Guild Wars 2

Wolfric.9380:

even 5s fireballing is massiv. Its AOE and can kill a target alone. This is six shots for up to 3k on crit each. The crit chance would be 70-80% so at least 4 full hits. If not dodged this is about 15k damage. So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

With the announced buff, Overload fire does 19k damage with carrion amulet. It’s hardly burst though.

Wolfric.9380:

even 5s fireballing is massiv. Its AOE and can kill a target alone. This is six shots for up to 3k on crit each. The crit chance would be 70-80% so at least 4 full hits. If not dodged this is about 15k damage. So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

Faulty thinking, IMO.

For one, why would a skill have to do the amount of damage you are locked out of an attunement? Do you not see the illogical thinking behind that? Because, even though the attunement goes on 20sec cooldown, you still can stay in that attunement and use the skills you’re comparing it to.

And for two, you can still cast other stuff while the effect is going on, unlike if you use fireball over and over and over for 20 seconds…doing that locks you into casting fireball and not much else…but overload is suppose to equate to 20sec of fireball casting?…while you can still cast fireball and other skills?

Valento.9852:

IMO Overloads should focus on CC, or periodic buffs, maybe some harmful tempest-specific damaging PBAoE buffs or auras, like the Pulmonary stuff thieves are getting with Daredevil spec. There is just so much potential if they rework actual overloads’ execution…

Agreed. I think it’d be a neat trait to choose from if said trait gave you the ability to self-interrupt your overload cast in exchange for an AoE CC effect! It would make the spec a true melee support character, capable of providing boons as well as CC to keep themselves alive.

But there are alot of other types of changes they could make to the overloads to do accomplish what they want with the spec. It’s interesting to see the potential but hopefully they decide to do something interesting with it.

@Leo G: I did´t talk about the recharge time. Just 5s channel time using ONLY fireball.
On my power build base damage of fireball against another zerker is about 1k and over 200% krit damage which can hit for up to 15k.
Naturaly in 5s i am trough at least two elements which will add lots of other effects.

The number changes for 2. beta might be OK.
Don´t forget tempest is designed as a team spec. Yes the traits don´t look very tempting and overcharges too risky, but paired with a gurdian this can get a threat.
If traits are a bit reworked tempest would work. Yes the mechanic is breaking with ele but with condi cleanse on rebound (or auras) and base speed you can do shout builds.

It wouldn’t matter how much they buff overloads, it’s still a D/D Ele in disguise. Duplicating an existing role is stupid.

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Valento.9852:

Jski.6180:

The overload effect it self not so much but the other effects you can get when overloading or after you overload yes. So auras and -100% movement condition duration. Now only if they would add a bit more to the overload it self i love to see fields or more finishers.

But overloads are the first issue with tempests. Shortly after we got a bunch of useless/non-synergic/non-worthy traits. Other elite specs get a lot of yummy and hard-to-choose traits, and we get a lot of useless traits and we have to strive for the least worse among them all.

The thing is for the most part overloads are pure add on with nothing lost in game play (you lose a line most likely a dmg line but that dose not changes game play all that much). They do work with other skills and effects but more of after the use and not the overload it self. Its a lot like getting a shout that dose nothing but still is effect by runes that remove conditions. For tempest its the auras mostly that you can get from overloading that makes it worth it.

Tempest is the true aura maser more so then ele. But that about all overloading and tempest is going to do with effectiveness that why i suggest adding fields to overload (earthing getting a pulsing blast no earth field yet!) and standardization there cast time. This will make overloads even if they fail to go off usable for the team as a field maker so fire will be fire air would be lighting and water will be water or ice. All on there own weak becuse tempest will have a hard time using them but in a pt very powerful becuse the pt can use them.

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

The thing is ppl talk about the game type that best fits there argument at the time so the counter point of view going to be staff ele are bad at spvp (all though they are good at every thing else in the game). What needs to be done is to have a definer in the OP what game type they are talking about i think that will clear up a lot about tempest and ele talks. (i come from the point of view of wvw spvp from my point of view more about team work then builds if your doing random group spvp you already lost.)

So overloads work in pve because lol pve being hard and wvw (aoe is king in wvw) it dose not work well in spvp aoe not as good there but you can still build a team on the ideal of the tempest every being alone. So you can make it work if you want to.

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

Malchior.5732:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

It dose if you do not lose much or nothing from the base ele class. Tempest for the most part is an ele with the abitly to use WH if they want and shouts and gets 4 new skills that ele cant use. The only thing tempest loses from ele is one line most likely a dmg line such as air or fire (if your going tempest your going support or/and tankly your not going dmg and if you are your comply missing the point of tempest.)

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

It dose if you do not lose much or nothing from the base ele class. Tempest for the most part is an ele with the abitly to use WH if they want and shouts and gets 4 new skills that ele cant use. The only thing tempest loses from ele is one line most likely a dmg line such as air or fire (if your going tempest your going support or/and tankly your not going dmg and if you are your comply missing the point of tempest.)

We’ve been through this. You DO lose a lot. You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.
The tempest line literally gives you nothing worthwhile.

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

It dose if you do not lose much or nothing from the base ele class. Tempest for the most part is an ele with the abitly to use WH if they want and shouts and gets 4 new skills that ele cant use. The only thing tempest loses from ele is one line most likely a dmg line such as air or fire (if your going tempest your going support or/and tankly your not going dmg and if you are your comply missing the point of tempest.)

We’ve been through this. You DO lose a lot. You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.
The tempest line literally gives you nothing worthwhile.

You cant lose all of that you only lose one thing. Most likely you lose arcain something that most ele are moving away from as is in WVW or pve Spvp not really an issue for my point of view.
From the point of view of stander d/d ele (arcain air water) D/d tempest water air aura build will be a good support class in wvw and pve still pve lol it may even work in spvp but only with a team build for it. Most d/d ele do not run earth for stone hart staff eles do but you give up something like stone hart for high def when you have protection and hard counter soft cc.
All though i would not mind seeing an aura staff ele build (tempest water air staff ele would be nice). Only if blinding ash icd was per person and not per burn abitly then fire would be better for air (fire gives you fire aura ever 10 sec about and if it blinds every one who hits the ppl with this aura it would add up to good self def and group def every other attk. So air is the best chose for more lightning aura for some def and more dmg / weakness.

Just to clarify, because I’m not going to continue any further with you, the word “either” means something. In the sentence “You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.” what is being said is that you will lose AT LEAST ONE of these things; pointing out that losing any of these is not worth it just to take the Tempest line because it sucks so bad.

Malchior.5732:

Just to clarify, because I’m not going to continue any further with you, the word “either” means something. In the sentence “You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.” what is being said is that you will lose AT LEAST ONE of these things; pointing out that losing any of these is not worth it just to take the Tempest line because it sucks so bad.

See i do not think tempest line is bad in that it gives you 4 new skills a means of getting protection with out needing to swap to earth or go into earth line, it gives you a -100% movement condition duration and a full clear if you have them on you, it gives you 2 new aura ability where the other lines just have one. AoE stun braking is nice too you get from this line both as a passive shout and as a wepon chose (wh). It also gives you the abitly to use shouts something comply new to ele.

The big thing is its a line for support and tanklyness its not for dmg.

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

The thing is ppl talk about the game type that best fits there argument at the time so the counter point of view going to be staff ele are bad at spvp (all though they are good at every thing else in the game). What needs to be done is to have a definer in the OP what game type they are talking about i think that will clear up a lot about tempest and ele talks. (i come from the point of view of wvw spvp from my point of view more about team work then builds if your doing random group spvp you already lost.)

So overloads work in pve because lol pve being hard and wvw (aoe is king in wvw) it dose not work well in spvp aoe not as good there but you can still build a team on the ideal of the tempest every being alone. So you can make it work if you want to.

Ele is god tier everywhere.

Staff ele for pve/wvw.

D/D ele god tier in spvp/WvW roaming.

There’s not a single game format where the ele isn’t the best class ingame. What did you expect, a further upgrade to a broken class? If you want the tempest to be good, you either assign them a special niche that doesn’t make them more powerful than they already are.

Or you nerf the base ele and make it so the tempest brings the ele back up. But don’t go thinking the ele needs even more power creep.

Zenith.7301:

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

The thing is ppl talk about the game type that best fits there argument at the time so the counter point of view going to be staff ele are bad at spvp (all though they are good at every thing else in the game). What needs to be done is to have a definer in the OP what game type they are talking about i think that will clear up a lot about tempest and ele talks. (i come from the point of view of wvw spvp from my point of view more about team work then builds if your doing random group spvp you already lost.)

So overloads work in pve because lol pve being hard and wvw (aoe is king in wvw) it dose not work well in spvp aoe not as good there but you can still build a team on the ideal of the tempest every being alone. So you can make it work if you want to.

Ele is god tier everywhere.

Staff ele for pve/wvw.

D/D ele god tier in spvp/WvW roaming.

There’s not a single game format where the ele isn’t the best class ingame. What did you expect, a further upgrade to a broken class? If you want the tempest to be good, you either assign them a special niche that doesn’t make them more powerful than they already are.

Or you nerf the base ele and make it so the tempest brings the ele back up. But don’t go thinking the ele needs even more power creep.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Did-Tempest-Overloads-convince-you/page/2#post5426795

People who didn’t like tempest mechanically/conceptually are giving their reasons based on traits and mechanics analysis, and even giving ideas or thoughts about what could be done. People who hate eles are just throwing fallacies everywhere to justify keeping tempest useless. It’s ANet’s call to decide what is more logical to do.

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

What was it about? I couldn’t watch PoI. :/

Valento.9852:

What was it about? I couldn’t watch PoI. :/

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/13268205

It’s fun, feels new and apparently “can’t get new animations” wasn’t the case any more.

rotten.9753:

Valento.9852:

What was it about? I couldn’t watch PoI. :/

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/13268205

It’s fun, feels new and apparently “can’t get new animations” wasn’t the case any more.

New animation only applies to expansion.

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

Yeah it just feel that tempest was completely rushed. I’m really worried about it because it’s my main class and so far I did not like it. I think I may start to main thief, revenant or mesmer when HoT is released.

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

I kind of disagree in that yes its fun and will be effective but it still shows Karl’s limitations as a designer. DD is simply a better version of acrobatics (just like tempest is another version of D/D) there’s no imagination in the design it doesn’t bring anything really new to the class like chronomancer, reaper or even dragonhunter have done. The thing with ele compared to thief is that ele has more complex mechanics thus it requires someone with creativety to get a handle on it.

morrolan.9608:

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

I kind of disagree in that yes its fun and will be effective but it still shows Karl’s limitations as a designer. DD is simply a better version of acrobatics (just like tempest is another version of D/D) there’s no imagination in the design it doesn’t bring anything really new to the class like chronomancer, reaper or even dragonhunter have done. The thing with ele compared to thief is that ele has more complex mechanics thus it requires someone with creativety to get a handle on it.

New=/=better.

I’d rather get something effective, you can keep your love of inefficient gimmicks for yourself.

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

The thing is that is the fear of what tempest could become something that is so profoundly better then its base class that it comply removes the chose to run the base class. Ele seems to be on the chopping block for nerfs they fill rolls every effectually as is with out needing to be a tempest. Tempest adds a bit more of the support game play with out losing what it means to be an ele and with out losing most of the power of being an ele.

What daredevil is and may become a class killer. This elite spec is going to get hit hard before it comes out and i for one hate to start at the top and fall down its a better feeling to start low and work your way up. Tempest is starting from low but its going to get better over time and it will feel and play all the better for it. Daredevil zerker even cron are starting from the top just images how hard they are going to drop before hot.

Jski.6180:

The thing is that is the fear of what tempest could become something that is so profoundly better then its base class that it comply removes the chose to run the base class. Ele seems to be on the chopping block for nerfs they fill rolls every effectually as is with out needing to be a tempest. Tempest adds a bit more of the support game play with out losing what it means to be an ele and with out losing most of the power of being an ele.

What daredevil is and may become a class killer. This elite spec is going to get hit hard before it comes out and i for one hate to start at the top and fall down its a better feeling to start low and work your way up. Tempest is starting from low but its going to get better over time and it will feel and play all the better for it. Daredevil zerker even cron are starting from the top just images how hard they are going to drop before hot.

I’ll answer you one last time and please don’t quote me any more because I won’t respond. I’m tired of repeating the same kitten over and over again.

Tempest isn’t fun, engaging and brings absolutely nothing new to ele profession. Daredevil looks fun, has new animations (unlike our 8x blowing), traits have cohesion and synergy. Balancing numbers won’t ever change those relations.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

The thing is that is the fear of what tempest could become something that is so profoundly better then its base class that it comply removes the chose to run the base class. Ele seems to be on the chopping block for nerfs they fill rolls every effectually as is with out needing to be a tempest. Tempest adds a bit more of the support game play with out losing what it means to be an ele and with out losing most of the power of being an ele.

What daredevil is and may become a class killer. This elite spec is going to get hit hard before it comes out and i for one hate to start at the top and fall down its a better feeling to start low and work your way up. Tempest is starting from low but its going to get better over time and it will feel and play all the better for it. Daredevil zerker even cron are starting from the top just images how hard they are going to drop before hot.

I’ll answer you one last time and please don’t quote me any more because I won’t respond. I’m tired of repeating the same kitten over and over again.

Tempest isn’t fun, engaging and brings absolutely nothing new to ele profession. Daredevil looks fun, has new animations (unlike our 8x blowing), traits have cohesion and synergy. Balancing numbers won’t ever change those relations.

Actually, upon closer examination, the tempest does bring some new things to the ele. The problem is that a large portion of the new stuff is just AoE support versions of current ele effects, which is boring. In addition, many of the effects are under-tuned and some even require unrealistic levels of co-ordination from the group. From the effects that are completely new, and not just AoE versions of existing effects, I would say that only the boonshare on the warhorn is good. Finally, none of the new stuff from the tempest are part of the class mechanic, which means that you are forced to take warhorn or shouts if you want anything new.

And taking warhorn or shouts is less effective than anything else core ele can do. It cannot replace anything at all. For these to be worth, it shouldn’t be stronger, but on pair with core ele, which isn’t the case.

Valento.9852:

And taking warhorn or shouts is less effective than anything else core ele can do. It cannot replace anything at all. For these to be worth, it shouldn’t be stronger, but on pair with core ele, which isn’t the case.

Shouts are something new for ele altogether the thing about most ele utility they are self only where something like shouts are very team base. Mostly the fire shout and frost shout are going to be major useful for your pt. WH on its on is not that good but it lets you brake pt stuns boots the ranges on your boons and lets you give your pt boons that ele cant not give out.

Jski.6180:

Valento.9852:

And taking warhorn or shouts is less effective than anything else core ele can do. It cannot replace anything at all. For these to be worth, it shouldn’t be stronger, but on pair with core ele, which isn’t the case.

Shouts are something new for ele altogether the thing about most ele utility they are self only where something like shouts are very team base. Mostly the fire shout and frost shout are going to be major useful for your pt. WH on its on is not that good but it lets you brake pt stuns boots the ranges on your boons and lets you give your pt boons that ele cant not give out.

You just said the two small things WH is bringing: AoE stun-break, and Signet of Inspiration v2.0. Those can make a difference, and I think they will. WH is the least worrying thing about the elite spec.