Dev Feedback?
well they still owe us a “post bwe3 changes” thread so.. daredevil and dragonhunter got them, tempest still waiting.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
With all of the confusion, frustration, and dialogue related to the Temptest, Can we get some development team feedback? It would be nice to hear if they hear the woes or if they believe that we have to ride it out. I think a lot of the frustration is that the community is unsure of the direction. A little transparency goes a long way. If we are told things wont be looked at, then we can begin to grieving process and move on. While things remain up in the air, chaos ensues.
I understand that not all players have conflicts with the traitline; however there are an overwhelming amount of posts about the disappointment of some of the added features and the lack of synergy they provide to the base class. While people continue to work to defend the traitline, I am in the category of finding it lackluster.
tldr: Tell us what you’re thinking so we can find some solid footing.
I don’t think we can expect much when even making a fire field work properly is more complicated than expected. I have over 5000 hours on ele and about 10 hours on engi and I had more success in pvp last night facerolling my skills on Scrapper (with marauder amulet and some random build) than I’ve ever had with tempest. Yeah you can bunker up but there is just nothing new there.
How can they compare an elite that gives you stealth for 30 seconds with another one that basically does nothing beside an aura? Why did the balance team let that one slip through?
well they still owe us a “post bwe3 changes” thread so.. daredevil and dragonhunter got them, tempest still waiting.
And I believe this further created a rift between the elementalist community and the development team. While I was not around for bwes, I heard that a lot of the complaints being vocalized were also shouted from mountains during bwe3.
the problem is, even during bwe1-3, out of all devs working on the elite specs we got the one who was the least talkative, especially in the ele forum.
it would be nice if karl just opened a thread asking for feedback on x and y, or talk about his ideas, asking what we think about z. one can only dream.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
the problem is, even during bwe1-3, out of all devs working on the elite specs we got the one who was the least talkative, especially in the ele forum.
it would be nice if karl just opened a thread asking for feedback on x and y, or talk about his ideas, asking what we think about z. one can only dream.
100%.
It’s hard to feel left out. I get the sense that a lot of the elementalist community has felt and continues to feel neglected at this moment. Everyone is receiving these great traitlines and we don’t value what we have. In my opinion, it is like being the poor family in a wealthy neighborhood on Christmas.
I bought the expansion; however prepared myself to be disappointed with Temptest after reading all the feedback. I attempted to utilize warhorn but felt it did not compete with the current offhands we have. The PVP style of the traitline doesn’t add to the D/D playstyle and only enhances the bunker ability of the staff setup. While I watch other players falling in love with their new lines, I keep placing further and further distance between myself and the game hoping that someone finds the perfect setup the Devs intended or some kind of discussion from the team explaining what they are going to do to make it shine a little more. If I don’t play and notice the glaring issues, then I wont hate it right?
I’ve thought of class switching numerous times (i like to focus on just one class/character); however I’ve played my ele since the headstart and feel guilty switching.
i was trying to switch to revenant because i got bored of playing d/d ele for more than a year.. then they nerfed revenant.. so i went back to ele and started playing support tempest. then they removed minstrel amulet :^) i could go back to d/d ele but i’m not gonna do that. i could play celestial tempest but it just doesn’t feel rewarding.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
i was trying to switch to revenant because i got bored of playing d/d ele for more than a year.. then they nerfed revenant.. so i went back to ele and started playing support tempest. then they removed minstrel amulet :^) i could go back to d/d ele but i’m not gonna do that. i could play celestial tempest but it just doesn’t feel rewarding.
Try Scrapper with 4 gyros and slick shoes, it’s a lot of fun.
It would be nice to actually get some response about some of the issues that have been brought up since the second beta event and are still current i guess.
In pvp tempest seems to be decent enough, it makes me wonder if there is much of a difference between the previous celestial cantrip eles and the current tempest build. You took regen on cantrips…. now you take regen on auras isn’t this kind of like the same thing? sort of… ? I thought that tempest was a new way to play elementalist, getting locked out of an attunement or camping 1 attunement seem like nerfs instead of buffs to what was a very fun class with a pretty decent skill curve to master.
In pve tempest is a bit of a strange beast, warhorn is basically useless and it will actually turn your character from a master of the elements to a master of flatulence (seriously, if you guys can’t figure out a better sound effect then remove the sound completely), i guess we know where all those ele storms come from now. What is the deal with heat synk? because at the moment it looks like a really terrible version of persisting flames… except with a 30s cooldown, i can imagine using it if you didn’t have access to the fire trait, but since it’s only sharing 2 boons which pretty much every other profession can generate better anyway, why on earth would i wanna use it, i might as well just keep on auto attacking.
I’ve had some decent success with full ascended celestial and air/arcana/tempest, s/d fresh air and glyph o storms in air attunement but it isn’t exactly something stellar.
Wasn’t there talk of a rework for ele scepter skills at some time before launch of HoT. So far i’ve only seen dragon’s tooth being a ground targeted skill and no other changes.
the problem is, even during bwe1-3, out of all devs working on the elite specs we got the one who was the least talkative, especially in the ele forum.
it would be nice if karl just opened a thread asking for feedback on x and y, or talk about his ideas, asking what we think about z. one can only dream.
100%.
It’s hard to feel left out. I get the sense that a lot of the elementalist community has felt and continues to feel neglected at this moment. Everyone is receiving these great traitlines and we don’t value what we have. In my opinion, it is like being the poor family in a wealthy neighborhood on Christmas.
I bought the expansion; however prepared myself to be disappointed with Temptest after reading all the feedback. I attempted to utilize warhorn but felt it did not compete with the current offhands we have. The PVP style of the traitline doesn’t add to the D/D playstyle and only enhances the bunker ability of the staff setup. While I watch other players falling in love with their new lines, I keep placing further and further distance between myself and the game hoping that someone finds the perfect setup the Devs intended or some kind of discussion from the team explaining what they are going to do to make it shine a little more. If I don’t play and notice the glaring issues, then I wont hate it right?
I’ve thought of class switching numerous times (i like to focus on just one class/character); however I’ve played my ele since the headstart and feel guilty switching.
I generally agree that the spec feels like it was the most rushed. The Devs don’t really seem interested in giving Elementalist any kind of unique spec outside the pseudo tempest-auramancer. The class lacks direction, the dev has been less than helpful in acting on feedback, and watching everybody else get shiny new specs that are almost universally loved is painful. I haven’t met a single engie/chrono who disliked their elite. Whether or not they used it.
Warriors are in the same boat with the Berserker, but their dev is Robert so…
Warriors are in the same boat with the Berserker, but their dev is Robert so…
I would argue warriors have a half-sound concept though the execution is terrible. A condi warrior is basically what berzerker is and I’ve seen some ppl be successful with it, that said it is a little lackluster though I would not say it is as lackluster as Tempest.
I do think the numbers need tuning but the build seems to be able to stack a whole bunch of burn using sword and rifle. That said I’ll let warriors talk about the spec, they need to find out a good balance between how easy a warrior is to play compared to what they can get.
Warriors are in the same boat with the Berserker, but their dev is Robert so…
I would argue warriors have a half-sound concept though the execution is terrible. A condi warrior is basically what berzerker is and I’ve seen some ppl be successful with it, that said it is a little lackluster though I would not say it is as lackluster as Tempest.
I do think the numbers need tuning but the build seems to be able to stack a whole bunch of burn using sword and rifle. That said I’ll let warriors talk about the spec, they need to find out a good balance between how easy a warrior is to play compared to what they can get.
Yeah I find this interesting. When I look at berserker traits, I see a lot of good and a lot penitential. When I tried playing berserker during the beta, it just seemed to fall apart due to adrenaline management issues that made it clunky and frustrating to play. Tempest is sort of similar but the overload mechanic is gated a lot better than the adrenaline mechanic’s bipolar nature, should I use a normal burst skill now or save up for primal bursts that aren’t worth the build up?
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
It’s quite likely Tempest used to be a melee/sword spec and was switched half-way in development. When you look at the half-finished datamined sword skills, the close combat theme with overloads + shouts, the NAME (Storms do not support, storms do not heal they DESTROY).
Either the devs couldn’t get the sword to work, genuinely thought warhorn would be a better option (I’d love to see the explanation behind this, it can’t compete with either the focus or offhand dagger.) or just didn’t care. So now we’re left with 8 filler skills on a ranged offhand for a melee spec with no synergy with the Tempest itself or the base elementalist with 8 reused animations and half-finished skills and concepts. Rebound. Warhorn #5, Wildfire, Heat Sync post-nerf.
Anytime the Tempest almost had a new unique niche it got taken away from them as soon as possible because heaven forbid we get anything new to play with. Boon strip? Removed before Beta 1. Meaningful Boon Sharing? Gone. Now we can share Might and Fury, great. We struggled with that before so that’s a really nice skill to have on a 30 second cooldown. If Resistance/Aegis/Stability/Quickness were causing balance problems then simply block them from being shared but no the heavy-handed nerf to uselessness approach wins again. Neither incarnation of Rebound feels like an elite skill and initially neither affected the user correctly either. The original was a poor man’s Alacrity, now we’ve got a poor man’s A.E.D. Overloads are 3 sets of penalties for an underwhelming effect that requires you to be point blank range with no stability, no invulnerability, no blocks, no evades and the lowest health and armour.
We gave feedback, lots of feedback. Yes some players were upset but when you see a dev post saying “Most of the feedback was positive.” when it very clearly that doesn’t bode very well. There were a lot of very valid and constructive posts in that sea of salt, listening to the people who’s reaction is to knee-jerk defend anything arenanet does will not improve the Tempest and it didn’t.
Now they’re burying their heads in the sand and as we all know that’s the best way to solve a problem. Any feedback or communication with the ele subforum would be all we need to perhaps steer the Tempest into a form worthy of the title “Elite Specialisation” rather than “Worse at the same niche as the base elementalist” and “The runt of the other Elite specs.”. Tempest development needs to stop happening in a vacuum sealed bunker safe from criticism.
(edited by Shadowphazon.7529)
I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread, hoping for some miracle that we would actually get some sort of dialog going with the developers, somehow i doubt this will happen, and if by some sort of miracle it does, it will be a standard “we’re aware of your concerns and working to address them as soon as possible” with no other info and the matter is closed for discussion.
For the past 3 years i have been reading these forums and until a little while ago i only bothered to post a few times thinking it’s a waste of my time, i’d like to post a quote here that is pertinent to the issue at hand. This was posted 29 days ago.
Bam!
Thanks everyone in advance for your constructive feedback. Please keep in mind that we’re getting close to day zero and that the smaller the change, the more likely we’ll be able to discuss and action that feedback. This isn’t the end, however. We’ll continue to make changes, when necessary, after HoT releases, as well.Thanks!
-Karl
So… not to seem like a spoiled, entitled 5 year old but… what happen to the discussion? to the possible action on the feedback? This isn’t the end? seems like the end was a long time ago and nobody bothered to tell us about it.
One thing i know from experience about companies that produce goods is that complaints from business partners are a top priority, while complains from “the market” are catastrophic, now don’t get me wrong, i am not saying that as customers we are always right, but we do have certain concerns we would like to have addressed (many like @Shadowphazon.7529 pointed them out) with more than the standard company reply. For a company that provides entertainment having customers (vocal minority or not)be happy should be a top goal, after all we are not talking about buying a bag of popcorn or a cheap movie dvd from the sales bin, this product is designed to give us tens of hours of enjoyment, years even, having it broken on upgrade is not exactly fun.
It is my honest opinion that the elementalist community does not desire to have an “elite” specialization that is nothing more than a god mode class. I think that what we really want at the end of the day is an elite specialization that flows together cleanly with all the rest of the elementalist lines, it does not have to be overpowered, it does not have to solo 5 legendary enemies at once. If Arenanet was unable to deliver such a thing then how come reapers are around, months ago before the beta events necromancer was being bashed around by players on forums like a punching bag, complaining with merit that the class had problems and they only keep up with it because of the love they have for it. The developers responded by making what seems like the most fun specialization i have seen in a mmo, it gives me flashbacks to dervishes and necromancers back in Guild Wars 1, when i tried it back in bwe2 i had this stupid kitten grin on my face for like half an hour. For my fav class which i have been playing since i started GW1 and kept up with in GW2 we received the master of storms flatulence, it does exactly what we could do before except by forcing you to pick up fresh air/elemental enchantment if you want to at least even attempt to lower the kitten cooldowns on attunements and deal some damage or a choice between cleansing water or powerful aura, either you remove some conditions and heal up a bit or you share auras/support with your team. There are countless such issues that players have been complaining about since BWE2 and not even a response when we know for a fact that the developers actually read these forums.
Dev feedback? No Karl abandoned us. Here I am playing the same old build while scappers, chronos, and revs put me into 10 seconds of stun. But hey, at least I can’t burn people with RoF anymore!
The most annoying thing is that we still only have 1 playstyle/build. I’ve played ele alot, and I’ve mastered the d/d rotation. I know when to break rotation, but there’s a cap on what you can do with the ele. Even from day 1 revenants were destroying me despite me having way more experience as an ele than they had with revenant. Some of these new elite specs are just mopping the floor because the only build we have has limits. I can’t even escape from a rev with RtL + LF + FGS because they just shadowstep all over the place while getting passive evades.
We cried and cried and cried for a different play style BEFORE Tempest came out. What happened? “Hey look its frontline support.” Oh great, yeah we didn’t have access to that already or anything. Maybe next expac we will get the burst spec many of us were asking for, but as of now Karl is too shameful to visit the forums because he knows hes been pretending not to hear us for the last 3 months. Its pathetic honestly.
To be honest, at this point, I am more hoping they nerf the other elite specs down to the same level as tempest rather than buff tempest. I genuinely think that’s the core issue here.
The power creep across the board is starting to feel like anything without an elite is going to be inferior and with that, moving elementalist to the wayside, since our’s doesn’t compete.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
This is not about buffing tempest, the current defensive and offensive capabilities are decent enough, the problem is that when it comes to actually using them, they fall flat because of warhorn with the unusable and high recharge skills that do close to nothing and because of the new mechanic of overload. think about it like this…
Oh noes i have a pack of pocket raptors on me and i need a heal but i already used it and…oh here’s the solution, overload water and run away like scared little girl attunes to water…. waits….and waits… and waits …dies 1 second before the heal is available… this is pretty much my experience with tempest. It’s far worse in pvp where you have actual people trying to bring the smackdown, it’s either go bunker or go home there.
The tempest fails not because of how much damage it can do, overload fire and air are decent enough same for the defensive capabilities, but the problem lies with actually using them, when you want to use an overload, it’s not there, add an offhand weapon that has absurd cooldowns for very little impact in a fight and you see how this is going downhill. I’ve honestly given this some thought and from the live streams and what i have seen inside the game, each profession got an elite specialization that either gives a new mechanic or adds to the existing one, except for elementalist. It seems that they are trying to use the same core mechanic of switching attunements but instead of adding to it and shaping it into something unique, they have taken from it and crippled it completely by forcing players to wait before using a skill and then locking them out of the attunement if they dare to attune to something else. I am actually being punished if i want to use more than 1 attunement, only reason people even play it at the moment is because after using the same builds for ages, berserker staff or cantrip ele, they are bored to tears, resulting in them either trying tempest and going back to staff or cantrip eles or actually dumping the class completely because the alternatives are so much better, they have their own issues sure…but at least they can play them to some degree or another.
I could list what’s wrong with the tempest, but it has been done so many times already. It’s faster just to say: pretty much everything.
It’s weak, uninspired, unsynergistic, and it offers no new role.
It’s absolute garbage.
You can only get 1-shot while overloading so many times until you decide you’re never playing it again.
In PvP I play Scrapper now, it’s just way better; it doesn’t feel like you have to fight against the class mechanic, it all flows together.
For PvE I guess Tempest works sometimes since the AI is really bad.
I love my tempest so far, I have no issues with how it works other than maybe the Elite skill. I think a lot of you are trying to get the warhorn viable for PvP, which I have yet to PvP with tempest, but in PvE, it’s the best experience I’ve had thus far out of all the new elite specs.
I love my tempest so far, I have no issues with how it works other than maybe the Elite skill. I think a lot of you are trying to get the warhorn viable for PvP, which I have yet to PvP with tempest, but in PvE, it’s the best experience I’ve had thus far out of all the new elite specs.
I don’t understand why you would use Warhorn for PvE when with a scaff you can AoE 6-7k meteors, 10k ice spikes etc at range while at the same time having defensive ccs aoe support and good regen. Even with the Tempest trait line Staff is way better than warhorn.
I’ve had some decent success with full ascended celestial and air/arcana/tempest, s/d fresh air and glyph o storms in air attunement but it isn’t exactly something stellar.
Tempest and Arcane are kind of competing ideals, so it’s hard to justify using them together. Not to mention you lose out on all of the synergy of the other traitlines with either.
At the very least I’d like Anet to consider not to put Karl in charge of Ele elite specs in the future. Give us the people who were behind amazing specs like scrapper/Chrono/Herald. I don’t keep up with their names but from what I’ve played of Chrono and scrapper they are a heck of a lot more fun (viability aside, though both chrono and scrapper are very good).
At the very least I’d like Anet to consider not to put Karl in charge of Ele elite specs in the future. Give us the people who were behind amazing specs like scrapper/Chrono/Herald. I don’t keep up with their names but from what I’ve played of Chrono and scrapper they are a heck of a lot more fun (viability aside, though both chrono and scrapper are very good).
This is a little harsh, I’m sure he put time into Tempest and to read that would probably be a little soul crushing. Also, wasn’t Karl part of the Reaper as well,( I don’t follow the names either so I could be off here) which seems to be widely accepted.
I think they just need to explain what exactly they were trying to do with Tempest, because none of us are getting it. If what their answer is bad, well
At the very least I’d like Anet to consider not to put Karl in charge of Ele elite specs in the future. Give us the people who were behind amazing specs like scrapper/Chrono/Herald. I don’t keep up with their names but from what I’ve played of Chrono and scrapper they are a heck of a lot more fun (viability aside, though both chrono and scrapper are very good).
This is a little harsh, I’m sure he put time into Tempest and to read that would probably be a little soul crushing. Also, wasn’t Karl part of the Reaper as well,( I don’t follow the names either so I could be off here) which seems to be widely accepted.
I think they just need to explain what exactly they were trying to do with Tempest, because none of us are getting it. If what their answer is bad, well
Fair, I’m not asking to fire him though. I just don’t think he should be placed in charge of the next Ele spec. From what I can tell he was assigned multiple classes which includes daredevil, Reaper, Dragonhunter, and Tempest. As far as I can tell Dragonhunter and Reaper recieved the most changes and the most feedback from Karl. This is clearly evidenced with both of these specs being very good in their own ways despite outcries of “weak” for dragon hunter. A lot of work went into both these specs and it shows. He can do good work, but I think he works better on classes that are not jack of all trades or have several things to juggle like Mesmer shatters/illusions and Engineer’s…well everything. In general it feels like a huge mismatch between a developer who doesn’t understand elementalist, the amount of time they were allowed, and their personal interaction between the community and the development of the class.
Much less feedback was acted upon for Daredevil and much less for Tempest. Daredevil is somewhat rare but I have not seen it be called straight up bad (though correct me on this if I’m wrong.) Tempest clearly did not have as much discourse between the developers and the players and feels very much like a rushed spec going with warhorn skills that barely synergize and a base concept that would require making it OP before it is usable.
Take from it what you will but I’m not saying he should be fired or anything. I’m saying he should be tasked on things that fit his style of development and that does not include Elementalist. His silence and lack of BW3 change notes is telling, the community had to put together a list of changes when HoT launched while many other classes did not have to self make a list.
EDIT: I was wrong about who was in charge of what elite spec. Karl was only in charge of Daredevil Tempest and Dragonhunter. (Though if that is any indication…)
(edited by Senario.2038)
Reaper is Robert’s child.
Karl is Dragonhunter, Daredevil and Tempest.
Robert is Berserker, Reaper and Chronomancer.
Irenio is Scapper and Druid.
Roy is Revenant (and maybe some Scrapper and Druid?)
Karl is Dragonhunter, Daredevil and Tempest.
Robert is Berserker, Reaper and Chronomancer.
Irenio is Scapper and Druid.
Roy is Revenant (and maybe some Scrapper and Druid?)
Find the pattern :^)
Karl is Dragonhunter, Daredevil and Tempest.
Robert is Berserker, Reaper and Chronomancer.
Irenio is Scapper and Druid.
Roy is Revenant (and maybe some Scrapper and Druid?)Find the pattern :^)
Aaaah so I was wrong. Ok so lets see…Out of the 3 things Karl worked on…two are meh and one is unexpectedly good. (The one where he continuously talked to the community for feedback on, they got a lot of changes.)
Robert has Berserker (I think it just needs adrenaline numbers tweaked) which is meh, then Reaper which is pretty good, and Chronomancer which is AMAZING
Irenio is Scrapper/Druid (both really good though druid suffers from base design of the game not needing a healer. Still a good spec with changes to celestial form happening already.)
And Roy made Revenant which is great including Herald.
I was going off of who posted the feedback threads and I guess I made a few assumptions. That said…it really does feel like Karl did not have enough time to understand daredevil/Tempest compared to how much time he put into dragonhunter.
I’ve had some decent success with full ascended celestial and air/arcana/tempest, s/d fresh air and glyph o storms in air attunement but it isn’t exactly something stellar.
Tempest and Arcane are kind of competing ideals, so it’s hard to justify using them together. Not to mention you lose out on all of the synergy of the other traitlines with either.
You are completely right, but let’s face it, at the moment the only synergy you can properly get going with tempest is the water line, and i do not want to use the water line, i want to nuke critters like there’s no tomorrow. Why? because that’s what pleases my evil little heart. So i take arcana for Elemental Enchantment and Bountiful Power then add in air for fresh air and i spend 90% of the time bouncing between fire and air attunements. This is what i managed to get working for pve, for pvp i find tempest a waste of my time, i don’t like it, it’s not working as should, not even the overloads are there when you want or need them so i just stick to scepter/focus with water/earth/arcana build and try to annoy people from a distance since getting close to someone these days means they stomp all over me.
I think the community is honestly doing it’s very best to try to make use of the “elite” specialization, even coming up with completely out of the box thinking like dropping all your weapons and using only conjured weapons + overloads like @Maebe.6321 tried here. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tempest-PvE-Events-I-love-Overload-Conjurer/5702850
If you start crunching dps numbers the first thing you’ll realize is that Tempest is crippling you down. You’re better just equipping water or arcane with fire and air.