpless against Fresh Air S/X but the problems are Thief and burst Shatter Mesmers, etc.

With so many stealths, evades and blocks it is really hard to pressure them with S/X. Lets say Thief goes to Shadow Refuge, what are you going to do burn Dragon Tooth and Phoenix blind to Shadow Refuge, they are S/X main damage, other then those (and specially with Cele) Fresh Air damage is pitiful.

And normally fights against those classes will not prolong so you can use yoour might stacking.

I prefer D/D because I can make life really hard to those classes depending stealth as defense.

Yeah S/X counter D/D but nearly anything counters hard S/X.

The build doesnt use fresh air. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArYhcMozhNOwyB8RMQAIUzjRjCBGUrTXG-TJRBwA02fQzDA4bZAAnAAA

It plays like d/d where you focus on gaining lots of might to deal damage. Yes the aoe cleave isnt there so its a bit harder to kill thieves that stealth alot, but its actually suprisingly tanky and the thief will get tired of the fight or die to burns

shinta.8906:

exactly therefor u run cele instead of zerk. to outsustain till u in or out of reach.

if you run marauder you run focus, ranged won’t be an issue there.

I’ve run S/D since forever, and the new traits make it even more glorious:D

I’ve 1v2’ed a pair od D/D’s, and won, though I think one of em wasn’t so used to D/D.
I’ve dueled my guild’s top D/D, and we were at a stalemate for quite a while, until I let his burns eat through me (I may have gotten complacent as the fight went on lol)

I run Blinding Ashes though, which is super helpful in fighting those peskier classes like rangers. I haven’t run into too many that I had notable trouble against with my build aside from good thieves.
I can easily stand and fight against Lich Form and Rampage Wars (not sure if that’s a feat or not, I just see people complain a lot about em:D)

How do you deal with the low auto attack damage of scepter? I tried running this build and I found that I was constantly awkwardly trying to figure out ways to actually damage someone..

Triflux.8027:

How do you deal with the low auto attack damage of scepter? I tried running this build and I found that I was constantly awkwardly trying to figure out ways to actually damage someone..

1. Stack might. You should be at or near 25 might most of the fight. Between might from cantrips and all your blast finishers, you should be stacking up to TONS of might. Even scepter’s crappy auto-attacks HURT when you have 20+ might.

2. Get damage from other sources. Be smart about saving your rock barrier for the next rotation, so that you can Dragon’s tooth—> ring of fire (before DT lands)—> phoenix—>Earth dodge+Fire off rock barrier. By doing this, each rock goes through your fire field to stack burns (extra damage). Wait for them to dodge before using your instant air skills. You aren’t in a super-rush to get out of air, so missing an instant source of damage is completely your fault.

3. Land you phoenix properly once you have your might (and get both blast + 3-5x phoenix proc if possible). If you didn’t know, you should get at least 3 procs (phoenix passing through, the blast, and coming back). Use Lightning flash if they are at ~50% health when you swap to fire to land it (or no need if they are in melee).

4. You have GREAT burst while still being sustainable. After stacking might, gradually pressuring with burns, etc. MANY will die from phoenix + firegrab (cleansing fire can be used offensively here to both pressure with burning and increase fire-grab damage). Going to air for scepter proc + RtL or earth for earthquake will finish them.

5. Fire autos when you have lots of might do a LOT of damage.

BlackBeard.2873:

Triflux.8027:

How do you deal with the low auto attack damage of scepter? I tried running this build and I found that I was constantly awkwardly trying to figure out ways to actually damage someone..

1. Stack might. You should be at or near 25 might most of the fight. Between might from cantrips and all your blast finishers, you should be stacking up to TONS of might. Even scepter’s crappy auto-attacks HURT when you have 20+ might.

2. Get damage from other sources. Be smart about saving your rock barrier for the next rotation, so that you can Dragon’s tooth—> ring of fire (before DT lands)—> phoenix—>Earth dodge+Fire off rock barrier. By doing this, each rock goes through your fire field to stack burns (extra damage). Wait for them to dodge before using your instant air skills. You aren’t in a super-rush to get out of air, so missing an instant source of damage is completely your fault.

3. Land you phoenix properly once you have your might (and get both blast + 3-5x phoenix proc if possible). If you didn’t know, you should get at least 3 procs (phoenix passing through, the blast, and coming back). Use Lightning flash if they are at ~50% health when you swap to fire to land it (or no need if they are in melee).

4. You have GREAT burst while still being sustainable. After stacking might, gradually pressuring with burns, etc. MANY will die from phoenix + firegrab (cleansing fire can be used offensively here to both pressure with burning and increase fire-grab damage). Going to air for scepter proc + RtL or earth for earthquake will finish them.

5. Fire autos when you have lots of might do a LOT of damage.

Sounds tricky to use…

How does this compare to S/F fresh air?

Triflux.8027:

Sounds tricky to use…

How does this compare to S/F fresh air?

Not sure about wvw, but in pvp it does just about as much burst damage as an S/F Fresh Air Ele with Marauders (esp. after you stack your might), while surviving as well as or better than d/d cele ele. You would be surprised how many people you catch with phoenix + FireGrab and go down from nearly 70% health.

However, this is absolutely a brawler spec, but it offers more options and depth of play than d/d ele (which is very straight forward/has a low skill floor) due to your increased healing capability (which you should try to share), ability to dps from range (so you don’t have to YOLO into the middle of a teamfight to do damage), and more varied defenses (be smart with your blinds and kiting). Many times, you find yourself fighting basically in melee range, but because you aren’t locked there to do anything, you have many more options for intelligent play.

I enjoyed S/F ele prior to the specialization patch, but nowadays its just SO BAD. It was previously a little bit worse than shatter mesmer, but now it is so much worse in all situations that you can’t even justify it. Between loss of dps for s/f ele, gain in dps of shatter mes, and massive increase in condi and burst defense from shatter mes, it is just hard to compete as an s/f ele.

BlackBeard.2873:

Triflux.8027:

Sounds tricky to use…

How does this compare to S/F fresh air?

Not sure about wvw, but in pvp it does just about as much burst damage as an S/F Fresh Air Ele with Marauders (esp. after you stack your might), while surviving as well as or better than d/d cele ele. You would be surprised how many people you catch with phoenix + FireGrab and go down from nearly 70% health.

However, this is absolutely a brawler spec, but it offers more options and depth of play than d/d ele (which is very straight forward/has a low skill floor) due to your increased healing capability (which you should try to share), ability to dps from range (so you don’t have to YOLO into the middle of a teamfight to do damage), and more varied defenses (be smart with your blinds and kiting). Many times, you find yourself fighting basically in melee range, but because you aren’t locked there to do anything, you have many more options for intelligent play.

I enjoyed S/F ele prior to the specialization patch, but nowadays its just SO BAD. It was previously a little bit worse than shatter mesmer, but now it is so much worse in all situations that you can’t even justify it. Between loss of dps for s/f ele, gain in dps of shatter mes, and massive increase in condi and burst defense from shatter mes, it is just hard to compete as an s/f ele.

I must be doing something wrong then. I found myself at 25 stack of might, yet the auto attacks are still pretty kitten. Compared to D/D, where Lightning whip can hit for 1k each whip.

Dragon tooth is hard to get right as well, unless you stay in melee range.

I’m sick of D/D though, gonna try this build again later.

As Blackbeard already said, Key are the Rotations and Fireline with Cdreduction for Firetraits.
WvW is ofc a bit more difficult to get your Rotations right, as everywhere the Terrain is your Friend. But even open Area Fights are not rly hard for that Build. And ofc way more Fun than playing D/D.

And you cant compare the Autoattacks to D/D Air, but you have Rockbarrier, Air Instantcast and Fire 1 with high Mightstacks. Dont depend that much on Dragontooth for Burstdmg. You have enough Cc and Phoenix/Firegrab for that.

Your main dmg isn’t from the auto, the auto is more of just something to do while your skills are on cooldown and yer attunements are on cooldown, which isn’t too long.

In melee range, one of my favs is dropping ring of fire, dropping a dragon tooth and phoenix, if the get out, u still get might, if they stay in… well, fun times lol

At least people who understand that scepter is fun and even playable without fresh air. Once you got to know how to use your autos to do real damage, its not to bad. And blackbeard descibed one of my favorite tricks, fire stone barrier into your second fire field :-). This has less standard rotation. You use fire early, balst your flieds (i used arcane brilliance + shield) + earth to put barrier up but the rest is more situational.
An yep this does main auto attack damage :-)

Did you see the things you have to land in Blackbeard post to be successful with S/D Dragon Tooth, Phoenix (with Lightning Flash) and landing firegrab all during successfully blasting fields….that is just to decent damage, not like instagib damage of Mesmers Mantra + GS 2+3 + Shatter Combo out os stealth.

That is what I don’t understand for the people coming this forums and complain about Ele is OP nerf it, men should be first able to land that combo reliable everytime.

Personally I have no problem with S/D against Engis, Warriors, Guardians, Rangers what frustrates me is constant stealthting Thiefs, tons of Mesmer clones. They are pain in xxxxx with S/D.

Personally Phanta variation of S/F FA I like more, that one extra immobilize from Signet of Earth is what I need when enemy spends that 2 dodges to land my burst.

i know … condi mesmers kill me and the burst ones with PU are a pain. Huge stealth is anoying as usual.
And i used the earth signet for a while, to catch disengaging targets. :-).
But now i hope for a good addition with tempest for a well rounded build.

And again some Vids. Dont want to make another Topic.

Mixed with Staff. Seems Staff is doing well with Cele/Zerk too, even if im doing many mistakes on my first Day.

I tried this for a few games, and I got absolutely wrecked by burst, even from mere flies of the burst world like zerker ranger, and thieves just had way too much pressure on me.

And to me that doesn’t make sense. Would I blow up as fast if I ran D/D instead? The only things I can think of are the shocking aura and evade on burning speed, but I don’t think they’d matter too much, but for some reason survivng with this build just felt downright difficult against burst and focus pressure.

nearlight.3064:

I tried this for a few games, and I got absolutely wrecked by burst, even from mere flies of the burst world like zerker ranger, and thieves just had way too much pressure on me.

And to me that doesn’t make sense. Would I blow up as fast if I ran D/D instead? The only things I can think of are the shocking aura and evade on burning speed, but I don’t think they’d matter too much, but for some reason survivng with this build just felt downright difficult against burst and focus pressure.

One major difference why you felt more pressure was because it is harder to counter-pressure a stealthed enemy. D/D is easier to play in these situations because you can apply so much pressure via drake’s breath and lightning whips to force them onto defense. If you had experience playing s/f fresh-air ele, the fight vs. burst is very similar. In that vein, you do have some great tools to help with the fight that you actually have to take into account:

-Angle your camera straight up and use Dragon’s tooth, drop fire field around yourself. This is a lot of offensive AOE pressure that either forces them off or they will die if they eat.
- Phoenix is super-important, as landing a phoenix on a burst player will nearly allow you to 1-shot them (esp if you get to build up some might.
- Your blind access actually is very important. Being able to instantly blind to mitigate damage, and the burst from air 2 help end fights
- You have more healing, so don’t be scared to use it. After and initial burst, swapping to water for frost aura + healing should be sufficient to recover and pressure them into over-extending while significantly mitigating damage.
- Churning earth is worth casting while you wait for them to open up on you. If they don’t open on you, you get some extra might. If they eat it, they will die. If they do open and interrupt, then you didn’t lose too much.

nearlight.3064:

I tried this for a few games, and I got absolutely wrecked by burst, even from mere flies of the burst world like zerker ranger, and thieves just had way too much pressure on me.

And to me that doesn’t make sense. Would I blow up as fast if I ran D/D instead? The only things I can think of are the shocking aura and evade on burning speed, but I don’t think they’d matter too much, but for some reason survivng with this build just felt downright difficult against burst and focus pressure.

Get all up in their face for the zerker ranger, ride the lightning and lightning flash can be used as gap closers, use them to get close and after they knocback.
Stability will negate their pushback and you can keep nice and close with your interrupts and blinds. They are go down quick once you get a few solid hits on them. Interrupt and trapping them in a ring of fire will put a nice burn stack on them, which is great followed by a fire grab.
Use line of sight if you can’t reach them.

Thieves will melt from your ring of fire and a fire grab, you can stack might while damaging them since they like to stay close sometimes.
Use mist form to avoid any backstabs and stunlock burst, lightning flash for good positioning.

On top of everything Blackbeard said,
Ring of Fire is not only offensive but defensive, if you are unable to heal the best defense is offense and people often either sit outside or disengage to avoid entering the ring. Use any time it buys to stack might and/or heal up.

Get used to rotating water attunement for heals, sometimes it helps to enter it early to let the regen do its work. If possible, heal with a teammate, they will love you.

You will need to apply immediate and early pressure to an enemy don’t sit back and faff about. Get them on the back foot with early fire burst, save interrupts to buy time, disrupt an ability or save a teammate you don’t want to waste them.

Phoenix/fire grab combo is devastating done properly with might stacks. It is your secret nuke and will turn the tide of battle.

Really in love with this S/D playstyle. It’s phenomenal.

Thanks for the tips, I’ll keep playing around with it.

I think part of the issue is that my MMR is fairly high so I end up facing good thieves most of the time, and most people see scepter and immediately think, “FRESH AIR MUST KILL”, whereas seeing D/D eles make them try to pick squid hire targets instead.

Scepter has always been my favorite ele weapon despite its flaws so in glad that this playstyle seems viable, next beta I might try out some weird tempest warhorn variant without arcane, but we’ll see.