Guild Wars 2

I’m with you. I’ve suggested the same idea (just with less details) on the Elementalist Live Stream thread a few days ago.

Great minds think alike, it would seem.

Bump once for good measure. Does anyone else have any interest in this?

Blaine Tog.8304:

Bump once for good measure. Does anyone else have any interest in this?

Totally agree and if they say that regaining charges after swapping back is too much then I still would like to have a second weapon just for 15 charges until the conjure spell is back off the cooldown.

TLDR : Conjure weapons should add 5 skills not turn our 20 into 5..

I am linking your thread into my suggestions thread:-

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Suggestions-for-improving-fixing-eles/first#post2353690

Thanks!

In thinking about this more, it occurs to me that the Fiery Greatsword might be a problem for this system. Unlike the utility-slot Conjures, the Fiery Greatsword is overpowered enough to justify its cooldown, specifically because it has two no-target, low-cooldown mobility spells. The Ele could become almost totally uncatchable every 9 seconds.

Hmm. The easiest solution would be to simply not allow the Fiery Greatsword into this system, but that seems like kiiiinda a cop-out. What could work would be to make a split between the cooldowns of the initial cast + dropped Greatsword and the version you come back to when you weapon-swap. Maybe if they were both 40-second cooldowns, it would be ok? Lightning Hammer might need a similar change, though it only has one 600-unit leap so maybe not.

They should just make Conjured Weapons work similar Engineer kits. Little to no cooldown on activating the skill. (Engie has no real cooldown on kits. In order to keep CW in line with attunement swapping, maybe up to an 8 second CD would be appropriate, starting when you de-activate the CW). An internal cooldown on how often the skill can drop a copy of the weapon on the ground equal to the current skill CD. When the CW is active, clicking the CW utility skill again de-activates it. Consider the ability to drop a copy of the weapon for others as compensation for not having the equivalent of Engineer toolbelt skills. (If no one else picks it up, the drop gives you the occasional ability to switch out of the CW, use other weapon skills, then quickly jump back into the CW). Done.

If this was done, it might actually make us the “Jack of All Trades” they pretend we are and the lowest HP/ Lowest Armor/ Medicore Damage handicaps the profession has might begin to be justified.

Kits are central to the Engineer’s design whereas Conjure Weapons are secondary to Attunement Swapping. I feel like we’d be stepping on the Engineers toes too much if we made Conjure Weapons too similar. Having Attunements is already part of the compensation for not having Toolbelt skills, after all.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kits are central to the Engineer’s design whereas Conjure Weapons are secondary to Attunement Swapping. I feel like we’d be stepping on the Engineers toes too much if we made Conjure Weapons too similar. Having Attunements is already part of the compensation for not having Toolbelt skills, after all.

How about having conjured weapon replace an attunement swap? Like if you switch over to air attunement you gain the lightning hammer and those 5 abilities as opposed to your regular 5 weapon skills

I’m still a big fan of a conjure just replacing its respective element, allowing you to still use 3 attunements at will. The OP’s post seems good as well though. Heck, I don’t really care how they do it, but the devs really need to make conjures more smooth.

That means less clunky to use, not just adding moar stats.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kits are central to the Engineer’s design whereas Conjure Weapons are secondary to Attunement Swapping. I feel like we’d be stepping on the Engineers toes too much if we made Conjure Weapons too similar. Having Attunements is already part of the compensation for not having Toolbelt skills, after all.

Actually, the signature profession mechanic of the Engineer is only the toolbelt. Kits are simply a (currently) unique type of skill they have access to, like glyphs for eles, or mantras for mesmers. After thinking about it, I really like the kit like idea OP mentioned, with a few tweaks to fit the ele more.

I know the Engi has Toolbelt skills as their profession mechanic but that wasn’t what I meant. Having some control over their F1-F4 is cool and all but every other profession has neat-o things they can do with their F1-F4 as well. Kits are the reason Engis lack weapon swaps. If they had kits AND attunements, it would be too much.

Someone stated earlier that the charges and time limit should be dropped and, instead, conjured weapons should be an ele’s weaponswap. While the would have to be limited to one weapon conjure utility, this would be a lot less clunky than how it’s done already.

I really like the idea but it will need some adjustments to trait lines to make such a change more meaningful and rewarding to work with. Sadly, I have lost faith in any form of balance or development for our class from Anet and don’t expect them to look seriously upon suggestions made by players when they haven’t a clue about how their game works.

I think this is the best idea I’ve heard to make conjures… less terrible.

Keep the skill cooldown to limit conjure swapping in and out quickly
Using the skill gives the ele a weapon swap to the conjured weapon with no charges
The skill summons a weapon for another person to use with 15 charges
There’s no cooldown to leave the conjure
There’s a 10 second cooldown to go back
Using another conjure skill destroys the current conjure

It would be fine with FGS. Leaving it for 10 seconds is a loss of mobility, even for a D/D ele.

I probably still wouldn’t take a conjured weapon utility in any of my builds, but at least it’s a step toward respectability.

I was thinking something along those lines as well, although my idea works with attunements, instead of weapon swap. Sorry for the hijack.

First of all, IMO, conjure weapon skills need to be reworked.

The only situationally useful utilities are hammer and greatsword, and that is only in very specific builds, or for using one or two skills before dropping them. Their skills need to be looked at and improved and/or reworked to make them worth keeping for longer than 10 seconds.

First, drop the charges, OR, get rid of the time limit. Having both is too restricting and makes using conjures too much a hassle. Oh, and make their conjuring instant.

Second, they shouldn’t lock all of your attunements. Conjure weapon should occupy only its own attunement. For example, when you conjure a Fiery Greatsword, you gain its skills only in fire attunement. Other attunements remain untouched and you can freely switch between them. Also, you can always press ; to drop it and return to your real weapon skills.

Third, Conjures need traits that are actually worth using. Perhaps a trait that grants specific boon for 10 seconds when you summon a conjure. Gaining 10 second protection would make people actually use Earth Shield. That is, after you make its skills not suck.
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tl;dr: Rework useless skills, make Conjures tied to specific attunement (like FGS – fire attunement) so we can still switch to other attunements (still can use ; to drop the wapon) and give us ineresting traits to spec into, like 10 sec of protection when conjuring an Earth Shield.
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That would solve some of the issues Conjures suffer. It would give eles sort of “pseudo” weapon swap that would give them more range flexibility, like range from Frost Bow to melee centric DD ele or Lightning hammer for ranged SD ele. It would make them similar- yet different from Engineers weapon kits in the sense of on-demand mechanic, instead of using one or two skills before ditching them completely.

Red Jay.2516:

I was thinking something along those lines as well, although my idea works with attunements, instead of weapon swap. Sorry for the hijack.

First of all, IMO, conjure weapon skills need to be reworked.

The only situationally useful utilities are hammer and greatsword, and that is only in very specific builds, or for using one or two skills before dropping them. Their skills need to be looked at and improved and/or reworked to make them worth keeping for longer than 10 seconds.

First, drop the charges, OR, get rid of the time limit. Having both is too restricting and makes using conjures too much a hassle. Oh, and make their conjuring instant.

Second, they shouldn’t lock all of your attunements. Conjure weapon should occupy only its own attunement. For example, when you conjure a Fiery Greatsword, you gain its skills only in fire attunement. Other attunements remain untouched and you can freely switch between them. Also, you can always press ; to drop it and return to your real weapon skills.

Third, Conjures need traits that are actually worth using. Perhaps a trait that grants specific boon for 10 seconds when you summon a conjure. Gaining 10 second protection would make people actually use Earth Shield. That is, after you make its skills not suck.
__________________________________________________________________
tl;dr: Rework useless skills, make Conjures tied to specific attunement (like FGS – fire attunement) so we can still switch to other attunements (still can use ; to drop the wapon) and give us ineresting traits to spec into, like 10 sec of protection when conjuring an Earth Shield.
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That would solve some of the issues Conjures suffer. It would give eles sort of “pseudo” weapon swap that would give them more range flexibility, like range from Frost Bow to melee centric DD ele or Lightning hammer for ranged SD ele. It would make them similar- yet different from Engineers weapon kits in the sense of on-demand mechanic, instead of using one or two skills before ditching them completely.

Actually, Ice Bow is a godsend for D/D builds when you’re fighting something that demands you stay at a distance. Also, the 5 is a ridiculously strong stun – I’d equip that one skill as a utility on its own if I could.

I’ll have to say, medium and large sized elemental weapons look rather bad kitten on my Norn Elementalist. So yes, please make some major redesign on Conjured weapons.

Red Jay.2516:

tl;dr: Rework useless skills, make Conjures tied to specific attunement (like FGS – fire attunement) so we can still switch to other attunements (still can use ; to drop the wapon) and give us ineresting traits to spec into, like 10 sec of protection when conjuring an Earth Shield.

This. I mentioned the tie conjures to attunement on most other conjure related threads. Basically, when summoning a Frost bow it would replace water attunement. You would still be able to drop weapon as you currently do to ditch the weapon and get water back. More traits for conjures wanted. And removing charges but keeping time limit as well.

If they must keep charges then we need an attumenet specific trait for charges. E.G. Fire, gain 10 additional charges for conjure weapons, FGS can be summoned on the move, FGS and Fire Axe deal area burning at summoned location. Air Gain 10 charges for conjure weapons, Lightning Hammer area stuns at summon location … etc etc. The charges do not stack across traits.

I really like a lot of these ideas, and many provide, imo, a viable use of them.

One thing I thought of was if the weapon replaced it’s respective attunement (big fan of this btw) then you could just condense the skills into one. Call it like “Elemental Conjuration” or something, and its effect is “Summons an elemental weapon based on attunement: Air-Lightning Hammer, Fire-Firey Ax, Water-Frost Bow, Earth-Earth Shield Lasts 60s”

What do you all think about this idea? I can see how the argument could work to keep the skills individual, but I think grouping it like this that it would make them much more worth it having another 20 skills within one button push but can only have 5 new skills at a time. Cheers~

Honestly it would be too much if you could access them as often as other classes weaponswap and way out of balance if they worked like kits.
Just imagine if they made every conjure just instant..No other change!
All the combos you could do.Ele would become a cc monster chaining the hammer skills into fire burst combos spawning earth shields to tank burst and aoe pull rezzers and stompers,quick interrupt on heals or set up bursts for teammates..Then you would have combos like earth 3 in daggers into a frostbow 5 -3 then into a churning earth and fire burst all while enemy is frozen..Deep freeze is bad cause it doesnt hit but if you can chain it with your normal cc like an immob it would be deadly as it would force an invuln,block at the very least.Also it doesnt appear to be stunbreakable but thye might have fixed that!
I would be extrmely happy if they just made them instant and if you want a second use out of them you should pick up the 1 conjure on the ground..
Btw did you know that if you would have constant access to lightning hammer as a second weaponswap you would end up roaming faster than pre rtl nerf cause oof the number 2 ability?? :P

A lot of these suggestions would pretty much make them like temporary kits. And frankly, I think engineers get screwed often enough as is… Others would just overwrite existing skills with skills which fulfill the same aesthetic and have the same drawbacks, opening up no new builds.

I would prefer an overwrite system, this would be unique to the ele and work with our class mechanic. A lot simpler and easier to pick up too.

• Whatever attunement you cast the conjured weapon in is overwritten by the conjured weapon for its duration. Additionally conjured weapons count as weapon skills so far as sigils/runes/traits are concerned. So using Frost Bow while in fire attunement would replace the fire attunement with the frostbow, giving you two water attunements.

The amount of monocentric and duocentric builds this would open up would help our class so much, and possibly set a precedent for opening up other classes to similar mechanical changes.

I would simply change that when you summon one yourself, it is treated like a weapon swap (can only hold 1 extra). This means that for the duration I can swap to hammer, am stuck there for 10s. Use hammer skills. After 10s, I can swap back to daggers and put the hammer on CD for 10s. You could even make it 15s. The basic idea is to counter-act the issue that conjures lock us out of all weapons unless we completely abandon it.

Conjures are terrible. The whole concept is bad – locking out 20 skills for 5 otherwise unremarkable skills, would that ever be a good idea? Only if those 5 skills were clearly better than the 20 they’re replacing and even then, it still costs a utility slot.

So I was thinking of this idea the other day. Yes, the conjure weapons lock us out of 20 of our skills for only 5 skills that we probably would only use the 3, 4, and 5 on and want to get rid of it. So what if we did this?:

1. Instant cast like engineer kits
2. Weapon drops at your feet when cast instead of ground targeting.
3. Same cooldowns still

That way it’s not so much of a wasted effort with all the casting time and targeting, and also there’s a surprise element. Weapons like the earth shield would actually be worth taking without having to rework the entire weapons.

Thoughts?