Guild Wars 2

Changed to remove conditions. Wonder how it will work…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

Maybe like when you attune to earth or something or every couple of earth attuned spells? I’m not sure I don’t play ele at all so…yeah…

TheLastNobody.8319:

Maybe like when you attune to earth or something or every couple of earth attuned spells? I’m not sure I don’t play ele at all so…yeah…

That would make it useless, especially when combined with Overload Earth.

This is how it will work – it will take the trait that was super good and make it – kinda not very good.

Its going to be some how aoe but how its going to work i am not sure. Ele is mostly an aoe class and often dose not have self only effect.

Reaper and condi Rev/Mesmer will heavily counter Tempest after this patch since they apply condis every second, and thus cleansing is meaningless against them. The condi meta will return xD.

Oh well, I’ll wait and see how the changes turn out.

The new diamond skin will probably be something like remove some conditions every 5sec when above 90%.

I’m thinking maybe full cleanse at a certain health threshold. Keep in mind it’s a grandmaster trait.

Ulion.5476:

The new diamond skin will probably be something like remove some conditions every 5sec when above 90%.

Which means a perma chill Reaper will have you chilled all the time.

I thought it would have been a more interesting change to have it pulse resistance while above 90% health, extra condi removal is fine I guess but just seems a little more bland, especially since it’s already such a big point for water already. Doesn’t really fit with earth.

Immune over 90% health was never a problem until these scrubs min / maxed in PvP and Condi builds stopped bringing burst to crack DS.

80% sure it’ll no longer be worth taking

It’s clearly gonna be a condition removal on Aura trait.

Boons cannot be removed above 90% threshold. Cleanse 1 condition every 5 seconds while affected by Protection or Stability.

Not sure if they will change diamond skin to give us resistance. That would be interesting but it would be like the current diamond skin. Only more effective since you can easily get back upto 90% hp for another pulse of resistance. The change to diamond skin is more of a counter to the current bunker meta. Reduce the effect of some of the bunker meta builds. The change will make diamond skin more effect for none bunker builds.

Not much to speculate about tbh. They’ll ruin it, easy as that.

Alekt.5803:

Boons cannot be removed above 90% threshold. Cleanse 1 condition every 5 seconds while affected by Protection or Stability.

When I read the blog, I likewise assumed it might be similar to Cleansing Water but with Protection. I do like the 5s ICD though and inclusion of Stability. This would give us a cleanse on Earth swap, as well as during overload and if traited, Auras while preventing protection spam (or pulsing stability) from removing too many condis.

Sidenote: Might we see some Tornado use with this trait?

Ulion.5476:

Not sure if they will change diamond skin to give us resistance. That would be interesting but it would be like the current diamond skin. Only more effective since you can easily get back upto 90% hp for another pulse of resistance. The change to diamond skin is more of a counter to the current bunker meta. Reduce the effect of some of the bunker meta builds. The change will make diamond skin more effect for none bunker builds.

I mean, it would be a lot different since as soon as you dipped under 90% you would start ticking a ton of damage, or be very debilitated by conditions like chill or immob, and is also more easily countered by boon removal. Either way, I just think it’s weird to put more condi removal when you have 1 line so dedicated to it anyway. But I guess other classes have condi removal spread throughout multiple lines, like necro.

Not sure if I’m really happy about it.

Had a 1v1 with a condi rev once. Managed to keep my HP above 90 % for a while, but the moment my HP dropped below that, the rev’s condi ripped through my HP in mere seconds (2 to 3 seconds) and I was down.

Hopefully some of the offensive abilities on certain classes gets looked at or fixed?

I was looking for some quality update on the warhorn skills,it will still fell so clunky

Still,even if one trait is gonna die,i cant wait for the scepter changes

I love dagger mainhand,but still would be nice see someting new,scepter seems a dead weapon at the moment^^

I think it’s safe to assume that whatever the new Diamond Skin ends up being, it won’t have the health threshold anymore. That difference will mean it matters in every fight for the entire fight. I would see this as a good thing.

Of course, if they do keep the health threshold, then I will mourn the loss of what could have been a good rework.

The trait will be nerfed. But with any Anet style nerf, expect there to be counter-buffs.

Perhaps

Remove 1 Condition Per Pulse When Health is Below 100%

Remove 2 Condition Per Pulse When Health is Below 80%

Remove 3 Condition Per Pulse When Health is Below 50%

You know what is ironic, before HoT we said, Diamond Skin was crap, a GM trait which was worthless under %90 HP and nobody used before and suggested to make something like engineer ‘Automated Response’ but they just laugh to us.

Now there one build people is using because it is not good but because no better candidate at Earth GM and now it will be changed.

Why because noooobs whine about it instead of learning how to deal with it.

GW2, one game that is balanced from the level of whine but not from facts.

I kinda agree with posthumecaver, enough whine and you can push Anet into changing anything in the game.

I do agree though that diamond skin needed a rework, but id rather it had a:

Pulse every 2 seconds to remove 1 condition above 85-90% hp, it gives enough time cleanse, while struggling with the conditions

On the other hands you will still lose hp, so its kinda win win, you will lose health but you will still be cleansing and fullfilling your role as a support who needs to stay alive to buff their team

The issue comes from the Anet inability to properly balance it, if the pulses are too frequent we would be op, if they are not the trait will be useless.. Since we can easily get bursted down as with all things the condi burst is a strong one..

I’m leaning towards the useless part, which means we will have to find a new build, which will make the tempest probably useless on the long run.

Since they are buffing an allready overpowered necro, il be switching to playing them instead of my main tempest in pvp.

Was nice till it lasted right guys?: )

They should get rid of this auto trait all.

This game need for a very long time with the amount of mindless AOE and condi spam the trait that makes flat reductions to the AOE damage and condi damage.

Now scrapper got %20 condi damage reduction why the hell Ele (or the other classes, Warrior I am looking to you) can’t get it I have no idea.

And all the other MMO that I play have AOE damage reduction skill, why can’t GW2 get one, it is a mind boggling question if you think the level of AOE spam in the PVP.

Glacial.9516:

Alekt.5803:

Boons cannot be removed above 90% threshold. Cleanse 1 condition every 5 seconds while affected by Protection or Stability.

When I read the blog, I likewise assumed it might be similar to Cleansing Water but with Protection. I do like the 5s ICD though and inclusion of Stability. This would give us a cleanse on Earth swap, as well as during overload and if traited, Auras while preventing protection spam (or pulsing stability) from removing too many condis.

Sidenote: Might we see some Tornado use with this trait?

I realize that I have not thought of every amazing implications my idea had. Tornado? Hell yeah.

posthumecaver.6473:

You know what is ironic, before HoT we said, Diamond Skin was crap, a GM trait which was worthless under %90 HP and nobody used before and suggested to make something like engineer ‘Automated Response’ but they just laugh to us.

Now there one build people is using because it is not good but because no better candidate at Earth GM and now it will be changed.

Why because noooobs whine about it instead of learning how to deal with it.

GW2, one game that is balanced from the level of whine but not from facts.

I used diamond skin pre-hot, and I knew from beta that DS would be a thing. It’s because Tempest got so many new ways of healing without cast-times.

Alekt.5803:

posthumecaver.6473:

You know what is ironic, before HoT we said, Diamond Skin was crap, a GM trait which was worthless under %90 HP and nobody used before and suggested to make something like engineer ‘Automated Response’ but they just laugh to us.

Now there one build people is using because it is not good but because no better candidate at Earth GM and now it will be changed.

Why because noooobs whine about it instead of learning how to deal with it.

GW2, one game that is balanced from the level of whine but not from facts.

I used diamond skin pre-hot, and I knew from beta that DS would be a thing. It’s because Tempest got so many new ways of healing without cast-times.

There are always exceptions to the rules but they are still exceptions…..

I’ll be happy with almost any change as long as the trait won’t be as situational as DS.

Why are so many people against a rework of this trait? I’m withholding expectations because it could obviously end up being terrible, but seriously, there is no excuse for diamond skin to remain such a terribly designed trait.

Who actually likes that health threshold?

It’s fun in pve to be able to stand on fields that apply conditions and be unaffected

All I see is people saying “They will ruin it, it’s as simple as that”

Honestly. They HAVE to ruin it.

I play every class except Warrior and as someone who actually plays Tempest quite a bit in SPvP….I can easily say Diamond Skin is the best trait out of any class, period.

I’m hoping it’s still viable after the nerf…but make no mistake, it has to be nerfed.

Luclinraider.2317:

All I see is people saying “They will ruin it, it’s as simple as that”

Honestly. They HAVE to ruin it.

I play every class except Warrior and as someone who actually plays Tempest quite a bit in SPvP….I can easily say Diamond Skin is the best trait out of any class, period.

I’m hoping it’s still viable after the nerf…but make no mistake, it has to be nerfed.

It really isn’t. A trait that is propped up by tempest’s overwhelming healing isn’t that great. They had to make it usable outside of pure sustain builds.

it has very strong synergy with extreme sustain and armor
very weak otherwise. forces eles into tanky sustain builds

Shadowflare.2759:

Luclinraider.2317:

All I see is people saying “They will ruin it, it’s as simple as that”

Honestly. They HAVE to ruin it.

I play every class except Warrior and as someone who actually plays Tempest quite a bit in SPvP….I can easily say Diamond Skin is the best trait out of any class, period.

I’m hoping it’s still viable after the nerf…but make no mistake, it has to be nerfed.

It really isn’t. A trait that is propped up by tempest’s overwhelming healing isn’t that great. They had to make it usable outside of pure sustain builds.

I’ve got a feeling that’s exactly what this rework will do.

I can be completely wrong on this, but my prediction is that the health threshold has gone away entirely, potentially opening up the trait to use in almost all play situations in any fight where conditions are a factor.

I say “potentially” because, other than knowing it cleanses conditions, we still know nothing about it. If it’s just “remove 1 condition every 10 seconds”, it’s crap while still doing exactly what ANet has told us it will do.

Honestly, I have no idea at this point where they will take it. There’s no lack of possibilities for sure, but there are also quite a few that would lock builds even more to use it. For example, if it were “remove a condition whenever you apply an aura,” wouldn’t that just reinforce the current Earth/Water/Tempest build rather than give some variety? Likewise if it were “whenever you remove a condition, remove an additional one,” wouldn’t that still lock you into using Water Magic?

Gain 3 seconds of resistance when hit with a condition above 90% health. 10 sec ICD.

Calling it.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Gain 3 seconds of resistance when hit with a condition above 90% health. 10 sec ICD.

Calling it.

It’s not going to be condition avoidance; it’s going to be removal. And forget about health threshold.

What makes me sick is not that they are going change it, the moment it was introduced there were lots of people in these forums told that was a crap trait and should be changed.

2 years long we speak to wall, all reasonable arguments about it was ignored.

Now it will be changed, why because so many people whine about it.

It is nice to know how ANet balance its game.

We have no scientific way to define balance so we just look to the whine level.

It makes such a good impression about the future of this game.

Luclinraider.2317:

All I see is people saying “They will ruin it, it’s as simple as that”

Honestly. They HAVE to ruin it.

I play every class except Warrior and as someone who actually plays Tempest quite a bit in SPvP….I can easily say Diamond Skin is the best trait out of any class, period.

I’m hoping it’s still viable after the nerf…but make no mistake, it has to be nerfed.

Well I also play Tempest quite a bit, and I can easily say it’s one of the worst grandmaster traits in the entire game. It’s absolutely pathetic on its own, therefor needs to be backed upped by a decent amount of toughness, high protection uptime + passive healing (regeneration & soothing mist) as well as semi-active healing (elemental bastion), and even then it stops working as soon as some amount of power damage gets involved.

If anything, the fact it’s still being used (being the go-to earth gm trait even) should tell you something about the state of conditions tbh, especially considering diamond skin has to actually compete with stone heart, which is one of the most awesome traits the class has access to. Conditions are running rampage, and seeing a build that already has MASSIVE condition removal still opting for diamond skin instead of stone heart should be an alarming indicator that there’s something wrong with conditions, not diamond skin.

These guys have no business fiddling with diamond skin before they start getting conditions right. Conditions are getting applied at rates far superior to anything that cleanses them, and therefor offer no counterplay other than 100% avoidance for classes/builds that are naturally susceptible to them (ele being the prime example of this).

Furthermore, sPvP isn’t even the worst offender here, as it lacks certain options that push conditions completely over the line. Condition builds running full dire stats, perplexity runes + condition duration food are pure cancer in WvW roaming, and diamond skin is quite literally the only thing able to beat them. I know Karl & co do not give a single kitten about WvW, but some players still do (a lot more previously did), and it might not be the best of ideas to ruin that already dying game mode even more by elevating dire perplexity builds back to godmode status, when they claim to have some ‘big’ WvW things in the pipeline.

Don’t get me wrong here: Yes, diamond skin is a terrible design, I always said that and I still do – see my post in a different thread some months ago:

makku.2508:

It’s super cheesy. An absolute waste of a trait against anything running a bare minimum of power, and an auto-win against anything that completely skips power in favor of condition damage.

In a well designed game featuring a vague idea of balance, I’d say get rid of this BS and rework it into something useful. In a game like GW2 it absolutely has its place tho. Nothing better than countering their cheese with your own cheese.
Not particularly beneficial for the overall health of the game, but I guess that idea has been ripped apart, set on fire and thrown out the window long ago in GW2.

Furthermore, the current tempest meta (aura/cleanse/heal bot) is an absolute plague and should not exist in the game.

BUT before they start nerf.. err.. working on that, they need to fix the things that actually caused this mess, because otherwise they will again do what they’ve done (wrong) for years: Forcing classes into the undesired meta build even more because the collateral damage done to the non-meta builds hurt them even more than the meta one.
I enjoy running a fresh air d/f tempest build that doesn’t abuse soldier runes, which is not only much more fun to play than water+earth, but also a lot more healthy for the game; yet this build will fall apart the second they trash diamond skin, because it will then get absolutely rekt by condition abuse, so I’ll be forced into water + soldier runes as well just to have a shot a surviving against them. This seems pretty odd considering their claims of build diversity being one of their highest priorities, and is also the reason I’m not particularly excited for the upcoming changes; Yes, please rework diamond skin into something decent, and yes please remove aura/cleanse/heal bot tempest from the game, but don’t do so before you acutally fixed the root cause for that meta build, because otherwise collateral damage done to the non-meta builds will force us into the meta build even more.

Good posting makku. I also always fear the collateral damage to non meta builds.
I have a lot of fun playing out of meta. I use Fire/earth/tempest with wanderer and soldiers. I hated the dependence from water traitline since day one and don´t spec in it. It works well for me. I can´t bring down a DS bunker tempest. I have to disengage unless i need to defend becaus this fight are usually near endless with DS having the better cards.
And i run stoneskin. Its my most loved trait i did the whole build around it. The most dangerous enemy for me seems condi reaper …. In WvW condi mesmer is a thing. You named it. Perplexity dire PU mesmer is a pain for me.
For bunkering i say a bunker should hold 1:2 a while. He usually can´t bring down oponets fast even 1:1 will last long but if build for defence you must hold 1:2 or defence will be useless.

Diamond Skin RIP 1.26.16

Just need to adapt, I have my new ele build ready … more than the demise of the ele, is the demise of the auramancer. I play only ele and do pvp on a daily basis. Not scared with the change, my new build could be even better since doesn’t count on the 90% threshold, downside is by not choosing earth, perma protection goes away, compensate on a different way tho.

Lose 1 condition every 10 seconds ofcourse

Either way it may make it better, if it’s something that is active all the time.

Ranger gradmaster trait in wilderness survival – empathic bond: every 10 seconds, 3 conditions are transfered to your pet. (Doesn’t work if your pet is dead or out of range)

New diamond skin: every 10 seconds, 3 conditions are transfered to a nearby ally. (Doesn’t work if your only ally is dead or out of range)

Please make it happen <3

almost forgot…

/sarcasm off

That makes me picture two Elementalists playing ‘Hot potato’ with conditions.

That would be fun haha. 2v2 Ele + Reaper will be so imba.

haha, “Only works if you have a summoned elemental, reduces cooldown on all summons by 20%”

Flat -20% condi duration would propably the easiest thing to implement …..

and by far the most useless

But it feels like happening :-/