Guild Wars 2

Dogged March:

Incoming movement-impeding conditions have their durations reduced. Gain regeneration when you are affected by one of these conditions.

Regeneration: 3 s (390 health)
Immobilized
Crippled.
Chilled
Duration decreased: 33%

Geomancer’s Freedom:

You recover from crippled, immobilized, and chilled faster.

Duration decrease: 33%

DM is an adept trait while GF is a master.

yeah, GF needs to be moved to adept at the very least or made better than the warrior’s trait. they get the same effect +regen at an adept. Because screw fairness.

Ele also needs more HP. About 20k base hp because the people in dungeon forum are surprised my ele has anything more than 10k hp with full zerker gear. Also we need higher base armor/toughness. Probably call it super heavy class.

It’s META Conditions Syndrome. Rather than nerfing it or buffing other play styles, elementalist are forced to become mini necro tanks. The new build the dervs rolling are supporting condtion tanks, losing water and arcane tree is no biggie for attrition warfare. Celestial/ Cav/ Divinity runes bleh, put that armor aside and load Dire/perplexity. That’s the new meta forced on for eles, spamable game play with less escapes cause you just sit and tank long enough to overwhelm foes with perplexity. I’ve tried those viable build stated when Perplexity runes first came out on necros and engis. But you lack condition removal .. and becoming the enemy is just silly.

Skills and traits of other classes including base toughness and HP will be miles ahead in comparison to eles because eles can equip 20 weapons skills and can basically adapt to almost any situation with the various utilities these weapon skills has to offer: Fire for offense, Water for cleansing and healing, Air for burst and CC, Earth for defense and CC.

At least this, for me I think, is how devs justify those number crunching that they make in balancing stuff.

The engineer’s Leg Mods does the same thing as geomancer’s freedom, and is also a master trait as well.

Just wanted to put that out there.

They should nerf conditions where it’s needed and not give classes more anti-condi, because that is reducing build variety as traits become mandatory.

Nerf condi spam and it wouldn’t be an issue.

Do not directly compare different classes.

Morelia.6835:

Do not directly compare different classes.

Then how should different classes be compared for balance purposes?

Count the number of Elementalists in tournaments?

Count the number of times Elementalists is request in LFG by dungeon groups?

Count the number of Elementalists in wvw?

Count the number of Elementalists playing in sPvP?

Count the number of newly created Elementalists each month?

Count the number of Elementalists that finish high-end living story such as The Queen’s Gauntlet?

Doing so, the conclusion would be obvious. Consistently Buff every aspect of Elementalists until the point where Elementalists popularity reaches the average class, and then nerf every aspect of every other class until they too reach average popularty.

Thats the only way to no directly compare different classes traits and skills.

Belorn.2659:

Morelia.6835:

Do not directly compare different classes.

Then how should different classes be compared for balance purposes?

Count the number of Elementalists in tournaments?

Count the number of times Elementalists is request in LFG by dungeon groups?

Count the number of Elementalists in wvw?

Count the number of Elementalists playing in sPvP?

Count the number of newly created Elementalists each month?

Count the number of Elementalists that finish high-end living story such as The Queen’s Gauntlet?

Doing so, the conclusion would be obvious. Consistently Buff every aspect of Elementalists until the point where Elementalists popularity reaches the average class, and then nerf every aspect of every other class until they too reach average popularty.

Thats the only way to no directly compare different classes traits and skills.

The point is that if you’re going to compare classes directly you might as well go “warriors have more base armor and health than elementalist regardless of builds, therefore they are clearly the better class in every possible respect”, which obviously isn’t true at all.
Elementalists may have issues in sPvP, but another class having a slightly better version of a similar trait is not likely to be the reason for that.

So then how would YOU compare them?

Good observation, but elementalists cannot compare themselves to God.

Morelia.6835:

Belorn.2659:

Morelia.6835:

Do not directly compare different classes.

Then how should different classes be compared for balance purposes?

Count the number of Elementalists in tournaments?

Count the number of times Elementalists is request in LFG by dungeon groups?

Count the number of Elementalists in wvw?

Count the number of Elementalists playing in sPvP?

Count the number of newly created Elementalists each month?

Count the number of Elementalists that finish high-end living story such as The Queen’s Gauntlet?

Doing so, the conclusion would be obvious. Consistently Buff every aspect of Elementalists until the point where Elementalists popularity reaches the average class, and then nerf every aspect of every other class until they too reach average popularty.

Thats the only way to no directly compare different classes traits and skills.

The point is that if you’re going to compare classes directly you might as well go “warriors have more base armor and health than elementalist regardless of builds, therefore they are clearly the better class in every possible respect”, which obviously isn’t true at all.
Elementalists may have issues in sPvP, but another class having a slightly better version of a similar trait is not likely to be the reason for that.

I think OP is comparing the amount of trait points needed and that fact that a adept level trait has more benefits than a master leveled one.

Probably bringing up the point because of the devs are using trait “level” as a reference to how powerful they should be……..

The “trait” level is just how good the trait is but the class that is on is most definitely considered.

Dhuumfire is the same as Incendiary power between engi’s and necromancers but necros must spend 30 points for the trait and Engi’s currently spend 10 after the patch they have to spend 20. They do this on purpose it isn’t like Engi’s have Fear/Terror so that is my guess as to why it’s ok for it to not cost Engineers 30 points. Since that is potentially 3k+ hard to avoid damage a condition engi doesn’t have that the necromancer does.

ReesesPBC.4603:

So then how would YOU compare them?

Think about it like this:

Is there anything only your class can do?
Are there things it does better than any other class?
How does it compare to other classes for a specific role?

You generally run into problems with class usage if they don’t have any qualities that make them stand out over other classes or are simply outclassed at different roles.

Morelia would you be so kind as to point out those things that only eles can do? I’m having trouble thinking of any.

Keep in mind that in the next patch, the Elementalist is going to get a trait which gives Regen on being crit upon and immunity to condis when above 90% HP. It also has Cleansing Water which cleanses a condition upon granting Regen.

keadlaw.6350:

Morelia would you be so kind as to point out those things that only eles can do? I’m having trouble thinking of any.

Allow me to use the Staff Elementalist in large WvW groups as an example:

• strongest AoE damage in the game (especially lava font, meteor shower)
• access to the most water combo fields (healing rain is one of the most powerful combo fields in the game)
• two of the strongest AoE CC spells in the game (static field, unsteady ground)

Any raid that doesn’t bring Elementalists is at a severe disadvantage because of these points. I don’t have much experience with sPvP so I can’t really talk about that. It’s also not like I’m saying that Elementalist doesn’t have some issues, my whole point was just that you shouldn’t compare classes directly and base your complaints around that. What you should be asking for is to improve the class in the areas you think it is lacking in.

wvw staff ele is in a good place this is true as long as you stay with the herd. My main issue is that the devs have been using comparisons like mine to justify shuffling our traits around. I’m just wondering how they can then justify a stronger trait being in a lower tier for a different class.

I play both warrior an ele in most aspects of the game and I can’t help but notice the warrior seems to be in a better position. For a mere 15 points they get access to Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Healing Signet. This gives them very good passive healing I might even go as far as say its better than ele’s active healing because they can keep the pressure on. Now why does a class with the highest hp/armor warrant healing as good or better than the ele? While still having 55 trait points to spend how they please. To be able to keep up I’m forced to take Healing Ripple, Elemental Attunement, and Evasive Arcana taking up 45 of my 70 trait points.

keadlaw.6350:

wvw staff ele is in a good place this is true as long as you stay with the herd. My main issue is that the devs have been using comparisons like mine to justify shuffling our traits around. I’m just wondering how they can then justify a stronger trait being in a lower tier for a different class.

I play both warrior an ele in most aspects of the game and I can’t help but notice the warrior seems to be in a better position. For a mere 15 points they get access to Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Healing Signet. This gives them very good passive healing I might even go as far as say its better than ele’s active healing because they can keep the pressure on. Now why does a class with the highest hp/armor warrant healing as good or better than the ele? While still having 55 trait points to spend how they please. To be able to keep up I’m forced to take Healing Ripple, Elemental Attunement, and Evasive Arcana taking up 45 of my 70 trait points.

Consider that all of those elementalist heals work in AoE while the warrior regen only affects themselves. Of course that doesn’t matter in a dueling setting, but if you run with even a small group it makes a big difference.

keadlaw.6350:

wvw staff ele is in a good place this is true as long as you stay with the herd. My main issue is that the devs have been using comparisons like mine to justify shuffling our traits around. I’m just wondering how they can then justify a stronger trait being in a lower tier for a different class.

I play both warrior an ele in most aspects of the game and I can’t help but notice the warrior seems to be in a better position. For a mere 15 points they get access to Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Healing Signet. This gives them very good passive healing I might even go as far as say its better than ele’s active healing because they can keep the pressure on. Now why does a class with the highest hp/armor warrant healing as good or better than the ele? While still having 55 trait points to spend how they please. To be able to keep up I’m forced to take Healing Ripple, Elemental Attunement, and Evasive Arcana taking up 45 of my 70 trait points.

It will play a bit differently after the patch. Unsuspecting moves to 20 points deeper in arms so if a warrior wants it they have spend 10 more trait points to get it. If they want that and Forceful greatsword they will have to spend 20 points.

So now if we take the popular 0/20/30/0/20 or 0/20/20/0/30 builds with hammer or mace/shield with GS.

It will have to look like 0/30/20/0/20 if they want both traits in arms that means more critical chance but 100 less armor and 100 less critical damage along with longer cooldown. I usually just run 20 discipline anyway on my warrior but GS mobility is really important so giving that up for unsuspecting foe will be hard. To include the -20-24% damage nerf to earthshaker and staggering blow that makes merciless hammer even more important.

So if you feel you have to have 30 points in defense you will be giving up mobility on GS. If you feel you must have burst mastery and 30 in defense you will be giving up both traits.

So my guess is that 0/30/20/0/20 will become the new go to build for roaming type of play then you still have mobility still can slot cav gear/some pvt. Still do damage and sustain but you have to pick between cleansing ire, last stand or merciless hammer. Those are pretty tough choices the mace shield wars will probably slot the same utilities and play how they do now. Hammer guy will probably lean toward merciless hammer and drop dolyak for signet of stamina.

Both of those builds will then not have auto stability activate when they are hit with hard CC. Which alows more classes to open on them with only 1 stability on hand. Just how I see it playing out post patch all my own assumptions though.

Morelia.6835:

keadlaw.6350:

wvw staff ele is in a good place this is true as long as you stay with the herd. My main issue is that the devs have been using comparisons like mine to justify shuffling our traits around. I’m just wondering how they can then justify a stronger trait being in a lower tier for a different class.

I play both warrior an ele in most aspects of the game and I can’t help but notice the warrior seems to be in a better position. For a mere 15 points they get access to Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Healing Signet. This gives them very good passive healing I might even go as far as say its better than ele’s active healing because they can keep the pressure on. Now why does a class with the highest hp/armor warrant healing as good or better than the ele? While still having 55 trait points to spend how they please. To be able to keep up I’m forced to take Healing Ripple, Elemental Attunement, and Evasive Arcana taking up 45 of my 70 trait points.

Consider that all of those elementalist heals work in AoE while the warrior regen only affects themselves. Of course that doesn’t matter in a dueling setting, but if you run with even a small group it makes a big difference.

Pretty sure none on this sub forum will not agree with you than ele does shine in small to huge grp fights. They do.
Until they get focused more than 4s by ANY other profession. In 1on1 any class will have much more easier access to base survivability-heal/dmg ratio by quite far.

For the record, the only “unique” thing eles got for them is the ability to swit elements and then have more skills available.
And thats sounds cool but ,helas, in dev mind that means:
weaker base atcks, and more time needed to have access to more likely the same effects others have in 2 weapons sets .
With lower cooldowns.
Add lowest hp/thoughness base on top of this, and wonder why people blame elems to have the most QQ subforum while even those who blame us admit at some point smthing wrong with us..

zitounae.4803:

Add lowest hp/thoughness base on top of this, and wonder why people blame elems to have the most QQ subforum while even those who blame us admit at some point smthing wrong with us..

If you compare the different class forums you’ll see that each of them is just as whiny as the next one.

Morelia.6835:

zitounae.4803:

Add lowest hp/thoughness base on top of this, and wonder why people blame elems to have the most QQ subforum while even those who blame us admit at some point smthing wrong with us..

If you compare the different class forums you’ll see that each of them is just as whiny as the next one.

no

Morelia.6835:

zitounae.4803:

Add lowest hp/thoughness base on top of this, and wonder why people blame elems to have the most QQ subforum while even those who blame us admit at some point smthing wrong with us..

If you compare the different class forums you’ll see that each of them is just as whiny as the next one.

No, I check on the forums pretty regularly all around, and the Ele ones are more QQ compared to other profession subforums, overall.