Guild Wars 2

Hello, brothers elementalists and all sympathizers. I have an idea how to improve conjured weapons. I’m not sure if someone has suggested something similar before (most people suggest kit mechanics) but anyways.

What if conjured weapons were bound to appropriate attunements? For example – you summon flame axe and your fire attunement skills are changed to axe skills. So you can swap and use other elements whilst axe skills cd. I think it would make conjured weapons much more efficient.

It could also have a limitation of one weapon active at a time.
Also I guess Anet could separate mechanics leaving weapons in previous state for other professions, so ground conjury would be still in game.

And what’s your opinion?

That would be OP, I would run with Ice Bow all the time and just spam with storms (as I do now, conjure FB, 3, 4, throw). Well, I like it, but I think that better solution would be to just lower the cooldown or add some traits that lowers their cooldown. Implementing your idea would require nerfing them hard (well, I would still like it as long as it would be viable).

I was also thinking about making these weapons also affected by attunements, for example:
Ice bow on Water attunement have different skills than Ice Bow on Fire Attunement. You can also swap attunements when the weapon is summoned, to use different skill, but again, that would be so much skills we can use, probably even too much.

Kit mechanics on the other hand would be really nice to be able to make builds around these weapons, but that would make them less supportive. Summoning Ice Bow for a friend can be really nice in some situations. I don’t like Conjures to be selfish.

yayuuu.9420:

I think that better solution would be to just lower the cooldown or add some traits that lowers their cooldown. Implementing your idea would require nerfing them hard (well, I would still like it as long as it would be viable).

I guess lowering cooldown won’t fix main problem of conjuries – flexibility. When you summon a weapon you can’t do a thing. As Russians say: “step left-step right – shooting down” that means – you have no freedom. And that’s atrocious, as ele’s feature is being of all trades.
I’m sure that weapons will need some nerf but that’s decent price as for me.

Being able to pick it up again after you drop it would make the weapons a lot more viable imho. Of course, Anet would either have to keep track of charges (which may have technical issues) or they would have make the weapons have some sort of duration that is linked to the weapon rather than the person wielding it.

Conjures seem fairly complex to code, maybe the current situation was the best solution.

This has been suggested what I estimate a little over one kajillion (is that even a word?) times but if they worked like engy kits I would see no good reason to ever drop the FGS except for might stacking/healing purposes

sorrychief.2563:

This has been suggested what I estimate a little over one kajillion (is that even a word?) times but if they worked like engy kits I would see no good reason to ever drop the FGS except for might stacking/healing purposes

That’s why I’m against kit-like mechanics.

Katran.9186:

sorrychief.2563:

This has been suggested what I estimate a little over one kajillion (is that even a word?) times but if they worked like engy kits I would see no good reason to ever drop the FGS except for might stacking/healing purposes

That’s why I’m against kit-like mechanics.

Agreed. Maybe a fixed duration, no charges but a ‘drop on the ground and weapon appears for any ally to pick up with remaining duration’ could be a potential alternative.

Of course, to balance it should probably limited to 1 weapon per cast instead of 2.

It would be kind of like how banners work now, except the usefulness isn’t in the buff (because there’s none) but rather the alternative skill bar.

ThiBash.5634:

Katran.9186:

sorrychief.2563:

This has been suggested what I estimate a little over one kajillion (is that even a word?) times but if they worked like engy kits I would see no good reason to ever drop the FGS except for might stacking/healing purposes

That’s why I’m against kit-like mechanics.

And that’s why maybe a fixed duration, no charges but a ‘drop on the ground and weapon appears for any ally to pick up with remaining duration’ could be a potential alternative.

Of course, to balance it should probably limited to 1 weapon.

And I don’t see drop-take mechanics viable either. One second of taking up earth shield for invulnerability (remember, thin ele) is enough to get into down state. Whilst having it as replacement of all earth skills for some time is much more comfortable and safer.
Ofcourse talking about PvP.

Ýou have a point there. You could plan ahead a bit more of course, or the pickup should be instant-like. It would make the conjures something different than kits and give the ele a slightly more unique role.

ThiBash.5634:

Ýou have a point there. You could plan ahead a bit more of course, or the pickup should be instant-like. It would make the conjures something different than kits and give the ele a slightly more unique role.

That’s discussion thread, I guess if we succeed in creating worthy concept – we can suggest it, eh, somewhere. If I’m not mistaken there was suggestion thread somewhere.

True. Keep the ideas coming though, yours are actually viable (compared to some I’ve read in the past).

ThiBash.5634:

True. Keep the ideas coming though, yours are actually viable (compared to some I’ve read in the past).

Eh, I just need to think of something that irritates me most. I was trying to create some nice conjury build and “swap=drop” system set my kitten on fire.
Well, it set long ago but I wasn’t so angry before. God kitten , Anet, at least try. Engi turrets, ele conjuries – possibly strong and viable skills.

Those turrets are actually quite strong if you don’t use the throwable turret skill for them…that kind of bugs them out, unfortunately.

sorrychief.2563:

This has been suggested what I estimate a little over one kajillion (is that even a word?) times but if they worked like engy kits I would see no good reason to ever drop the FGS except for might stacking/healing purposes

of course Fiery Greatsword would be different as it is a Elite. The others i think could be changed a bit. Made into a Kit of course with changes to the skills, remove the one that is dropped on the floor.

I love conjures but the “swap=drop” system, as Katran called it, is not perfect.

• Conjuring a fiery greatsword and going down => lost your sword.
• Conjuring a frostbow and a fiery greatsword for Tequatl => one weapon wasted.
• Using Mist Form while holding a conjured weapon => don’t try this at home.
• Picking up another bundle on the ground while holding a conjured weapon => why did you bother conjuring it?

Of all solutions posted so far I like the option best, that you drop a weapon on the ground and that you can pick it back up again to use the remaining charges. The weapon should still disappears after 60 seconds and the timer is reset to 60 seconds the first time someone picks it up. The other propositions (engi kit, replace only skills of specific attunement) are probably overpowered.
There are still some problems with this: In dungeons, you could pass a fiery greatsword around, everyone does skill 3 and 4, drops it and the next person gives it a shot. This is OP as well. A solution would be to store the cooldowns in the weapon, but this is likely difficult to implement.

Ignavia.7420:

I love conjures but the “swap=drop” system, as Katran called it, is not perfect.

• Conjuring a fiery greatsword and going down => lost your sword.
• Conjuring a frostbow and a fiery greatsword for Tequatl => one weapon wasted.
• Using Mist Form while holding a conjured weapon => don’t try this at home.
• Picking up another bundle on the ground while holding a conjured weapon => why did you bother conjuring it?

Of all solutions posted so far I like the option best, that you drop a weapon on the ground and that you can pick it back up again to use the remaining charges. The weapon should still disappears after 60 seconds and the timer is reset to 60 seconds the first time someone picks it up. The other propositions (engi kit, replace only skills of specific attunement) are probably overpowered.
There are still some problems with this: In dungeons, you could pass a fiery greatsword around, everyone does skill 3 and 4, drops it and the next person gives it a shot. This is OP as well. A solution would be to store the cooldowns in the weapon, but this is likely difficult to implement.

Again, i would see the Utilities being the “kit” ones. They would of course have to have damage and such adjusted a little to counter it and make it so that they could work and still be balanced. Fiery Greatsword however, i think that would stay EXACTLY the same.

What if they gave eles an exclusive weapon slot for-conjured-weapons-only-slot that a conjured weapon will occupy once summoned, and disappear after time expiry/charges used as usual? The 10-second weapon swap cooldown will maybe only occur when switching away from the conjured weapon i.e. can’t switch back to the conjured weapon immediately but you can always access your main skills.
(Being able to switch back to the conjured weapon after 10 seconds may be too powerful though, maybe 20 sec CD instead?)

The secondary conjured weapon can stay a bundle for allies but will occupy this weapon slot when picked up by an ele? Not sure about what to do about the second conjured item here….

Can we summarize all suggestions and try to unite them all into something worthy? Or at least discuss each individually, seeking how to solve certain problems.

These examples do not account FGS. This skill is okay in present state

If weapon doesn’t disappear after being dropped:
- Takes time to retake it from ground
- All party members can use one weapon, dealing some ridiculous damage. (5 frostbow aoe)
How to solve:
- Instant pick up.
- Skills’ cooldowns are bound to weapon, not character.

If weapon has kit system:
- Overpowered piano.
How to solve:
- When you swap to second weapon, first is set to 60 seconds cooldown.

If weapon skills have lower cd:
- That changes a little (You’ll use frostbow like you use FGS now. Spamming 2 or 3 buttons, as often as cooldown lets you. Other weapons won’t be even influenced)

If weapon skills replace appropriate attunement skills:
- Overpowered piano
How to solve:
- One weapon at a time
- Nerf ice storm. (And boost axe skills, that would make much sense. I guess bow needs rework)

ThiBash.5634:

Being able to pick it up again after you drop it would make the weapons a lot more viable imho. Of course, Anet would either have to keep track of charges (which may have technical issues) or they would have make the weapons have some sort of duration that is linked to the weapon rather than the person wielding it.

Conjures seem fairly complex to code, maybe the current situation was the best solution.

They could just copy over the way they handle banners…

There’s only one thing they need to change to make most of the conjures more viable…

Remove the gosh-darn cast time on them.

It should be like having another weapon-set on your utility bar. I should be able to switch to the set fluidly without pausing to get it out like I’m wrankling my junk out of my pants for a quick pee.

It makes it very difficult to use the fields/finishers in the set.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

There’s only one thing they need to change to make most of the conjures more viable…

Remove the gosh-darn cast time on them.

It should be like having another weapon-set on your utility bar. I should be able to switch to the set fluidly without pausing to get it out like I’m wrankling my junk out of my pants for a quick pee.

It makes it very difficult to use the fields/finishers in the set.

That can be a first step. Yet, having 5 skills instead of 20 is like death for ele in PvP

Katran.9186:

That can be a first step. Yet, having 5 skills instead of 20 is like death for ele in PvP

Ah, but by removing the cast time on it, you’re effectively giving an ele 25 skills, because you can fluidly roll into them, and then out again like another element to swap to. And this would be a worthwhile utility.

I really feel like this is the way the weapons were meant to be used. If you’re sitting there expending all 15 charges, you’re probably PvEing and the weapons are already OK in some circumstances (lightning hammer can be pretty good)

In my opinion what i would like to see happen, which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs…

1) Remove the 60second duration
2) Remove the Usage Limit

Make them work like Engineer Kits
The ONLY one that should not be touched is the FGS, Maybe increase the skill usage say to 25-30, remove the fact that the Auto attack counts towards it and then leave the rest the way it is.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

If you’re sitting there expending all 15 charges, you’re probably PvEing

You’re confusing cause and effect. I don’t use all 15 charges as far as I can’t let myself wear a weapon more than like 5 seconds without being kitten d. If I could use a weapon and 3 attunements – holy hell, that would be perfect and it would match the idea of ele. Versatility.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

In my opinion what i would like to see happen, which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs…

1) Remove the 60second duration
2) Remove the Usage Limit

Make them work like Engineer Kits
The ONLY one that should not be touched is the FGS, Maybe increase the skill usage say to 25-30, remove the fact that the Auto attack counts towards it and then leave the rest the way it is.

You do realize that this mechanics is IMBA for PvP?

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

In my opinion what i would like to see happen, which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs…

1) Remove the 60second duration
2) Remove the Usage Limit

Make them work like Engineer Kits
The ONLY one that should not be touched is the FGS, Maybe increase the skill usage say to 25-30, remove the fact that the Auto attack counts towards it and then leave the rest the way it is.

You do realize that this mechanics is IMBA for PvP?

You do realise that is why i said: “which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs”

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

In my opinion what i would like to see happen, which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs…

1) Remove the 60second duration
2) Remove the Usage Limit

Make them work like Engineer Kits
The ONLY one that should not be touched is the FGS, Maybe increase the skill usage say to 25-30, remove the fact that the Auto attack counts towards it and then leave the rest the way it is.

You do realize that this mechanics is IMBA for PvP?

You do realise that is why i said: “which would require balancing and tweaking of skills, damage and maybe cool downs”

You do realise that 35 skills at the same time is overpowered in any state?
If my engi had 3 more kits – oh hell

Katran.9186:

You do realise that 35 skills at the same time is overpowered in any state?
If my engi had 3 more kits – oh hell

“at the same time” – you might be confusing Guild Wars 2 with WoW seeing as Ele is limited to FIVE weapon skills at any one time – Just like every other class.

So again “35 skills at same time” = W R O N G

Also lets not forget exactly how long most of the skills ele has access to is, even the Utilities are overdone on cool downs for skills that aren’t even that powerful in most cases.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Katran.9186:

You do realise that 35 skills at the same time is overpowered in any state?
If my engi had 3 more kits – oh hell

“at the same time” – you might be confusing Guild Wars 2 with WoW seeing as Ele is limited to FIVE weapon skills at any one time – Just like every other class.

So again “35 skills at same time” = W R O N G

Also lets not forget exactly how long most of the skills ele has access to is, even the Utilities are overdone on cool downs for skills that aren’t even that powerful in most cases.

Just imagine engi with six kits. Nuff said. It needs another limitation like “one weapon at a time”

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Katran.9186:

You do realise that 35 skills at the same time is overpowered in any state?
If my engi had 3 more kits – oh hell

“at the same time” – you might be confusing Guild Wars 2 with WoW seeing as Ele is limited to FIVE weapon skills at any one time – Just like every other class.

So again “35 skills at same time” = W R O N G

Also lets not forget exactly how long most of the skills ele has access to is, even the Utilities are overdone on cool downs for skills that aren’t even that powerful in most cases.

Just imagine engi with six kits. Nuff said. It needs another limitation like “one weapon at a time”

The simple fact is, you are wrong. The class has access to as many skills at any one time as every other class – 5. Sure, during the course of a fight they have access to more but at the cost of them being weaker and having longer cool downs to counter the number of skills.

Remember. It is Quality not Quantity that counts. If it was all about the number of skills the classes have access to, why are Ele struggling so much in pretty much every single part of the game?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The simple fact is, you are wrong. The class has access to as many skills at any one time as every other class – 5.

Kits have 1 second cooldown. That’s ridiculous.

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The simple fact is, you are wrong. The class has access to as many skills at any one time as every other class – 5.

Kits have 1 second cooldown. That’s ridiculous.

So? Give them the same 1 second cool down and it would be fine then?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The simple fact is, you are wrong. The class has access to as many skills at any one time as every other class – 5.

Kits have 1 second cooldown. That’s ridiculous.

So? Give them the same 1 second cool down and it would be fine then?

Are you trolling? My point is that kit system for ele won’t work because of OPness

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The simple fact is, you are wrong. The class has access to as many skills at any one time as every other class – 5.

Kits have 1 second cooldown. That’s ridiculous.

So? Give them the same 1 second cool down and it would be fine then?

Are you trolling? My point is that kit system for ele won’t work because of OPness

Are you unable to read? I have already stated several times that of course the skills and cooldowns would need to be rebalanced. They could even give it say a 30second cool down.

So that you can use it as long as you want, but once you leave it is given a 30second cool down before you can use it again.

Just saying it will be “OP” despite ignoring that i have said SEVERAL times that the skills and cool downs would need to be adjusted makes you look more of a Troll than me.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I have already stated several times that of course the skills and cooldowns would need to be rebalanced. They could even give it say a 30second cool down.

You were talking about “skills” you never said “weapons”. Talking about kit mechanics, we state that default cd for weapons would be 1 second.

Katran.9186:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I have already stated several times that of course the skills and cooldowns would need to be rebalanced. They could even give it say a 30second cool down.

You were talking about “skills” you never said “weapons”. Talking about kit mechanics, we state that default cd for weapons would be 1 second.

weapon skills? Weapon skills wouldnt have to be changed at all. The Conjure skills as in the 1-5 skills that get changed to once you summon it would be the skills that would get damage adjustments and cool down adjustments.

I reckon to make it that little bit different to kits, Allow them to use them for as long as they want, add a 30second cool down once you switch out to either another kit or back to your default weapons.

Maybe even make that it equipping one “Conjure Kit” would make it so that you wouldn’t be able to use another or switch just between them. So you couldn’t go from Lightening Hammer into Frost Bow.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

weapon skills? Weapon skills wouldnt have to be changed at all. The Conjure skills as in the 1-5 skills that get changed to once you summon it would be the skills that would get damage adjustments and cool down adjustments.

I reckon to make it that little bit different to kits, Allow them to use them for as long as they want, add a 30second cool down once you switch out to either another kit or back to your default weapons.

Maybe even make that it equipping one “Conjure Kit” would make it so that you wouldn’t be able to use another or switch just between them. So you couldn’t go from Lightening Hammer into Frost Bow.

Yeah, now we’re talking, that’s what I was thinking of in the field of kits. Just a little misunderstanding happened.

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now

Looks like it.

For me they are far too clunky to ever be worth slotting.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

Do you play tpvp? Conjuries are not viable now. Blind kid can evade frostbow stun, for god’s sake. While you casting weapon, then casting stun, you’ll die ten times. Overpowered aoe is easy to evade too. The only role that conjury ele can play now is the role that zerk warrior played before. “Hurr durr, while they’re fighting I’ll rush in and do massive damage, then die. If I go 1×1 I’ll die. If they spot me earlier than I cast my stun – I’ll die. Hurr, gameplay, viable, flexible.”

Katran.9186:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

Do you play tpvp? Conjuries are not viable now. Blind kid can evade frostbow stun, for god’s sake. While you casting weapon, then casting stun, you’ll die ten times. Overpowered aoe is easy to evade too. The only role that conjury ele can play now is the role that zerk warrior played before. “Hurr durr, while they’re fighting I’ll rush in and do massive damage, then die. If I go 1×1 I’ll die. If they spot me earlier than I cast my stun – I’ll die. Hurr, gameplay, viable, flexible.”

I don’t pretend to play top-level PvP, though I am very aware of what is and isn’t viable there. I main glass staff, because I don’t particularly care about what is and isn’t viable, only what I find fun, which is also why I run a conjure.
Though I will point out something, which is that you just described using it in every single way it doesn’t work. It’s situational, but it is a fairly common situation that it is useful in and it can very easily win battles for you, though it does require a little bit more thought than running in guns blazing.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Though I will point out something, which is that you just described using it in every single way it doesn’t work. It’s situational, but it is a fairly common situation that it is useful in and it can very easily win battles for you, though it does require a little bit more thought than running in guns blazing.

Shooting aoe from elevation\Shooting stun from the corner won’t work in pvp. Hotjoins – yeah, glass staff, conjured bow, axe, whatever work fine. You just pour aoe at mid point.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

Axe is very good atm for might stacking burst builds. When I play conjures I use my weapon sets as my utilities. I sit in axe most of the time until I can set up burst. It’s a different play style, which I like, but there are some minor adjustments that need to be made.

Katran.9186:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Though I will point out something, which is that you just described using it in every single way it doesn’t work. It’s situational, but it is a fairly common situation that it is useful in and it can very easily win battles for you, though it does require a little bit more thought than running in guns blazing.

Shooting aoe from elevation\Shooting stun from the corner won’t work in pvp. Hotjoins – yeah, glass staff, conjured bow, axe, whatever work fine. You just pour aoe at mid point.

Really, debating about ele having any serious viability in any form in PvP is kind of silly. You pretty much have to massively outplay everyone else, and when you’re doing that already frost bow does make it easier to get kills and stay alive, especially in teamfights where you can completely destroy all enemy rezzing capability.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You pretty much have to massively outplay everyone else

You have to massively outplay enemy in 4v5 to have ele in team. Because now eles are useless glass-cannons. Or full-condi necro destroyers with diamond skin, lel Reworked conjuries can be one of the ways how to boost eles.

Pyriall.5027:

Axe is very good atm for might stacking burst builds. When I play conjures I use my weapon sets as my utilities. I sit in axe most of the time until I can set up burst. It’s a different play style, which I like, but there are some minor adjustments that need to be made.

Axe is quite good but it doesn’t has enough, eh, velocity to be really useful in pvp. Nevertheless it can be used by double dagger eles as ranged weapon BUT when did you see dd ele last time?