(edited by PlatypusRex.3428)
Conjures: Revelations and Suggestions
The following is a list of other suggestions related to conjures, taken from comments posted below. I’ll update this as the comments come in. To stay on topic, I will ignore suggestions that stray from the conjure weapon debate specifically.
- make weapons similar to engineer kits
- get rid of charges entirely
- make the buff of conjure weapons up as passive
- make a trait for 20% reduction on CDs like glyphs and signets
- make weapons occupy the F5, no longer shutting out attunements.
- get rid of each conjure as a utility, allow ele to pick one to occupy F5 slot at all time.
- have each conjure function differently, depending on attunement
- (from another thread) create Signet/Glyph of conjuration. All conjures in one utility slot which changes on attunement.
(edited by PlatypusRex.3428)
The problems with Conjure weapons:
- BIG cool down
- Usage cap (why have a limited number of uses i dont know)
What they SHOULD do but wont – remove the second weapon option or have a trait to reduce cool down or increase damage or something and balance the weapons around being usebale and reduce the cool down to make it similar to Kits
Ele has one HUGE problem – locked into either Melee or Ranged when engaging in combat thanks to lack of in combat weapon swap having the ability to have PROPER conjure weapons would not only make them useful but they would be of great help for the class IMO
Conjures need to have a swap on demand utility associated with them to truly be useful so that you can fluidly switch between one weapon to another similar to our attunement swaps. Agree with the utility slot idea like the Engy would probably make this work as a viable build.
The use cap just kills me, warrior banners and engi drops don’t stop working til their time is up, can we have that please?
Also I was really interested in the weapon for the staffs buff, but it’s only up while you’re holding (the first!) weapon, so you can’t summon it to buff a normal ability T_T
I think they should have the buff as a passive for having the weapon on cooldown, like the inverse of signets.
Maybe the cooldowns would be reduced by 20% in line with other trait reductions (or just let them be affected by the normal cooldown reduction.
I wouldn’t mind having the weapon be swappable for its duration either (again, like kits, engis have what i want sometimes :P)
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Thank you for the suggestions / comments.
I’d like to bring the conversation back around to the initial question(s) buried in the stats of my 1st post:
Would you use conjures more if they didn’t drop a 2nd weapon but had 50% faster cool downs on all skills?
Could you see this as a viable play style?
Would you consider this OP?
The initial post shows what the cool downs would be if they were all cut in half if you want to consider it without having to look up the skills.
(edited by PlatypusRex.3428)
I would use Frost Bow if they didnt have such a long cool down and were like Engineer kits in that they didnt have a set number of uses and can be used until YOU want to change back to normal weapons, until then they are pretty poor bar a few events in dungeons (such as burrows)
I would use Frost Bow if they didnt have such a long cool down and were like Engineer kits in that they didnt have a set number of uses and can be used until YOU want to change back to normal weapons, until then they are pretty poor bar a few events in dungeons (such as burrows)
Great!
Would people be willing to give weapons like the earth shield another go with the 50% reduction? I’d love to see these weapons get more play time.
Would you use conjures more if they didn’t drop a 2nd weapon but had 50% faster cool downs on all skills?
Yes.
Could you see this as a viable play style?
Yes, with a few more tweaks. What you suggest is a good start, but more is needed for it to become a viable build.
Would you consider this OP?
Not by a long country mile.
The initial post shows what the cool downs would be if they were all cut in half if you want to consider it without having to look up the skills.
The suggested CD’s would be fine if they were coupled with a swap on demand utility, similar to the Engy utility slots. Without this, very few people I think would ever use Conjured Weaps as a main build because swapping is too awkward and you lose the benefit of your primary skills while using them. For people to want to use them there needs to be much more of a compelling reason to do so.
I see.
What if when you declare your element of choice at character creation it determines your conjure weapon as an F5? You could change it later. Existing Eles would be given the choice after a patch or when re-traiting. This would let people see themselves as “lightning elementalists, wielding the hammer” or “earth elementalists, wielding the shield” without changing anything else related to attunement swapping.
I would use Frost Bow if they didnt have such a long cool down and were like Engineer kits in that they didnt have a set number of uses and can be used until YOU want to change back to normal weapons, until then they are pretty poor bar a few events in dungeons (such as burrows)
Great!
Would people be willing to give weapons like the earth shield another go with the 50% reduction? I’d love to see these weapons get more play time.
I run D/D so lack proper Range abilities so for that i would only be interested in a Frost Bow, Maybe the Axe could do a job for a Staff build.
Always think that builds should have BOTH a melee and Range option, which is easy for other classes thanks to weapon swap and for Engi with with Weapon Kits, how ever Ele doesnt have that and how it got ignored i have no idea.
I see.
What if when you declare your element of choice at character creation it determines your conjure weapon as an F5? You could change it later. Existing Eles would be given the choice after a patch or when re-traiting. This would let people see themselves as “lightning elementalists, wielding the hammer” or “earth elementalists, wielding the shield” without changing anything else related to attunement swapping.
Now your talking, but not sure where your going with this…
Your talking about forcing people to choose one attunement over all others as a “primary”. This is an outstanding idea to me. Not so sure about others. Also, assuming Anet was willing to completely “re-tool” the Ele into something like this, how would the Conjurs work? What about your regular abilities in your chosen Attunement?
I see.
What if when you declare your element of choice at character creation it determines your conjure weapon as an F5? You could change it later. Existing Eles would be given the choice after a patch or when re-traiting. This would let people see themselves as “lightning elementalists, wielding the hammer” or “earth elementalists, wielding the shield” without changing anything else related to attunement swapping.
Personally kinda like the idea in that you pick the element you like the most and get some sort of bonus/buff to that element but i dont think Conjure weapons should be on that line.
Think they should be option to everyone – think CGS should stay the way it is, maybe buff it a bit as it is meant to be an elite but the others i think would need a tweak and reduced damage if they are going to be allowed to be used for extended periods of time
All the choice would determine is what conjure you get in your new F5 slot. Conjures would no longer be available as a utility spell. Choose earth, you get the shield in your F5 slot. Swap to it like you do everything else. Tweak the cool downs a bit. Choose water, you rock the bow….same as above. Make the “wrong” choice? Go to town, retrait, and be given the option to choose your new primary element…which really is just what conjure you want in your F5.
Change nothing else about attunements 1-4 and how they work.
I see.
What if when you declare your element of choice at character creation it determines your conjure weapon as an F5? You could change it later. Existing Eles would be given the choice after a patch or when re-traiting. This would let people see themselves as “lightning elementalists, wielding the hammer” or “earth elementalists, wielding the shield” without changing anything else related to attunement swapping.
Now your talking, but not sure where your going with this…
Your talking about forcing people to choose one attunement over all others as a “primary”. This is an outstanding idea to me. Not so sure about others. Also, assuming Anet was willing to completely “re-tool” the Ele into something like this, how would the Conjurs work? What about your regular abilities in your chosen Attunement?
An idea could be – The abilities change depending on your current Atunement for example for “Frost Bow”
Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air – Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or something
Earth would be the tough one, could make it like the staff but tweak it so they suit a bow weapon. This could be done for all the conjures so that you dont have an Offensive and defensive Conjures – let you continue to play the way you like with the element you like
All the choice would determine is what conjure you get in your new F5 slot. Conjures would no longer be available as a utility spell. Choose earth, you get the shield in your F5 slot. Swap to it like you do everything else. Tweak the cool downs a bit. Choose water, you rock the bow….same as above. Make the “wrong” choice? Go to town, retrait, and be given the option to choose your new primary element…which really is just what conjure you want in your F5.
Change nothing else about attunements 1-4 and how they work.
So why would I want to lose the use of all the other Conjurs? What do you propose to offset the loss of 4 other weapons? You have basically turned a great concept into a nerf proposal here..
No thanks!! Ele’s have been way overnerfed as it is. We don’t need any more.
That wasn’t what I wanted necessarily. I was just expanding on another line of discussion. The real issue is 50% reduction in cool downs for loss of 2nd weapon for a party member.
I see.
What if when you declare your element of choice at character creation it determines your conjure weapon as an F5? You could change it later. Existing Eles would be given the choice after a patch or when re-traiting. This would let people see themselves as “lightning elementalists, wielding the hammer” or “earth elementalists, wielding the shield” without changing anything else related to attunement swapping.
Now your talking, but not sure where your going with this…
Your talking about forcing people to choose one attunement over all others as a “primary”. This is an outstanding idea to me. Not so sure about others. Also, assuming Anet was willing to completely “re-tool” the Ele into something like this, how would the Conjurs work? What about your regular abilities in your chosen Attunement?
An idea could be – The abilities change depending on your current Atunement for example for “Frost Bow”
Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air – Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or somethingEarth would be the tough one, could make it like the staff but tweak it so they suit a bow weapon. This could be done for all the conjures so that you dont have an Offensive and defensive Conjures – let you continue to play the way you like with the element you like
Like where your going with this and its kind of what I thought Plat was headed towards.. Didn’t realize he was talking about nerfing our class…
This is a great discussion and there are some awesome ideas bubbling up from it. Whether Anet will listen to us or not is another story but, to expand on all the above, I was thinking that if we take Plats idea of picking an attunement, you basically choose that attunement to specialize in above all others. At that point you then will get additional benefits for being in that attunement, those traits/skills would get a 10% buff and all others a 10% decrease in overall effectiveness. The chosen weapon set becomes a utility slot much like the Engy and when you select it, your skills change over to that weapons, with increased stat bonuses to include Plats suggestions and an additional 10-20% stat bonus to offset the loss of all the other weapons which we would lose unless we run back to town and respec.
(edited by boozer.7815)
Like where your going with this and its kind of what I thought Plat was headed towards.. Didn’t realize he was talking about nerfing our class…
Yeah, the idea of picking a elemental specialty or something could be good if we got something from it but that DINT force us into that role/element most of the time – maybe a utility spell or something
This is a great discussion and there are some awesome ideas bubbling up from it. Whether Anet will listen to us or not is another story but, to expand on all the above, I was thinking that if we take Plats idea of picking an attunement, you basically choose that attunement to specialize in above all others. At that point you then will get additional benefits for being in that attunement, those traits/skills would get a 10% buff and all others a 10% decrease in overall effectiveness. The chosen weapon set becomes a utility slot much like the Engy and when you select it, your skills change over to that weapons, which increased stat bonuses.
stats should NOT be changed, it should be some sort of ability. Having stat increases and decreases is to much and is to much of a nerf for situations other then the one you WANT to happen.
like going fire – you deal more damage but take more damage kind of thing this would mean you would need to go Water/Earth in traits to counter the more damage you take
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
so you wouldnt have access to the other elements?
That would be a HUGE nerf to the class
We NEED the other elements for all out defense/offense abilities they cant all be sqeezed onto a single set of 5/10 abilities or would you rather it – if you picked
Fire you ONLY had damage – No CC, no Defense, no healing
Air you ONLY had CC/Group damage – Less damage then fire, no healing, no defense
Water you ONLY had healing – no damage, no CC, no defense
Earth you ONLY had defense – no damage, no healing, no CC
?
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
so you wouldnt have access to the other elements?
That would be a HUGE nerf to the classWe NEED the other elements for all out defense/offense abilities they cant all be sqeezed onto a single set of 5/10 abilities or would you rather it – if you picked
Fire you ONLY had damage – No CC, no Defense, no healing
Air you ONLY had CC/Group damage – Less damage then fire, no healing, no defense
Water you ONLY had healing – no damage, no CC, no defense
Earth you ONLY had defense – no damage, no healing, no CC?
I said you would lose the option of slotting the other Conjured Weapons, NOT the regular attunement skills or swaps…. This is what Plat suggested and I am building on it.
Essentially, you would gain a 5th attunement slot. The last one would be the weapon. So you would now have 4 attunement slots and also a weapon slot. You would no longer need to slot a weapon in 6-9. It would always be available to you via your utility slot..
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
so you wouldnt have access to the other elements?
That would be a HUGE nerf to the classWe NEED the other elements for all out defense/offense abilities they cant all be sqeezed onto a single set of 5/10 abilities or would you rather it – if you picked
Fire you ONLY had damage – No CC, no Defense, no healing
Air you ONLY had CC/Group damage – Less damage then fire, no healing, no defense
Water you ONLY had healing – no damage, no CC, no defense
Earth you ONLY had defense – no damage, no healing, no CC?
I said you would lose the option of slotting the other Conjured Weapons, NOT the regular attunement skills or swaps…. This is what Plat suggested and I am building on it.
Essentially, you would gain a 5th attunement slot. The last one would be the weapon. So you would now have 4 attunement slots and also a weapon slot. You would no longer need to slot a weapon in 6-9. It would always be available to you via your utility slot..
So we would basically lose like 4 or 5 utility abilities and what about the Greatsword?
In my opinion as it is, this wouldnt work. Keep them as “kits” and get some other new F5 ability that can be cast in attunement no matter what the ability is
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
so you wouldnt have access to the other elements?
That would be a HUGE nerf to the classWe NEED the other elements for all out defense/offense abilities they cant all be sqeezed onto a single set of 5/10 abilities or would you rather it – if you picked
Fire you ONLY had damage – No CC, no Defense, no healing
Air you ONLY had CC/Group damage – Less damage then fire, no healing, no defense
Water you ONLY had healing – no damage, no CC, no defense
Earth you ONLY had defense – no damage, no healing, no CC?
I said you would lose the option of slotting the other Conjured Weapons, NOT the regular attunement skills or swaps…. This is what Plat suggested and I am building on it.
Essentially, you would gain a 5th attunement slot. The last one would be the weapon. So you would now have 4 attunement slots and also a weapon slot. You would no longer need to slot a weapon in 6-9. It would always be available to you via your utility slot..
So we would basically lose like 4 or 5 utility abilities and what about the Greatsword?
In my opinion as it is, this wouldnt work. Keep them as “kits” and get some other new F5 ability that can be cast in attunement no matter what the ability is
You lose the ability to summon 3 other weapons. On second thought, FGS is fine and could stay as an additional Summon in our Elite slot. Hey, its an elite slot after all so the option should remain to us to summon an additional powerful weapon from it. Doing it this way produces the following:
1. The f5 slot now becomes an insta cast weapon. No summon needed, and you get that weapon without any duration or charge hindrances. You will also be able to swap in or out of it per normal attunement swap limitations, ie. attunement swap CD based upon Arcana spec.
2. No longer a need to slot weapons in the 6-8 slots or the need to summon them except for the FGS. This means you can focus slots 6-8 for Glyphs, Cantrips, etc. and still have the use of your chosen weapon with the option to swap to another attunement at will.
3. This opens the door for combo field/finisher options we currently do not have with the current setup. Think of the possibilities…
Shame that NONE of this will even be considered for Elementalists they will just be looking at what we use the most and enjoy now which is D/D and find away not only to nerf it but break it beyond it being semi useful
An option could be rather then losing all the other conjure abilities is that they are moved to F5 and changed so that the abilities represent what element you are in, you can only have one of these conjures ready to be used at anyone time but they can be changed while out of combat
so the abilities would be as like what i mentioned above with them varying on what attunement you are in – but they wont change from being Range to melee – so the Axe will be primarily a Melee weapon with gap closers/stuns while weapons like Bow would be range attacks such as AoE in Fire, Single/2-3 target in Air and Water could be for like condition removal, healing, boons ect
While the Shield could be defensive but give different benefits – Fury/Might stacks for you while burning foes if in Fire, Air could be like daze, stuns and such while Water could be things like regeneration, chill and leave the earth one the way it is
Ok, lots of things going on here. I’m going to edit the initial post down to my core idea and then edit the 2nd post to others’ suggestions. This is all great stuff.
Another conjure kind of idea – forget summoning elemental what if it turned YOU into one :O that would be a freaking sick idea beef up the appearances a bit, a bit of work to the fire one (due to flying) and it would be the COOLEST elite in the whole game!
Well, the basic idea here is that your character specializes in one attunement… So that attunement should be more effective than all the others. This is in line with the “Lightning Mage”, or the “Ice/Water Wizard” concept. I do agree with your assessment of losing stats though, so perhaps just call it an overall 10% increased effectiveness for that chosen attunement which offsets the loss of all the other weapons.
so you wouldnt have access to the other elements?
That would be a HUGE nerf to the classWe NEED the other elements for all out defense/offense abilities they cant all be sqeezed onto a single set of 5/10 abilities or would you rather it – if you picked
Fire you ONLY had damage – No CC, no Defense, no healing
Air you ONLY had CC/Group damage – Less damage then fire, no healing, no defense
Water you ONLY had healing – no damage, no CC, no defense
Earth you ONLY had defense – no damage, no healing, no CC?
I said you would lose the option of slotting the other Conjured Weapons, NOT the regular attunement skills or swaps…. This is what Plat suggested and I am building on it.
Essentially, you would gain a 5th attunement slot. The last one would be the weapon. So you would now have 4 attunement slots and also a weapon slot. You would no longer need to slot a weapon in 6-9. It would always be available to you via your utility slot..
So we would basically lose like 4 or 5 utility abilities and what about the Greatsword?
In my opinion as it is, this wouldnt work. Keep them as “kits” and get some other new F5 ability that can be cast in attunement no matter what the ability is
To be clear on a couple of points.
1. I was trying to summarize / build on another person’s point on this. I don’t necessarily think this is the way to go. Just pursuing a line of discussion.
2. I wouldn’t necessarily see it as a nerf. How many builds use more than one conjure at a time? This change would make a new F5 slot and free up any number of utility slots for cantrips, arcane, etc. The only nerf would be to those who use multiple weapons at once.
3. This change would not touch FGS as an elite.
4. You could pick the one conjure that would compliment your build and change it at will outside of combat / in town, etc.
That said, my primary choice would be my initial post of 50% cool down to conjure skills, removing the dropped weapon, and keeping everything else as is.
I’m loving all of the other ideas, though. Keep them coming and I’ll keep updating post #2.
An option could be rather then losing all the other conjure abilities is that they are moved to F5 and changed so that the abilities represent what element you are in, you can only have one of these conjures ready to be used at anyone time but they can be changed while out of combat
so the abilities would be as like what i mentioned above with them varying on what attunement you are in – but they wont change from being Range to melee – so the Axe will be primarily a Melee weapon with gap closers/stuns while weapons like Bow would be range attacks such as AoE in Fire, Single/2-3 target in Air and Water could be for like condition removal, healing, boons ect
While the Shield could be defensive but give different benefits – Fury/Might stacks for you while burning foes if in Fire, Air could be like daze, stuns and such while Water could be things like regeneration, chill and leave the earth one the way it is
Maybe it’s because I’m tired / sick, but I’m having trouble with this one. Can you try to explain it again, so I can add it to the collective list? Thanks.
Conjures will continue to be bad until you can switch attunements and use other attunement skills as normal while holding the conjured weapon.
Blocking out 5 skills is bearable, blocking out 20 is just silly.
downed state is bad for PVP
only two things i want to see.
no ground target. cast at target or at feet.
Or
change fast ground target overall to be cast at current target or normal ground target if no current target.
and
fgs castable on the run.
rest of it is meh…
the shield needs work but the concept of having the shield be a set of utility skills is on the right course. it feels natural that way. They could change all the skills in shield to be just defensive utility and id be ok with that.
lightning hammer i hear is strong but i have yet to put a lot of time into it.
dont care about charges. default ax duration is about perfect.
FGS last too long IMHO but its a good weapon for destroying structures. its just not better than attunment dancing.
if they are expected to be used over regular weapons permanently then all conjures should be on the elite skill. so i get access to all the other utility skills.
(edited by Crunchy Gremlin.5798)
An option could be rather then losing all the other conjure abilities is that they are moved to F5 and changed so that the abilities represent what element you are in, you can only have one of these conjures ready to be used at anyone time but they can be changed while out of combat
so the abilities would be as like what i mentioned above with them varying on what attunement you are in – but they wont change from being Range to melee – so the Axe will be primarily a Melee weapon with gap closers/stuns while weapons like Bow would be range attacks such as AoE in Fire, Single/2-3 target in Air and Water could be for like condition removal, healing, boons ect
While the Shield could be defensive but give different benefits – Fury/Might stacks for you while burning foes if in Fire, Air could be like daze, stuns and such while Water could be things like regeneration, chill and leave the earth one the way it is
Maybe it’s because I’m tired / sick, but I’m having trouble with this one. Can you try to explain it again, so I can add it to the collective list? Thanks.
A few posts above i mentioned how the weapons abilities could change based on the attunement you are – the example above i gave was the bow but could work for all the conjure weapons.
Then have them all on F5, like a drop down list but you can only have one “active” and usable at a time. That way D/D eles could have the bow for the element they want rather then being forced to use it in Water/frost
While Staff eles could go for the Axe or shield as they have great range but limited melee so could be great for them as the Bow could be for the melee D/D ele.
Each weapon should have abilities based on the element you are rather then what the weapon is, that way they will gain the benefits of the trait system that gives benefits for being in a specific element, you can also keep the weapon up and change attunements like you can with our current main weapons and they would give the conjure weapons different abilities based on attunement
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.
They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
people need to learn to drop the weapons. You’re not supposed to hold onto them or use them like kits. They are to be summoned, used, and discarded as necessary. I think their cooldowns could be reduced, definately, and they need to be given more in the way of utility to make them woth a slot. on-summon buffs would be very welcome.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.
Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.
Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat
though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat
though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases
I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.
currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.
I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat
though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases
I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.
In my opinion – I think the conjure weapons would be better suited to changing based on the element you are in. Maybe give a bonus for that element as well. As i posted earlier
for example for “Frost Bow”
Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air Bow– Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or something
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lol
This way you can run D/D and have the Bow but still have the option of using the bow the way you want and get the most use from it. The same could be done with all the weapons, not forcing the weapons into a specific play style due to how limiting the weapons are
to the OP.
I rarely if ever use the second conjure.
I dont consider these weapons better than standard weapons.
so conjure x2 means little to me.
Conjures benefit the ele in the low spots of their attack cycle or combat type. Or add power to elements, like water, that normally do not have a lot of power.
consider how often any of the utilities are used.
Lightning flash is great but i want to use it with churning earth not just whenever. Too noob to know how to use it otherwise.
I use ax the same way. I have a lot on cool down and i need a short gap closer. ax, ring of fire, leap, roll, explode, autoattack or drop.
I have used ax for a little extra movement too by just leaping away.
this is one reason i want FGS to cast on the run. the movement bonus from that would be fairly powerful. its really a decent retreat weapon save that i have to stand still to cast it which makes a near useless retreat weapon.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat
though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases
I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.
In my opinion – I think the conjure weapons would be better suited to changing based on the element you are in. Maybe give a bonus for that element as well. As i posted earlier
for example for “Frost Bow”
Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air Bow– Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or something
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lolThis way you can run D/D and have the Bow but still have the option of using the bow the way you want and get the most use from it. The same could be done with all the weapons, not forcing the weapons into a specific play style due to how limiting the weapons are
i wouldn’t mind this if they removed normal weapons all together.
They are limited in usage but they are just utility.
If you use them more like utility they work reasonably well. at least ax does.
conjures already gain the bonus of the element you are in. any element.
Please guys seriously use the weapons before deciding how the need to be changed.They gain increases based on the weapon – not the element you are in. If you are in Fire, Earth or Air it will still give the same bonus to the weapon – its based on what WEAPON it is rather then what element you are in for the bonus
I guess i dont understand what you mean.
the passive element bonus’s work on conjures like they work on regular weapons.
if you have 10% bonus damage in fire the conjures get that while you are in fire.Ah okay i was thinking the stat increases like condition damage and such not from traits
can you explain that further?
what do you mean stat increases?
conjures, as far as i know, do not change anything about atunment dancing. just the weapon skills available.Since the update (or before never really use them) each Conjure weapon increases certain stats – for example i think the Bow increases Healing Power and Condition damage think the Great sword increases Power and Precision and the Shield increases Toughness and maybe another stat
though this happens only for the first weapon, so if you pick up the second you dont get the stat increases
I get you. so what are you proposing then? that the conjure stat come from the element they are in?
this i dont care for so much as it “breaks” some kinds of conjure usage.currently i can take ax and run it from water. getting passive healing and +20% damage when the target is vulnerable.
that can be mixed with an arcane build to apply vulnerability with arcane spells or aura build and apply vulnerability with signets. i dont like signets much though. too slow to use.
Some of the normally less useful traits start becoming somewhat reasonable when used with conjures.I dont want to see the ele get more complicated. its hard enough to remember to be in water to use the conjure.
In my opinion – I think the conjure weapons would be better suited to changing based on the element you are in. Maybe give a bonus for that element as well. As i posted earlier
for example for “Frost Bow”
Flame Bow: Good AoE damage and Multi target damage – similar to the staff
Water Bow – Similar to water Staff – Healing, chill
Air Bow– Good Single Target, a Good Multi target (fan shot?) and some sort of CC like cripple, weakness or something
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lolThis way you can run D/D and have the Bow but still have the option of using the bow the way you want and get the most use from it. The same could be done with all the weapons, not forcing the weapons into a specific play style due to how limiting the weapons are
i wouldn’t mind this if they removed normal weapons all together.
They are limited in usage but they are just utility.
If you use them more like utility they work reasonably well. at least ax does.
Thinking more of an “F5” or Utility slot rather then removing all our weapons. That way we could have 2 types of weapon at the moment are are weakened by the fact in combat we cant weapon swap/use kit to go from Melee to Range or from Range to melee
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lol
Earth should be all CC – Roots, Snares, Stuns, Daze/Confuse
I had thought when i started to use conjures that being able to choose them as an elite would be alright.
consider the possibility of combining your ideas with that.
leave conjures pretty much as they are. add the ability to choose them as elites.
while in elite form they work something like what you are talking about. or a new elite that is the conjure glyph.
when i look at this stuff i think of what is the easiest change with the least impact with the most feel.
the problem with large changes is they are going to come out broken or take a really long time to start working.
look at all the ele bugs. IMHO is doesnt matter what things should be. it is this way and working within that model will get things done faster.
I like dreaming but realism is important when implementing dreams.
change the ground target so that the cast time really is 1/4 of a sec.
allow the FGS to be castable on the run.
Earth Bow – Not sure how to make a bow defensive lol
Earth should be all CC – Roots, Snares, Stuns, Daze/Confuse
Yeah thinking something alone the lines of:
- Throw Shield at target they get stunned for X seconds
- people that attack you for the next x Seconds become stunned
- ????
- ????
- Become immune to damage for X seconds