Guild Wars 2

This is a WvW focused post

So there has been some talk about Strength Runes they are expensive right now mostly because they are good in WvW and PvE. Hoelbrak is a very very good option I wouldn’t say it’s worse then Strength but it’s different. Against a condition build you could potentially put on more pressure since you could stay on the enemy longer before being forced to back off.

First lets look at might stacking effectiveness

• Sigil of battle w/ Hoelbrak+30 arcana = 32 seconds of might
• Sigil of battle w/ Strength+30 arcana -= 35 seconds of might

Fire Field blast finisher(might from elemental attunement is the same)
15 seconds base

• Hoelbrak+30 arcana = 24 seconds of might
• Strenghth+30 arcana = 26 seconds of might

So lets look at 2 builds

Rune of Strength build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcM6c2zwwBd0APAC5fv2JKQ5qJfC-TFCFABls/AWKBB4EA4kSqkUu4wDAIR1fUTPApA0TZE-w

This is a typical build you would see in WvW standard D/D setup.
2272 Power
30% crit chance pre fury,
2575 Armor
179 crit dmg

75% might duration
7% damage while under might

Here you would see battle sigil w/ air or strength or energy.

Now what if we a few sacrifices but also add the ability to deal with conditions

Hoelbrak build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcM6c2zwwBd0APAC5fv2JKQ5qJfC-TVCFABAcCAuSJISKHcSJVSKRc4BAko6Pts/ga6BIFATKjA-w

2170 Power
31 Crit chance pre fury
2540 Armor
182 Crit damage

60% might duration
-60% condition duration

So the Effective Power difference in these 2 builds assuming 25 might stacks and 100% fury uptime.

Effective Power: 4727.77 Strength @ 25 stacks of might

Effective Power: 4321.99 for Hoelbrak @ 25 stacks of might

Both builds can stack 25 stacks of might Hoelbrak will have -60% condition duration. Assuming with food Food buff: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

In WvW sacrificing some damage for condition management isn’t unheard of. Eles wouldn’t even put points into water for cleansing water or cleansing wave. We would just take the 3 water and be done with it.

Do you do less dps then strength? Yes but you do much better against conditions reducing their potential damage by 60%. Warriors are running -65% with melandru -98% to cripple chill and immobilize.

A Elementalist can get -93% cripple, chill, and immobilize with strength runes sacrifice some water points go into Earth for Stone Splinters get geomancers freedom. Just something to think about if you are looking for possible points to move.

TL:DR So in summary will you hit less then Strength users? Yes, but you will be much stronger against condition builds, and soft cc of power builds by far. The immobilze from the mesmer ileap may wear off before he can even blurred frenzy the strength user might be forced to get hit by it.

This is all assuming with food Food buff: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

I thought hoelbrak runes only reduced condition duration by 20%.

Do you mind if I ask where you got that 60% condition duration decrease from?

Caom.9251:

I thought hoelbrak runes only reduced condition duration by 20%.

Do you mind if I ask where you got that 60% condition duration decrease from?

Food buff: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

Caom.9251:

I thought hoelbrak runes only reduced condition duration by 20%.

Do you mind if I ask where you got that 60% condition duration decrease from?

Sorry with food I assume with food thats the one thing about – duration runes is that without the food the decrease isn’t substantial. So -40% condition duration food and -20% condition duration with hoelbrak runes.

Both build links are using standard food choices but added it to the OP for those that don’t know.

I personally don’t like using the build with -60% with condi duration, only because you’re factoring in food.. And food can be applied to anything. Because even with strength, you have that jump in EP and still have 40% condi dura (which is arguably more effective). So the question really is where do you want to put a 20% modifier. To stats (basically) or -condi.

It’ll come down to flavor.

(I don’t use either rune but have tested both.)

Mbelch.9028:

I personally don’t like using the build with -60% with condi duration, only because you’re factoring in food.. And food can be applied to anything. Because even with strength, you have that jump in EP and still have 40% condi dura (which is arguably more effective). So the question really is where do you want to put a 20% modifier. To stats (basically) or -condi.

It’ll come down to flavor.

(I don’t use either rune but have tested both.)

Not necessarily I find the food lackluster on it’s own that’s my opinion.

You have 1 stack of bleed for 10 seconds, you reduce the bleed to 6 seconds with just food.

Holebrak reduces that bleed to to 4 seconds. If the bleed is 100 damage that’s 200 hp difference you saved. Now if that was 8 stacks of bleed the hoelbrak setup has 1600 more HP then you do this gap becomes larger the more damaging conditions you have on you.

Say your fighting a build with 1500 condition damage

7 second Burn is 703
10 stacks @ 5 seconds Bleed is 118
9 second poison 230

So you just have on food you would take: 7502 damage or 46% HP of a 16k Ele

Now same scenario but you have hoelbrak and the food: 5389 or 33% HP of a 16k Ele.

Hoelbrak comes out on top even further the less points you put into water. If you only want to go 1-3 points in water and say move to 4 fire or 6 Air the damage difference will be much less.

For food I always factor in food into my build I never factor guard stacks or assume full bloodlusts but food is always factored in.

The less points you put into water you’re absolutely correct. — it becomes a far more useful rune set.

Like I said it is a flavor choice, but it truly is deciding where 20% will go to. Removing conditions, or buffing power.

My personal favorite build doesn’t even go two into water, so I see your points, it just becomes a matter of what allows you greater control in a fight.

Hoelbrak is a very good rune-set choice for D/D eles who want to build for a bruiser/attrition playstyle. I would just say, however, that usually getting into a battle of attrition with a condi class will end up with a loss. Against condi-tanks, your best chance is to burst them and the fight fast before they can weigh you down with their millions of extra-condi procs and overwhelm you.

I think, as with many things, any offensive play-style gains more from going more offensive and letting how you play cover up the weaknesses, as opposed to diluting your build and reducing your strengths in order to shore up your weaknesses.

BlackBeard.2873:

Hoelbrak is a very good rune-set choice for D/D eles who want to build for a bruiser/attrition playstyle. I would just say, however, that usually getting into a battle of attrition with a condi class will end up with a loss. Against condi-tanks, your best chance is to burst them and the fight fast before they can weigh you down with their millions of extra-condi procs and overwhelm you.

I think, as with many things, any offensive play-style gains more from going more offensive and letting how you play cover up the weaknesses, as opposed to diluting your build and reducing your strengths in order to shore up your weaknesses.

This is how you fight a condition class!!! I tell people all the time that is what the condi class want’s you to do. Great comment here BB.

Hoelbrak isn’t going to a big drop in damage from strength in PvP and is good alternative if you don’t want to spend the gold on strength.

The thing is a 0/10/0/30/30 already has tons of condi clear, and if you take ether renewal your almost immune to them. I think orrian truffle & meat stew is actually an awesome food for d/d eles (~10sec of might on dodge)

Carpboy.7145:

The thing is a 0/10/0/30/30 already has tons of condi clear, and if you take ether renewal your almost immune to them. I think orrian truffle & meat stew is actually an awesome food for d/d eles (~10sec of might on dodge)

That is a good food but I think it’s overkill if your going to run either strength or hoelbrak. The wiki says its 5 seconds of might. I havent used that food in a long time so I don’t remember. Hoelbrak setup isn’t for condition clearing it’s for the conditions you can’t clear because of cooldowns or the ones you didn’t dodge.

oZii.2864:

Carpboy.7145:

The thing is a 0/10/0/30/30 already has tons of condi clear, and if you take ether renewal your almost immune to them. I think orrian truffle & meat stew is actually an awesome food for d/d eles (~10sec of might on dodge)

That is a good food but I think it’s overkill if your going to run either strength or hoelbrak. The wiki says its 5 seconds of might. I havent used that food in a long time so I don’t remember. Hoelbrak setup isn’t for condition clearing it’s for the conditions you can’t clear because of cooldowns or the ones you didn’t dodge.

It is 5 sec base, but with the might and boon duration you can get its ~10 sec (like 8.5 i think) probably is a bit overkill though