Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview/page/29#post3156808

JonPeters.5630:

Here is a summary of the changes we have made thus far based on feedback we have read. This is not necessarily the end of adjustments, but where we stand currently. There were a lot of good suggestions, and some of them may not be able to make it due to time constraints on testing and implementation. Please continue to give feedback over the course of the next few days. We will continue to monitor that feedback and take it into account in changes we make for this patch and for the future.

ELEMENTALIST

• Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
• Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
• Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
• Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.
• Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incmoing critical hits. 10s recharge.

ENGINEER

• Power Shoes is going to function outside of combat.

MESMER

• Confounding Suggestions – We will merge the old functionality with the new functionality. It will now have 50% change to stun on daze and increase daze duration by 25%.

THIEF

• Vigorous Recovery: Vigor duration will be 5 seconds instead of 4.
• Bountiful Theft will come down to a 10s Vigor instead of 8s.

WARRIOR

• Combustive Shot. To clarify this change, the damage is normalized to about 15% less physical damage than it used to do at all adrenaline levels, but that the damage per pulse is the same regardless of adrenaline level.

Reminder, we will be locking this thread near the end of the week.

Thanks,

Jon

Wow, that’s really huge!

First, thank you for not moving Renewing Stamina. I agree that the trait is a bit OP, but in their current state (mainly the low health pool), they’re in a situation where this trait is semi-mandatory for many players. It’s nice to see you guys saw that by moving this up, it would destroy the old D/D Ele once and for all, and thus by not moving it, you’ve allowed it to stay alive. For that, for listening to our concerns, I am very greatful. Renewing Stamina is also more or less a necessary trait for Eles in PUG Dungeon runs. By allowing us to make this small investment, it allows glassy Eles in PUG Dungeons to remain a reasonable choice (Vigor on crit is that important to the class).

Second, I actually really do like the movement of Cantrip Mastery down to Adept tier. I know many Eles preferred Soothing Disruption, but I really do feel that Cantrip Mastery is the more generally useful of the two. I really do like the change.

Finally, Soothing Wave’s change seems pretty amazing. That synergy with Cleansing Water could be huge. Also, a full boon duration Elementalist could truly keep perma Regeneration (they already sort of could with just Elemental Attunement). I think that people won’t realize just how strong 3 seconds of Regen every 10 seconds is, modifable by boon duration, but I’m sure people will eventually see just how powerful this could be.

I like these changes and I am satisfied.

All I can say is: phew

Flux Qemist.6712:

All I can say is: phew

Agreed renewing and elemental attunement both at master would have been a killer.

How is renewing stamina OP? Guardian has the exact same spell at the 5 spot, so they don’t have to waste a trait. Additionally, Guardians have multiple blinds and aegis at their disposal, so vigor isn’t even as critical to them as it is for elementalists.

JonPeters.5630:

DiogoSilva.7089:

JonPeters.5630:

ELEMENTALIST

• Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
• Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
• Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
• Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.

Yay! But it is not clear if Soothing Wave and Cleansing Wave will remain at their respective tiers, or if they’ll be swapped.

• Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits. 10s recharge.

Interesting design, but it has some issues.

I assume this will be adept tier, right? Seems about right in power-level.

I misread at first and thought it would spec on our own critical hits, and that this trait would synergize well with air magic’s Soothing Winds. Apparently, that’s not what happens.

What I question about this redesign, is its synergy with the grandmaster Cleansing Water. If a player wishes to combine both for condition removal, which seems to be a very intuitive combo, the results aren’t going to be satisfying due to how unreliable it is. For example, what if I don’t have any condition on me once it triggers? Will it trigger and waste cleansing water’s cooldown? And even if it doesn’t, after getting critically hit, I would have to wait 10s until this combo could potentially do anything. It feels that both traits would combine poorly with each other, which is misleading, as their effects imply otherwise.

Perhaps a possible solution would be to reduce soothing wave’s cooldown to 5s, so that when combined with cleansing water, the combo is powerful enough to justify investing on a grandmaster trait just for it. The regen duration would need to be lower, of course, to 2s maybe. Would that make it too strong, considering it would make the trait individually stronger than what you have in mind?

Also, can the AI in pve critically hit? I honestly don’t know this, but I hope they can.

The design for soothing wave is that it won’t trigger the ICD unless it actually removes a condition.

I won’t conclude that soothing mist is OP just yet.

It requires 2 conditions to proc it. You need to have conditions and getting crits.

I think just having it proc on receiving crit will be much better than to meet all the conditions.

The Great Al.2546:

How is renewing stamina OP? Guardian has the exact same spell at the 5 spot, so they don’t have to waste a trait. Additionally, Guardians have multiple blinds and aegis at their disposal, so vigor isn’t even as critical to them as it is for elementalists.

It’s OP for Guardian and Mesmer as well. :X

I had a warrior alt ready just in case they moved renewing stamina to master tier.
They have averted a catastrophe.

Well that’s one catastrophe averted.

Ouch bunker healing build eles will become a pain to beat with this incoming Soothing Wave redesign. I guess I have to burst more now with this patch.

It’s awesome that they are finally listening to the community before implementing such detrimental changes.

But I would like to point out the decision of moving Arcane Resurrection to Master tier. As if anybody ever uses that trait. Redesigning the trait in a way that it is a worthy Master tier trait would help a lot. Like if it triggers the aura if you are reviving an ally and not after the revive has succeeded would be a good start. But even if this were the case, it’s still one of those many traits that will never be seen being used.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Ouch bunker healing build eles will become a pain to beat with this incoming Soothing Wave redesign. I guess I have to burst more now with this patch.

More sustain I love it and you don’t have to go all out boon duration to keep decent uptime on regen

oZii.2864:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Ouch bunker healing build eles will become a pain to beat with this incoming Soothing Wave redesign. I guess I have to burst more now with this patch.

More sustain I love it and you don’t have to go all out boon duration to keep decent uptime on regen

And I thought the purpose of these trait reshuffling and stuff was to reduce the dependency of elementalists on the Water and Arcana trait lines. Oh, the irony.

But don’t get me wrong though. I’m not saying they should not proceed with the suggested change. It is a good change in fact. That’s one useless trait being modified and improved and that’s a very good thing. I just wish they push more modifications like this in the other trait lines though.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

It’s awesome that they are finally listening to the community before implementing such detrimental changes.

But I would like to point out the decision of moving Arcane Resurrection to Master tier. As if anybody ever uses that trait. Redesigning the trait in a way that it is a worthy Master tier trait would help a lot. Like if it triggers the aura if you are reviving an ally and not after the revive has succeeded would be a good start. But even if this were the case, it’s still one of those many traits that will never be seen being used.

I’m sure they will improve or even redesign the whole trait now that it is going to a higher tier. Soothing wave is an example of this possibility. I’m going to protest that soothing wave should be a grandmaster trait in fire and not a master trait in water…. I’m getting intimated by this trait because I just faced the most challenging bunker/healing ele (Serane from SoS server) tonight and even though it went both sides of wins and loses, I was sweating bullets on every duel lol. I can just imagine how much harder he will be with this trait o.O.

Hey guys, at this moment I’m running V (Elemental Attunement), VI (Renewing Stamina) and XI (Evasive Arcana).

They mentioned that they’re gonna move Elemental Attunement up to Master, which means when they do, I can’t do this any more?

=/

kythor.7650:

Hey guys, at this moment I’m running V (Elemental Attunement), VI (Renewing Stamina) and XI (Evasive Arcana).

They mentioned that they’re gonna move Elemental Attunement up to Master, which means when they do, I can’t do this any more?

=/

You still can. Renewing Stamina stays in Adept tier.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

kythor.7650:

Hey guys, at this moment I’m running V (Elemental Attunement), VI (Renewing Stamina) and XI (Evasive Arcana).

They mentioned that they’re gonna move Elemental Attunement up to Master, which means when they do, I can’t do this any more?

=/

You still can. Renewing Stamina stays in Adept tier.

Oh dear, I’ve always thought that it’s in Master tier. Thanks though!

Gallrvaghn.4921:

oZii.2864:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Ouch bunker healing build eles will become a pain to beat with this incoming Soothing Wave redesign. I guess I have to burst more now with this patch.

More sustain I love it and you don’t have to go all out boon duration to keep decent uptime on regen

And I thought the purpose of these trait reshuffling and stuff was to reduce the dependency of elementalists on the Water and Arcana trait lines. Oh, the irony

But don’t get me wrong though. I’m not saying they should not proceed with the suggested change. It is a good change in fact. That’s one useless trait being modified and improved and that’s a very good thing. I just wish they push more modifications like this in the other trait lines though.

I feel that in order to make ppl less relying on DD arcane or bunker ele builds, we should just open up more build possibilities instead of trying to nerf water or arcane. The problem we faced most the time was the low dmg and slow animation in most skills. Thats why we are focusing on heavy rotation. Which needed arcane. And water is for survivability if we are going so close to enemy with just cloth and little hp. I feel the source of problem lies in our options. Our only far ranged weapon that can keep us safe is the Staff. But Staff has horrible offensive skills and low dps and uber slow animation. We can never be a nuker or glass cannon in range. No amount of changes to the fire/ lightning traits can help us if we are gonna rely on water and arcane as our staple. Earth is worse. We get targetted if we increase toughness. And condition isnt working as well as burst dps.

Kuodo.9270:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

oZii.2864:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Ouch bunker healing build eles will become a pain to beat with this incoming Soothing Wave redesign. I guess I have to burst more now with this patch.

More sustain I love it and you don’t have to go all out boon duration to keep decent uptime on regen

And I thought the purpose of these trait reshuffling and stuff was to reduce the dependency of elementalists on the Water and Arcana trait lines. Oh, the irony

But don’t get me wrong though. I’m not saying they should not proceed with the suggested change. It is a good change in fact. That’s one useless trait being modified and improved and that’s a very good thing. I just wish they push more modifications like this in the other trait lines though.

I feel that in order to make ppl less relying on DD arcane or bunker ele builds, we should just open up more build possibilities instead of trying to nerf water or arcane. The problem we faced most the time was the low dmg and slow animation in most skills. Thats why we are focusing on heavy rotation. Which needed arcane. And water is for survivability if we are going so close to enemy with just cloth and little hp. I feel the source of problem lies in our options. Our only far ranged weapon that can keep us safe is the Staff. But Staff has horrible offensive skills and low dps and uber slow animation. We can never be a nuker or glass cannon in range. No amount of changes to the fire/ lightning traits can help us if we are gonna rely on water and arcane as our staple. Earth is worse. We get targetted if we increase toughness. And condition isnt working as well as burst dps.

D/D ele is popular 0/10/0/30/30 is popular but it is not the only build out there. Can we just all understand that not everyone is bunker. It took 1 gm trait in fresh air to make people give up at least 10 points in arcana lets see what happens. If you change your weapon sets away from D/D I think you are foolish to still run 30 points in arcana this is before 10 december patch. Fresh air is great with S/D I like it with S/F also. I love D/D the best and the standard trait setup but it is not the only build out there. There is a big difference between 15 points and air and 30 points in air.

TLDR: Not everyone is a bunker and not every ele plays 0/10/0/30/30.

Hmm, I still don’t get how 3s regen helps me if I need to get critted for it, let’s say an average crit of 3K dmg…..

STRanger.5120:

Hmm, I still don’t get how 3s regen helps me if I need to get critted for it, let’s say an average crit of 3K dmg…..

I think it’s the kind of trait that needs to be built around in order to be useful. 30 arcana, +20% boon duration and +20% regen duration would make this trait last about… 5 seconds? Coupled with elemental attunement and cleansing water, and we can potencially get perma-regen and traited condition cleansing without relying on cantrips. Add in the minor #5 water trait, SoR healing and cleansing wave, and that’s a lot of passive regen and steady cleansing. This was usually only possible with full cantrip builds before (the old ele bunkers), but you are now free to use other utilities like, say, glyph of elemental power (yes) for the perma weakness, which would make you near immortal versus direct damage classes, arcane shield instead of mist form so you can still act and heal from SoR, and who knows what else.

Another possibility I can see with it, is in an aura build. Because aura builds will want to be hit (for tempest defense, frost aura and shocking aura), assuming a balanced build with good points in toughness, vitality and healing power while still being strong at dealing damage (example: valkyrie amulet with berserker jewel, 10 earth for elemental shielding, 30 water for powerful auras, 30 air for zephyr’s boon and tempest defense, runes of divinity), you’ll want to make sure that being hit by your opponents is as least risky as possible. The new soothing wave does that, by giving you regen to offset the damage you receive, which also happens to scale well with your healing power investment.

DiogoSilva.7089:

STRanger.5120:

Hmm, I still don’t get how 3s regen helps me if I need to get critted for it, let’s say an average crit of 3K dmg…..

..which would make you near immortal versus direct damage classes…
Another possibility I can see with it, is in an aura build. Because aura builds will want to be hit (for tempest defense, frost aura and shocking aura), assuming a balanced build with good points in toughness, vitality and healing power while still being strong at dealing damage (example: valkyrie amulet with berserker jewel, 10 earth for elemental shielding, 30 water for powerful auras, 30 air for zephyr’s boon and tempest defense, runes of divinity), you’ll want to make sure that being hit by your opponents is as least risky as possible. The new soothing wave does that, by giving you regen to offset the damage you receive, which also happens to scale well with your healing power investment.

LOL! Nearly immortal, love it.

The new Soothing Wave is a decent trait, taking the sting out of getting hit, but is slightly shy of immortality. Sadly, they are moving Cleansing Wave out of Adept though; it is actually good.

Xernth.8561:

DiogoSilva.7089:

STRanger.5120:

Hmm, I still don’t get how 3s regen helps me if I need to get critted for it, let’s say an average crit of 3K dmg…..

..which would make you near immortal versus direct damage classes…
Another possibility I can see with it, is in an aura build. Because aura builds will want to be hit (for tempest defense, frost aura and shocking aura), assuming a balanced build with good points in toughness, vitality and healing power while still being strong at dealing damage (example: valkyrie amulet with berserker jewel, 10 earth for elemental shielding, 30 water for powerful auras, 30 air for zephyr’s boon and tempest defense, runes of divinity), you’ll want to make sure that being hit by your opponents is as least risky as possible. The new soothing wave does that, by giving you regen to offset the damage you receive, which also happens to scale well with your healing power investment.

LOL! Nearly immortal, love it.

The new Soothing Wave is a decent trait, taking the sting out of getting hit, but is slightly shy of immortality. Sadly, they are moving Cleansing Wave out of Adept though; it is actually good.

To me, any trait/skill which requires to be hit or worse (critted) is bad design, unless it’s a supertanky class trait/ability.
However I don’t see how 10805hp and light armor can be considered supertanky….

About the near immortal comment, think about it. :P Weakness is a very strong condition now. It can reduce the damage from critical hits to 1/4 of their original value. A 3k critical hit has a 50% chance to only deal around 750 damage while under weakness. A bunker build with the new soothing wave will get 3 (5) seconds of regen out of that, plus the regen from their heal and from their minor water trait. That’s a lot. The ele bunkers of old did not have perma weaknesses.

Of course, it would be a mediocre/ average build versus conditions, and pvp is currently driven by a condition meta, so that’s not very good. But the weakness in our glyph is a “sleeper”. It was buffed in the same patch where the condition meta came out. In the possibility of conditions being further nerfed and/ or a direct damage meta coming back in the future, I can see soothing wave (plus elemental attunement, plus all other passive heals stacked) and perma weaknesses to be a strong combination.

DiogoSilva.7089:

About the near immortal comment, think about it. :P Weakness is a very strong condition now. It can reduce the damage from critical hits to 1/4 of their original value. A 3k critical hit has a 50% chance to only deal around 750 damage while under weakness.

Maybe it’s time for you to read the weakness description again…. 3k crit glancing will be 1500 dmg, not 750….

Also relying on getting hit is still bad decision, you can do that with Warrior, but not with Elementalist…

Also, I’m not a fan of RNG, but 50% glancing chance is stinking of it heavily….

STRanger.5120:

Maybe it’s time for you to read the weakness description again…. 3k crit glancing will be 1500 dmg, not 750….

Glancing hits can’t critical.

DiogoSilva.7089:

STRanger.5120:

Maybe it’s time for you to read the weakness description again…. 3k crit glancing will be 1500 dmg, not 750….

Glancing hits can’t critical.

Heh, you’re right, the description is kinda weird though (Wiki). Not saying anything about the weakness then

But still relying on getting hit with a class like Ele is doesn’t seem like a good idea to me, even by a weakened opponent. Still 50% RNG based, remember

Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.
Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incmoing critical hits. 10s recharge.

So after the thousand of post on how to fix the ele and mostly negative reactions they’ve decided to take almost none of it into consideration.

Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier: Breaks my offensive build with only 15 in water and will force me to put 5 more points in water.

I had found a nice balanced not-bunker build and now they are sending me back to the bunk. That’s all there is for me, with the other classes buff we might as well go total bunker and be there only to cast water fields to be blasted by the zerg while warriors run around with 15k dmg killshots.