Guild Wars 2

I run a 0/0/10/30/30 Staff build with mostly PVT gear/Divinity runes and a few +healing power accessories.

PvE, sPvP, WvW… I can outlast pretty much anyone/anything 1v1 as well as bringing amazing utility to a group. I’ve dueled D/D Eles and win 8/10 fights.

I fail to see where the benefit is in D/D over staff… it might just be a min/max numbers thing, but on the actual field I never see it play out that way. Ride the Lightning is pretty boss, but as far as I can tell it’s pretty much the only advantage over staff… but being that I can catch runners with static field, etc… I’m not even sure it’s a benefit other than making an awesome reference to Metallica.

Any other Staff Eles out there? What are your experiences in relation to the D/D bandwagon? Does it really just come down to winning slightly quicker than a staff Ele? Why would a group EVER choose a D/D Ele over a Staff Ele in PvP OR PvE? I’m just blown away by the massive posts about D/D Ele and seemingly non-existent post regarding Staff Eles.

Discuss!

Michael.3279:

I run a 0/0/10/30/30 Staff build with mostly PVT gear/Divinity runes and a few +healing power accessories.

PvE, sPvP, WvW… I can outlast pretty much anyone/anything 1v1 as well as bringing amazing utility to a group. I’ve dueled D/D Eles and win 8/10 fights.

I fail to see where the benefit is in D/D over staff… it might just be a min/max numbers thing, but on the actual field I never see it play out that way. Ride the Lightning is pretty boss, but as far as I can tell it’s pretty much the only advantage over staff… but being that I can catch runners with static field, etc… I’m not even sure it’s a benefit other than making an awesome reference to Metallica.

Any other Staff Eles out there? What are your experiences in relation to the D/D bandwagon? Does it really just come down to winning slightly quicker than a staff Ele? Why would a group EVER choose a D/D Ele over a Staff Ele in PvP OR PvE? I’m just blown away by the massive posts about D/D Ele and seemingly non-existent post regarding Staff Eles.

Discuss!

Then 5-15 enemies show up and kitten you in the face…

The D/D wave bye to them as he/she RTL out

D/D is about mobility. Everything else is 2nd.

Edit: I read your post – this time in its entirety. Staff ele are awesome. No one is saying it sucks. Just different playstyle.

So it really is all about RTL then? Pages and pages of threads devoted to a build that helps you run away from a group?

If a group gets the jump on me, sure… otherwise, Teleport and perma-swiftness get me out 9 out of 10 times.

Michael.3279:

So it really is all about RTL then? Pages and pages of threads devoted to a build that helps you run away from a group?

If a group gets the jump on me, sure… otherwise, Teleport and perma-swiftness get me out 9 out of 10 times.

W/o RTL, D/D is trash. There I said it.

Sifu.6527:

Michael.3279:

So it really is all about RTL then? Pages and pages of threads devoted to a build that helps you run away from a group?

If a group gets the jump on me, sure… otherwise, Teleport and perma-swiftness get me out 9 out of 10 times.

W/o RTL, D/D is trash. There I said it.

I applaud your honesty sir.

Also curious as to why so many D/D builds include Evasive Arcana when it was so obviously designed for use with a staff…

Michael.3279:

Also curious as to why so many D/D builds include Evasive Arcana when it was so obviously designed for use with a staff…

Might stacking from fire combo or extra heal and condition removal from water.

I personally do not use it. I’m 0/10/20/20/20. I havent played in a while so things may changed that I am not aware of.

Michael.3279:

So it really is all about RTL then? Pages and pages of threads devoted to a build that helps you run away from a group?

If a group gets the jump on me, sure… otherwise, Teleport and perma-swiftness get me out 9 out of 10 times.

For non-bunker D/D builds, yes. For bunker D/D builds, HELL yes. Either way, a lot is built around mobility with(depending on the player)group support being a secondary build style. There has been a shift recently towards a more dmg D/D spec, but IMO it fails compared to more dmg oriented Ele builds(see staff).

As for OP: yes, I agree that staff is kittening great. I predict we’ll be seeing an influx of staff players/builds in the coming weeks after this nerf. D/D will still be around, although I think only in a purely support build.

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4→5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

Sifu.6527:

Michael.3279:

Also curious as to why so many D/D builds include Evasive Arcana when it was so obviously designed for use with a staff…

Might stacking from fire combo or extra heal and condition removal from water.

I personally do not use it. I’m 0/10/20/20/20. I havent played in a while so things may changed that I am not aware of.

Makes sense, I guess there’s nothing much more worthwhile. I would only argue that in addition to being able to also do both of those things with staff (and in the case of healing/regen… better), I have the added benefit of being able to do those things for a group as well as myself.

Personally I love that everyone runs D/D… makes me feel a little more special. What I DISLIKE is the perception by many that I am running an inferior build, and who can blame them? Just look at the forums here… D/D this, D/D that… You would think it’s our only weapon set.

I use Staff in PvP and always have.

However, I don’t see how you “win” a fight against any sort of competent D/D user. There’s no way you should be able to kill them if they have half a brain with your spec. You just don’t possibly do enough damage.

Force.5861:

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4->5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

No, and your build is the reason why. Staff can drop CRAZY numbers, especially when you synergize with firery greatsword. You are running a support staff build, which obviously will do less numbers than any kind of D/D setup. Try a serker setup with glyphs/arcane utilities and the synergy/dmg you will get from it is quite crazy.

Force.5861:

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4->5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

Vigor/Fury benefit is a legitimate reason, I’ll concede to that.

Staff is a bit slower farming PvE too admittedly, but I’d like to think I make up for the lost individual kill time by pulling/kiting 5-6 mobs at a time and burning them down.

Ive been only Staff for over 1000 played hours to date. I have
not played it in sPvP, only WvW.

Two things worth mentioning:

1) You can have great escape as staff. Use Fiery Greatsword as your
elite, and when things dont look good, I drop Mist Form and than
cast Fiery Greatsword (dont think many know this, but this protects
me while channeling the cast for Fiery Greatsword). As soon as Im out,
I use 3 and 4 on sword, along with Lighting Flash to outdistance anyone.
If this might not be enough, I hit my map key and TP to a waypoint as
soon as Im out of combat.

2) Staff has an amazing nuke, even if you are not fully glass cannon. I run
full berserker gear and trait 0-20-0-30-20. Use Signet of Earth to root
target, cast Lava Font than immediately Arcane Blast for a blast finisher,
than Flame Burst followed by either fire auto attacks or switching to air
for Lightning Surge and auto. I can bypasss the Signet of Earth if needed,
since thats mainly best against runners. When defending I can get the AB
blast finisher off fast enough because the second Lava Font drops Im using it.

The main power though of Staff is zerg vs zerg of course, I avoid 1v1 fighting in
the open world.

Ryld.1340:

I use Staff in PvP and always have.

However, I don’t see how you “win” a fight against any sort of competent D/D user. There’s no way you should be able to kill them if they have half a brain with your spec. You just don’t possibly do enough damage.

Elite elementals air summon keeps the stuns up along with static field giving me decent CC which seems to be enough me me to outlast them and whittle them down. Those 2 out of 10 times I lose are probably these “competent” D/D Eles you mention. Which brings me to another point…

Staff Ele pretty much REQUIRES competence to play effectively… without it, you’d probably be the weakest profession/build in the game. D/D however can be pulled off with relative ease in comparison… I will not say this isn’t why I win most duels against them… it could just be that they suck as players.

somsom.5201:

Force.5861:

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4->5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

No, and your build is the reason why. Staff can drop CRAZY numbers, especially when you synergize with firery greatsword. You are running a support staff build, which obviously will do less numbers than any kind of D/D setup. Try a serker setup with glyphs/arcane utilities and the synergy/dmg you will get from it is quite crazy.

Can you elaborate a little on that please? I dont see how FGS gets better for a staff than it would be for a D/D. I have tried a might-stack build with S/D and 30 fire (the might stacking one, not the field duration), and FGS in fire attune still gives might stacks. Just comparing the damage on the skills, i see D/D can get 100% burning uptime and staff cannot. dagger fire 1 and earth 1 both out-dps staff equivalents. Air and water in both specs do not have substantial sustained damage, or are at least outperformed by fire.

somsom.5201:

Force.5861:

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4->5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

No, and your build is the reason why. Staff can drop CRAZY numbers, especially when you synergize with firery greatsword. You are running a support staff build, which obviously will do less numbers than any kind of D/D setup. Try a serker setup with glyphs/arcane utilities and the synergy/dmg you will get from it is quite crazy.

I want to try this.

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

It seems that there’s not much bad to be said about staff then, mostly just a playstyle thing.

I suppose what grinds me is that if I were a D/D Ele I could theorycraft more and read up on different builds/strategies because the forums are literally LOADED with D/D threads. But as a staff Ele, I find discussion on the topic to be few and far between. Nothing to be done for it I guess. I’m glad I’m not the only one playing who appreciates the weapon though… I was starting to think I might be crazy or was just unaware of some special power that D/Ds have. I’ll take my amazing self-propelled fields/finishers over RTL any day. I guess it’s just a playstyle thing for me :-P

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

Let’s talk about why you’ll have a near impossible time against d/d…the cast time on staff abilities is just plain dumb.

What’s this long casting animation? I’ll just run right through you and put your ability on a gcd…

I stopped playing d/d and s/d with the huge influx of new ele’s playing it and have converted to staff and s/f or d/f. Playing a non-bunker staff build is VERY fun, but also very short lived.

Now don’t get me wrong…in a team fight I use a power staff/conjure build, you can completely obliterate an entire team on a node before being noticed.

Staff is great for control, support and aoe. No one is gonna deny that.

D/D doesn’t come nearly as close in terms of team utility.

Smartcast ground targeting ftw. No doubt staff casting animation can be exploited by a very competent player, but I find this to be the exception and not the rule in actual practice… I also have a good sense of opponent trajectory and have a pretty easy time lighting them up on the run.

you cannot kill any (smart) opponent with just ground aoe’s. every class, even D/D eles, have some mid/long range spells to damage you from safety.

He’s talking about staff autoattacks. They’re way too slow.

Razor.6392:

you cannot kill anyone with just ground aoe’s. every class, even D/D eles, have some mid/long range spells to damage you from safety.

He’s talking about staff autoattacks. They’re way too slow.

Interesting. I seldom auto-attack (I should say I seldom spam auto-attack) and kill other classes pretty consistently. And to be clear, I mean also in isolated sPvP fights… not just lighting up zergs in WvW which anyone can do with AOE.

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Force.5861:

somsom.5201:

Force.5861:

far as i know, D/D use evasive arcana to proc an extra might aoe in ring of fire after going to earth for 4->5. they also want 30 arcane for faster attune swapping and boon duration.

D/D definitely does more damage than staff, but without aurashare it does not bring as much utility to the group. When pugging (for dungeons and large DEs) i find that my teammates often need my help removing conditions and healing… giving them vigor (and fury) with aurashare will not help if they are not using their dodges to begin with. With cleansing water (regen removes conditions) i can cleanse an absurd amount of conditions with staff water – something like 8 removals over 6 seconds with 30 water and 10 arcane. It is also possible to bodyblock some projectiles with the staff earth aura up to protect teammates, but that is a bit more situational than the condition removal.

Solo farming is slower with staff than dagger, particularly if you keep a support focused build, but i choose to save the respec cost and just stay staff 24/7 now.

i typically run a 10/0/10/30/20 build, taking armor of earth, cleansing water, and blasting staff. the fire is 10% fire attune damage to help damage contribution for solo/small group play.

No, and your build is the reason why. Staff can drop CRAZY numbers, especially when you synergize with firery greatsword. You are running a support staff build, which obviously will do less numbers than any kind of D/D setup. Try a serker setup with glyphs/arcane utilities and the synergy/dmg you will get from it is quite crazy.

Can you elaborate a little on that please? I dont see how FGS gets better for a staff than it would be for a D/D. I have tried a might-stack build with S/D and 30 fire (the might stacking one, not the field duration), and FGS in fire attune still gives might stacks. Just comparing the damage on the skills, i see D/D can get 100% burning uptime and staff cannot. dagger fire 1 and earth 1 both out-dps staff equivalents. Air and water in both specs do not have substantial sustained damage, or are at least outperformed by fire.

I meant that FGS works well with Staff due to the build I’m currently using, not that Staff inherently buffs it or anything. It just synergizes better IMO than what you routinely see build wise for D/D eles and their usual trait setup(not to mention equipment choices).

You’re right that D/D does have some benefits to dmg increase, but I hardly ever see players going balls out D/D(there are some that have started recently with good results, but the majority so far are still doing bunker/heals builds).

You’re also right about water and air, although I would say that air for staff isn’t that much worse than fire, however it does require more situational use to maximize potential: specifically with multiple targets for the lightning to multi-hit(quite effective with zergs).

I’m not hating on D/D. My original post was an observation of the clear favoring of D/D discussion on the forums. There will always be the grey area known as player skill which will tip favor in one direction or another.

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

Michael.3279:

Smartcast ground targeting ftw. No doubt staff casting animation can be exploited by a very competent player, but I find this to be the exception and not the rule in actual practice… I also have a good sense of opponent trajectory and have a pretty easy time lighting them up on the run.

Yeah…I’m sure everyone knows about smart cast ground targeting. That isn’t the issue.

Michael.3279:

I’m not hating on D/D. My original post was an observation of the clear favoring of D/D discussion on the forums. There will always be the grey area known as player skill which will tip favor in one direction or another.

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

What?

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Ah, Rangers too… nothing makes me wish I had RTL like a flipping Ranger on my tail.

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

I’m not hating on D/D. My original post was an observation of the clear favoring of D/D discussion on the forums. There will always be the grey area known as player skill which will tip favor in one direction or another.

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

What?

Chicken butt.

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

I go back and forth with Arcane Shield and Armor of Earth. Love Armor for the CC-breaker but the shield is much better opening attack denial.

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

I’m not hating on D/D. My original post was an observation of the clear favoring of D/D discussion on the forums. There will always be the grey area known as player skill which will tip favor in one direction or another.

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

What?

Chicken butt.

Ok good, glad it didn’t make sense to you either…whew.

Pyrial.2917:

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

On the autos, yes. Which again is why I never rely on autos.

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

I’m not hating on D/D. My original post was an observation of the clear favoring of D/D discussion on the forums. There will always be the grey area known as player skill which will tip favor in one direction or another.

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

What?

Chicken butt.

Ok good, glad it didn’t make sense to you either…whew.

I just meant 1v1, I’m not likely getting killed by a D/D any more than he is likely to be killed by me. One of us would have to give up.

Id say its not just ride the lightning but also other useful skills dagger has like shock and chill auras, flame 3 charge forward instead of backward like the staff version and generally shorter cast times on skills.

Pyrial.2917:

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

Right, but only on the autos. The others can obviously be avoided by ranging, but then that opens it up for me to use autos, aoes, any other attunement/skills or escape.

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

On the autos, yes. Which again is why I never rely on autos.

Please tell me then what other abilities you are using that doesn’t have a long cast or a long activation delay?

Michael.3279:

That being said, I would wager that my build and my skill vs. a D/D Ele (bunker or otherwise) of equal skill would NOT favor the D/D Ele. I’m not saying I’ll WIN, just that I doubt I’d lose.

that could be arranged

Casting speed and/or projectile speed need to increase.

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

On the autos, yes. Which again is why I never rely on autos.

Please tell me then what other abilities you are using that doesn’t have a long cast or a long activation delay?

Cast times and activation delays are intuitively discerned by me at this point. I’ve been rocking staff Ele for months and months. With the exception of a few skills I have complete CONTROL over where my abilities land (unlike auto-attack).

If you can just strafe away from every AOE thrown down at you, the people throwing them should probably reroll. Heck, maybe you are so incredibly field aware that you can just briskly wander out of every attack I unleash… but you sir would be the exception to most, in which case I’d direct you back to my post about player skill to which you infamously replied “What?”.

Pyrial.2917:

Casting speed and/or projectile speed need to increase.

I won’t argue this.

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

Michael.3279:

Pyrial.2917:

somsom.5201:

Michael.3279:

Razor.6392:

You serious? Staff is viable and has it’s uses but you cannot defeat any remotely decent D/D users with it.

I’m almost convinced that this is a troll thread because of the PVT / healing accesories mention.

The gear rounds me out, I’m still packing quite a bit of power though and I outheal incoming D/D damage so… yeah, D/D hasn’t been much of a problem for me. Biggest pain in my kitten is perma-stealth thieves.

IMO the only way around that is a good initial block and then having the dmg to burst them down. Beyond that, no amount of healing power is going to help you out. I’ve had good luck with the following combo: arcane shield, lava font, arcane blast(combined with a Fire sigil has a guaranteed 30% proc chance), flame burst, and maybe an auto or two. If the thief is dumb they will stand and tank it, usually resulting in a dead thief. If they are smart, they will still take some dmg, which should allow you enough time to setup an aoe or perhaps regroup with your party. Either way, thieves are probably the least of my worries in WvW(bunker D/D eles or Rangers are probably the most annoying due to mobility/roots respectively).

Anyone who knows how to strafe is going to avoid most of your damage.

On the autos, yes. Which again is why I never rely on autos.

Please tell me then what other abilities you are using that doesn’t have a long cast or a long activation delay?

Cast times and activation delays are intuitively discerned by me at this point. I’ve been rocking staff Ele for months and months. With the exception of a few skills I have complete CONTROL over where my abilities land (unlike auto-attack).

If you can just strafe away from every AOE thrown down at you, the people throwing them should probably reroll. Heck, maybe you are so incredibly field aware that you can just briskly wander out of every attack I unleash… but you sir would be the exception to most, in which case I’d direct you back to my post about player skill to which you infamously replied “What?”.

Two players of equal skill, you are at a disadvantage as per the items I’ve already discussed…so the “what” was justified.

Pyrial.2917:

(snipped)
Two players of equal skill, you are at a disadvantage as per the items I’ve already discussed…so the “what” was justified.

I think his point is that he is not the best player out there, but he could survive the damage output of a similarly skilled D/D ele, to the point where it would be a draw.

I’ve had some VERY fun duels that last 4+minutes and are ultimately decided by one person missing a dodge and taking an extra hit or two, only to be ultimately worn down. I think my favorite such long duel was against a rifle+hammer warrior when i was support staff. Got him with an earth signet+lava font while my greater fire ele was up and his condition removal was down.

edit: just wanted to point out that i am also in the ‘definitely not the best’ category and neither is my warrior friend.

I fail to see how a staff user will outlast anyone at all when he’s not even doing damage.

Seriously, OP you said that you use PVT and healing power stuff… Isn’t that 0 critical chance and 0 critical damage? How are you even doing damage to your opponent?

You can be tanky, I’ll give you that. But you will not kill kitten.

Force.5861:

Pyrial.2917:

(snipped)
Two players of equal skill, you are at a disadvantage as per the items I’ve already discussed…so the “what” was justified.

I think his point is that he is not the best player out there, but he could survive the damage output of a similarly skilled D/D ele, to the point where it would be a draw.

I’ve had some VERY fun duels that last 4+minutes and are ultimately decided by one person missing a dodge and taking an extra hit or two, only to be ultimately worn down. I think my favorite such long duel was against a rifle+hammer warrior when i was support staff. Got him with an earth signet+lava font while my greater fire ele was up and his condition removal was down.

edit: just wanted to point out that i am also in the ‘definitely not the best’ category and neither is my warrior friend.

Thanks. That’s pretty much spot-on.

I get my kitten handed to me often enough and don’t pretend to be super-pro. I don’t even run tournament sPvP, just quick-join. But in my experience, I just don’t see D/D as being any better (or worse) than Staff… which led me to wonder why the noticeable lack of staff discussion on the forums.

I was happy enough with the “playstyle difference” explanation. But then there was some insistence that 2 equally skilled players would have D/D at an advantage, and I argue the validity of that statement because the D/D Eles I run into, I can usually best. No… I can best them MOST of the time… with my build as stated originally. In the scenarios that I’ve experienced. With few exceptions.

It could be they are doing it wrong, but seeing how there are about 3 cookie-cutter D/D builds on every thread on the internet, I don’t imagine they are ALL doing it wrong. A Berserker build doesn’t beat my PVTH build without the other player being significantly more skilled… it just doesn’t, I can outlast it all day long. So it’s not inherently better… s’all I’m saying. Nor does my longer cast/animation times hinder my ability to kick kitten in any very noticeable way… I always considered it part of the tradeoff of having more control over my arsenal than a D/D setup… I’ll take faster projectiles and/or shorter casts/delays… but I don’t NEED them.

Maybe it’s just most Staff Eles doing it wrong. I’ll take it as a compliment.

Razor.6392:

I fail to see how a staff user will outlast anyone at all when he’s not even doing damage.

Seriously, OP you said that you use PVT and healing power stuff… Isn’t that 0 critical chance and 0 critical damage? How are you even doing damage to your opponent?

You can be tanky, I’ll give you that. But you will not kill kitten.

With Runes of Divinity I have roughly 10% crit chance and something similar in crit damage. Nothing significant at all. You are correct. Actually I find the vitality to be kind of a waste as I seldom fall below 50% health… planning on trying out a full Cleric’s gear setup to see if toughness is enough for me. It should also be said that I’m an awesome dodger. Best mitigation is not getting hit.

I don’t know what to say dude… I don’t have a DPS meter and no way to collect post-fight stats, maybe crit is overrated? Shrug. But I certainly don’t do NO damage… I am constantly doing damage and I’ve constantly got about 7-10 stacks of might solo, more with a group. I run power on everything, so my guess is that is where my damage comes from and whatever spikes you get from crit are pretty much negated by my better healing… so… a wash? I can only say that I win more fights than I lose with the build as described… not saying it can’t be better, just saying what it is and what it does.

Michael.3279:

Force.5861:

Pyrial.2917:

(snipped)
Two players of equal skill, you are at a disadvantage as per the items I’ve already discussed…so the “what” was justified.

I think his point is that he is not the best player out there, but he could survive the damage output of a similarly skilled D/D ele, to the point where it would be a draw.

I’ve had some VERY fun duels that last 4+minutes and are ultimately decided by one person missing a dodge and taking an extra hit or two, only to be ultimately worn down. I think my favorite such long duel was against a rifle+hammer warrior when i was support staff. Got him with an earth signet+lava font while my greater fire ele was up and his condition removal was down.

edit: just wanted to point out that i am also in the ‘definitely not the best’ category and neither is my warrior friend.

Thanks. That’s pretty much spot-on.

I get my kitten handed to me often enough and don’t pretend to be super-pro. I don’t even run tournament sPvP, just quick-join. But in my experience, I just don’t see D/D as being any better (or worse) than Staff… which led me to wonder why the noticeable lack of staff discussion on the forums.

I was happy enough with the “playstyle difference” explanation. But then there was some insistence that 2 equally skilled players would have D/D at an advantage, and I argue the validity of that statement because the D/D Eles I run into, I can usually best. No… I can best them MOST of the time… with my build as stated originally. In the scenarios that I’ve experienced. With few exceptions.

It could be they are doing it wrong, but seeing how there are about 3 cookie-cutter D/D builds on every thread on the internet, I don’t imagine they are ALL doing it wrong. A Berserker build doesn’t beat my PVTH build without the other player being significantly more skilled… it just doesn’t, I can outlast it all day long. So it’s not inherently better… s’all I’m saying. Nor does my longer cast/animation times hinder my ability to kick kitten in any very noticeable way… I always considered it part of the tradeoff of having more control over my arsenal than a D/D setup… I’ll take faster projectiles and/or shorter casts/delays… but I don’t NEED them.

Maybe it’s just most Staff Eles doing it wrong. I’ll take it as a compliment.

what’s your ingame name ill message you someday to see how well you do

Razor.6392:

Michael.3279:

Force.5861:

Pyrial.2917:

(snipped)
Two players of equal skill, you are at a disadvantage as per the items I’ve already discussed…so the “what” was justified.

I think his point is that he is not the best player out there, but he could survive the damage output of a similarly skilled D/D ele, to the point where it would be a draw.

I’ve had some VERY fun duels that last 4+minutes and are ultimately decided by one person missing a dodge and taking an extra hit or two, only to be ultimately worn down. I think my favorite such long duel was against a rifle+hammer warrior when i was support staff. Got him with an earth signet+lava font while my greater fire ele was up and his condition removal was down.

edit: just wanted to point out that i am also in the ‘definitely not the best’ category and neither is my warrior friend.

Thanks. That’s pretty much spot-on.

I get my kitten handed to me often enough and don’t pretend to be super-pro. I don’t even run tournament sPvP, just quick-join. But in my experience, I just don’t see D/D as being any better (or worse) than Staff… which led me to wonder why the noticeable lack of staff discussion on the forums.

I was happy enough with the “playstyle difference” explanation. But then there was some insistence that 2 equally skilled players would have D/D at an advantage, and I argue the validity of that statement because the D/D Eles I run into, I can usually best. No… I can best them MOST of the time… with my build as stated originally. In the scenarios that I’ve experienced. With few exceptions.

It could be they are doing it wrong, but seeing how there are about 3 cookie-cutter D/D builds on every thread on the internet, I don’t imagine they are ALL doing it wrong. A Berserker build doesn’t beat my PVTH build without the other player being significantly more skilled… it just doesn’t, I can outlast it all day long. So it’s not inherently better… s’all I’m saying. Nor does my longer cast/animation times hinder my ability to kick kitten in any very noticeable way… I always considered it part of the tradeoff of having more control over my arsenal than a D/D setup… I’ll take faster projectiles and/or shorter casts/delays… but I don’t NEED them.

Maybe it’s just most Staff Eles doing it wrong. I’ll take it as a compliment.

what’s your ingame name ill message you someday to see how well you do

Moxie Proxy (though I imagine Michael.3279 will work too).
I’d enjoy that. I’m not here tooting my own horn. Just relaying my experience. I fully welcome the chance to be proven wrong… In fact, I kind of asked for that proof in my first post :-P