Guild Wars 2

Power/celestial elementalist is the only class that can deal with power and condi opponents without major problem if they play correctly, is that justified? I think it’s very unfair to other classes. They can run 1 build to rule them all while other classes have at best 1 build that covers 60% of matchup.

I think it’s time for ele to have some counter builds for that.

you are in the wrong place to complain about ele’s. I tell you what. Look at any other class with condi removal in their builds and you have something that is hard to counter.

FrownyClown.8402:

you are in the wrong place to complain about ele’s. I tell you what. Look at any other class with condi removal in their builds and you have something that is hard to counter.

What I’m saying there is counter to ele, but not wide enough and ele can with one simple build rule over 95% matchups and come out with almost full health. If you can kill ele in d/d build, that doesn’t mean its a counter.

Have you fought Mesmers lately OP?

Lol

Every 1v1 build is essentially takes the same considerations some do it better than others.

Go hop on a power cele DD ele and fine a competent signet boon corruption Necro and get back to me.

A DD ele has always and still does need boons for damage and defense. Signet Nero’s are now even stronger vs boon spammers like ele, engi, and guardian. Especially since they fixed the bug so that stab turns into fear.

Celestial only makes sense on certain builds classes and guard/ele/ and Nero make good use of celestial. Wolfineers celestial rifle build is popular for a reason.

lots of condis when we get out of water and lots of burst when we get out of water. There you go the secret.

Try necro with well + corrupt boon. That hurts ele’s and many other classes very much. People do not worry about one or two condition on them that much, because of their old habit. And they certainly do not think about corrupt boon or well when they cast stability on themselves.

Zera.8907:

Have you fought Mesmers lately OP?

Mesmers will get a big nerf in short amount of time. But this is not a mesmer conversation currently, and on long fight, ele wins.

Firelysm.4967:

Power/celestial elementalist is the only class that can deal with power and condi opponents without major problem if they play correctly, is that justified? I think it’s very unfair to other classes. They can run 1 build to rule them all while other classes have at best 1 build that covers 60% of matchup.

I think it’s time for ele to have some counter builds for that.

The other low hit point classes (Guardian/Thief) can also deal with power and condi in a single build. The Ele is a bit better at it, but then again we also have low armor. Basically, the ele is exactly where I think it should be for being the low hp/low armor class of the game.

Zera.8907:

Have you fought Mesmers lately OP?

Has any top tier tournament teams taken 2 x Mesmers? Stop trying to downplay Ele is the king of sPvP class right now.

DD ele and Mesmer (some builds) are op. Anyone who claims otherwise can go spvp or wvw with “another” class/char, and see the truth. My main is ele, but it is riddiculously powerful, like mesmer.

Talk to any top tier ele player and they will say ele is pretty balanced. We can’t end fights in seconds like a mesmer or thief. We are hard countered by signet necro and just about any amount of condi overload. They are almost like pre-patch cele, but less defense and more offense. I think its funny seeing people walk on my fire field 3 times for 9 stacks of burn.

alain.1659:

DD ele and Mesmer (some builds) are op. Anyone who claims otherwise can go spvp or wvw with “another” class/char, and see the truth. My main is ele, but it is riddiculously powerful, like mesmer.

You’re not powerful on ele…..you’re just tiring to kill, but that’s fine because I won’t die to you on ranger, necro and warrior…high chance you’ll die instead if you don’t decide to run away.

Have you ever faced opponents that can dodge your attempt at burning speed while sleeping?Opponents that don’t take a stroll on ring of fire? Opponents that send you back that nice burning stack while you’re in water? Perma poison builds? Confusion stacks on low CD?

About mesmer..if i can hold my own on ranger and against the likes Helseth and Frostball ( met in ranked/unranked )..I’m pretty confident I can hold you down

Against scrubs..everything is OP..even my trap build

You allmighty spvp player might battle against the armies of hell alone, but in every game there must be balance. Sure if a player is more skilled than the other, things are different. But on the same skill lvl or without a huge difference, some professions are op. I have met many builds dear friend and believe me, it was not fair. This topic is about balance, and as an ele player I am saying that my class is not balanced. But again, like in every topic, a chosen one comes and claims that his skill is vast. This is not about personal skill. Sure you can beat me, I can beat x.

Against double dots that should be triple, you can claim anything. But calling people who try to balance the professions for the others to enjoy scrubs, you really shown your personality. It is extremely sad for us to lose the chance to have a civilized conversation.

Just wait until they nerf burn damage. This conversation is still on topic and we aren’t calling you out for being bad. Just because we disagree with you doesn’t mean this is a bad conversation. If you want to talk about bad personality you should fix yours too.

I was talking to the guy who called everyone who wants a balance scrub(s), and claimed he was far more skilled than most ( which he can be, and maybe he is, but it is not relevant). They should balance something at least, to make more classes and builds viable. Nerfing burn to the ground may not be the right choice by the way. That will erase any hopes for a condi build with ele. But again I do not know what the real solution can be.

Oh and there is a fine distinction between insulting and sarcasm. But I tend to get known with my anger so maybe you are right.

I think a 25% decrease in how burn scales with condi damage might be a start. The problem I see isn’t really burn stacks individually for ele. Its when they get paired up with another high burn build like guardian and you throw in 20 stacks of might. That is when burn hits for like 2k or more a second. They could also decrease the burn stacks applied in general. Ring of Fire could apply 2 stacks for a longer duration instead of 3. That alone would probably put ele in a fairer state, but at the same time it ruins our ability to really hurt players who chase us if we lay it on like stairs or something. The burn stacks really added a defensive mechanic to our fire fields that I like and I don’t want to lose. I’d rather just take a flat burn damage nerf.

You might be right. Even now an experienced player can easily avoid fire fields. Another nerf might destroy it completely. Well the clever solution would be nerfing the survivability of the ele instead of damage. But against some builds it will completely cripple us. Easiest thing would be to change condition priorities maybe?

Anet would of done that by now if they thought it was a solution. Cleansing damage conditions first would destroy damage from condi builds that use other conditions to prevent you from cleansing the damage. Ele would be really op then. Personally I feel a more viable solution would be to lower the damage of conditions across the board, decrease the duration it is applied, but increase the amount of stacks each skill provides. Condis would perform more like spike damage, but not as viable as power builds. They have more defense to make up for this.

alain.1659:

You allmighty spvp player might battle against the armies of hell alone, but in every game there must be balance. Sure if a player is more skilled than the other, things are different. But on the same skill lvl or without a huge difference, some professions are op. I have met many builds dear friend and believe me, it was not fair. This topic is about balance, and as an ele player I am saying that my class is not balanced. But again, like in every topic, a chosen one comes and claims that his skill is vast. This is not about personal skill. Sure you can beat me, I can beat x.

Against double dots that should be triple, you can claim anything. But calling people who try to balance the professions for the others to enjoy scrubs, you really shown your personality. It is extremely sad for us to lose the chance to have a civilized conversation.

But you only play celestial amulet and outheal damage, correct me if I’m making a wrong assumption! Balance is not something you can watch in a vacuum and it’s only natural for me to get kittened at people who come here with they consider “fair balance suggestions” and all their self-righteousness.

You must take in consideration the balance ratio of everything, the original aim of a trait/build and how it is possible to change it into a more so called balanced version for the mass

People spec into fire line for the added damage and assume a more DPS role, the line present a “passive” component and we all know that.

What you can’t do now is to simply nerf burning without giving anything as compensation, here is an example of sensible balance:

-Ring of fire gives too many stacks of burn?
Then decrease the number to 1 stack..but increase the direct damage component; because we want to keep that level of mele pressure the d/d spec possess

-Too much might gained passively?
Then decrease it drastically… but add a GM which promotes active play and allow strong might stacking builds

-Too much access to protection?
Then decrease it…..but reduce the CD of defensive utilities like arcane shield : bring the CD down to 40s and increase the access to weakness( lightning touch cone radius increased from 30 degree to 270 degree…or even better make it 600 radius PBaoe with 15s CD)

-Too much sustain on celestial?
Then decrease stats on cele amulet or change the way healing power stack, less than 600 you get less healing respect to now

still think you have too much sustain?
-Try playing a non bunker amulet on ele d/d and against decent opponents, because you know what? I can play a bunker amulet on all professions and be near unkillable on them too.

I can play a cleric shout ranger..and you won’t kill me
I can play soldier MM necro…and you won’t kill me
I can play cele mantra mesmer..and you won’t kill me either

So shall we nerf all these 3 classes because they’re hard to kill with a bunker amulet?

Do me a favour and play a marauder ele d/d and compete at MMR levels where you meet esl players on a regular basis, or even join one of the weekly tournaments like PugQuest or AG.

Yeah to you I appear as an arrogant kitten …but to me you appear as no very knowledgeable , anybody can win against low profile players by using a bunker amulet.

Sure the are few adjustments to make on ele..but nothing that can be deemed broken OP as many claim on this forum

And for the last time, there are people who have been playing ele for years, since beta weekend 1 in 2012, who have been playing ele even when nobody wanted ( in 2013 after the april 2013 huge nerf hit) so you will excuse me if I get a “little agitated”

Again I advise you to read my posts after that. To me you did not only strike as arrogant, but also as many more things, which was due to my sudden anger again. But again as I told, If a person can open a profession, enter pvp without too much experience, and bother others too much, there should be something with that class. And my balance opinion was not nerfing burn but changing something else, which seems like sustain. Other classes, yes there are many that can counter dd ele, should also be taken under consideration. You can play bunker in many options but “YOU” can not be killed. Not everybody else, not every noob can do it. With celestial dd ele, everybody can do it. That is the problematic part for me. Experience + technique can result in many good things, I have no opposition to that. But if you take out the experience and only memorize the technique, you should not be gettin a very good result.

I understand you point, and you are right on several of them, but the adjustments should not be done regarding the highest tier spvp players. There are many more who run these builds on medium tier spvp or wvw and these are the areas that people tend to experience problems. Highest tier will find its way no matter what.

I am not playing dd celestial ele by the way ( Played for some time, never quite loved it). I have been playing scepter focus for quite some time, and really love it.

I swear our forum is strange. DD Ele is not a class on its own. When you make a Ele the game doesn’t say make a DD Ele. You play DD ele because you like what it offers or staff because you like what it offers.

I can’t believe people want our sustain nerfed they did that before in 2013 with the RTL changes, the first Thief S/D changes. It was horrible and took them a while to correct it.

Cleansing water had a icd on it, signet of restoration had less healing, and I think it was dagger 5 in water gave less healing.

Get out with this Nerf elementalists healing stuff.

Yes the celestial amulet wasn’t as good but that’s the amulets fault and that isn’t a Elementalist specific problem.

Let them nerf the sustain and S/D instagib trying to imitate thief specs will be the only way to even try to play just like it was in 2013.

“Omg We have no sustain! I have to play a gimmick S/D build if the burst fails I die”

We have been there before if you played long enough.

History lesson for the “New elementalists”

The 4/30/2013 Patch or the infamous RTL Nerf patch.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-30-2013/first#post1943026

Elementalist

•Comet skill: Blast finisher now occurs at the comet’s location rather than at the elementalist’s location.
•Conjure Flame Axe skill: Updated the Flame Leap skill fact to display the proper burning duration.
•Rock Blade skill: Projectiles now correctly hit targets up to the intended 1200 range.
•Mist Form skill: Activation now locks heal, utility, and elite skills.
•Ride the Lightning skill: •Increased recharge increased 20 seconds to 40 seconds.
•Recharge is now halved if the player strikes a foe.
•Reduced the range to 1200 from the previous (hidden) 1550.

•Signet of Earth skill: Passive stat bonus increased by 100%.
•Signet of Fire skill: Passive stat bonus increased by 100%.
•Glyph of Elemental Power skill: Added a skill fact to indicate the percent chance.
•Signet of Restoration skill: Reduced the passive healing by 18% in PvP.
•Cleansing Water trait: Can now trigger only once every 5 seconds (only in PvP).
•Glyph of Storms skill: Increased duration of Lightning Storm by 50%, Ice Storm by 50%, Firestorm by 25%, and Sandstorm by 11%.
•Glyph of Lesser Elementals skill: Increased the health of summoned elementals by 33%.
•Glyph of Elementals skill: Increased the health of the summoned elementals by 33%.
•Conjure Fiery Greatsword skill: The Fiery Rush skill no longer consumes a warrior’s adrenaline pool.
•Swirling Winds skill: No longer destroys unblockable missiles.

Then go read any threads that happened after that from this forum and sPvP forums. It’s all about how bad the Elementalist is now.

I feel like that patch was greatly influenced by “top” sPvP players across the board and it was a horrible patch for elementalists anyway and Warrior was still horrible until it got it’s healing signet.

We have come a long way with balance in this game full circle. I think the Guardian is the only class that has ever been always considered balanced or not nerfed so bad that nobody wants it on a team.

alain.1659:

Again I advise you to read my posts after that. To me you did not only strike as arrogant, but also as many more things, which was due to my sudden anger again. But again as I told, If a person can open a profession, enter pvp without too much experience, and bother others too much, there should be something with that class. And my balance opinion was not nerfing burn but changing something else, which seems like sustain. Other classes, yes there are many that can counter dd ele, should also be taken under consideration. You can play bunker in many options but “YOU” can not be killed. Not everybody else, not every noob can do it. With celestial dd ele, everybody can do it. That is the problematic part for me. Experience + technique can result in many good things, I have no opposition to that. But if you take out the experience and only memorize the technique, you should not be gettin a very good result.

I understand you point, and you are right on several of them, but the adjustments should not be done regarding the highest tier spvp players. There are many more who run these builds on medium tier spvp or wvw and these are the areas that people tend to experience problems. Highest tier will find its way no matter what.

I am not playing dd celestial ele by the way ( Played for some time, never quite loved it). I have been playing scepter focus for quite some time, and really love it.

I get your point..and your point has been well known to the devs for years; vet eles have been suggesting to increase active defense and decrease passive defenses….we have been suggesting that for years but the devs answer (official dev answer by Jon peter himself) has always been the same :

We know you’d all want us to increased ele base HP, but we want to maintain profession identity, this way we can give eles, some really powerful abilities

Not the exact words but yeah….the increase of base HP and removal of some defense was simply one of the many suggestions…but all got ignored.

If you want to make ele that much harder to play then you decrease passive defense and increase active defenses, you can’t simply nerf sustain and then expect people to enjoy the class.

If you simply nerf the sustain of the ele, then players would suffer at every level and you take a look at the past to see the devs attempting to nerf ele sustain without compensation :“not even at the TOP, you could see a single ele”, if you don’t believe me go and watch few tournie games post April 2013 patch….not a single ele