Guild Wars 2

Because any time I use a staff, there’s no escapes. It’s completely impossible to get out of combat to switch weapons again. There’s no good reason not to let us have weapon swap in WvW. None.

Allow me to help with 4 months of Ele staff experience.

Use a Fiery Greatsword for Elite and when you need to escape,
use it. It has 2 movement abilities like a warriors greatsword.

That combined with map awareness 100% is all you need. If you
are in the open and getting to zerg, use a dagger offhand for
Ride the Lightning so you are not caught in open.

Four hours playing tonight, zero deaths, 132 badges. Typical night
I may die 2 times max. Some might find that hard to beleive, but
map awareness 100% and knowing when to run and where NOT
to be.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Allow me to help with 4 months of Ele staff experience.

Use a Fiery Greatsword for Elite and when you need to escape,
use it. It has 2 movement abilities like a warriors greatsword.

That combined with map awareness 100% is all you need. If you
are in the open and getting to zerg, use a dagger offhand for
Ride the Lightning so you are not caught in open.

Four hours playing tonight, zero deaths, 132 badges. Typical night
I may die 2 times max. Some might find that hard to beleive, but
map awareness 100% and knowing when to run and where NOT
to be.

Nice advice thanks, though I hardly use Staff for WvW.

I’ll try it, I guess.

katniss.6735:

There’s no good reason not to let us have weapon swap in WvW. None.

There’s a very good reason: game balance. And it’s not a bad reason solely because nobody has thought of a way to abuse it yet. If in combat weapon swapping would get implemented for the elementalist, the abuse would come soon enough. :-)

Though juggling 40 skills would be fun. But we would then just flatten everyone.

Would be nice to have out-of-combat swap though. More convenient than having to open the hero panel and switch manually.

Thunderbrew.7034:

snip

…but map awareness 100% and knowing when to run and where NOT to be.

This is pretty much the guide to surviving as any class but especially as Ele. I run full Berserker gear with Full Berserker Traits (30/30/0/10/0) and have no problems with survival because I keep map awareness (anticipating pushes based on map) as well as plan/think of an escape route in every scenario.

If a “brawl” happens (where like 10-15 guys are fighting 10-15 guys intermixed with each other) I tend to gravitate more towards the outside. If I’m unusually focused and in trouble (which happens) I draw the people attacking me out by backing further away from the fight so it’s clear what is hitting me and whether or not they’re willing to commit to chasing me for a kill. If it looks like we’re going to lose, I pull back. Dying and running back doesn’t serve the team as well as being able to spot and call numbers from a nearby tower (especially cause you still have the option to tele back to regroup).

Also don’t be afraid of your own power. I’ve had a lot of guys think a “A staff ele…free kill” only to suddenly get slammed with thousands of damage and flop over dead. Learn to use what tools we do have (Fire 4 is like a third evade since you evade attacks while using it) and gauge accordingly.

Out of combat swap would be much appreciated. As it is, I’ve gotten pretty good at just doing it myself in the Hero window.

I can’t think of any abuse. They already gimped AoE. A necro is the best ranged AoE now. All eles are in PVT, or any combination with Toughness on it and can’t run around in bursty staff builds.

Here’s the main reasons I want to swap:
1. Attacking tower siege, then defenders jump down to attack. Switch to D/D so I can’t actually do something.
2. Defend myself in the jumping puzzle.
3. Heal people.
4. Water slow.
5. Air Stun.

This is the only thing I want to do with a focus:
1. Block siege shots on walls and our team’s siege.

These are some awesome combos you could do with staff swapping:
1. Air 5 stun and combo field. OP? No. Other classes can already do this with utilities and regular weapon skills.
2. Fire: Lava font, meteor shower. Both are the best damage spells an elementalist has. Only thing comparable is dragon’s tooth with scepter (easily avoidable), and churning earth (dagger off-hand), which you need to teleport onto people most of the time.
3. Earth skills? No. They are all mediocre because they’re based on condition damage, and you have to be in a knowledgeable group to know how to combo off of anything. The cripple is useful sometimes. The best use is killing a buffed supervisor, and building might stacks.
4. Water has combo fields, with AoE healing comparable to guardians. As with dagger, it applies vulnerability, but it’s easier to apply with the dagger.

I would be happen with out-of-combat swap, too. So i can always use the items I want instead of searching for them. But that’s been said a billion times on these forums. For some reason they won’t do it. It’s code that is already available for other classes. Just change the parameters.

Kodiak.3281:

Thunderbrew.7034:

snip

…but map awareness 100% and knowing when to run and where NOT to be.

This is pretty much the guide to surviving as any class but especially as Ele. I run full Berserker gear with Full Berserker Traits (30/30/0/10/0) and have no problems with survival because I keep map awareness (anticipating pushes based on map) as well as plan/think of an escape route in every scenario.

If a “brawl” happens (where like 10-15 guys are fighting 10-15 guys intermixed with each other) I tend to gravitate more towards the outside. If I’m unusually focused and in trouble (which happens) I draw the people attacking me out by backing further away from the fight so it’s clear what is hitting me and whether or not they’re willing to commit to chasing me for a kill. If it looks like we’re going to lose, I pull back. Dying and running back doesn’t serve the team as well as being able to spot and call numbers from a nearby tower (especially cause you still have the option to tele back to regroup).

Also don’t be afraid of your own power. I’ve had a lot of guys think a “A staff ele…free kill” only to suddenly get slammed with thousands of damage and flop over dead. Learn to use what tools we do have (Fire 4 is like a third evade since you evade attacks while using it) and gauge accordingly.

I would love to be able to play staff as you describe it. I don’t have any zerkers gear except the Zed’s gloves. Contemplating buying a set. I have used 100% zerkers with staff in sPVP and it was the most fun I’ve ever had with a staff. I didn’t use that zerker’s spec you use, though. That would be a learning curve for me. Do you have any videos of staff use in wvw?

I drop AoEs on top of myself if some melee tries to come at me.

katniss.6735:

I would love to be able to play staff as you describe it. I don’t have any zerkers gear except the Zed’s gloves. Contemplating buying a set. I have used 100% zerkers with staff in sPVP and it was the most fun I’ve ever had with a staff. I didn’t use that zerker’s spec you use, though. That would be a learning curve for me. Do you have any videos of staff use in wvw?

I don’t have one yet. I was thinking of making one cause I was kind of tired of reading all the whine posts about staff being useless and how everyone has to be D/D or S/D in WvW or Dungeons etc.

Personally I crafted mine. Went full Berserker armor, weapons and accessories. Even slotted Rubies in the Upgrade slots. Sigil of Fire in the staff. From here I play one of two builds:

Glass Cannon DPS Build

Pretty much what you expect out of a total glass cannon build. You really have to play defensively and learn to use your defensive tools to their maximum here. To put things in perspective I have arond 67% crit rating and 100% critical damage so basically anytime I hit I have a good chance of critting and pretty much just run over people. I laugh when I watch people go to ress their buddy only to sit under Lava Fonts that basically down them as well.

You will tend to stick with a group or crowd with this build. WvW is a team sport, use your team.

Staff Cantrip Build

This was my first build that got me comfortable with the second. It relies a lot on Cantrips to provide you the defense you lack on your Berserker equipment. It can also be used to assist a team with huge amounts of condition removal and Regen. You still do good damage, but obviously not obscene amounts (mostly because zero in Air means less crits). Be sure to rotate Water Attunement → Air Attunement (Swift) → Glyph (Swift) → Air 4 (Swift) → Water Attunemement to maintain perma Swiftness while running around since you aren’t throwing on Signet of Air. I still use this when I want to go more tanky and it’s my general purpose build for dungeons, Orr farming or WvW.

I could spit all sorts of numerologies at you and advice but it’s probably better to ask how to overcome a scenario you’re having trouble with.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Allow me to help with 4 months of Ele staff experience.

Use a Fiery Greatsword for Elite and when you need to escape,
use it. It has 2 movement abilities like a warriors greatsword.

That combined with map awareness 100% is all you need. If you
are in the open and getting to zerg, use a dagger offhand for
Ride the Lightning so you are not caught in open.

Four hours playing tonight, zero deaths, 132 badges. Typical night
I may die 2 times max. Some might find that hard to beleive, but
map awareness 100% and knowing when to run and where NOT
to be.

please please post these videos i wanna see the 132 badges and zero deaths in 4 hours

Kodiak, I probably will go back to all zerks. As of now, I use
all zerg armor and trinkets, but specced 0-20-0-30-20.

Urinfamousr, I hesitated to even post that because I knew
what the response would be. It sounds like Kodiak plays
the same way I do, with the same results. Alas, it is true, but
perhaps I have the edge with who I run with on SOR (FEAR).
In those 4 hours the 25 man zerg never once whiped because
of the skill of the guild player base.

Even if thats not the case though urinfamousr, trust to it if you
follow these guidelines (and I have no shame saying these).

1) Use dagger OH when traveling far for Ride the Lightning
2) Fiery Greatsword Elite is there for the escapes on it. It has saved
my butt dozens of times.
3) If it looks like a fight is being lost, I leave. I dont fight to the death.
If leaving means getting out of combat and TPing back to zone in,
thats what I do.
4) As I said, knowing at all times whats going on around you, 360 degrees.
5) I dont fight unless Im going to win or Im with other people. Period. I cant
tell you how many enemy this week charges into 5 to 1 odds and die
right away. In fact, hundreds of players play that way. I dont.

If it helps I’ll get a stream setup of 2 hours of video, but I doubt many
are that interested. Hopefully Kodiak chimes in about it as well on his
experience, because I can tell you there are 5 staff eles who run in our guild
with the same results.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Kodiak, I probably will go back to all zerks. As of now, I use
all zerg armor and trinkets, but specced 0-20-0-30-20.

Urinfamousr, I hesitated to even post that because I knew
what the response would be. It sounds like Kodiak plays
the same way I do, with the same results. Alas, it is true, but
perhaps I have the edge with who I run with on SOR (FEAR).
In those 4 hours the 25 man zerg never once whiped because
of the skill of the guild player base.

Even if thats not the case though urinfamousr, trust to it if you
follow these guidelines (and I have no shame saying these).

1) Use dagger OH when traveling far for Ride the Lightning
2) Fiery Greatsword Elite is there for the escapes on it. It has saved
my butt dozens of times.
3) If it looks like a fight is being lost, I leave. I dont fight to the death.
If leaving means getting out of combat and TPing back to zone in,
thats what I do.
4) As I said, knowing at all times whats going on around you, 360 degrees.
5) I dont fight unless Im going to win or Im with other people. Period. I cant
tell you how many enemy this week charges into 5 to 1 odds and die
right away. In fact, hundreds of players play that way. I dont.

If it helps I’ll get a stream setup of 2 hours of video, but I doubt many
are that interested. Hopefully Kodiak chimes in about it as well on his
experience, because I can tell you there are 5 staff eles who run in our guild
with the same results.

I switch specs around a lot too. Like I said I’m a huge fan of the Staff Cantrip build beacuse it offers us defenses so we can go full Zerk gear.

Personally I don’t have a guild and tend to just attach myself militia style to other groups. I mean really that’s how this game works and I take huge advantage of it both in PvE and PvP. This is kind of the other strength of the Cantrip build, having 30 water really makes you shine in large groups since it’s huge AOE condition removal.

All your points are pretty sound and exactly things I do as well. I can’t count the number of times I watch some crazy Ele charge in or stick around and entire time in my head I’m thinking, “Well there goes another guy who’s going to complain on the forums.”

A lot of it is playing tactically. After 14 years of PvP and usually playing a mage (which are traditionally squishy) you get used to playing a lot more tactically. By tactically I mean you really have to keep the battlefield in your head as you fight and plan everything out ahead of time. None of this is really new or revolutionary, it’s all part of standard PvP tactics. It’s just much, MUCH more important when you are playing a squishy character type.

Glass cannon staff elementalist is a lot fun – punching a zerg (eruption > ice spike > lightning surge > lava font > Flame Burst > meteor shower … with some CC thrown in to make most targets stay put) is incredibly effective even as a solo elementalist … assuming you don’t get targeted.

For myself, whenever I run a glass cannon build, I typically have 2 cantrips slotted to GTFO when I’m getting focused. Protection and magnetic aura are very useful, as is Burning Retreat. I also seemed to live a lot longer and escape from hairy situations with a Superior Sigil of Energy in my staff (also useful if you’ve traited into Evasive Arcana).

That said, I’ve found a little vitality (eg, valkyrie gear) and toughness help give me a little more time to use my cantrips and escape. Depending on your setup and how damaging your enemy is, you can also tank your enemies in short bursts. I typically do this by swapping to Earth (for Protection with Elemental Attunement trait), drop Eruption at my feet, swap to Water, drop Geyser and Healing Rain, followed by Ice Spike, Lava Font and Meteor Shower, to start putting the pressure back on my enemy. If they hit a little too hard, I can use burning retreat, swap to Air, Gust and Static Field them to get distance (or cover). Frozen Ground is nice if you think they’re going to use a healing move (because it increases recast time).

Lots of good advice in here – the biggest being know your map! Know what terrain you can run up, jump up, or must go around. Know where there are obstacles that will block LOS. Know what falls you can survive and what cliffs you can Gust people off for insta-kills.

I wouldn’t recommend starting off as a Glass Cannon elementalist unless you’re up for the challenge and don’t mind a lot of repair bills in the beginning.

The end of your post Kaleden sums it up. The people dying so much
as Staff ele are playing it wrong. Just finished another 4 hour wvw in EB
tonight, and this time I died 2 times do to strange culling (still not sure
how the patch changed it). What I should have said in the earlier post
is how many times I went into the downed state. Tonight was probably
8 times, but I am always near guildies to bring me back.

I would have to say that in 95% of the zerg battles its two groups moving
in unison. The battles are never 25 people scattered all over your viewing
space preventing you from getting a handle on whats going on. Stick with
the group and move with them, and know when to get out. I play with the
mindset of a cowardly thief in the shadows: I attack when the opportunity
rises and run or hide otherwise. Play that way, it makes a world of difference
as a GC staff ele. You skills will safe you countless times (Lightning Flash,
Mist Form and Fiery Greatsword for movement).

By the way, this “25 people stacking on one space” tactic doesnt work
against GOOD people. We saw it countless of times tonight and rocked it.
Its a elementalist’s dream come true though, lol. The enemy did that every time
we ran across them tonight.

Here’s a really basic video that shows a scenario which I’m not really in any danger but it’s important to remain vigilant at all times. Just some basic things that should help cover how I play when I play even in the non dangerous scenarios so I’m prepared when things do actually get dangerous.

@0:05 you can see I look at the map and I see a battle in Molevekian and that we currently own it. I decide to help the green dot on the map take the Veteran. On my run over I check behind where the enemy could come from (their keep area) to make sure we don’t get blindsided.

@0:40 you can see I don’t just stand on the point. I’m constantly spinning my camera around to check for any incoming targets.

@1:12 you can see Molevekian is no longer ours. What forces took it? Could be 1 guy, 5 guys, 30 guys you can’t tell. Therefore I initially plan to run past it and check it from the south side entrance in case the enemy is going through to take Rogue’s Quarry (a common tactic).

@1:18 I notice on the radar that we have friendlies in Molevekian so I head in to check it out for a potential fight. Inside it’s just 3 allies taking out a single guy. His allies appear to be retreating.

@1:50 I’m checking out my allies. Notice one went after the skill point meaning probably a newer guy. I notice the up arrow meaning it’s not 80. Another ally is also not 80 as well. It’s important to know your allies become here the enemy comes!

@1:55 First move I make now that I know I’m not grouped up with higher levels is to back out of the main fray. If they want to target me, it forces them to commit and pull them into the main fighting area which most won’t do. While doing this you see I pan my camera around to check out if anyone is coming after me directly. This now gives me a good tactical command of the situation and notice only the warrior charged in while his allies are sitting back. I cycle through them to check their classes.

@2:05 While auto attacking I check to make sure the 4th guy I saw originally when they were running out of the cavern wasn’t sneaking up on me.

@2:13 The Warrior switches to me. Instead of finishing my Blind, I immediately evade away and avoid the predicted shield bash. He has a sword/shield out meaning he can still leap so I don’t wait around after a single evade and immediately swap to Fire and use 4 to evade back again to create additional distance. Sure enough he leaps again to try to get distance and goes down. I drop a Lava Font and immediately move on to the next target.

@2:28 I swap to Lightning to setup a stun. The intent is to force the Elementalist to use a cool down like Mist Form or Cantrip to break it early on. Sure enough he blows Mist Form. Now I swap to Water because I know he doesn’t have Mist Form to walk through it. At best he’ll have Lightning Flash to skip over the field but it turns out he doesn’t. Everyone else catches up and he goes down. I swapped to earth to setup another field before he got knocked around out of the path.

As a side note, that elementalist should have totally abandoned the distraction the warrior stood up. The warrior completely dragged off all 5 of us towards another direction and he stuck around like a bump on a log. I mean +1 for going down with the ship but -5 for not playing tactically.

@3:05 I immediately duck out to the side and hide along the wall. I dunno where the enemy is coming out of this cave and want to draw least amount of attention to myself. Handy when you’re the smallest character in the game.

Some point down the line I’ll gather up a bunch of video and make something better for Staff tips.

Staff is a fine weapon for running around with the zerg.

It is, however, a horrible weapon for roaming around solo or in small groups because it’s totally designed around AOE. No decent single-target damage options, no traits that make it anything but a zerg support weapon.

Staff lacks versatility.