Guild Wars 2

They design a class, the elementalist, which is a hybrid.
We have several spells and weapons which are a mix of power dmg and condition dmg.
Even our overloads are a mix.
We are also hybrid in the sense of dmg and support.
On top of all this, we have low base defences (like low base hp)

So we need lot of different stats by design right?
That is why Celestial amulet was so good for Ele fitting the needs, more so than any other class.

I like the whole hybrid design of the Ele.

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

We still have these spells and weapons who have mixes of power dmg and condition dmg. We are still a hybrid of dmg and support. We still have low base hp.
We still have the same stats need, but are now without a Celestial amulet to fill that need if the removal of that amulet goes live.

So what to do?
Which amulet to go for?

It just feels weird to me, to design a class who is hybrid in so many ways and also has low base defences (need for stats there too, unless you want to get insta killed in pvp)
and that they remove the only amulet that really fits the need for such a class.

Dont they need to change us a tad too with the removal of Celestial amulet?
Like cant they increase our base hp, so that the need for extra vit is gone?
Edit: or easier access to more of one of the other stats that we need?

sage

power
cond damage
healing
health
and ele’s unique access to perma protection serves as your armor

reikken.4961:

sage

power
cond damage
healing
health
and ele’s unique access to perma protection serves as your armor

On light armor amounts of armor? And Toughness? All the health in the world means nothing if you take a TON of damage from pretty much anything. :p

reikken.4961:

sage

power
cond damage
healing
health
and ele’s unique access to perma protection serves as your armor

If you take this, you better just play Marauder. Healing power is not that effective if you have 0 toughness. Also, Ele heal skills scale very badly with healing power. You better spend that 1000 stats on DPS.

P.S: just to throw some number out there:
Wash the Pain Away
Berzerker (0 healing power): first heal 3560
Cleric (1200 healing power): first heal 3920

i might go back to zerk staff, or viper scepter, whatever feels more fun.

I hate playing bunker/tanks anyway, 0 fun.

Sunshine.5014:

reikken.4961:

sage

power
cond damage
healing
health
and ele’s unique access to perma protection serves as your armor

If you take this, you better just play Marauder. Healing power is not that effective if you have 0 toughness. Also, Ele heal skills scale very badly with healing power. You better spend that 1000 stats on DPS.

P.S: just to throw some number out there:
Wash the Pain Away
Berzerker (0 healing power): first heal 3560
Cleric (1200 healing power): first heal 3920

light armor 0 toughness with perma protection (tempest 40% protection) takes less damage than heavy armor 900 toughness with no protection

and I’ll throw some counter numbers at ya:
Elemental Bastion:
0 healing power: 778
1200 healing power: 1378

Regeneration:
0 healing power: 130
1200 healing power: 280

Soothing Mist:
0 healing power: 80
1200 healing power: 200

Cleansing Wave:
0 healing power: 1302
1200 healing power: 2502

healing skills (the skill with the dedicated slot) always have bad scaling with healing power. but nearly all other heals tend to scale very well with healing power

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Any of the 4 new amulets have potential and we still have marauder…

Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality

Paladin’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Precision
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality

I look forward to trying any of these.. I’m not worried about the healing power not boosting some skills much as ele has multiple different ways to heal. Thinking menders or paladin could be a new favorite. In all honesty, Celestial was kitten and a crutch for eles and i am glad its being removed.

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Assuming that the thieves don’t destroy us first you mean.

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Honestly that’s wishful thinking. I’ve played with you multiple games on my glass Rev, and you didn’t survive any focus fire on your marauder Ele. You got rezzed a few times from your teammates though. Like, as soon as I put a target on you, you’re into running mode and dead a few seconds later.

Now imagine a thief with 30% damage buff, and those Mesmers who couldn’t bunk anymore, go back to Glass burst Mesmers.

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

Sure Phoenix hit hard, but how many time you can land Phoenix for 8K without putting into Focus Air 5 combo or water 4/5 combo?

During the same time, a Thief will click teleport and then auto attack, deliver the same damage.

For the people who can deliver that 8K damage over and over with fresh air/scepter/phoenix I have the biggest respect but tell me realistically how many times you can land that combo?

By landing the combo, you are displaying 10 times more talent then the average Thief but what its the reward you are getting.

For me to one thing to be fair, risk and reward must be proportional also.

Why the Thiefs risk must be 3 but reward 9 and S/X Ele risks must 9 and reward 5?

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

posthumecaver.6473:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

Sure Phoenix hit hard, but how many time you can land Phoenix for 8K without putting into Focus Air 5 combo or water 4/5 combo?

During the same time, a Thief will click teleport and then auto attack, deliver the same damage.

For the people who can deliver that 8K damage over and over with fresh air/scepter/phoenix I have the biggest respect but tell me realistically how many times you can land that combo?

By landing the combo, you are displaying 10 times more talent then the average Thief but what its the reward you are getting.

For me to one thing to be fair, risk and reward must be proportional also.

Why the Thiefs risk must be 3 but reward 9 and S/X Ele risks must 9 and reward 5?

Well, I don’t think landing Pheonix is THAT hard. All you need is a bit of luck in terms of critting, not hitting when protection is on and getting at least three hits. I think this is possible to do consistently. I do understand what you’re saying, though. Pheonix is basically the only burst skill on scepter and it’s still a bit more difficult to pull off than other skills in game.

The problem is not only that, though. It’s been said over and over that fresh air survability and damage is not on par with other class and it’s true. You have to work harder for worse result than classes that are meta right now and that’s not right. This is why we’ve been asking for buffs to help this specs, it needs it in so many areas and if that doesn’t happen it will never be viable.

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

I was running marauder air earth arcane with pack runes. 5k and something with 3 crits and i had some stacks of might on. I know Phoenix can hit 4/5 time btw but i don’t think it is thale way it meant to work

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Btw Laraley I wasnt complain about Phoenix, i love it as it is. You said you dont know how hard can hit right by now and i simply said you that.

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.

Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)

Gokil.2543:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.

Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)

You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.

Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.

Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.

First of all, earth + arcana give fresh air a survability that is really better than arcana + water.
33% reduction on earth focus skill its just crazy, + you can use signet of restorstion for more heal + you can also use signet of earth for more toughness and the immobilize can give you a chance to land dragon thoot, and this is surely better than the boost damage from fire.
Even phantaram said this build is the best one for a SF build so…

Laraley.7695:

Gokil.2543:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.

Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)

You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.

Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.

Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.

I was running F/A/W back then, so I’m aware of the damage increase and BA. But that was a much different meta, can’t really compare that to now.

Comparing apples to oranges is obviously pointless, but why not just stop there? Arguing for the sake of arguing?

We should all be discussing the probable & realistic builds, as the thread was meant to be. Derailing it with these theoretical numbers do nothing.

@lucadiro, using “someone said this was best” isn’t a good argument. We already recognize the strength of the earth skill reduction + focus, but fact is, that build was/is/will be? subpar because it’s still lacking things that Anet won’t give us.

I said “one of the best, if not the best Ele in game” said earth is the best choise for a SF fresh air and i said that because people said me that earth is not worth to take.
Actually is under performing in this metà, but compared to how squishy is F/A/Ar is like godmode lol

lucadiro.4519:

I said “one of the best, if not the best Ele in game” said earth is the best choise for a SF fresh air and i said that because people said me that earth is not worth to take.
Actually is under performing in this metà, but compared to how squishy is F/A/Ar is like godmode lol

From watching his stream a bit back then, there was/is a lot of difference between EU and NA. Phanta would very regularly just push far and win matchups vs weird builds, or be in sustained teamfights without getting focused terribly hard.

My experience was a lot different. This was at the peak of mesmer+thief+medi dominance, and the game had evolved to a very 2-layered style. On one layer you had zerker roamers blinking, stealthing and bursting one another, and on the other you had the dd eles/cele engis/shoutbows and bunker guards fighting over point and assisting zerkers wherever possible.

In that environment, earth trait line became a lot less useful. The clashes would be so explosive that sustain was all but useless. Fire however, would regularly proc cleansing fire-blinding ashes after steal, allow you to phoenix burst far more often, and survive the occasional pin down+doom with instacleanse.

TL;DR: Sustain is only useful in specific matchups. NA ran into these matchups a lot more commonly than EU I feel.

Hey ele friends. I’ve been busy playing smash bros now but I might come back and try out some new builds.

I’m thinking some sort of mender amulet build would work. Either water/earth with staff or air/earth with signets and S/Wh. Though thieves will probably eat both of those builds.

Id like to direct you all to a suggestion I made that might help some with losing healing power with some amulets:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Piercing-Shards-Trait-Suggestion/first#post5931369

Basically, add a new effect onto Piercing Shards in addition to its current effects:

A stacking 50 Healing Power for 8 seconds (max 10) each time you apply Vulnerability to a foe while Attuned to Water.

This gives a potential 500 additonal Healing Power, which sounds very powerful, but due to the limited duration and requring you to be in Water attunement, it actually requires some play to get the most out of it.

I think this would work very well with some of the new amulet types being added, with Paladin’s in particular as it would add back the missing Healing Power if you play around keeping the vulnerability flowing while in Water.

I’d also find some fun uses with Cleric’s amulet staff build for sure.

Gokil.2543:

lucadiro.4519:

I said “one of the best, if not the best Ele in game” said earth is the best choise for a SF fresh air and i said that because people said me that earth is not worth to take.
Actually is under performing in this metà, but compared to how squishy is F/A/Ar is like godmode lol

From watching his stream a bit back then, there was/is a lot of difference between EU and NA. Phanta would very regularly just push far and win matchups vs weird builds, or be in sustained teamfights without getting focused terribly hard.

My experience was a lot different. This was at the peak of mesmer+thief+medi dominance, and the game had evolved to a very 2-layered style. On one layer you had zerker roamers blinking, stealthing and bursting one another, and on the other you had the dd eles/cele engis/shoutbows and bunker guards fighting over point and assisting zerkers wherever possible.

In that environment, earth trait line became a lot less useful. The clashes would be so explosive that sustain was all but useless. Fire however, would regularly proc cleansing fire-blinding ashes after steal, allow you to phoenix burst far more often, and survive the occasional pin down+doom with instacleanse.

TL;DR: Sustain is only useful in specific matchups. NA ran into these matchups a lot more commonly than EU I feel.

Man I not talking about the past metà. I’m actually someone that always had more fun to play 6/6/0/2 even before the specialization patch.
Now in the present, if you go F/A/Ar now, with every class is a sort of bunker, even if you land your burst with all crits, the damage get mitigated from the perma protection and ecery passive that there is in game, lefting you with no survability.
Speccing that bursty is worth only if you can 100>0 someone, or close to it, and now you simply can’t.
You talk for your experience, i can talk for the mine.
since i read about cele removed i played only SF Ele with every spec, and even if it is very underperforming, A/E/Ar is the only spec that give you the chance to do something.
Just try these build now for few matches in this metà

Take a moment to appreciate this person

And yes, its an ele.

Laraley.7695:

Gokil.2543:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.

Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)

You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.

Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.

Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.

To be 100% honest Karl in that twich was hitting an heavy target golem without extra toughness from runes and damage mitigation traits. So a Phoenix can surely hit more than 5k vs a target golem.
But it doesnt change nothing, as I claimed, with all the damage mitigation that is around now, Phoenix is not more bursty as you can think.

So Phoenix need a buff? God not. Other scepter and focus skill disperatly need it, and I hope next week’s patch will shave a bit the other tanky builds

we all hope that scepter a bit focus and wh gets love. Also after the changes i think RTL could get rid of the 40s CD again. Not to speak of our elite and other utility skills. HOT added shouts to cantrips but rest is still underperforming.

Does not matter what comes next after this patch. Either way Elementalist will go back to being burst fodder with their measly 11-13k health pools with no sustainability and extremely long defensive cool downs.

cobalt.1846:

Any of the 4 new amulets have potential and we still have marauder…

Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality

Paladin’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Precision
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality

I look forward to trying any of these.. I’m not worried about the healing power not boosting some skills much as ele has multiple different ways to heal. Thinking menders or paladin could be a new favorite. In all honesty, Celestial was kitten and a crutch for eles and i am glad its being removed.

Unlike other classes, our weapons, spells, attunements and such, are a mix of power and condi. So if we dont gear for both, one of the two will be in weak state.

Sage will be a weaker version of Cele for support aura ele.

The others you want to use for fresh air?

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Honestly that’s wishful thinking. I’ve played with you multiple games on my glass Rev, and you didn’t survive any focus fire on your marauder Ele. You got rezzed a few times from your teammates though. Like, as soon as I put a target on you, you’re into running mode and dead a few seconds later.

Now imagine a thief with 30% damage buff, and those Mesmers who couldn’t bunk anymore, go back to Glass burst Mesmers.

There is no such thing as “Glass Rev” when at 50% health, 50% of damage is mitigated for 6 seconds, perma stability and 5 dodge rolls. If you were using retribution amulet, there is nothing I can do other than relying on teamates.

Alekt.5803:

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Honestly that’s wishful thinking. I’ve played with you multiple games on my glass Rev, and you didn’t survive any focus fire on your marauder Ele. You got rezzed a few times from your teammates though. Like, as soon as I put a target on you, you’re into running mode and dead a few seconds later.

Now imagine a thief with 30% damage buff, and those Mesmers who couldn’t bunk anymore, go back to Glass burst Mesmers.

There is no such thing as “Glass Rev” when at 50% health, 50% of damage is mitigated for 6 seconds, perma stability and 5 dodge rolls. If you were using retribution amulet, there is nothing I can do other than relying on teamates.

Glass as in Marauder amulet. Now if you don’t think Marauder Ele can survive and dish out similar DPS as a glass Rev, then please stop posting those wishful thinking posts. It does more harm to the state of PvP than helping.

I don’t ask for a glass Ele to win a glass Rev/Scrapper/Reaper/Thief/Mesmer 1v1, but at least Ele should have a chance instead of being completely useless, instead of being a liability to the team.

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

Gokil.2543:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

lucadiro.4519:

Laraley.7695:

posthumecaver.6473:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Yashuoa.9527:

Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?

Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.

What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?

Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.

So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.

Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.

I would say something basically is wrong here.

So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.

This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.

However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.

I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.

Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.

Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.

Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.

Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.

Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.

> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait lines

In what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?

It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.

Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.

Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.

Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.

Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.

Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.

Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)

You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.

Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.

Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.

To be 100% honest Karl in that twich was hitting an heavy target golem without extra toughness from runes and damage mitigation traits. So a Phoenix can surely hit more than 5k vs a target golem.
But it doesnt change nothing, as I claimed, with all the damage mitigation that is around now, Phoenix is not more bursty as you can think.

So Phoenix need a buff? God not. Other scepter and focus skill disperatly need it, and I hope next week’s patch will shave a bit the other tanky builds

What? No one was talking about golems, but actual players.

The problem is not only scepter, it’s the whole class and I am nearly sure the balance patch won’t make fresh air viable.

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Honestly that’s wishful thinking. I’ve played with you multiple games on my glass Rev, and you didn’t survive any focus fire on your marauder Ele. You got rezzed a few times from your teammates though. Like, as soon as I put a target on you, you’re into running mode and dead a few seconds later.

Now imagine a thief with 30% damage buff, and those Mesmers who couldn’t bunk anymore, go back to Glass burst Mesmers.

There is no such thing as “Glass Rev” when at 50% health, 50% of damage is mitigated for 6 seconds, perma stability and 5 dodge rolls. If you were using retribution amulet, there is nothing I can do other than relying on teamates.

Glass as in Marauder amulet. Now if you don’t think Marauder Ele can survive and dish out similar DPS as a glass Rev, then please stop posting those wishful thinking posts. It does more harm to the state of PvP than helping.

I don’t ask for a glass Ele to win a glass Rev/Scrapper/Reaper/Thief/Mesmer 1v1, but at least Ele should have a chance instead of being completely useless, instead of being a liability to the team.

I deal top damage every game (99% of the time), so I got this going. And I gain much more survivability with Scrapper runes; which I tend not to use because I tried to push out more “potential” carry potential with scholar runes.

Yashuoa.9527:

cobalt.1846:

Any of the 4 new amulets have potential and we still have marauder…

Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality

Paladin’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Precision
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality

I look forward to trying any of these.. I’m not worried about the healing power not boosting some skills much as ele has multiple different ways to heal. Thinking menders or paladin could be a new favorite. In all honesty, Celestial was kitten and a crutch for eles and i am glad its being removed.

Unlike other classes, our weapons, spells, attunements and such, are a mix of power and condi. So if we dont gear for both, one of the two will be in weak state.

Sage will be a weaker version of Cele for support aura ele.

The others you want to use for fresh air?

I don’t use fresh air… Right now I use marauder with staff. While ele is a hybrid class I choose to focus power and burst damage. I just recently changed my build to the one that was posted in the pvp forum, it works very well for me. If people really want some sort of celestial they could try the divinity rune with the paladin amulet.

Alekt.5803:

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

Sunshine.5014:

Alekt.5803:

With the removal of bunker amulets, marauder staff cleaving on point will become much more deadly than it used to be. So, we still have this running.

Honestly that’s wishful thinking. I’ve played with you multiple games on my glass Rev, and you didn’t survive any focus fire on your marauder Ele. You got rezzed a few times from your teammates though. Like, as soon as I put a target on you, you’re into running mode and dead a few seconds later.

Now imagine a thief with 30% damage buff, and those Mesmers who couldn’t bunk anymore, go back to Glass burst Mesmers.

There is no such thing as “Glass Rev” when at 50% health, 50% of damage is mitigated for 6 seconds, perma stability and 5 dodge rolls. If you were using retribution amulet, there is nothing I can do other than relying on teamates.

Glass as in Marauder amulet. Now if you don’t think Marauder Ele can survive and dish out similar DPS as a glass Rev, then please stop posting those wishful thinking posts. It does more harm to the state of PvP than helping.

I don’t ask for a glass Ele to win a glass Rev/Scrapper/Reaper/Thief/Mesmer 1v1, but at least Ele should have a chance instead of being completely useless, instead of being a liability to the team.

I deal top damage every game (99% of the time), so I got this going. And I gain much more survivability with Scrapper runes; which I tend not to use because I tried to push out more “potential” carry potential with scholar runes.

You’ll only ever do massive damage vs teams who don’t know your build and don’t go out of their way to focus you. When they do, you die quickly. Given that thieves are getting buffed, you’re certainly optimistic if you think you’ll still be able to do your damage without harassment.

With support classes leaving the meta, you won’t even be getting as much help from teammates. In these circumstances, a DPS who can also survive against focus will always be more useful than one who can’t. I’m pretty sure this was his point, and it’s true.

I would like Wanderers swaping Precision/Toughness.
This one would be great:

1050 condi damage
1050 toughness
560 Precision
560 Healing Power

Wolfric.9380:

I would like Wanderers swaping Precision/Toughness.
This one would be great:

1050 condi damage
1050 toughness
560 Precision
560 Healing Power

No vit though.

I am not asking for OP amus. Just a bit better fitting. If i want a combat amu i might take the new mercenary. For my fighter i will go paladin after patch ….
I already use wanderers. It suits me but its a bit ……..

Maurader Amulet + rune of the soldier works great for me. Spam shouts for condition removal, use air overload +obsidian flesh, repeat