Guild Wars 2

Ok so. I have an ele. I have a cheesy condi shatter Mesmer. I have a ranger and a thief and a necro. I pvp and wvw with all of them.

I have never once had an issue with D/D ele. They’re tough to kill but I’ve also gone up against warriors and guardians who I can’t even dent at all that can flatten me in seconds.

Yes icebow needed a little nerf.

Yeah burning will help with how punishing it previously was.

However, people keep crying over how OP they are….maybe you should learn how they play. They’re predictable. And perhaps a play style more complex than “I’m going zerk and rushing in and bursting their face”.

Rushing a class like that is like when a thief is unprepared for a Mesmer to survive their burst and suddenly gets shattered into dust.

Yes the nerf changes were necessary, but no it isn’t overpowered still, you all need to calm down and learn to play more than just pushing a button and mindlessly running around.

(Or maybe look at immortal warriors and even some ranger builds if you want to see overpowered).

[keep in mind if they nerfed Fire more you’ll just see more and more super-tank eles that never die ]

Ever tried playing a non cele ar/water/x build vs an ele that is? They do just about the same damage as a bursty ele while having far more sustain, to the point where missing key skillshots didn’t matter because they’ll just wait for the next rotation. This is even more frustrating for me because I know EXACTLY how they work. However, while I have to combo my skills near-perfectly as a S/F ele if I wanted to win, the cele d/d ele is just spamming skills and yet still snags the duel simply because of the build.

The burning fire nerf was overly harsh (mainly because it also hit non-cele builds), but it was in the right direction, while the dagger burning application nerfs were justified.

Wait for the full patch notes.

I tend to play a semi-cele ele with earth/water/arcane most of the time.

I still don’t have issues with them but all of my characters are played extremely tanky.

Maybe I’m also just going up against really badly played individuals

I think the nerfs were justified. It’s just that I see many other overpowered things that are never complained about.

Hopefully this helps balance a little but people can’t complain about celestial being super sustained, as that’s it’s purpose….on any class that utilizes it well, even engineer.

vanderwolf.7084:

I tend to play a semi-cele ele with earth/water/arcane most of the time.

I still don’t have issues with them but all of my characters are played extremely tanky.

Maybe I’m also just going up against really badly played individuals

That’s really just a tanky variant of the ar/water ele build, you’re not doing anything different. Notice how I said ar/water/x in my previous post. And if you’re talking about semi-cele as in WvW/PvE gear, well that’s an entirely different discussion than SPVP where stats are far less customized.

I’m talking about people who might want to try condi builds, or F/A, or lightning rod. Eles who are wanting to trade survivalbility for damage and yet end up average in both. The meta ele had too good of everything, assuming equal skill in a duel, the meta build will win at least 8/10 times.

vanderwolf.7084:

I think the nerfs were justified. It’s just that I see many other overpowered things that are never complained about.

Hopefully this helps balance a little but people can’t complain about celestial being super sustained, as that’s it’s purpose….on any class that utilizes it well, even engineer.

The problem was that ele could bypass the drawback of lacking damage when using cele with using might on cantrips. Now that the might is being stripped from the cantrips they have a loss of 12 might from the build. IT wont hit nearly as hard or condition nearly as hard and will be brought into line with how cele works on other professions IE engi/necro/ranger etc. It will be good just not godly.

Ohhhh see I never used tons of can trips to stack might I only popped them as oh kitten buttons. I didn’t notice the might change

Indeed, condi/shatter mesmers and engis are way more broken than d/d ele ever was.

The burning nerfs do seem a bit over done but things like cantrips giving might was kind of coming due to the spec line changes. Each line only covers one utility type. Now only if they make fire line have something worth it for conja weapons and auras.

(I am hopping that they add a Juggernaut like effect for conja weapons on the fire line and aura effects more then just fire aura and a an passive earth aura on earth line.)

ZDragon.3046:

vanderwolf.7084:

I think the nerfs were justified. It’s just that I see many other overpowered things that are never complained about.

Hopefully this helps balance a little but people can’t complain about celestial being super sustained, as that’s it’s purpose….on any class that utilizes it well, even engineer.

The problem was that ele could bypass the drawback of lacking damage when using cele with using might on cantrips. Now that the might is being stripped from the cantrips they have a loss of 12 might from the build. IT wont hit nearly as hard or condition nearly as hard and will be brought into line with how cele works on other professions IE engi/necro/ranger etc. It will be good just not godly.

Thing is I would still question the validity of balancing solely around PvP. A gamemode that not a lot of ppl bother with and is highly likely to be overshadowed by PvE and WvW in this MMO. Cele dagger dagger ele wasn’t a problem in PvE or WvW. Only in PvP so instead of finding a way to hit only PvP they hit all gamemodes.

Senario.2038:

Thing is I would still question the validity of balancing solely around PvP. A gamemode that not a lot of ppl bother with and is highly likely to be overshadowed by PvE and WvW in this MMO. Cele dagger dagger ele wasn’t a problem in PvE or WvW. Only in PvP so instead of finding a way to hit only PvP they hit all gamemodes.

That’s just a reality of playing any multiplayer RPG that has both PvP and PvE AND allows for a large realm of freedom for players to create builds.

The mechanics between the two are so different that balance inevitably becomes a tug of war and it’s really not the developers fault. Every multiplayer RPG that I have played with this kind of setup suffers from the same issue.

If players are going to rage when this happens, I strongly recommend they go play World of Warcraft and I don’t mean that as an insult. They had the same issue and finally got tired of investing so much time and money into game balancing due to people min/maxing the build choices that they pigeonholed people into one of three pre-created builds and restricted player choice down to like 6 talent choices and 3 gylph choices. And EVEN THEN, it didn’t solve the problem completely, leading them to introduce two separate talent lines, one for PvP and one for PvE, in the upcoming expansion.

However, when they did all that, it made the game boring for me, because I like choice in my character builds, leading me to come to Guild Wars 2. But with that, I accept the fact that a build I create and like isn’t going to be viable in both PvP and PvE and might get wrecked in the next game update; it’s just the reality of a game like this.

Kind of like how I also like CCGs like Hearthstone and as a result, I accept losing games to top decking. Like, if you are going to get salty over top decking, why play a CCG? The randomness is a core element of the game and what makes it exciting and fun.

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

Thing is I would still question the validity of balancing solely around PvP. A gamemode that not a lot of ppl bother with and is highly likely to be overshadowed by PvE and WvW in this MMO. Cele dagger dagger ele wasn’t a problem in PvE or WvW. Only in PvP so instead of finding a way to hit only PvP they hit all gamemodes.

That’s just a reality of playing any multiplayer RPG that has both PvP and PvE AND allows for a large realm of freedom for players to create builds.

The mechanics between the two are so different that balance inevitably becomes a tug of war and it’s really not the developers fault. Every multiplayer RPG that I have played with this kind of setup suffers from the same issue.

If players are going to rage when this happens, I strongly recommend they go play World of Warcraft and I don’t mean that as an insult. They had the same issue and finally got tired of investing so much time and money into game balancing due to people min/maxing the build choices that they pigeonholed people into one of three pre-created builds and restricted player choice down to like 6 talent choices and 3 gylph choices. And EVEN THEN, it didn’t solve the problem completely, leading them to introduce two separate talent lines, one for PvP and one for PvE, in the upcoming expansion.

However, when they did all that, it made the game boring for me, because I like choice in my character builds, leading me to come to Guild Wars 2. But with that, I except the fact that a build I create and like isn’t going to be viable in both PvP and PvE and might get wrecked in the next game update; it’s just the reality of a game like this.

Kind of like how I also like CCGs like Hearthstone and as a result, I accept losing games to top decking. Like, if you are going to get salty over top decking, why play a CCG? The randomness is a core element of the game and what makes it exciting and fun.

Thing is it isn’t PvP and PvE solely. You also have World v World in this game. Balancing around arguably a smaller group that has very little esports viability due to the nature of the game is very nonsensical.

I don’t play dagger dagger ele because it is the best thing ever, I play it because I find staff and scepter boring. I don’t even bother with PvP as I find the World v World gamemode just straight up more fun than a generic 5v5 computer game that isn’t even in a genre that is good for esports. World v World is the content I felt was most unique of the MMOs I have played so I enjoy it a lot.

Balancing around PvP when there are two other gamemodes makes no sense to me as some things aren’t even a problem in the other two gamemodes. One of which is fairly competitive.

Xillllix.3485:

Indeed, condi/shatter mesmers and engis are way more broken than d/d ele ever was.

It sounds nice living in whatever fantasy world you inhabit.

I mean condi Mesmer and condi engi were on like every top team in the past year, am I right? It’s so overpowered that all 4 torment stacks a Mesmer puts out in a teamfight get instantly cleansed by an ele rotation or guardian/warrior shout!

Senario.2038:

Thing is it isn’t PvP and PvE solely. You also have World v World in this game. Balancing around arguably a smaller group that has very little esports viability due to the nature of the game is very nonsensical.

I don’t play dagger dagger ele because it is the best thing ever, I play it because I find staff and scepter boring. I don’t even bother with PvP as I find the World v World gamemode just straight up more fun than a generic 5v5 computer game that isn’t even in a genre that is good for esports. World v World is the content I felt was most unique of the MMOs I have played so I enjoy it a lot.

Balancing around PvP when there are two other gamemodes makes no sense to me as some things aren’t even a problem in the other two gamemodes. One of which is fairly competitive.

Same issue. Same tug of war.

It’s totally sensical for them to balance around PvP. WvW has zero esports presence at all where as PvP has professional tournaments which amounts to $$$ in advertising and marketing. I actually watch and enjoy them; you learn a lot about the mechanics of the game.

I don’t know of any statistical data that shows which game element is more popular, but given how much balancing does occur around PvP and how many posts I see with concerns about PvP balancing, I would put money on PvP being the most popular.

And the cries from the flavor of the month Ele players could be heard across the land.

If you had problems against a guard or warrior as a d/d ele it was certainly a l2p issue. DD ele hard countered GS/Ham warrior so easy.

that’s actually wrong. gs/ham warriors have one of the best chances to beat fire eles out of all the berserker builds.

Jekkt.6045:

that’s actually wrong. gs/ham warriors have one of the best chances to beat fire eles out of all the berserker builds.

Show me any videos where a GS/hamm war beat an equally skilled DD ele please because if that was the case you would see a lot more of them in tournaments “countering” all those 4 Ele teams.

watch wts3 where rom beats phantaram.

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

Thing is it isn’t PvP and PvE solely. You also have World v World in this game. Balancing around arguably a smaller group that has very little esports viability due to the nature of the game is very nonsensical.

I don’t play dagger dagger ele because it is the best thing ever, I play it because I find staff and scepter boring. I don’t even bother with PvP as I find the World v World gamemode just straight up more fun than a generic 5v5 computer game that isn’t even in a genre that is good for esports. World v World is the content I felt was most unique of the MMOs I have played so I enjoy it a lot.

Balancing around PvP when there are two other gamemodes makes no sense to me as some things aren’t even a problem in the other two gamemodes. One of which is fairly competitive.

Same issue. Same tug of war.

It’s totally sensical for them to balance around PvP. WvW has zero esports presence at all where as PvP has professional tournaments which amounts to $$$ in advertising and marketing. I actually watch and enjoy them; you learn a lot about the mechanics of the game.

I don’t know of any statistical data that shows which game element is more popular, but given how much balancing does occur around PvP and how many posts I see with concerns about PvP balancing, I would put money on PvP being the most popular.

Except it isn’t structured well to be an esports game. There are 3 game modes and the game isn’t solely based around one mode. That said for “proof” of how popular PvP is compared to the other game modes look no further than GW2’s own official youtube page as well as their stream numbers for purely competitive PvP. The views on youtube are 1/3rd or less of what they are for nearly every other piece of content. The only exception is the pro player explanation videos which are more than likely not as accurate a representation compared to the actual games.

The twitch views average 6k or so I’ve heard which is a very very small amount in the grand scheme of things. And this year’s tournament prize pool is laughable for most to even consider playing competitively. First place gets 25k for a 5 man team. That is 5k for something that doesn’t happen all that often. Fourth Place gets only 500 per person, not even enough to cover hotel/travel costs per person.

Esports and revenue through advertising is a legitimate benefit, however you need the support of your entire playerbase first. And currently it is clear that WvW and PvE players don’t care at all about PvP’s esports scene. The viewership is taking one game community and splitting it simply because this is an MMO not an arcade type structure that works well for an esport.

PvP is clearly not the most popular otherwise it would pull at least more than half the views of a general video for everybody in the community (same with viewership on twitch).

Jekkt.6045:

watch wts3 where rom beats phantaram.

Doesnt ROM play shoutbow? Sorry i didnt watch that match but i normally see him on shoutbow even after the patch.

he played gs/ham during wts, only now after the tournament he is playing shoutbow again.

Cele ele issue is the sustain.
This is why Anet nerfed the damage.

i think they should maybe have waited for HoT before swinging the nerf bat…. i wonder how ele will perform against really strong elite specs like chronomancer and herald (revenant at all seems a bit over the top) and no1 really knows how strong scrapper and druid gonna be in pvp. guards are fine now and will be in future necro is fine too atm and reaper is a solid elite spec, warr and thief ….meh berserker maybe but daredevil just wont help thief out of their resbot/+1/decap role

Raithwall.8201:

i think they should maybe have waited for HoT before swinging the nerf bat….

Agreed. Considering mesmers will be able to moa you twice for a total of 20 seconds and by the time it’s over you’ll be dead anyway I don’t see the point of nerfing the elementalist fire line.

The lack of complaints regarding Mesmer is very discouraging to me. Everyone is so focused on ele for some odd reason. Ele sustain is too high but the core problem is the burn change, cele amulet stats and blinding ashes ICD.

This meta is absolutely disgusting and borderline unplayable. Every fight is a “who can clear more burns” fight or who gets “x” passive proc.

Fix the game then curve the classes, idiots

Xillllix.3485:

Indeed, condi/shatter mesmers and engis are way more broken than d/d ele ever was.

You can say that, but the people with the metrics don’t seem to agree.

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

The lack of complaints regarding Mesmer is very discouraging to me. Everyone is so focused on ele for some odd reason.

Because PU getting cut in half just spontaneously happened without any special urging by EVERYONE EVER.

Ok and a condi mesmers access to confusion is B A L A N C E

Along with 100-0 from stealth burst potential on a lot of classes, and triple zero cast time dazes that also stun…Should I really make a kittenin list??

This might come as a shock but they do tend to nerf things that are winning a disproportionate amount. Decap engineer comes to mind. Condi mesmers might be annoying as all &#)@! to fight, but they’re not tipping the balance overall or there would be the nerf-bat of Damocles hanging over their head too.

But really, lets see what all tomorrow brings…

Nike.2631:

This might come as a shock but they do tend to nerf things that are winning a disproportionate amount. Decap engineer comes to mind. Condi mesmers might be annoying as all &#)@! to fight, but they’re not tipping the balance overall or there would be the nerf-bat of Damocles hanging over their head too.

But really, lets see what all tomorrow brings…

This might come as a shock but the game isn’t only PvP. There is PvE and World v World as well. How many eles actually use dagger dagger in PvE and World v World in any optimal setting? They are not balancing for the game, they are balancing for PvP which leaves a lot of their playerbase high and dry.

They’ve decided to balance around enemies that have an IQ rather than a script. This is not news. WvW is balanced around sheer numbers and pretty much absorbs any changes because if I have 75% more people, I win, regardless. The majority of PvE is balanced around rolling your face on the keyboard and collecting loot .

Nike.2631:

They’ve decided to balance around enemies that have an IQ rather than a script. This is not news. WvW is balanced around sheer numbers and pretty much absorbs any changes because if I have 75% more people, I win, regardless. The majority of PvE is balanced around rolling your face on the keyboard and collecting loot .

Untrue, Larger groups that have bad drivers will have general problems in addition to having bad players. There is also this thing called flanking. It is pretty effective. There is a lot of strategy in using the terrain and pure numbers don’t always win. I remember one time our guild fought a zerg about 2x our size and we downed them so much people’s bags were overflowing resulting in us gaining quite a lot of benefit. Because their waypoint was just out of reach we couldn’t contest it and prevent them from respawning but we killed them at least 2-3 times before they finally broke through. And at that point we just didn’t care anymore because we were drowning in bags and 1 down for us 2-3 for them.

As I said…playing the terrain is highly effective, High ground is a slight advantage and so is controlling a choke point where an enemy zerg has to push through. It is by far a better showing of balance imo than small 5v5 fights. Dagger Dagger was popular because that is what it specializes in for WvW as well, in larger fights however it is only moderately useful taking a huge backseat to staff ele.

The current matchups put servers into matchups that should be as close to even as possible. If pure size won all the time then Dragonbrand would not be winning their current matchup as there are several huge guilds on the other servers, much respect to them for being able to manage a guild that big. And I believe it was either Northern Shiverpeaks or Henge of denravi? recently got a third huge guild to add onto their two big guilds. I think one of the names of the big guilds was Os, not sure what it is short for.

PvE is getting rebalanced in HoT, hold your criticism. I don’t agree with pure zerker though I think you should be able to itemize more for damage than any competitive gamemode as nobody dislikes doing damage. Ideally some tankiness to survive well enough and some damage, leaning on the damage side because let’s be honest it is PvE. For example in just the armor 2-3 pieces of a tanky gear (soldier’s) and the rest being damage, adjustable for more tankiness if necessary.

Edit: By the way, WvW guilds have IQ too