Guild Wars 2

I look at the Tempest traitline, not even those warhorn niche and redundant skills, and I can’t even find traits I would be using in serious PvE content.

4.5 sec channels is a DPS LOSS. Overloads need to charge in the background while you can use your own skills.

Nobody will overload fire or air in PvE because water and earth autoattacks are terrible in damage compared to fire/air.

Measly healing and occasional, long cd CC will never be worth losing damage in PvE.

All those might stacks are worthless in a world of Phalanx Strength warriors keeping permanent 25 might stacks for the group, and eles can already lay fire fields with lava font so their group can blast might stacks for easy might cap.

Strangely and somewhat ironically, I think the only place in PvE that tempest might have potential in is with glass staff. It all really depends on how powerful fire overload is in terms of damage. It will have to beat out the loss of 10% damage at >90% hp from water or bountiful power from arcane. If it beats out fireball (which it most likely will) an ele can put down lava font and use fire overload every 15 seconds. It will also combo fire whirl adding a nominal amount of burning damage and triggering the minor trait burning rage. The fire tornado also remains behind for a period of time providing even more damage.

Additionally staff has traditionally had the problem of having poor damage when locked out of fire attunement when the ele is forced into another attunement to heal or use a utility skill. If the air overload damage is good, an ele can use air overload to dps while fire attunement comes off cooldown.

While the PS warrior has really pushed other might giving methods out of the meta by being the most superior method by far with no setup required, the fire overload tornado does give ~8-10 stacks of permamight if you trait overload cooldown reduction. This provides some additional offensive support as a staff ele to parties without a PS warrior.

I think a standard rotation for staff ele for large bosses might be: earth 2 -> air attune -> glyph of storms ->fire attune – >lava font – >icebow 5 – > icebow 4 -> lava font – > fire overload – > lava font – > meteor shower – > standard rotation until overload and meteor shower come off cooldown, rinse & repeat. If forced out of fire use air overload after you are finished using the skills you planned to use when you switched out of fire.

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

Celestial d/d only roam and duel, they don’t generally go in a melee train fighting a blob.

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too, so let for pinning down fragile gank targets and supporting the rest of the gank squad.

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too.

If you GvG with a d/d ele in your melee train you’re taking an epically huge risk.

Xillllix.3485:

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too.

If you GvG with a d/d ele in your melee train you’re taking an epically huge risk.

I actually used to be in a raid guild and was running d/d in a focus party, lots of guilds were, but that was a quite long time ago. I was ever hardly in melee, it wasn’t my job, but people have been switching for different specs for focus parties lately.

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too.

If you GvG with a d/d ele in your melee train you’re taking an epically huge risk.

I actually used to be in a raid guild and was running d/d in a focus party, lots of guilds were, but that was a quite long time ago. I was ever hardly in melee, it wasn’t my job, but people have been switching for different specs for focus parties lately.

Yeah that’s a good point. I stopped WvWing last summer, and it was kind of common back then, but I can see how the current meta would prefer different things like stacking more mesmers in gank.

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too.

If you GvG with a d/d ele in your melee train you’re taking an epically huge risk.

I actually used to be in a raid guild and was running d/d in a focus party, lots of guilds were, but that was a quite long time ago. I was ever hardly in melee, it wasn’t my job, but people have been switching for different specs for focus parties lately.

Focus party isn’t the same as melee, and for pick s/f is more bursty. I’ve seen d/d eles try to actually play with the melee train, they were always dying all the time. Much better to replace them with a warrior. Anyway we’re getting off topic.

Normally the D/D Ele is in your gank squad, not your melee train.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure Tempest, like everything in GW2, is designed for an idealized version of GW2 combat, where all modes require players to bring balanced comps in order to succeed. And no, dungeons as they are right now aren’t a part of that. It’s why they’ve more or less abandoned making dungeons with the current system in place. They do not balance for dungeons and I don’t think they ever will balance for the dungeons we have now.

For myself, I greatly look forward to the Tempest, to try it out in the casual things I play now, mainly casual dungeon/fotm runs, but also random open world PvE stuff. But I know it’s not as good as the optimal set up for now, and I’m OK with that. But I understand, for those who strive for excellence, why it must be such a letdown.

Xillllix.3485:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

nearlight.3064:

Zenith.7301:

Xillllix.3485:

I think it’s quite the opposite. Having an elementalist play melee role is something that can only exist in PvE/PvP, certainly not in WvW.

Yeah, because celestial D/D eles are wholly absent from WvW rolls eyes so hard they become detached

He’s right you know. I mean besides roaming, when I did WvW and GvGs in a organized group, 1 or 2 D/D eles were considered a viable option on a gank squad, besides theif/mesmer and eviscerate warrior. Sure most ele’s would roll staff, but D/D had a niche in big groups too.

If you GvG with a d/d ele in your melee train you’re taking an epically huge risk.

I actually used to be in a raid guild and was running d/d in a focus party, lots of guilds were, but that was a quite long time ago. I was ever hardly in melee, it wasn’t my job, but people have been switching for different specs for focus parties lately.

Focus party isn’t the same as melee, and for pick s/f is more bursty. I’ve seen d/d eles try to actually play with the melee train, they were always dying all the time. Much better to replace them with a warrior. Anyway we’re getting off topic.

That was the point, though. D/d eles used to be run in the focus parties and tbh it depends on your server. In lower tier you can run d/d even in melee and be fine.

Zenith.7301:

Nobody will overload fire or air in PvE because water and earth autoattacks are terrible in damage compared to fire/air.

Do note that overloading doesn’t force you out of your atunement, only puts it on a longer cooldown if you were to swap out. I can see Glass Staff Tempest being somewhat viable in PvE (not top tier like what we have currently). Also, Ele already shines in PvE, I believe specializations are designed to help a class do what it normally can’t.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Do note that overloading doesn’t force you out of your atunement, only puts it on a longer cooldown if you were to swap out. I can see Glass Staff Tempest being somewhat viable in PvE (not top tier like what we have currently). Also, Ele already shines in PvE, I believe specializations are designed to help a class do what it normally can’t.

So that’s the reason for bad elite spec? Good enough already.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Zenith.7301:

Nobody will overload fire or air in PvE because water and earth autoattacks are terrible in damage compared to fire/air.

Do note that overloading doesn’t force you out of your atunement, only puts it on a longer cooldown if you were to swap out. I can see Glass Staff Tempest being somewhat viable in PvE (not top tier like what we have currently). Also, Ele already shines in PvE, I believe specializations are designed to help a class do what it normally can’t.

Which is strange, because eles are also really good in pvp, and they are already pretty good at boon sharing and aoe.

Simply put, people should be excited about their specializations. I don’t mean ele deserves power creep comparable to other classes because it is still at the top, but at least pretend like you still care about PvE when designing new stuff.

Zenith.7301:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Zenith.7301:

Nobody will overload fire or air in PvE because water and earth autoattacks are terrible in damage compared to fire/air.

Do note that overloading doesn’t force you out of your atunement, only puts it on a longer cooldown if you were to swap out. I can see Glass Staff Tempest being somewhat viable in PvE (not top tier like what we have currently). Also, Ele already shines in PvE, I believe specializations are designed to help a class do what it normally can’t.

Which is strange, because eles are also really good in pvp, and they are already pretty good at boon sharing and aoe.

Simply put, people should be excited about their specializations. I don’t mean ele deserves power creep comparable to other classes because it is still at the top, but at least pretend like you still care about PvE when designing new stuff.

I mean, you’re not required to spec as tempest, remember that. Your PvE effectiveness is virtually unchanged with the introduction to tempest. Tempest was designed around front line boon sharing, rather than back lined sharing, so this elite spec was primarily focused around PvP and WvW, whereas Ele’s are already in a great place in PvE (Hell, even seen as a requirement in some cases).You also forget the fact that tempest may be viable with the PvE meta for HoT’s release, so it’s rather too early to say it won’t fit with the PvE meta.

Back line sharing in pve? What are you trying to say? There’s no backline in pve…

rotten.9753:

Back line sharing in pve? What are you trying to say? There’s no backline in pve…

Yes, but there is in PvP and WvW, other game modes do exist as the entire game doesn’t revolve around PvE

There’s no backline in PvP as well, heck, positioning in gw2 went to trash with gw2 conquest’s mechanics, skirmishing and abundance of leaps and teleports.

The only structural positioning is in WvW to my knowledge.

Its odd every one seems to feel that its good and bad for the same things at each point of the game (pve spvp and wvw). I have a feeling ppl realy do not know what they are talking about.

Tempest for pve is a melee support who will give out boons to every one in there pt and make them stick ontop of having some good burst dmg with lighting orbs some what burst wall trick like the old FGS mind you not to the same level but still an easy 25 stack of vanablitly and good dmg on a mostly low cd.

For spvp tempest should fall into a bruiser roll much like d/d but they should be more able to move some one off a point then before with boon removal and much stronger knock backs.

For wvw tempest will fall into the hammer train mood where they can brake stuns from there team mates set up pulls for bombs and set up a limited water field (not on the same level as staff but still better then any thing else ele has). I am thinking ele will pop there eliet then AoE then heat sink to give out a super strong stab to there team then earth 4 all before the first bomb then fall back into air and fire for low cd WH effects to brake stuns as needed.

Jski.6180:

Tempest for pve is a melee support who will give out boons to every one in there pt and make them stick ontop of having some good burst dmg with lighting orbs some what burst wall trick like the old FGS mind you not to the same level but still an easy 25 stack of vanablitly and good dmg on a mostly low cd.

1. Everyone single profession in the pve meta has melee support.
2. Cyclone has 180 range, you can’t pull mobs reliably with that
3. Lightning orb has pretty weak damage and the more mobs there are, the weaker it becomes, not to mention that if you cast in melee against the single mob it will hit him only a few times. Hardly a good damage.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Tempest for pve is a melee support who will give out boons to every one in there pt and make them stick ontop of having some good burst dmg with lighting orbs some what burst wall trick like the old FGS mind you not to the same level but still an easy 25 stack of vanablitly and good dmg on a mostly low cd.

1. Everyone single profession in the pve meta has melee support.
2. Cyclone has 180 range, you can’t pull mobs reliably with that
3. Lightning orb has pretty weak damage and the more mobs there are, the weaker it becomes, not to mention that if you cast in melee against the single mob it will hit him only a few times. Hardly a good damage.

1. ya and we all could be war and mez but what the fun in that your playing this game wrong if you think this way.
2. Cyclone pull is 180 its radues is 240 and its cast ranges is the full 750 its a lot more then just a small one shot pull. Added note its unblockable too.
3. Lightning orb effects is more on the lines of a pet that attks every 1/4 of a sec doing about 400 to 500 dmg with a 10 sec vonabitly per hit its not important how hard it hits its important how fast it hits much like the old dash into a wall trick.

You can still d/d ele in zerg fights.. please apply rank fight logic, trait accordingly and get the correct gear mechanics lol. This is a L2P issue for you or your zerg. Please don’t face tank, burst in and get the fresh flowers out rotate your line position. Or if less skill just fight where you can get back into an entry point safely. If you die from focus fire well anyone would, just don’t go in glassy lol.

maybe woodenpotatoes incinerator D/WH build can use tempest
Fire/Tempest/Arcane
WH fire field + fire overload = kittenload of burning

Jski.6180:

1. ya and we all could be war and mez but what the fun in that your playing this game wrong if you think this way.
2. Cyclone pull is 180 its radues is 240 and its cast ranges is the full 750 its a lot more then just a small one shot pull. Added note its unblockable too.
3. Lightning orb effects is more on the lines of a pet that attks every 1/4 of a sec doing about 400 to 500 dmg with a 10 sec vonabitly per hit its not important how hard it hits its important how fast it hits much like the old dash into a wall trick.

1. You misunderstood me, we’re already melee support in pve. Ele support = fury + might, both of which has 360 range.
2. Its cast shape is linear, it pulls towards the line it moves on. Again, 180 range pull is weak in comparison to the existing pulls (450, 600 ranges for multi-targeted pulls). And quite few of them are unblockable as well.
3. During livestream, it hit for 450 while critting and the old fiery rush was hitting much higher and much more frequent (70 hits in about 4 seconds). Moreover, fiery rush could have hit up to 3 targets with the same efficacy, unlike lightning orb whose single target efficacy decreases with the number of affected targets. It will also hit a stationary foe in melee range just a few times. They are nothing alike.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

1. ya and we all could be war and mez but what the fun in that your playing this game wrong if you think this way.
2. Cyclone pull is 180 its radues is 240 and its cast ranges is the full 750 its a lot more then just a small one shot pull. Added note its unblockable too.
3. Lightning orb effects is more on the lines of a pet that attks every 1/4 of a sec doing about 400 to 500 dmg with a 10 sec vonabitly per hit its not important how hard it hits its important how fast it hits much like the old dash into a wall trick.

1. You misunderstood me, we’re already melee support in pve. Ele support = fury + might, both of which has 360 range.
2. Its cast shape is linear, it pulls towards the line it moves on. Again, 180 range pull is weak in comparison to the existing pulls (450, 600 ranges for multi-targeted pulls). And quite few of them are unblockable as well.
3. During livestream, it hit for 450 while critting and the old fiery rush was hitting much higher and much more frequent (70 hits in about 4 seconds). Moreover, fiery rush could have hit up to 3 targets with the same efficacy, unlike lightning orb whose single target efficacy decreases with the number of affected targets. It will also hit a stationary foe in melee range just a few times. They are nothing alike.

1. Furly blasting is better most of the time for pve and its not really a lost of the ele class for having tempest to be added i am not sure why your making this conclusion.

2. It pulls ppl for 180 but it will pull ppl with in 240 ranges of where the “projectile” is. So if your at the max 240 from it you will be moved 180 close to it so your moved 60 from the center putting you will within aoe of other attks ranges.

3. The ranges on the orb it self seems to be 300 so for its 1,200 trip it should be in ranges of a target for 1/4 of its full use and with its attk speed it should hit that single target for a good number of times and each hit is +1% more dmg then the last. Its not about hitting more then one target becuse in pve if your after a boss your mostly hitting one mob to burst it down and if you have it moving you can plan out the path and let even more orb hits.

Jski.6180:

1. Furly blasting is better most of the time for pve and its not really a lost of the ele class for having tempest to be added i am not sure why your making this conclusion.

2. It pulls ppl for 180 but it will pull ppl with in 240 ranges of where the “projectile” is. So if your at the max 240 from it you will be moved 180 close to it so your moved 60 from the center putting you will within aoe of other attks ranges.

3. The ranges on the orb it self seems to be 300 so for its 1,200 trip it should be in ranges of a target for 1/4 of its full use and with its attk speed it should hit that single target for a good number of times and each hit is +1% more dmg then the last. Its not about hitting more then one target becuse in pve if your after a boss your mostly hitting one mob to burst it down and if you have it moving you can plan out the path and let even more orb hits.

1. Did I make that conclusion or you simply draw that conclusion? I’m saying tempest doesn’t change anything since we’re already close range support in pve.

2. I know how it works, it’s still weak when compared to pull like path of scars (450 pull, 900 range) or binding blade/magnetic shield (600 radius pull).

3. I’m sure you can force a boss to move in sync with the orb to maximise lightning orb’s potential. I just don’t know how since you won’t even be able to fear or push it.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

1. Furly blasting is better most of the time for pve and its not really a lost of the ele class for having tempest to be added i am not sure why your making this conclusion.

2. It pulls ppl for 180 but it will pull ppl with in 240 ranges of where the “projectile” is. So if your at the max 240 from it you will be moved 180 close to it so your moved 60 from the center putting you will within aoe of other attks ranges.

3. The ranges on the orb it self seems to be 300 so for its 1,200 trip it should be in ranges of a target for 1/4 of its full use and with its attk speed it should hit that single target for a good number of times and each hit is +1% more dmg then the last. Its not about hitting more then one target becuse in pve if your after a boss your mostly hitting one mob to burst it down and if you have it moving you can plan out the path and let even more orb hits.

1. Did I make that conclusion or you simply draw that conclusion? I’m saying tempest doesn’t change anything since we’re already close range support in pve.

2. I know how it works, it’s still weak when compared to pull like path of scars (450 pull, 900 range) or binding blade/magnetic shield (600 radius pull).

3. I’m sure you can force a boss to move in sync with the orb to maximise lightning orb’s potential. I just don’t know how since you won’t even be able to fear or push it.

1. Your thinking too much best in class type of mmorpg play an ele is best as a staff in pve there is no contesting that but its not about being the best build its about playing the way you want to and it may let ele fill a roll that only mez can atm high boon duration effects. Even if d/d ele go all in for boon duration and boon from aura being able to put boons on your tempest to your pt will let ele give a good stab to there group.

2. The thing is cyclon is better then gurds pull becuse the ele dose not need to be in the center to land them it can be used as a pure ranged pull its more on the lines like mez line pull but with more potentials to pull ppl all be it a bit less ranges on the pull it self.

3. Lighting orb is still going to do a lot of dmg to single target mobs or players (more so players then mobs).

1. Ah, so we are finally on the same track. You are a representative of phiw.

2. I’m completely flabbergasted to see that you believe cyclone has better efficiency than into the void.

3. This self-denial and wishful thinking will get you nowhere.