Guild Wars 2

As long as Thieves are based off that stupid resource mechanic, none of it will ever be balanced. They can go full glass cannon, 3 shot somebody with just about any combination of skills so long as it includes Backstab and Cloak and Dagger, and then run away freely with Infiltrator’s Arrow or Shadow Refuge, 90% of the time being ‘invisible’ because the rendering is terrible in this game.

Side note: the hell was ANet thinking buffing Shadow Refuge to automatically grant the 10 second stealth instead of needing to sit in it?

hmm, well he did appear after killing me, but combat log only showed the 3 hits.

That is pretty strange that all those hits hit for more or less same damage. Hearthseeker’s damage is based on target’s HP and damage when he is in 50%-100% range is half of the damage when the target is 0% – 25% range.

It looks to me either like a combat log issue or I’m terribly misinformed.

Thats what I thought too… However I decided to do some sPvP, i have 2,900 something armor, and still being hit for 3 – 5k by thieves. It is sad. I mean look how noob the class is, everyone in sPvP seems to be making thieves… This needs to be looked at, it is not coincidence that 80% of the games I join look like this.

“Side note: the hell was ANet thinking buffing Shadow Refuge to automatically grant the 10 second stealth instead of needing to sit in it?”

@Papaj:
It´s not instant, he must remain inside the circle until it dissapears (4 seconds I think), then he can leave without getting unstealthed. It was mainly a bugfix for the skill, which wasn´t behaving as intended.
I feel your pain though (as my main is an Elementalist), why Thieves receive bugfixes like this and we don´t get at least the duration fixes (Healing rain, Armor of Earth etc…)?
I really can´t figure this out, honestly….

I feel your pain though (as my main is an Elementalist), why Thieves receive bugfixes like this and we don´t get at least the duration fixes (Healing rain, Armor of Earth etc…)?
I really can´t figure this out, honestly….

To be completely honest we got some of our bugs sorted out and some abilities were buffed, so I can somehow accept the fact that they fixed thiefs a bit. They also nerfed some of the burst potential of thiefs last few patches, so if this trend will continue I’m fine with this.

Otaur.9268:

Thats what I thought too… However I decided to do some sPvP, i have 2,900 something armor, and still being hit for 3 – 5k by thieves. It is sad. I mean look how noob the class is, everyone in sPvP seems to be making thieves… This needs to be looked at, it is not coincidence that 80% of the games I join look like this.

The thing is that thiefs are noob-stomping profession that doesn’t have high skill floor when playing against the majority of sPvP players. That means that a lot of players are going to play them because it is easy to get high numbers playing them. Those classes are pretty popular in every kitten game in PvP unless they get nerfed into the oblivion.

I’m sure that if this trend continues then Anet will do something more about it. They already nerfed thiefs quite a bit (they nerfed PW, HS, LBD and changed signet functionality) and I expect them to continue if necessary.

Your best bet is to learn how to play against them as best as you can and just feel good about it. The weaker they will be in the future the stronger you will be against them. Now isn’t that cool in a very strange and masochistic way?

kubetz.3058:

I feel your pain though (as my main is an Elementalist), why Thieves receive bugfixes like this and we don´t get at least the duration fixes (Healing rain, Armor of Earth etc…)?
I really can´t figure this out, honestly….

To be completely honest we got some of our bugs sorted out and some abilities were buffed, so I can somehow accept the fact that they fixed thiefs a bit. They also nerfed some of the burst potential of thiefs last few patches, so if this trend will continue I’m fine with this.

To be honest, I don´t see any true bugfixes in the last patch notes, there are some buffs of course (downed mode, Cone of cold, Ring of earth), but the wider cone on Fire grab/Lightning touch is rather a tweak than a bugfix (fixing netcode/terrain collision so you won´t miss those skills if aimed properly, that would be a bugfix).
So Ele didn´t received any bugfixes, as I stated before. And for those who think that I´m only another Elementalist crybaby I have to say no, I´m just being objective, my alt is a Thief so I like the changes (even the burst “nerf”), but it seems kinda unfair to Ele class which has so many easy-to-fix bugs.

I’m fairly good at fighting thieves…I have found that the key seems to be just surviving their initial pwn fest so you can get your defenses and healing up.

When I am jumped by a HS or BS thief, the first thing I do is pop mist form if it’s up and heal…if it’s not up, well you are in a spot of trouble, but attuning to earth for the protection can help, and final shielding can save you as well. Anyway, once you survive his initial pwning, things change a lot in the battle. Thieves are all about front-loaded damage. He is not going to be able to hit you as hard as he did in that first burst.

What I do next is usually to get prot up, heal up, put either frost or shock aura on, and then shift to fire and DPS. Nearly every thief I have encountered in WvW goes down REAL fast to even my defensive build.

Yesterday, I took on two thieves at once, one was 80, and the other hit hard so he was probably close or well geared for his level. Anyway, I downed one, and would have won the fight, but the downed thief killed a stupid monster and revived. His buddy had like no health left…so it was a close fight, two thieves vs. one elementalist.

Taking thieves IS possible…they cannot burst you consistently like they burst you in the beginning of the fight. That is what you have to remember. Survive the initial burst, and you can win.

Yea i use my skills / utilities vs thieves all the time. The stun aura, mist form, etc. All very helpful, but when you get 4 – 5 at once on you… You are dead before u can take a breath.

Otaur.9268:

Yea i use my skills / utilities vs thieves all the time. The stun aura, mist form, etc. All very helpful, but when you get 4 – 5 at once on you… You are dead before u can take a breath.

Hehe yeah, but having 4-5 thieves on any class is pretty much insta-gib if you don’t see it coming. I don’t really see the problem there.

STRanger.5120:

To be honest, I don´t see any true bugfixes in the last patch notes, there are some buffs of course (downed mode, Cone of cold, Ring of earth), but the wider cone on Fire grab/Lightning touch is rather a tweak than a bugfix (fixing netcode/terrain collision so you won´t miss those skills if aimed properly, that would be a bugfix).

You are not a crybaby at all. There are a lot higher standards on this forum for getting such a title.

Bug fixes:

• Signets: All signets have been updated to function properly with the Earth Magic traits Written in Stone and Signet Mastery.
• Glyph of Renewal: This skill no longer resurrects dead allies; it only revives downed ones.

Even tho we are not happy about the Renewal fix really, the functionality was not intentional and therefore it was a bug that got fixed. I think it got higher priority compared to other bugs because it can be quite a game changer in some specific scenarios.

I’m considering the “responsivness” issues to be bug fixes too, but I don’t really care if anyone else likes to put different label on it. If you have a look in the patch notes you will see that they don’t like to use word “bug” when it comes to profession changes. When they fix RTL in the future they may call it “improving the responsivness” too

Thiefs are much more powerful now than they were 3 days ago. I was hit last night for 19k in 1 combo of Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Backstab (One of the 3 hit for 9k). All of this while the thief was completely invisible. By this point I was dropped down to about 2k health. This exact same combo was done to me constantly, because there were 9 thiefs in the game.

My character has roughly 21k health and 2800 armor. IMO, it is total BS that this type of damage can be done by a class that is able to easily escape from any fight at their discretion. At least with Warriors, once your team focuses them, they drop.

I would gladly take a heartseeker spamming newb over someone instagibbing everyone with less than 18k health. At least I have a few seconds to react to heartseeker.

@Albane:

Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

Final shielding may have saved you, but that shouldn’t be REQUIRED for survival. So yeah, normally I think most people that complain just aren’t playing the class very well, but that is crazy. I don’t know how you could possibly counter that.

@Kubetz: The renewal glyph is kinda unusable after the recent “bugfixes” and the Signet trait is still bugged as I read on the forums (didn´t tested it myself yet), the passive effect of signet of malice heals much less amount when on CD than when off CD, there are few topics about that. But there was more bugs than this, which were fixed. Ok, let´s call the trait change a bugfix.
I´m still irritated by some bugs which are bothering the class from the beta, like air attunement atacking (switch autotarget off is only half-a-solution and hardens the gameplay) – Also not only Air attunement does this, there are more skills with this bug, not even elementalist ones (thief traps for example do the same thing, signets did it too – not sure now, didn´t played my Thief a while). The above mentioned duration bugs (healing rain etc..), bugged traits like cantrip CD reduction, lingering elements (either clear description needed or it should work for ALL passive element effects), and much more.
The class would be much more playable and smooth without these bugs (didn´t mentioned RTL, because this is mentioned literally everywhere). I can´t wait to see those fixed

Thiefs are much more powerful now than they were 3 days ago. I was hit last night for 19k in 1 combo of Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Backstab (One of the 3 hit for 9k). All of this while the thief was completely invisible. By this point I was dropped down to about 2k health. This exact same combo was done to me constantly, because there were 9 thiefs in the game.

He was probably really dedicated glass cannon with might on signet use or staff like that and with juicy crits .. Or he was on steroids.

The discussion in thief subforum about this change is pretty long and for some it was a buff, for others it was nerfed (link here).

Burst of the BS thiefs is PITA to deal with if you allow them to successfully hit you .

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:

Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

Final shielding may have saved you, but that shouldn’t be REQUIRED for survival. So yeah, normally I think most people that complain just aren’t playing the class very well, but that is crazy. I don’t know how you could possibly counter that.

Everyone thinks im complaining, but there is a point to what I post. I know how to play the class quite well, and can survive a lot of abuse in sPvP, but to go from full life to 1k in less than a second just really irks me.

Otaur.9268:

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:

Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

Final shielding may have saved you, but that shouldn’t be REQUIRED for survival. So yeah, normally I think most people that complain just aren’t playing the class very well, but that is crazy. I don’t know how you could possibly counter that.

Everyone thinks im complaining, but there is a point to what I post. I know how to play the class quite well, and can survive a lot of abuse in sPvP, but to go from full life to 1k in less than a second just really irks me.

Eh, I feel like HS spam gives me enough time to react. IMO, BS thieves are MUCH more deadly. They spike for a lot higher in a single hit.

The best thing about HS thieves is that most of them are dumb and just keep hitting the “2” key, so when I mist form, they waste all their initiative hitting me lol.

Is the full life to 1K health you describe from multiple thieves HS spamming or just one? A single thief should take more than a second to reduce you to 1K HP from full to 1K with HS spam…BS could probably do it though.

STRanger.5120:

@Kubetz: The renewal glyph is kinda unusable after the recent “bugfixes” and the Signet trait is still bugged as I read on the forums (didn´t tested it myself yet), the passive effect of signet of malice heals much less amount when on CD than when off CD

Yeah, it was a bug fix that put in the same league as other abilities like that. It is lot less useful now, I totally agree.

Haven’t tested those other changes myself and I agree that if we will be getting 3 new bugs for 2 fixes then I won’t be that happy. I hope the QA team will step up their game a bit.

STRanger.5120:

The class would be much more playable and smooth without these bugs (didn´t mentioned RTL, because this is mentioned literally everywhere). I can´t wait to see those fixed

Agree. I can imagine necromancers, engineers and other professions can’t wait to see their fixes too.

Apparently game designers can’t manage to learn invisibilty → huge burst → signifcant ability to escape, is impossible to balance and an absolute failure in every MMO, nor that such a potential low TTK = low skillcap, which for a game that allegedly is about high skill PvP is a joke.

Creslin.1758:

Otaur.9268:

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:

Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

Final shielding may have saved you, but that shouldn’t be REQUIRED for survival. So yeah, normally I think most people that complain just aren’t playing the class very well, but that is crazy. I don’t know how you could possibly counter that.

Everyone thinks im complaining, but there is a point to what I post. I know how to play the class quite well, and can survive a lot of abuse in sPvP, but to go from full life to 1k in less than a second just really irks me.

Eh, I feel like HS spam gives me enough time to react. IMO, BS thieves are MUCH more deadly. They spike for a lot higher in a single hit.

The best thing about HS thieves is that most of them are dumb and just keep hitting the “2” key, so when I mist form, they waste all their initiative hitting me lol.

Is the full life to 1K health you describe from multiple thieves HS spamming or just one? A single thief should take more than a second to reduce you to 1K HP from full to 1K with HS spam…BS could probably do it though.

This post was originally made because a thief hit me 3 times before I could even render him. And saddest part was it was 3 heartseekers for 6K+ each hit. With only 16k life I was downed to fast to do anything. (Was in WvW) With 2300 + armor.

Then went into sPvP and got 2988 Armor, which was what the later posts were about.

Otaur.9268:

Creslin.1758:

Otaur.9268:

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:

Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

Final shielding may have saved you, but that shouldn’t be REQUIRED for survival. So yeah, normally I think most people that complain just aren’t playing the class very well, but that is crazy. I don’t know how you could possibly counter that.

Everyone thinks im complaining, but there is a point to what I post. I know how to play the class quite well, and can survive a lot of abuse in sPvP, but to go from full life to 1k in less than a second just really irks me.

Eh, I feel like HS spam gives me enough time to react. IMO, BS thieves are MUCH more deadly. They spike for a lot higher in a single hit.

The best thing about HS thieves is that most of them are dumb and just keep hitting the “2” key, so when I mist form, they waste all their initiative hitting me lol.

Is the full life to 1K health you describe from multiple thieves HS spamming or just one? A single thief should take more than a second to reduce you to 1K HP from full to 1K with HS spam…BS could probably do it though.

This post was originally made because a thief hit me 3 times before I could even render him. And saddest part was it was 3 heartseekers for 6K+ each hit. With only 16k life I was downed to fast to do anything. (Was in WvW) With 2300 + armor.

Then went into sPvP and got 2988 Armor, which was what the later posts were about.

Yeah the render bugs definitely suck. It has happened to me before too. So I think the issue you describe has more to do with the render bugs than the thief.

I can normally press “R” (mist form with my setup) or “V” (dodge), before thief can land three heartseekers on me, provided he renders.

The thing about thieves (especially HS thieves) is that they are basically ALL front-loaded damage. This can be really deadly because they have higher spike potential than any other class in the game. And it really does require fast reflexes to not get killed by them. But as I said before, once you evade the initial pwnage, you are at an advantage. The thief is essentially spent after that and will do much less damage.

So all that matters is having enough time in that intial burst window to muster a counter (of which we have many). And I feel like 3 heartseekers is more than enough time.

One thing that I wanted to add is that once again, BS thieves prove much more dangerous because all they need to do to inflict MASSIVE damage is stealth and get behind you. They do this with ZERO initiative by using one of their utility or heal skills to stealth and then just walk behind you and press “1” which takes 0 initiative. And while they are doing this, they are gaining initiative, maybe enough to C&D and then BS you again.

Sylosi.6503:

Apparently game designers can’t manage to learn invisibilty -> huge burst -> signifcant ability to escape, is impossible to balance and an absolute failure in every MMO, nor that such a potential low TTK = low skillcap, which for a game that allegedly is about high skill PvP is a joke.

I guess Anet expected that the temporal nature of the stealth in GW2 will give a fighting chance to other players to spot the thief and plan their dodges and/or oh-kitten skills to survive.

Unfortunately current rendering issues and inability to react when you cannot spot the thief before the fight are making that profession more of a issue to fight that it was intented.

But I’m sure that in a world where you are panning your camera like crazy, so you can see everything, stealth is working properly and everything is isolated 1v1 duel without any messy group fights and particle effects all over the place .. in that world BS thiefs are ok to fight against.

kubetz.3058:

Sylosi.6503:

Apparently game designers can’t manage to learn invisibilty -> huge burst -> signifcant ability to escape, is impossible to balance and an absolute failure in every MMO, nor that such a potential low TTK = low skillcap, which for a game that allegedly is about high skill PvP is a joke.

I guess Anet expected that the temporal nature of the stealth in GW2 will give a fighting chance to other players to spot the thief and plan their dodges and/or oh-kitten skills to survive.

Unfortunately current rendering issues and inability to react when you cannot spot the thief before the fight are making that profession more of a issue to fight that it was intented.

But I’m sure that in a world where you are panning your camera like crazy, so you can see everything, stealth is working properly and everything is isolated 1v1 duel without any messy group fights and particle effects all over the place .. in that world BS thiefs are ok to fight against.

Stealth is tough…and I can only really catch a thief that is trying to escape if he is predictable and runs in a straight line. Otherwise, they are pretty much gone.

The only thing I have found to help against perma-stealthers is that DoT damage will still appear even when they are stealthed so you can find where they are.

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:
Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

It was in sPvP. I don’t bother with WvW anymore because I find it to just be a battle of the zerg. I was really hoping for a more open world like DAoC, where you could run around as a group fighting other groups, but that won’t happen with all the PvE mobs. I would have also liked to see something other than gear as a reward for dedication to WvW, like perhaps a special skill received after 10,000 kills. Nothing insane, but something useful for your allies.

They need to fix stealth, so that it cannot be used in combat. I wouldn’t mind getting hit for such an insane burst, if I knew the thief was going to be killed by any other player nearby after appearing. The problem is, a thief unloads on 1 player, kills them, then vanishes from the fight with complete impunity for their actions.

Creslin.1758:

Stealth is tough…and I can only really catch a thief that is trying to escape if he is predictable and runs in a straight line. Otherwise, they are pretty much gone.

The only thing I have found to help against perma-stealthers is that DoT damage will still appear even when they are stealthed so you can find where they are.

I’m lacking experience against thiefs, but I’ve seen more experienced D/D PvPers to use earth #4 and air #5 to control the thief until his stealth wears off. Also things like earth #2 (cripple + DoT) helps a lot.

There are no real perma stealthers doing bursty damage in this game. There is just stealth + rendering issues making them not appear at all. You can be almost permastealthy in some scenarios (like C&D chaining), but you cannot kill anyone that way unless he is just AFK.

Albane.8367:

Creslin.1758:

@Albane:
Wow that’s crazy, was this sPvP or WvW? I completely agree that, ignoring gear, no class should ever be able to one shot someone with ZERO chance of retaliation.

It was in sPvP. I don’t bother with WvW anymore because I find it to just be a battle of the zerg. I was really hoping for a more open world like DAoC, where you could run around as a group fighting other groups, but that won’t happen with all the PvE mobs.

They need to fix stealth, so that it cannot be used in combat. I wouldn’t mind getting hit for such an insane burst, if I knew the thief was going to be killed by any other player nearby after appearing. The problem is, a thief unloads on 1 player, kills them, then vanishes from the fight with complete impunity for their actions.

You can totally wander around with a smaller group in WvW fighting other groups, I do that right now…sometimes I even wander around solo and kill stragglers or other solos. Come to the bottom WvW tier (Ferg’s, Devona’s, and Kaineng).

The stealth thing…I dunno, I mean on one hand it is basically the thief’s only real defense. Because every thief I have fought and got completely torn apart by just a bit of damage if you can pin them down. But as it is now, it does seem really difficult to track a stealth specced thief down once they decide they want to leave.

kubetz.3058:

Creslin.1758:

Stealth is tough…and I can only really catch a thief that is trying to escape if he is predictable and runs in a straight line. Otherwise, they are pretty much gone.

The only thing I have found to help against perma-stealthers is that DoT damage will still appear even when they are stealthed so you can find where they are.

I’m lacking experience against thiefs, but I’ve seen more experienced D/D PvPers to use earth #4 and air #5 to control the thief until his stealth wears off. Also things like earth #2 (cripple + DoT) helps a lot.

There are no real perma stealthers doing bursty damage in this game. There is just stealth + rendering issues making them not appear at all. You can be almost permastealthy in some scenarios (like C&D chaining), but you cannot kill anyone that way unless he is just AFK.

Yep, I use my knockdowns and cripples to try to control thieves…but once again, you need to know where they are. If he stealths and dodge rolls in a random direction, the chance of me getting lucky and hitting him is fairly low.

And yes, the thief obviously comes out of stealth when they hit you, but there are so many tricks they use to stealth that they can stay in stealth for a very high percentage of time in a fight…especially in the beginning of the fight when their CDs are usable.

Also, BS thieves DEFINITELY do bursty damage, and they can stay in stealth a lot. I got nailed by one for 11K damage on ONE hit. ONE hit, not over a period of time, ONE hit. But I think that this was because of Assassin’s signet, that got changed/fixed.

Overall, I would say that I can stop stealth thieves trying to get away a lot of the time, but it’s only when they are dumb and act predictably…I usually either control them with an ability or hit them with drake’s breath so it puts a DoT on them and I can see where they are.

But when a thief is smart and goes in an unexpected direction…it is very hard to catch them.

I am really curious as to how the people complaining about thieves play… I can take on 2 sometimes even 3 thieves at once and down them all. I use S/D and I mean that itself has 3blinds with relatively short cds and 1 that is instant cast. 2 aoe kd’s also near instant cast. 5heals (6 if you wish to count runes, and up to 4 extra regens – so 10 heals in all), and a bunch of mini nukes/aoes to take shelter in. There’s no way people should have trouble 1v1ing a thief unless they pretend they’re playing a thief themselves by going all berserker gear… in which case you’d deserve to get 1 shotted. Even if having a bad build was the case, just blinding and rolls basically hardcounters them. Thieves work based on initiative; no initiative, no heartstrike, no dmg all point to a dead thief.

@Micro Hard:

I think most of the players have problems when facing thief’s initial BS burst unprepared. That burst will eat most (or all) of their HP if the thiefs are specced glass cannons. Given S/D and D/D skills I’m sure than if you can see the thief coming then we are one of the best professions to control him and recover from his damage.

I was surprised that thief was able to open for 19K damage on defensively specced ele. That is putting the ele into a huge disadvantage as he is either already dead or is basically one attack away from being dead.

I think there should be a skill from item or spell that reveal invisibility for a very short time. It’s not just that thiefs have very large damage output in very short time but they can do it undetected.

there a post in spvp telling the same but with warrior no matter how mana armor you have they still hit like a truck

@Micro Hard – You must play against the kitteniest thieves ever. 2 of the thieves I mentioned above would drop you before you could react and Mist form. But somehow, you are so good you can handle 3 of them with their 45k burst damage on you and their ability to avoid all of your damage with a dodge/stealth. Of course, at least you only have a 15 second cooldown on most of your abilities, while theirs is roughly 1/4 a second.

Don’t get me started on their potential to also deal range damage of 4k aoe.

@Ricky

I play a glassy warrior (20/30/0/10/10) Axe/Axe and I dont have the huge burst that thieves do. HB warriors have the massive front end burst that a thief does however with Axe or greatsword you can see us coming thus making it much easier to avoid/mitigate a warriors damage.

On top of that if a warrior burst fails, we cant disengage like a thief can (that kitten is so frustrating having successfully withstood a burst only to see the thief vanish to some point halfway across the map)

I play a more sustained DPS warrior in which my autos are hitting for 1.5-2k, I can hit extremely hard with eviscerate but it takes time to build and you can still avoid it if you can react fast enough.

That is the drawback about being a warrior, once we are engaged, normally we cant disengage until our target is dead or we are dead.

@Albane: They may have no cooldowns, but they do have initiative, and it does run out. Three thieves is difficult, especially if they don’t suck. I can take maybe like 1.5 middling thieves in WvW (1 being sub-80 to be the .5), but even 1 excellent BS thief can be tough.

My friend (Guardian) and I had a lot of grudge matches with these two really good BS thieves in WvW. Half the time we would win, half the time they would win. The match almost always seemed to be decided in the first few seconds.

They would always try to focus me down with their BS stuff. If I was able to mist and then recover with heals and put up protection, we normally had the fight. Once they blew their initial pwnage, they weren’t that bad, and we could cut through them…and I also had my protections up at that point.

But if they could down me in the very beginning, it was game over.

minion.6245:

@Ricky

I play a glassy warrior (20/30/0/10/10) Axe/Axe and I dont have the huge burst that thieves do. HB warriors have the massive front end burst that a thief does however with Axe or greatsword you can see us coming thus making it much easier to avoid/mitigate a warriors damage.

On top of that if a warrior burst fails, we cant disengage like a thief can (that kitten is so frustrating having successfully withstood a burst only to see the thief vanish to some point halfway across the map)

I play a more sustained DPS warrior in which my autos are hitting for 1.5-2k, I can hit extremely hard with eviscerate but it takes time to build and you can still avoid it if you can react fast enough.

That is the drawback about being a warrior, once we are engaged, normally we cant disengage until our target is dead or we are dead.

Perfect description of how classes should be balanced. This is why I don’t complain about Warriors, even if they can sometimes drop me pretty kitten fast.

Maybe watch some pro teams, thieves arent an issue at all, a competitive game should be balanced based off the top team’s ability to play and ideas, not by random unskilled players and their random encounters with inefficient builds and gear

TheBob.9863:

Maybe watch some pro teams, thieves arent an issue at all, a competitive game should be balanced based off the top team’s ability to play and ideas, not by random unskilled players and their random encounters with inefficient builds and gear

Of course they are not an issue on pro teams. Pro teams cannot win a game with 5 thieves constantly running around insta gibbing people. Pro games have very little to do with your standard 8v8 game or even WvW.

I got hit with 2300 toughness by a warrior and he did dish out 9k dmg with just one skill which causes a double strike. I have screenshots from this situation and I will add it probably in the thread “your game is broken: toughness vs burst”.

I dont care how good you are versus this many thieves you are dead.

it should be pretty easy to fix this, Devs can create “Signet of Sight”:

- passive: blinds incoming melee attack (2 secs)
- active: reveals what lurks in the shadows (5 secs)

and of course slightly tune down that opening burst, limit the ability to flee ecc ecc.

No I am not a troll… 2300 IS NOT a lot, my ele build has 3200 armor… thats almost an extra 1000, 2300 is basically default, you probably arnt using valkeryies amulet and still rely on beserker in your build to output damage.

If you think 2300 armor is going to stop you getting mass amounts of damage from burst builds you don’t know what you are talking about.

You will probably come back at me like “who the hell are you, some random noob from pvp”. Well I am a player in a team capable of beating (or holding our own 450+ to 500) top teams on desolation server including but not limited to. Oo (Origne Online) TP (Team Paradigm) MS (Mace Stun) RSL (Receeding Skill Line). You will probably then come back at this saying “Yea right, random scrub”. So I don’t know why I am trying because no matter what I say you will ignore it and dismiss my answer because that’s how people on the internet work, but trust me when I say 2300 is tiny, its basically glass cannon. The difference between 2300 and 3000+ is MASSIVE.

Oh and fyi, I main ele and have done since alpha…

I’ve got a level 80 thief and I expect that’s a combat log issue. Heartseeker at high health isn’t worth using. And vs high armour people like Guardians or Warriors I seem to do nothing (full exotic and I’ll hit a 1.6-2k backstab in the back crit as a max, which with initiative being initiative and low survival, and stealth cd’s being large is problematic).

Papaj.9035:

because the rendering is terrible in this game.

So much this.

Again and again.

kubetz.3058:

@Micro Hard:

I think most of the players have problems when facing thief’s initial BS burst unprepared. That burst will eat most (or all) of their HP if the thiefs are specced glass cannons. Given S/D and D/D skills I’m sure than if you can see the thief coming then we are one of the best professions to control him and recover from his damage.

I was surprised that thief was able to open for 19K damage on defensively specced ele. That is putting the ele into a huge disadvantage as he is either already dead or is basically one attack away from being dead.

I did post screenshots what incomming dmg can happen even if you are a bunker/tank specced elementalist. Burst is not 19k, but still questionable.(thief and warrior examples on page1+2)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Toughness-vs-burst/page/2#post549923