So, as many of you might have noticed ANet have buffed conjures quite nicely so that we now have more options than just LH-spam and Frost Bow 4. Maybe this means ANet is willing to consider tweaking the way conjures work to make them more widely useful outside of PvE?
The goal I was trying to reach when thinking about a change was to think of a functionality that would allow Ele conjures to still be shared in some fashion but allow us more flexible and on demand use of them similar to engi kits. The idea I’ve come up with is to do these things:
1. Remove cool down from casting conjures and the charges from conjures you have equipped. Necessary if we want them to be more flexible and ‘on demand’.
2. Change summoning a conjure to just one at a time. Get rid of the whole ground targeting non-sense and instead make summoning a conjure place it directly into our hands like an engi kit. To get out of the conjure set we simply use our unutilized “`” key.
3. To share a conjure, once you have a conjure in your hands equipped you can hit the conjure utility again to drop the conjure currently equipped to the ground for someone to pick up while putting a new one in your hands. Once you have two conjures out (including in your hands, on the ground for pick up, or in use by an ally), the skill is greyed out in your utility bar until you drop yours or they run out of charges. Also since hitting “`” in this system would just get rid of the conjure it is impossible to lock yourself out of your conjures or share more than one at anytime.
4. Get rid of the conjurer trait as it is no longer needed. Have the conjures you drop for allies only have 15 charges and that’s it. Since whatever conjure in your hands is not going to have charges and since an ally would have to run back to where you are to pick up a new conjure I think that balances it well enough.
That about sums up my idea, I might be missing something as this is the result of idle brain storming but I think I’ve covered the basics.
I haven’t seen an idea like this before, then again I took a long break from the game and might have missed this brought up a long time ago. Regardless, I think a system like this would give us the flexibility of engi kits but keep our ability to share making conjures a viable option in all aspects of the game.
(edited by Lostwingman.5034)
So…that bad of an idea?
Hey, I just made a similar thread to yours (with mostly exact the same ideas) in the sPvP-section, since DEVs seem to be most active in that sub-forum and propably nobody will ever read it here. I’ll add your ideas if they aren’t already on my list.
-> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Feedback-Ele-Conjures/first#post3042737
(edited by Gorni.1764)
Okay guys, you gotta realize that kind of stuff will NEVER EVER happen.
They’re meant to be niche and relatively unreliable also probably the only line of utilities that is not entirely selfish.
They WON’T become like kits, they WON’T get rid of the limitations (time, charges).
Every 6 hours or so a thread about this pops up and its all the same, try to work with them the way they are now or don’t bother at all if they are that restricting to you.
BlackBeard has made a nice thread about it iirc as has Fortus, trying to fit them in their respective builds.
Okay guys, you gotta realize that kind of stuff will NEVER EVER happen.
They’re meant to be niche and relatively unreliable also probably the only line of utilities that is not entirely selfish.They WON’T become like kits, they WON’T get rid of the limitations (time, charges).
Every 6 hours or so a thread about this pops up and its all the same, try to work with them the way they are now or don’t bother at all if they are that restricting to you.
BlackBeard has made a nice thread about it iirc as has Fortus, trying to fit them in their respective builds.
Your response really isn’t that helpful. The OP has constructive feedback which is precisely what we’re supposed to discuss. If you think there are too many conjure threads and that they all say the same thing, why not ignore them? The OP was clearly titled as a conjure thread.
That being said, I think we should continue to push this idea. Here’s why:
Anet: “We want you guys to use conjures! Here we changed them so now they’re like way cool and useable lol”
Us: "We don’t like using them because 1) we can’t swap in an out of them despite our class “mechanic” relying heavily on attunement swapping; 2) there’s both a time and charge limitation—lose one, either one. Those are the major problems with conjures, neither of which have ever been addressed."
Anet: “But we, like, want these to be a super cool ‘niche’ weapon!”
Us: “It’s not a ‘niche’ if no one uses them. Then it’s just ‘unused’”
Okay guys, you gotta realize that kind of stuff will NEVER EVER happen.
They’re meant to be niche and relatively unreliable also probably the only line of utilities that is not entirely selfish.They WON’T become like kits, they WON’T get rid of the limitations (time, charges).
Every 6 hours or so a thread about this pops up and its all the same, try to work with them the way they are now or don’t bother at all if they are that restricting to you.
BlackBeard has made a nice thread about it iirc as has Fortus, trying to fit them in their respective builds.
Your response really isn’t that helpful. The OP has constructive feedback which is precisely what we’re supposed to discuss. If you think there are too many conjure threads and that they all say the same thing, why not ignore them? The OP was clearly titled as a conjure thread.
That being said, I think we should continue to push this idea. Here’s why:
Anet: “We want you guys to use conjures! Here we changed them so now they’re like way cool and useable lol”
Us: "We don’t like using them because 1) we can’t swap in an out of them despite our class “mechanic” relying heavily on attunement swapping; 2) there’s both a time and charge limitation—lose one, either one. Those are the major problems with conjures, neither of which have ever been addressed."
Anet: “But we, like, want these to be a super cool ‘niche’ weapon!”
Us: “It’s not a ‘niche’ if no one uses them. Then it’s just ‘unused’”
The only helpful thing i can think of at this point (because we have seen those suggestions over and over again) is to make stickies with discussion on each aspect, such as glyphs, conjures, signets, cantrips, traitlines, weapon skills.
Point being, its all forum clutter and after some point it feels a bit trashy seeing the same subject being talked over on the front page in 5+ different threads.
On the conjures subject, I assume you’re talking about pvp and wvw, since many builds revolve around LH and it’s certain we’ll see more about the rest (at least at pve) with lava axe being a mightstacker, icebow having an actual strong use with #2, earthshield being completely reworked.
P.s. Beautification such as that might as well make the whole subforum actually pleasant to surf through and even catch anet’s eye.
Hey, I just made a similar thread to yours (with mostly exact the same ideas) in the sPvP-section, since DEVs seem to be most active in that sub-forum and propably nobody will ever read it here. I’ll add your ideas if they aren’t already on my list.
-> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Feedback-Ele-Conjures/first#post3042737
Thanks, I kinda figured other people would come up with a similar idea since it just seems so common sense as a way to improve “quality of life” for using conjures.
Okay guys, you gotta realize that kind of stuff will NEVER EVER happen.
They’re meant to be niche and relatively unreliable also probably the only line of utilities that is not entirely selfish.
Is that why they’re so powerful and have only seen buffs?
Also it seems like you didn’t even read my OP, as I EXPLICITLY INCLUDE a new methodology for sharing conjures that functions THE SAME AS CURRENTLY.
They WON’T become like kits, they WON’T get rid of the limitations (time, charges).
Why not?
Also I didn’t either, at least for the sharing aspect. However the devs obviously intend conjures to be a major feature of elementalist variety otherwise why would they keep buffing them? This kind of change is exactly the kind of change that would make them go from a gimmick for PvE Dungeon clearing and leveling to a useful feature set for all modes.
Every 6 hours or so a thread about this pops up
No it doesn’t.
and its all the same
Bullkitten. All those threads are are kitten threads about how conjures should be like engi kits without any kind of serious thought. You obviously didn’t read my OP.
try to work with them the way they are now or don’t bother at all if they are that restricting to you.
I’m sorry constructive feedback and discussion is looked down up by small minded forum goers with nothing better to do than to barge into threads and pull assumptions right out of their kitten and in fact be less than constructive.
BlackBeard has made a nice thread about it iirc
Where?
Where is there a thread about functional QoL changes to the conjure sets that aren’t just “HURF DURF MAKE DEM KITS”? I bet you’re referencing to a conjure build, which this thread is specifically not about.
as has Fortus
Who and where?
You must be talking about new build threads, I haven’ t had enough time since patch to familiarize myself with who made what build off-hand.
trying to fit them in their respective builds.
This thread isn’t about builds. It’s about constructive discussion on making conjures less clunky and gimmicky.
Since you don’t want to read, don’t want to contribute, and only want to cry and moan like the worst of the ele subforum just leave. That kind of claptrap is not desired in intelligent discussion.
The only helpful thing i can think of at this point (because we have seen those suggestions over and over again) is to make stickies with discussion on each aspect, such as glyphs, conjures, signets, cantrips, traitlines, weapon skills.
Why don’t you go make a suggestion thread about that instead of trying to derail any discussion or thought. Also by your own admission there is not a dedicated thread for discussion on changing conjure mechanics, just builds, and since I haven’t seen an idea like this here I decided to make a new thread. Exactly what was I supposed to do? Post this in a build thread? How the kitten would that make sense?
Point being, its all forum clutter and after some point it feels a bit trashy seeing the same subject being talked over on the front page in 5+ different threads.
Didn’t read the OP, please leave.
Good, now this is going somewhere, since there is a specification about limits.
Are you implying they can stay in the conjurer’s hands indefinitely?
Also what about cooldown?
What if I drop the conjure or run out of charges and some ally has still got his/her own up? Will in that case the skill get greyed out again when it’s reused?
What happens with multiple conjures, can I share 3-4 different ones that way?
Fgs?
It would be useless to think about such details – that’s Anet’s job. All we’re trying here is gather some ideas that Anet can consider to implement. Since their two attempts to make conjures viable in PvP failed I think it might be a good idea to give them some hints.
Are you implying they can stay in the conjurer’s hands indefinitely?
That was just the initial idea I brainstormed. I want you to keep in mind this thread was created to bounce ideas and brainstorm. I’m not sure how we would or should limit conjures. I would say indefinitely (or for a much longer use period) if the utility has a cooldown and maybe if it has a much reduced cooldown let it use charges.
Also what about cooldown?
I don’t think that a cooldown is necessary and hurts our survivability and utility a lot. People don’t use conjures a whole lot because we lose access to a lot of our support or survival skills that are locked in various attunements, on top of that we are losing out additionally on survivability because we have to use up a utility slot. The conjure weapons are fairly powerful but they aren’t really very flexible either, only the LH offers any survivability (at least in PvE) from its blinds.
What if I drop the conjure or run out of charges and some ally has still got his/her own up?
Reread the OP (don’t make that a theme). In my brainstorm proposal you only “drop” a conjure for someone else to pick up if you already have one in your hands equipped. If you unequip the conjure with “`” it simply dissolves out. Thus if one of your conjures is already out, and you unequip the one you are holding you can only reequip yourself with a conjure. If there is a conjure out for pick up or equipped and you already have a conjure equipped then the conjure skills on your utility bar are locked until one or both dissolve.
Will in that case the skill get greyed out again when it’s reused?
Explained in the OP and above.
What happens with multiple conjures, can I share 3-4 different ones that way?
Sigh you really didn’t read my OP did you?
Fgs?
It’s an elite and will have to be worked differently from the normal conjures which would depend on how those normal conjures work.
Currently we are locked out by cooldown.
If we were to implement the system I threw together in the OP I would say mechanically FGS would work the same as those utilities. I would however give the skill itself charges, two at a time, where everytime you call to yourself an FGS a charge disappears. When you run out of charges, the FGS goes on cooldown.
An example:
You are in a party, no conjures equipped, and FGS is off cooldown with 2 charges on it.
You use FGS once to summon the FGS to your hands and use up a charge, leaving you one. Then you use it again to set the FGS in your hands on the ground for pickup and the second into your hands. This uses the last charge and sets it on cooldown. To prevent infinite spamming of FGS by the ele summoning it I would give the FGS a duration timer.
A sound idea, but I still feel that would make them similar to kits unfortunately.
My only argument with the ground targeting is make it useful for some reason. Have the actual AoE placement of the conjure do something beyond just placing a weapon on the ground.
My suggestion was add fields to the placement of conjures.
FGS and LA drops a Fire Field around the conjured weapon.
FB drops a Water Field
LH drops a static field
ES drops a Dark Field (I think that is the same type as Murky Water, earth #5 trident)
Again I don’t necessarily mind the AoE targetting to conjure a weapon, just wish it actually had a purpose.
A sound idea, but I still feel that would make them similar to kits unfortunately.
What’s wrong with that?
That’s an example of a utility equipping system that is flexible and actually works.
My only argument with the ground targeting is make it useful for some reason. Have the actual AoE placement of the conjure do something beyond just placing a weapon on the ground.
The whole point of ground placing it is sharing it or setting it up to get picked up later. You start making it do other stuff and you’re not using them for the conjure but for the field. That misses the point of the conjure, which is to situationally bring out a specialized weapon skill set.
My suggestion was add fields to the placement of conjures.
Then the skill begins to become muddled with what its actual use is and we are having to make compromises between placing to utilize the field (which in the current system is on a cripplingly long cooldown) and placing the conjure for pickup.
FGS and LA drops a Fire Field around the conjured weapon.
FB drops a Water Field
LH drops a static field
ES drops a Dark Field (I think that is the same type as Murky Water, earth #5 trident)
FB wouldn’t drop a Water Field, it would drop an Ice one.
Again I don’t necessarily mind the AoE targetting to conjure a weapon, just wish it actually had a purpose.
The purpose of that casting method is to share it. However that makes it clunky to use and bring out at a moments notice. Elementalist is all about calling up skills at a moments notice when its needed though. In its current form it is either used for gimmick (FB #4 for gravelings or fast clearing), bridging long cooldowns (FA in a burst S/D build), or dedicated PvE DPS (LH builds). It has very little actual synergy with what Elementalist currently has to work with.
I don’t know why you are trying to rationalize keeping that system of sharing conjures in when by your own admittance it’s not a very good system and by what I said above doesn’t have much room to be fixed in its current implementation.
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