Guild Wars 2

With these recent patches conditions have been taking over. Maybe instead of nerfing them buff condition removal a bit. I got 2 skill suggestions that would help Eles remove condis from others, thus adding more team coordination element to the game.

Cleansing Fire got it’s stunbreaker removed. Now it’s not that great. How about make it remove condis from nearby allies as well, not just from self? And if traited to give Vigor, Regeneration or Might add that to allies as well.

Ether Renewal. The ultimate condition muncher. But doesn’t really help allies. What if you channeled it near teammates and it would remove some of their conditions as well? Maybe not with every tick, but still, would make Ele valuable in team fight and put much emphasis on interrupting the channel. Also I noticed it doesn’t have a skill “type”. How about make it an Aura. It could grant the Aura of the Attunement you are in, or some new cool Aura, that removes condis on hit or something. And could be traited to Share it, grant Swiftness, Fury, Protection… all the possibilities.

Eles already have Cleansing Water, Cleansing Wave, Evasive Arcana Water Dodge, and the move Cleansing Wave on Offhand Dagger. Adding more will only add to the utter disparity that exists between Eles and other classes when it comes to condition removal.

The problem is that condition application has become far too rampant. Eles don’t need condi removal as much as the ability of other classes to apply so many conditions needs to be dialed back.

Guardians can remove conditions quite well too I’ve heard :p

Of course there is always the fact that you can gear/food and mostly ignore them too.

Neko.9021:

Eles already have Cleansing Water, Cleansing Wave, Evasive Arcana Water Dodge, and the move Cleansing Wave on Offhand Dagger. Adding more will only add to the utter disparity that exists between Eles and other classes when it comes to condition removal.

The problem is that condition application has become far too rampant. Eles don’t need condi removal as much as the ability of other classes to apply so many conditions needs to be dialed back.

There is also Healing Rain. And then there is Healing Rain + Cleaning Water, which is even more crazy. Elemental Attunement + Cleansing Water removes an addition condition (AoE) just for switching to water. Runes of Dwayna + Cleaning Water will turn every use of the 6-skill into an AoE condition removal.

Ele’s have some of the best AoE condition removal in the game, no need to buff it.

The problem with ele condition removal is that you have to trait 30 in Water and Arcana to get enough of it to make up for eles low HP pool. The fact that ANet expects there to be build variety after nerfing condition removal/stunbreaks (Cleansing Fire) and buffing condition classes is baffling to me. I had to go from a build that I really enjoyed (that used Cleansing Fire as it’s primary condition removal) to the old x/x/x/30/30 simply because I cannot live without at least 2 stunbreaks (+ Lightning Flash) and frequent condition removal. The simple fact of the matter is, if you want to live in WvW with all these new super necros crawling around, you either need a babysitter/zerg or you have to go x/x/x/30/30. There are no other options.

Neko.9021:

The prolem is that condition application has become far too rampant. Eles don’t need condi removal as much as the ability of other classes to apply so many conditions needs to be dialed back.

I agree. I don’t think it’s feasible to buff our condition removal (aside from returning Cleansing Fire to it’s previous state) as it would be too much if you specced for it. Toning down condition application seems to be the only way to maintain any kind of balance anymore.

Despite these problems, I expect ele sustain to receive even more nerfs in the next balance patch. I guess we are supposed to be migrating to high burst/no survivability specs. Honestly, I am not angry with ANet as much as I am just disappointed that the class I love to play is slowly but surely becoming less and less viable.

As a person who plays a Conditimentalist I disapprove of this thread.

You’re talking about Necro, right?

Because other than one Bleed Warrior that schooled me in WvW once, that’s the only other time I’ve ever felt remotely threatened by condition damage.

Now, Necros are pretty scary with their Terror builds right now. I can lose half my health before I can even do anything about it, since Fear Juggling really reduces the impact of stun breakers while killing you.

I don’t see the point of finally making Necro a relevant pressure class, only to indirectly nerf them by giving everyone else better cleansing.

Neko.9021:

Eles already have Cleansing Water, Cleansing Wave, Evasive Arcana Water Dodge, and the move Cleansing Wave on Offhand Dagger. Adding more will only add to the utter disparity that exists between Eles and other classes when it comes to condition removal.

The problem is that condition application has become far too rampant. Eles don’t need condi removal as much as the ability of other classes to apply so many conditions needs to be dialed back.

Problem is those are ALL apart of the 1 real viable survival build, 30 water and 30 arcana. I doubt more ways to remove condi’s will make that build op, thats already its main focus. Unless more changes similar to the op’s idea are addressed, the competetive ele build diversity is crap, more of the same nerfed d/d.

Remove the 5 sec cd from Condition removal when granting regen trait for pvp

cheshirefox.7026:

when elems can apply 5 conditions in .2 seconds like other classes.. then you can disapprove of this thread ^^

First of all, what?

Second of all, wouldn’t the ability to remove conditions more rapidly hurt the classes that can’t apply conditions as fast as others more than those who could rapidly apply them?

cheshirefox.7026:

Kodiak.3281:

As a person who plays a Conditimentalist I disapprove of this thread.

when elems can apply 5 conditions in .2 seconds like other classes.. then you can disapprove of this thread ^^

They can.

Most of them aren’t damaging conditions, so people don’t notice them and often don’t bother cleansing them.

I play only WvW.

All my characters have Melandru + Lemongrass soup = -65% condition duration. Now add in condition removals. I see no problems so agree with Kodiak "I disapprove of this thread’.

Jarek.2430:

I play only WvW.

All my characters have Melandru + Lemongrass soup = -65% condition duration. Now add in condition removals. I see no problems so agree with Kodiak "I disapprove of this thread’.

As a Conditimentalist this is why I stack 90% condition duration.

:)

They removed the stunbreak on Cleansing fire and Lightning Flash because I assume they wanted it both to be used in a offensive way. If anything they should make it give fury and might to the ele and surrounding allies.

Dalo.3941:

They removed the stunbreak on Cleansing fire and Lightning Flash because I assume they wanted it both to be used in a offensive way. If anything they should make it give fury and might to the ele and surrounding allies.

Cleansing Fire should either give Retaliation or give a 100% Flame Barrier, regardless of attunement, for a few seconds.

Lightning Flash got a decent damage increase and is actually functional in some burst builds.

Cleansing fire giving retaliation would be awesome. We seriously lack a source of retaliation.

I would be happy if cleaning fire were a blast finisher.

A condition dealer should be as dangerous to face as a toon that is focused on power and precision.
- Both paths should be equally viable.

I think recent changes have helped to move the dial more towards condition. I’m not yet convinced it has moved too far. But if it does – for a short while that might be a good thing as a way to convince people to experiment.

Even as of two nights ago, I had a guildie claiming ‘condition damage is useless in GW2’ – so if the dial has shifted to favor condition, not everyone has gotten the memo yet.

He was on an engineer too, as was I at the time, and I just sat there gaping while looking over my action bar at a virtual army of potential conditions… On any day where the daily is ‘apply 3274 conditions’, my engineer hits it on her first PvE pull of the day…

So if I’m dealing with a fellow engineer who thinks using conditions is useless – perception might still be out of whack with reality.

In every other discussion on this kind of topic, I’m usually arguing for Condition builds and being called a troll, noob, or worse for thinking conditions can hurt even fleas…

I certainly hope you folks are on to something and conditions are more potent now. I found them potent before but it took me highly specialized builds to do it.

The main reason people seem to think conditions are weak is the condition cap which will negate a lot of the damages in larger boss fights and some dungeons.

Jarek.2430:

I play only WvW.

All my characters have Melandru + Lemongrass soup = -65% condition duration. Now add in condition removals. I see no problems so agree with Kodiak "I disapprove of this thread’.

I only suggested to buff Elementalist condition removal from allies (not self). Sure, an Elementalist doesn’t see a problem in WvW, specced to deal with conditions. But that’s not where I’m coming from.

I’m coming from playing sPvP, against comps that include 2 Necros and an Engineer. Maybe a Ranger. Even Mesmers apply condis like it ain’t no thing. In team fights this is very condition heavy. And yes, I can pop Healing Rain to remove 2 conditions from everyone over 6 seconds, dodge in water to remove a third one and even save myself with Cleansing Fire, but that is useless if the rest of my team still goes down. I’d like to help out a little more, but frankly when such a condition heavy team fight happens I may as well just start walking to the next point and leave my team to get stomped.

I’m not saying that other professions don’t have the tools to deal with conditions. I’m saying many simply don’t take these options in order to be more competent at other areas. And is it such a bad thing if a teammate could compensate for that then? Or is it supposed to be every man for himself?

theonewhoknocks.8641:

Jarek.2430:

I play only WvW.

All my characters have Melandru + Lemongrass soup = -65% condition duration. Now add in condition removals. I see no problems so agree with Kodiak "I disapprove of this thread’.

I only suggested to buff Elementalist condition removal from allies (not self). Sure, an Elementalist doesn’t see a problem in WvW, specced to deal with conditions. But that’s not where I’m coming from.

I’m coming from playing sPvP, against comps that include 2 Necros and an Engineer. Maybe a Ranger. Even Mesmers apply condis like it ain’t no thing. In team fights this is very condition heavy. And yes, I can pop Healing Rain to remove 2 conditions from everyone over 6 seconds, dodge in water to remove a third one and even save myself with Cleansing Fire, but that is useless if the rest of my team still goes down. I’d like to help out a little more, but frankly when such a condition heavy team fight happens I may as well just start walking to the next point and leave my team to get stomped.

I’m not saying that other professions don’t have the tools to deal with conditions. I’m saying many simply don’t take these options in order to be more competent at other areas. And is it such a bad thing if a teammate could compensate for that then? Or is it supposed to be every man for himself?

Do what most people do. Make a Necro/Engi/Mesmer.

Because ANet doesn’t do whack-a-mole balancing…

Make the cleansing water internal cd be per target rather than global, and it’s good.

Does the cleansing water affect PvE / WvW? kitten making us ele bad in pvp lol, didn’t even know this had an internal cd till the other day. Oh well, makes my friend build strong, now he can drop Dwayna Runes.

Mek.2947:

I would be happy if cleaning fire were a blast finisher.

That would be so awesome!

PinCushion.7390:

Dalo.3941:

They removed the stunbreak on Cleansing fire and Lightning Flash because I assume they wanted it both to be used in a offensive way. If anything they should make it give fury and might to the ele and surrounding allies.

Cleansing Fire should either give Retaliation or give a 100% Flame Barrier, regardless of attunement, for a few seconds.

Lightning Flash got a decent damage increase and is actually functional in some burst builds.

Retaliation would be a bad idea. Eles are not designed to face-tank everything. Retaliation only works if you have enough defensive stats like Armor and HP(something Eles obviously lack).

Indeed Lightning Flash is not that bad as everyone makes it seem to be. I still use it allot. I would though, like it to have a blind on hit or/and its range increased to 1200.

TGSlasher.1458:

Does the cleansing water affect PvE / WvW? kitten making us ele bad in pvp lol, didn’t even know this had an internal cd till the other day. Oh well, makes my friend build strong, now he can drop Dwayna Runes.

The cooldown is only there in pvp as far as I know. It really hurts support builds though, especially staff.