Guild Wars 2

Hello, guys, I have a quick question.

I’ve played Ele since launch, and have tried just about every combination of all the usable weapons. The only weapon set I haven’t tried yet is dagger focus. It seems to me that dagger focus would be just about the worst set up possible. However, I have noticed that there are quite a few people in game, and on the forums who are running dagger focus and saying that’s good.

My question is, what advantages does it have? I know what all the skills are since I’ve played with dagger and focus before (just never both together.)

TL;DR What’s the point of running dagger focus?

From what I’ve seen, the main advantage that it has is that you can access some of the high damage abilities on the dagger while also getting useful focus utilities.

For instance, lightning whip can be used for some semi-decent sustained damage that cleaves, and you get shocking aura on air attunement too. Fire attunement gets you burning speed, which you can follow up with frozen burst or ring of earth for some spike damage. Earth attunement also has magnetic grasp which can be useful.

Then from the focus, you can get things like swirling winds to protect against projectiles and gale to knock down. So if you’re taking a lot of incoming projectiles, you can block them (i.e. against ranger, engg, bow warrior, pistol mes), and gale is useful for following up with something like burning speed (similar to updraft -> burning speed combo). Fire attunment on focus is a bit crappy, but fire shield can be a bit useful. Water attunement has a ranged chill which is great for controlling people (as well as chasing/escaping), and you can use comet to interrupt things like heals. Earth attunement is probably the most useful, giving you a low cooldown condi clear with more projectile defense, as well as letting you go completely invulnerable while still being able to do stuff. This can let you completely cover ether renewal, secure a stomp, or just act like you’re a warrior that popped every stance in the game.

In comparison to dagger, I feel it’s definitely more defensively focused, but the utility you can get from the focus can be invaluable. I find it’s not as intuitive to use as d/d, and you do miss out on some nice skills (i.e. RTL, frost aura, fire grab), but you get some nice ones in return, particularly on air and earth attunement.

I haven’t really used d/f outside of an experimental condi build, so I haven’t really tried it as a substitute in a standard d/d build.

Dagger is overall more reliable to do damage than scepter. Scepter has a better burst but you can apply damage more regularly with a dagger.

Focus offers some defensive abilities which are needed because off hand dagger offers none (and dagger main hand + focus has a few ways to reach close range combat, I guess). Also main hand dagger requires you to get at close range so you can’t pressure the ennemy if you’re kited, in those situations focus may help since it’s good against projectiles.

So I guess the point is just to play something balanced with reliable damage + defensive abilities. I never tried it either because scepter, though less reliable, is way more fun.

dagger/focus is better than d/d in PVE because it offers you a lot more utility and a similar amount of might-stacking in combat (d/f has 2, d/d has only 1 since churning earth is a big DPS loss when fighting something).

focus offers a very powerful AOE projectile defence (swirling), 1 decent reflect skill and a very strong invuln skill on a relatively short cooldown. its main con is the fact that the fire field is harder for your party to use blast finishers in.

dagger offhand gives a big burst of damage through fire grab and some mobility (RTL also does decent damage), but the utility of focus generally outweighs offhand dagger’s uses.

hope this helps.

I use d/f in my condi build, works well for me.

Atoss.1056:

I use d/f in my condi build, works well for me.

Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

I wish I could share my build with you right now. It will have to wait until after the update. I’ve had great success with my d/f build. It’s a high dps build and I can kill anyone 1v1. Works great in group fights too. My hint is fresh air and one with air.

Isnt d/f the only ele weapon that has solo’d lupicus? That should tell you most of the reason why its the best for harder pve encounters.

Solo.9027:

Isnt d/f the only ele weapon that has solo’d lupicus? That should tell you most of the reason why its the best for harder pve encounters.

World record for fastest lupy solo was scepter focus though that was only used for might stack then fiery greatsword against the wall for almost all the damage. I also know that staff has done it, but dagger focus is by far the most popular weapon set for that fight.

Atoss.1056:

I use d/f in my condi build, works well for me.

Gotta teach me how to play D/F sometime. D/D is a tad bit boring now and scepter isn’t really for me

ArthurDent.9538:

Solo.9027:

Isnt d/f the only ele weapon that has solo’d lupicus? That should tell you most of the reason why its the best for harder pve encounters.

World record for fastest lupy solo was scepter focus though that was only used for might stack then fiery greatsword against the wall for almost all the damage. I also know that staff has done it, but dagger focus is by far the most popular weapon set for that fight.

I’d be interested in seeing a video of staff doing it.

This is a recent one someone made of fractal 49 mai trin i really liked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuwaTr6E4Os

FrownyClown.8402:

I wish I could share my build with you right now. It will have to wait until after the update. I’ve had great success with my d/f build. It’s a high dps build and I can kill anyone 1v1. Works great in group fights too. My hint is fresh air and one with air.

I’ve been running this also but I keep switching between water/arcane and earth for DPS increase and other utility. Decisions decisions….

I love D/F. Good support and decent bunker. Although I use 0-0-20-20-30 atm.

http://youtu.be/4Bi2kFke_Tw

Focus has a lot of defensive options so going full glass becomes somewhat safer with all the invuln / reflections and blocks you can get from both the weapon set and the utility slots.

Some abilities are bad, like fire #4 though. While dagger off hand has no true lackluster abilities (Frost aura OP as hell) most of them are just centered around damage and more damage. Not everything has to spin around damage.

Gale -> burning speed bursts just as hard anyways.

MightyMicah.7451:

Atoss.1056:

I use d/f in my condi build, works well for me.

Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

Well, dagger has good condi application and focus has good defensive abilities. I use it in WvW roaming or duels and trying in spvp sometimes (I don’t play much there – amulets, not much customized stats pla pla). I don’t think condi ele has much use in pve, I don’t play there anymore (almost), dungeons and other stuff – just go with those lightning hammer or other builds I guess – mobs are just mobs, they can’t clean condis, but condis don’t kill as fast as raw dmg… So kill fast and move on

Fire atunement – #2 drake’s breath allows you to put burns for a long duration with it’s short cooldown, use when you don’t see the enemy on fire; #3 burning speed usually makes the enemy dodge but since it’s condi build it doesn’t do that much dmg, wasted dodge is good for you though, also a fire field.
Water – #3 and #4 are 2 chills on short/long distance; #5 comet as interrupt on relatively short cd – 25s, but with telegraphed ring, so it’s possible the enemy dodges this. Depending on enemy it’s good to use it when you feel like he is gonna heal (around 50% or so) or go to stealth (thieves, mesmer elite).
Air – #2 for weakness to lower enemy dmg if he is bursty, condi filler if he is not; #3 shocking aura is good disable, if you fight thief especially (when he went invisible wait 2-3 sec and use it, good chance he will try backstab and get stunned); #4 is very good skill against all those engis/rangers, you can cast this and just use ether renewal with low chance to get interrupted; #5 is non telegraphed interrupt, use carefully cause it has long cd and it’s easy to waste it on random dodge.
Earth – #1 bleeds, bleeds, bleeds – if the enemy is already burning I try to stack some bleeds, it takes time however; #2 is 1 stack of bleed and cripple, can be used as condi filler or just to help you chasing the enemy, your choice; #3 immobilize, after using this I noticed many enemies use their condi clean “omg I can’t move, I’m gonna die” even if it’s not the case with condi cause you can’t rly burst them… ; #4 is one of the best skills here – 3 condi clean + cripple + blast finisher + reflect projectiles – you get me? One of the reasons I use trait to lower earth skills cooldowns, saved my kitten countless times and can turn tides of the fight to your favour depending on enemy (it mostly does :P ); #5 this is the 2nd reason that I traited earth skills for cooldowns, 40s from 50s, you can think it’s not big difference but it actually helps a lot “ahhh crap 2s more and I would be immune” in these situations

The other skills I didn’t mention aren’t that good. Fire wall or fire shield are just “meh” – casted because it wasn’t on cooldown type

Focus was rarely used but last times it’s getting common, at least in spvp ppl going glasscannon trying to burst while having those defensive abilities. With dagger offhand it’s more dmg but also higher risk I think. In condi builds you need the time to let the conditions eat your enemy and this is the reason I use focus – defensive skills give me that time. No point in posting build I guess cause the patch will change it probably, standard 0 0 20 20 30 traits atm, used to be 0 0 30 20 20 but EA is just too good + atunement cooldowns slightly shorter allow you to use the skill you currently need practically right away. The rest comes with how good you use it, how good you know the enemy class and guess what he is gonna do and react to that.

Broski you just need the time and practice :P I remember my first fight with condi engi on d/f – I lost so miserabely, I had no idea what the skills do what or how should I fight with this. Now engi is rarely a problem.

Atoss.1056:

MightyMicah.7451:

Atoss.1056:

I use d/f in my condi build, works well for me.

Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

Well, dagger has good condi application and focus has good defensive abilities. I use it in WvW roaming or duels and trying in spvp sometimes (I don’t play much there – amulets, not much customized stats pla pla). I don’t think condi ele has much use in pve, I don’t play there anymore (almost), dungeons and other stuff – just go with those lightning hammer or other builds I guess – mobs are just mobs, they can’t clean condis, but condis don’t kill as fast as raw dmg… So kill fast and move on

Fire atunement – #2 drake’s breath allows you to put burns for a long duration with it’s short cooldown, use when you don’t see the enemy on fire; #3 burning speed usually makes the enemy dodge but since it’s condi build it doesn’t do that much dmg, wasted dodge is good for you though, also a fire field.
Water – #3 and #4 are 2 chills on short/long distance; #5 comet as interrupt on relatively short cd – 25s, but with telegraphed ring, so it’s possible the enemy dodges this. Depending on enemy it’s good to use it when you feel like he is gonna heal (around 50% or so) or go to stealth (thieves, mesmer elite).
Air – #2 for weakness to lower enemy dmg if he is bursty, condi filler if he is not; #3 shocking aura is good disable, if you fight thief especially (when he went invisible wait 2-3 sec and use it, good chance he will try backstab and get stunned); #4 is very good skill against all those engis/rangers, you can cast this and just use ether renewal with low chance to get interrupted; #5 is non telegraphed interrupt, use carefully cause it has long cd and it’s easy to waste it on random dodge.
Earth – #1 bleeds, bleeds, bleeds – if the enemy is already burning I try to stack some bleeds, it takes time however; #2 is 1 stack of bleed and cripple, can be used as condi filler or just to help you chasing the enemy, your choice; #3 immobilize, after using this I noticed many enemies use their condi clean “omg I can’t move, I’m gonna die” even if it’s not the case with condi cause you can’t rly burst them… ; #4 is one of the best skills here – 3 condi clean + cripple + blast finisher + reflect projectiles – you get me? One of the reasons I use trait to lower earth skills cooldowns, saved my kitten countless times and can turn tides of the fight to your favour depending on enemy (it mostly does :P ); #5 this is the 2nd reason that I traited earth skills for cooldowns, 40s from 50s, you can think it’s not big difference but it actually helps a lot “ahhh crap 2s more and I would be immune” in these situations

The other skills I didn’t mention aren’t that good. Fire wall or fire shield are just “meh” – casted because it wasn’t on cooldown type

Focus was rarely used but last times it’s getting common, at least in spvp ppl going glasscannon trying to burst while having those defensive abilities. With dagger offhand it’s more dmg but also higher risk I think. In condi builds you need the time to let the conditions eat your enemy and this is the reason I use focus – defensive skills give me that time. No point in posting build I guess cause the patch will change it probably, standard 0 0 20 20 30 traits atm, used to be 0 0 30 20 20 but EA is just too good + atunement cooldowns slightly shorter allow you to use the skill you currently need practically right away. The rest comes with how good you use it, how good you know the enemy class and guess what he is gonna do and react to that.

Broski you just need the time and practice :P I remember my first fight with condi engi on d/f – I lost so miserabely, I had no idea what the skills do what or how should I fight with this. Now engi is rarely a problem.

Wow, thanks for the info! Like I said, I’m familiar with what all of the skills do, but I just never considered the scenarios I guess.

Just so you know, condi ele in sPvP is not a thing and will probably never be a thing.

Uhtameit.2413:

Just so you know, condi ele in sPvP is not a thing and will probably never be a thing.

Thanks for letting me know, Mr. Prophet

I’m gonna explain a bit in order to not look like a prophet :p : elementalist has very few conditions that can be applied regularly, the earth auto attacks (scepter and dagger) applies bleed, sure. In fire you have Drake Breath but that is your main source of damage, once it’s cleaned (and it will be against anyone who pays attention, hell even if the ele is not condi spec I will cleanse Drake Breath asap) you won’t ever deal enough damage to take down someone.

You can’t apply enough conditions to damage the ennemy, and that’s not something that’s close to getting solved. The best would be to run something hybrid with carrion stuff imo.

Else there is tanky staff condi ele, like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQFAWhcMacW2wwBd0AApAMjHg8BJlH7MjNA-ToAg2CuIaS1krJTTymsNN640B

It’s not fantastic but I’d take that any day over s/d or d/d or d/f condi.

Uhtameit.2413:

I’m gonna explain a bit in order to not look like a prophet :p : elementalist has very few conditions that can be applied regularly, the earth auto attacks (scepter and dagger) applies bleed, sure. In fire you have Drake Breath but that is your main source of damage, once it’s cleaned (and it will be against anyone who pays attention, hell even if the ele is not condi spec I will cleanse Drake Breath asap) you won’t ever deal enough damage to take down someone.

You can’t apply enough conditions to damage the ennemy, and that’s not something that’s close to getting solved. The best would be to run something hybrid with carrion stuff imo.

Yeah, I gotcha bro! I was just messing haha

Probably yes.
You can use a rune that gives you that additional condi. For now only 2 give that: perplexity and tormenting, and sigils – doom/torment. Let’s see what the patch brings to the table. Perplexity got nerfed and after ppl complaints it won’t come into spvp either. Hopefully other runes will have some good stuff.

Also you can just go with raw dmg build. I try condi only because I’m alrdy bored of old builds and wanna see if this will work

I think Dub is currently holding World record for Lupi solo in the ele category:

Scepter/dagger + FGS against the wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isY7G4uNYP0

Scepter/focus + LH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-IPlcIkZAs

Staff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lz2qU7QuXU

Dagger/Focus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RMKEUCPFlE

In good squads the damage I lose from using focus doesn’t matter because everything is dying so fast anyway. In bad squads I need the extra defense from focus to stay alive.

Losing Fire Grab isn’t that big a deal because it has a long cooldown. So does Churning Earth and in bad squads that gets me killed from drawing agro and in good squads the mobs are dead by the time it finishes channeling.

You lose healing by using focus but gain condi removal which helps so I can use arcane brilliance more as a blast finisher. Also I rely on elemental attunement and evasive arcana for most of my healing anyway so losing a healing skill isn’t that big a deal to my play style.

Gale seems more useful to me than Updraft. Swirling winds is great against Dredge mobs.

Put it all together and I like focus better for squads. Think of how many times in dungeon runs you will run past certain sections. Focus is great for that.

For PVP I think it really comes down to how much you value RTL.