Guild Wars 2

It only takes a couple of attacks to get below 90%

The key to your entire post is summed up when you said, “For a condition Necro.” Either stop playing full condition, or don’t complain when an Ele has the upper hand.

Also, your suggestion doesn’t make much sense considering once you’re at 10-20% health, the conditions will already be applied and immunity to any further conditions will be trivial.

Having been testing diamond skin Ele’s for several months now, I can say that fighting a condi Necro is no easy task. Yes, I can generally beat up the Necro a fair amount before he drops me below 90% but once he does, I am literally toast. To beat pure condi necros I have to almost play perfectly against the class. If I make one mistake and my hp drops, it’s over.

The sum things up, I don’t believe diamond skin needs a change. Running diamond skin in the first place means give up many important traits for the Ele, and it only gives a slight front loaded advantage against most condi specs. It’s only the pure condi specs that have an issue and they shouldn’t complain because, if they play their cards right, even they can beat the Ele.

condi necro is as cheesy as a stealth spamming thief. We have a trait specifically designed to counter your cheese and you want it nerfed… Now if only we had a trait to counter thieves as well instead of having to build our intire traitlines around the thought of countering condi necros and stealthy thieves.

Pls do not change diamond skin. It allows an ele to actually contribute to his team. Before the skin it was just necros filling an entire team dropping red circles in front of any entrance or fight. Now a necro has to actually think about how he can play rather than just pressing the same button over and over.

Inkie

Maybe you should try carrion armor instead of full dire or full rabid or a mix of those two, then maybe your build will be more well rounded. Anyways diamond skin as a trait is fine.

I don’t mind how the diamond skin trait works but I do think there should be some kind of animation around the elementalist letting others know the trait has been selected and is active.

I play necro roaming and i haven’t problem vs diamond skin. Sure is harder and the Ele can self heal a lot. But if you don’t waste your condi nuke and you use thing like staff 4, scepter 3 or LB you can get that 10% health. Then you nuke and the ele is in big trouble.

Imo, Diamond skin is almost useless. 10% health is pretty easy to drop.

sirloin: and if we put an Ele not running Diamond Skin in a fight with your condi necro... will you not wipe the floor with them?

If you’ve gone all-out 100% into maxing out one aspect of a build, of course it’s going to be more likely to have hard counters - just as it’s much more likely to be a hard counter to certain other builds.

Also... bring Flesh Golem, use Charge when the Ele leaves water attunement, condibomb them. Hooray.

1. 1v1 is irrelevant.
2. If you run a one-trick-pony build and someone counters your one trick, it’s your own fault.

Sirloin, you’re like a kid who eats his cake and then complains because he doesn’t have it anymore.

You can’t go 100% condition and expect to win against everything. The trait is fine. Your build is not.

If he talks about WvW, than condition necros cant kill anything 1v1 because everyone can just walk away.

Zomg trait so OP that no meta build in WvW or SPvP uses it defs bad for pvp pls nerf.

I agree that Diamond Skin should be changed. It’s either OP (against the odd rabid condi spammers) or totally useless (against everyting else). I’d rather have a more well-rounded GM trait, not a “hardcounter against 1%” trait.

I could care less what happens to diamond skin. Yes it is a one trick pony, no I don’t frequently use it, but it makes me laugh when necros cry about it.

Man how long did I play when eles were awful for that string of like 8 months after all those nerfs and the final RTL nerf where every necro I saw salivated at seeing an elementalist. People lined up in literal lines to fight me. They were necros. Fearmancer could 100% win on any ele in those days.

Call it vindictive, but I love knowing that if I see someone I remember, I can have them fight any ele with diamond skin and most likely lose.

I’ll just also note, that most necromancers aren’t that great.. The class is limiting skill wise, so people who only play necros don’t seem to be incredible players. That’s just my observation.

sirloin.9145:

1. This is about one trait . A trait that says: Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above 90%. Its beyond me that any class should have a trait like this that removes certain builds completely.

And your build removed a certain class completely for long enough, and still completely destroys “certain builds” (some Ele, some not).

2. I’m not just using one build and one class (Necro ain’t my main). And i have never come across a more punishing trait like diamond skin.

If you can’t deal with it, it’s your skill level or ignorance that is the problem, not the trait. People have suggested ways in this thread to deal with it as condi Necro (that work), and there’s been plenty of discussion elsewhere about it too (from various classes who run condi builds – consensus is that the trait isn’t worth taking most of the time, and certainly isn’t any more broken than those few builds it hard-counters.

If people can’t see y this trait is bad for pvp u aint pvp players.
Last post from me.

I ran it for long enough. I did a (very) short stint again after the feature patch. In PvP.

How this went:
It was great when new, because nobody knew how to deal with it. Then people learned its really significant weakness – that if the DS Ele brings cleanse, they’re going to do no damage, and if they don’t bring cleanse, they’re really easy to kill. Ta-da!

Therefore fearmancer / full condi is a hard counter to a lot of Ele Builds.

Well I wouldnt mind this trait being deactivated, cause I am not running it and I know why.
And afaik the number of elementalists running it is very low.

And then this trait only helps in a one on one against a condition necro only, a very situational trait.

What annoys me, elementalist is finally a class you dont get laughed at or even flamed for playing it in PvP(since feature patch), before Elementalist was totally underpowered for about 8 months.
I still played it (in hot joins though) and stood my ground against most players.

And now that Elementalist is finally in a good position again, for good ppl even in a very good position (celestial DD can be quite strong in the right hands)
PPL start to cry again: nerf nerf nerf

Duran.3196:

And now that Elementalist is finally in a good position again, for good ppl even in a very good position (celestial DD can be quite strong in the right hands)
PPL start to cry again: nerf nerf nerf

Nah, condi Necromancers who can’t adapt have been moaning about this trait since it was first announced.

So have many other people, often citing pretty good reasons (such as ‘it sucks’), but those who complain most consistently and have the weakest arguments are usually those condi-Necro-mains.

sirloin.9145:

Diamond skin needs a change. For a condition necro it’s impossible to kill a dimond skin elementalist 1v1. + almost all cc from a necro is condition based and whit hardly any mobility u cant do anything, just stand there and die. Its even hard for power necros since like i said, cc comes from conditions (chills, immobilize, fear, blinds) nothing will work untill u get your target below 90% health. And since the elementalist has the best mobility they have a HUGE advantage and will remove a huge chunk of your health before the necro really can start the fight.
If they do it like this instead “conditions cannot be applied when the elementalist drops below 10-20% health” the fights would be more skillful and fun.

It’s very true, and I agree with this completely. It sucks to have your build completely negated by just one trait. I really hope they change it to something else one day so that Rabid builds aren’t just stone cold useless by themselves against a Diamond Skin Ele.

Power bunkers lack the damage to kill anything more durable than a glass cannon and this has been accepted as a weakness of focusing too heavily on one aspect of combat to the exclusion of all others since day 1. Why do you think it’s so unfair that it’s possible for condi bunkers to have the same problem?

All I have to say is if you go full condition, it’s your own fault. Never go full condition.

and change your build.

DS is fine as it is.

sirloin.9145:

Fine, post a video. Duel 1v1 with 2 equally good players 1 condi specd necro and a elementalist with diamond skin and see how much hp the elementalist will have at the end. Good luck finding a necro that wins.
And no, i don’t think there should be a trait that makes it impossible for a full condition spect necro to have chance of winning a fight.
And a immunity at 10-20% those make sense, then it will come to skill. At the time before the elementalist drops below the set % the necro needs to apply alot of conditions to kill his opponent and the ele needs to time his condition removals (skills).
I’m not saying that a condition spec shall have the upper hand against a condition removal spec, i’m just saying they shall have a chance.
Warriors for example with full condition removal specs has the upper hand on condition builds (and they should with a counter build). But they actually need to time there removals (Berserker Stance etc) to win, that takes it down to skills.
“It only takes a couple of attacks to get below 90%” whit a eleis water fields and heals it don’t, not whit a condition build if u dont play extremely bad.

twitch.tv/gw2ascii, this guy runs a terrormancer condi build and overcomes diamond skin ele’s just fine, in fact I bet he could kill 2-3 at a time XD. as I posted above he uses carrion armor and a beserker staff just to counter condi immunity phases of opponents. this is the kind of well rounded build that does well vs the entire field.

cheese.4739:

Nah, condi Necromancers who can’t adapt have been moaning about this trait since it was first announced.

I know.
And I have been defending it ever since.

Though I personally dont like this trait, cause I ever said balancing that trait is really hard.
While I think with a 90% life threshold it is in fact very weak (considerung what you have to sacrifice and the very limited application), a threshold of 80% would be very OP.

Sirloin, I can understand why you’re complaining. When they announced the new traits, a lot of Eles actually said, myself included, that the trait would be either OP, or pretty useless. The trait simply is too passive. Yes, I know as a Condimancer, the trait can give you a pretty rough time, especially D/D Eles with Healing Power as it scales well with the Elementalist.

A lot of us gave our opinion about this trait, ANet should know by now that the Trait need a bit of tweaking, so full condition specs can have a bit more of a counter play against DS Eles. It is honestly not our fault, as a lot of us ( I think? ) just didn’t want this trait ( I honestly know a lot of people, myself included ). And honestly, as a game that’s supposed to be balance around 5v5, DS really is a 1v1 trait. No way you can keep your health higher than 90% for awhile while facing a few opponents. We’re really not to blame.

And the game is also promoted like this: Play the way you wan’t ! So telling people not to spec full condi is not an excuse.

Less passive, more active!

Just my 2c.

I regard diamond skin as punishment for people who want to play cheese condi spamming classes.

If you say anything against them all you get is ‘You should bring more condi clears lol! L2P!!!!’

Suddenly you’re faced with an ability where all you have to achieve is 1800 damage (approx), to negate it and you can’t do that? Playing cheese specs makes you lazy, this is what your actual problem is.

Diamond skin is fine as is, FYI, i think that it should be 80% or 85% since ele has such low HP.

Wranglerist.5489:

Less passive, more active!

But isn’t the primary damage output for condi Necromancers an easy-to-hit-with autoattack? And passive procs?

If anything, DS makes everything more active – DS Ele has to maintain that high health through careful management of healing abilities (overheal too much and you might find yourself out of skills when the real damage comes), and condi Necro has to time skills well to take down the Ele’s health and burst conditions onto them while they’re below the threshold.

1. Press Death Shroud.
2. Cast Life Blast. One single hit within 600 will take an ele with 2.8k armor below 90%, even if you are full condi.
3. Cast terror and/or load your condi’s.

The only back and forth you should have is trying to do this while water attunement is on lockout.

In the mean time, sit down and think about how weak almost every class is in the game when up against a condi necro. You hard counter everyone. Allah forbid someone hard counters you back.

Raven.9603:

1. Press Death Shroud.
2. Cast Life Blast. One single hit within 600 will take an ele with 2.8k armor below 90%, even if you are full condi.
3. Cast terror and/or load your condi’s.

The only back and forth you should have is trying to do this while water attunement is on lockout.

In the mean time, sit down and think about how weak almost every class is in the game when up against a condi necro. You hard counter everyone. Allah forbid someone hard counters you back.

IT HARDCOUNTERS an entire profession (power necros is a joke right now) and telling people they should crazy outplay a diamond skin ele because yes forcing him to lock water WHEN HE DOES NOT NEED TO HEAL ANYTHING because of no condition applied is almost impossible. The elementalist on the other side does not need to do anything, especially with condi reduction food in WvW.

QQ my passive easymode build got countered pls nerf so I don’t have to think when I play.

All rabid and dire do is make your already easy wins against virtually every other build in the game go a little faster. Condi hate exists, try thinking about how to fight it instead of just stacking more condi then crying when it doesn’t work.

Coldtart.4785:

QQ my passive easymode build got countered pls nerf so I don’t have to think when I play.

All rabid and dire do is make your already easy wins against virtually every other build in the game go a little faster. Condi hate exists, try thinking about how to fight it instead of just stacking more condi then crying when it doesn’t work.

QQ passive easy mode diamond skin build complains about easy mode. Also their is no difference between stacking condi and stacking normal damage. Condi damage is acctually easier to negate if you dont play a engineer.

sirloin.9145:

For a condition necro

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Renny.6571:

sirloin.9145:

For a condition necro

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I approve of this laugh.

Mayama.1854:

Coldtart.4785:

QQ my passive easymode build got countered pls nerf so I don’t have to think when I play.

All rabid and dire do is make your already easy wins against virtually every other build in the game go a little faster. Condi hate exists, try thinking about how to fight it instead of just stacking more condi then crying when it doesn’t work.

QQ passive easy mode diamond skin build complains about easy mode. Also their is no difference between stacking condi and stacking normal damage. Condi damage is acctually easier to negate if you dont play a engineer.

All three of these sentences are untrue…

I agree that it needs to change. Diamond Skin is actually a terrible Grandmaster for an Elementalist that is only useful when you are 1v1ing Condi builds. I never see people in WvW or sPvP run this .... ever.

Everywhere else it is completely useless. I agree there shouldn’t be 100% hard counters out there. But this trait is actually bad and poorly designed.

Maybe something like, all damage conditions are cleared when attuning to earth.

killahmayne.9518:

Everywhere else it is completely useless.

Oi! It lets you do the chilling part of Goemm’s Lab really easily since the condition doesn’t affect you (which would both chill you and put you in combat). Not having to time some jumps for that jumping puzzle is great!!!

(there are actually a few other PvE places where it’s useful – like world bosses that spam fear – but yeah it’s not practical to take with you in the open world compared to just about anything else)

‘Condi is easier to negate than direct damage’

Do you enjoy being wrong?

Coldtart.4785:

‘Condi is easier to negate than direct damage’

Do you enjoy being wrong?

Guardians and necros in general, water eles, warriors that spec for it. Engis and Focus eles have tons of utility to counter conditions because almost all condi specs are ranged in the current meta. Bunker rangers can basicaly ignore condi pressure from one enemy. Do I need to continue? People just dont know when to back of, like having 7stacks of bleed and burning on them and think “oh im over 50% hp it will be fine”…

… and because we are here in the ele forum, the typical celestial D/D meta build can easily deal with condi pressure. If you run zerker staff in WvW and get spammed to death by bleeds etc. its not the fault of condition damage its because your spec isnt usefull outside of zerg Vs. zerg.

Power builds lose massive proportions of their damage when their cooldowns are negated and ranged power builds do weak damage even when they land everything.

A condi necro needs only its 900 range, instant-hit auto attack to do the same level of damage as a melee power weapon that lands its cooldowns, while ignoring armour entirely and only being able to be mitigated by condi clears. The power weapon can be mitigated by prot, weakness, dodging cooldowns and heals due to lack of poison.

I drummed up the scrubbiest condi necro build I could and found that one auto chain that procs torment sigil and one instance of barbed precision would do around 7400 damage, which can only be countered by 3 condi clears. For a power build to hit this hard with its auto would essentially require full zerk with fire+air.

Coldtart.4785:

Power builds lose massive proportions of their damage when their cooldowns are negated and ranged power builds do weak damage even when they land everything.

Thats completly untrue, I just throw 2 out two examples that I personaly play alot. Fresh air scepter eles have insane burst that is more or less unavoidable because its instant and very good damage sustain. A proper power necro crits for around 3,5k per autoattacck in death shroud at 1200 range and has over 50% crit chance. You can do that every 7 seconds for a long time so it doesnt matter if half the hits are blocked or dodged. Thats without fire/air sigil btw.

About sigils of course you use crit sigils why shouldnt you use them in a power build. Condi specs use condi duration runes, power specs use crit sigils. Condi damage is lower in general, even if you refuse to believe it. Its actually one third lower than what a power spec pushes out with equal stats.

About poison, alot of power builds use sigil of doom too or apply poison with their attacks especially thieves , necros and engis its not something only condi specs can use. Condi clear removes the condi damage completly, speced for it you have ZERO problems with condi pressure from one enemy if you play a necro, guardian, warrior or ele. If you prefer to run full zerker without condi clear its your own fault. Just look at the current meta their isnt a single condi tank in any competitive top team. The only type of condi spec you find are celestial hyprid specs and those usually do more power than condi damage.

After some more math-hammer I discovered what effect a carrion condi necro can have on diamond skin.

The effective damage of a carrion condi necro with a zerk staff life blasting with sigil of air proccing is 4027. The effective hp of a celestial diamond skin ele is 28503. This is with both using full ascended, which favours the celestial ele more than the carrion necro. That’s 14.1% of the ele’s hp in one attack.

Not an auto-win but far from being hard-countered.

So you want to nerf a trait that isnt very reliable. Hmm. Let me consider. Errr, no. If anything Diamond skin should be somewhere in the range of 80%. Meaning a 20k hp ele would require atleast 4k of direct damage which isnt really hard to do in wvw.

Fuzzion.2504:

So you want to nerf a trait that isnt very reliable. Hmm. Let me consider. Errr, no. If anything Diamond skin should be somewhere in the range of 80%. Meaning a 20k hp ele would require atleast 4k of direct damage which isnt really hard to do in wvw.

Because the ele will never heal, especially if with an ele

Mayama.1854:

Fuzzion.2504:

So you want to nerf a trait that isnt very reliable. Hmm. Let me consider. Errr, no. If anything Diamond skin should be somewhere in the range of 80%. Meaning a 20k hp ele would require atleast 4k of direct damage which isnt really hard to do in wvw.

Because the ele will never heal, especially if with an ele

Sure /15 chars