Damage calculations

Damage calculations

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

Hi everyone

I’m not much of a target dummy tester, so I tried calculating damage (which of course is prone to errors etc). I’m speaking strictly about dungeons and damage, not wvw or pvp.

the point of this post:
earth has some great damage modifiers which can be kept up pretty easily, the calculations below seem to indicate they could improve overall damage (if I didn’t do anything wrong, which is probable).

the question:
why does no dungeon/speedrun build ever go into earth? is it because of the tradeoff of might-stacking/fury or the need to keep more conditions on your enemies?

the tested builds:
build 1 is a more or less common variant with very good damage – you need your enemies to be vulnerable and burning, otherwise you lose a lot. I’m using something like this normally
build 2 has better modifiers than 1, but losing power/prec does make a bigger difference. the modifiers are more stable though, as with vigour your endurance will mostly be full and bleeding is very common. survivability is a lot higher than with the other two builds though when I tried it in an AC pug.
build 3 needs bleeding, burning, vulnerability and full endurance but has the highest potential damage output, didn’t try yet.

sidenote
I use my ele pretty much exclusively in AC (other dungeons other toons), where the downleveling destroys crit damage. I don’t see it affecting my calculations too much, but I might have missed something?

calculations
rest of the post is just the builds I put together (very quickly) for demonstration purposes and the damage calculations, don’t read if you’re not interested in my method of coming up with my numbers =)


I’ve tried 3 builds:

  1. more or less typical LH build with mightstacking Build (maybe 5 less water and put them into air, for 10% crit dmg after arcane skills, depending on how many boons one can maintain)
  2. somewhat defensive setup Build
  3. going for all the modifiers I could Build

factoring power/prec/critdmg as well as the various modifiers (ignored those every build can have, like food, scholar, force etc)
I came up with the following numbers against heavy armor (2600, doesn’t matter though):

  1. 1984.147974206
  2. 1747.1515664961
  3. 2250.6005054369

since tables are not possible, it’s a bit hard to post my spreadsheet.
first the calculations:
CritDMG is 0.5 + the % value of the build, as by the build editor
Crit Chance is =FLOOR ( ( Precision – 822 ) / 21 , 1) / 100
Modifiers are the product of all modifiers ( (1+Modifier 1) * (1+Modifier 2) * (1+Modifier 3))
Scepter power is 952.5
Skill coefficient I just went with 1
Damage without Crits: = Weapon Power * Power * Modifiers Product * Skill coefficient / target armor
Damage with Crits: = Damage without crits *(1 + Crit Chance * (Crit DMG))

  1. Modifiers total 1.35828
    *Embers Might 5% (assumed always on)
    *Burning Rage 5% (assumed always on)
    *Bolt to the Heart 20% / 3 (only works 1/3 of the time)
    *Bountiful Power 5% (assumed 5 boons)
    *Vital Striking 10% (assumed always on)
  2. Modifiers total 1.4674275
    *Bountiful Power 5% (assumed 5 boons)
    *Vital Striking 10% (assumed always on)
    *Enduring Damage 10% (assumed always on)
    *Serrated Stones 5% (assumed always on)
    *Stone Splinters 10% (we’re always <600 range)
  3. Modifiers total 1.72569474
    *Embers Might 5% (assumed always on)
    *Burning Rage 5% (assumed always on)
    *Bolt to the Heart 20% / 3 (only works 1/3 of the time)
    *Bountiful Power 5% (assumed 5 boons)
    *Vital Striking 10% (assumed always on)
    *Enduring Damage 10% (assumed always on)
    *Serrated Stones 5% (assumed always on)
    *Stone Splinters 10% (we’re always <600 range)

I assumed 5 boons for bountiful power, could be higher/lower of course.

so in theory (and if my calculations are correct) the overall damage of just going for all modifiers is about 13% higher, though less fury/might will be possible, which would cut into this.

if you have read so far, did you notice any serious mistakes in the calculations?

(edited by Oranisagu.3706)

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Explain your crit chance calculation please
Otherwise you should just check my Zalculator

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

Damage calculations

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

Explain your crit chance calculation please
Otherwise you should just check my Zalculator

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit
sorry, the forum seems to have messed it up, I’ll try to fix it

tried to checked out your calculator, links didn’t work, seems filedropper.com has dropped the file ;-)

the problem with calculating is all the assumptions I had to make. how many boons, might etc, is the target constantly vulnerable/burning/bleeding etc, this will change the effective damage quite a bit and is hard to foresee

(edited by Oranisagu.3706)

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Yeah you can do all this with my calc. I’ll try to upload my latest version on monday (I am travelling), it also includes a preview of my rotation calculator

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

Yeah you can do all this with my calc. I’ll try to upload my latest version on monday (I am travelling), it also includes a preview of my rotation calculator

while I surely will check it out, my question, as to why no builds go into earth for the modifiers still stands. my calculations were not to predict accurate damage values for fights or rotations but rather compare the damage those groups of modifiers do in relation to each other (factoring in the additional power and critting from the choice of skill trees).

unless you use different formulas for calculating damage the output from your spreadsheet should show the same point – the earth line could in theory improve overall damage yet no dps builds use it.

I should’ve used a better title, but I can’t change it anymore =)

(edited by Oranisagu.3706)

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Well people dodge Also earth provides no offensive stats
For their 13.6s GL kill rT used two elems with 0/25/25/20/0 builds

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

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Posted by: tattoohead.3217

tattoohead.3217

The dec 10th patch also changes some things a bit, it makes fire more appealing altogether.

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

Well people dodge Also earth provides no offensive stats
For their 13.6s GL kill rT used two elems with 0/25/25/20/0 builds

using fgs dodging can be avoided quite a few times, depending on the situation.
no offensive stats, but more offensive (situational) traits. i.e. the <600 range one is an always on 10%. if my calculations are correct (so far I haven’t gotten any feedback saying otherwise), the overall dmg output is higher than with a typical LH build, despite going into the ‘defensive’ tree. even if endurance is never full, the output should be higher.

so if rT is using it (assuming they went into earth for exactly those modifiers) to break records, why are there nearly no builds around using it? =)

I’m just wondering about the reasons, I’ll probably stick to my 30/20/0/20/0 because more often than not pugs don’t max might and this way we have at least an average of around 20.

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Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

Also earth provides no offensive stats

Condition damage is an offensive stat.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Explain your crit chance calculation please
Otherwise you should just check my Zalculator

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit
sorry, the forum seems to have messed it up, I’ll try to fix it

tried to checked out your calculator, links didn’t work, seems filedropper.com has dropped the file ;-)

the problem with calculating is all the assumptions I had to make. how many boons, might etc, is the target constantly vulnerable/burning/bleeding etc, this will change the effective damage quite a bit and is hard to foresee

My calculator is now available again

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

Damage calculations

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

so if rT is using it (assuming they went into earth for exactly those modifiers) to break records, why are there nearly no builds around using it? =)

I’m just wondering about the reasons, I’ll probably stick to my 30/20/0/20/0 because more often than not pugs don’t max might and this way we have at least an average of around 20.

Pre-fight blasts gave stacks of might and there was no burning hence going into fire would have been a waste. But normally you should picked some points from the fire line.

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

so if rT is using it (assuming they went into earth for exactly those modifiers) to break records, why are there nearly no builds around using it? =)

I’m just wondering about the reasons, I’ll probably stick to my 30/20/0/20/0 because more often than not pugs don’t max might and this way we have at least an average of around 20.

Builds with a base 0/20/20/20/0 are pretty much just DPS machines. Sure, going 25 into earth is manageable when you have FGS for dodges, but what about the 1-2 minutes when you don’t have FGS?

Also, 30/10/10/20/0 is higher DPS than 30/20/0/20/0, especially if you can change your second arcane skill (Arcane Blast) for Signet of Fire.