Guild Wars 2

Looking for an honest discussion if people are willing to have one. I’m willing to listen to a good argument.

So. Sure, it’s more or less an appropriate downed skill. But much like Invisibility (old hat argument not needed in this thread), it brings with it a WvW imbalance. Specifically, the lack of a restriction/penalty (other than range) that comes alongside most other comparable downed skills.

Using this to enter a tower or keep, for example, is an incongruity that I’m guessing most of us have experienced. It doesn’t compare to other mobile downed state skills. A Thief can teleport but isn’t able to enter the tower. A Warrior can Vengeance through but will die shortly after. From my experience, most Elementalists are virtually impossible to lock down and keep out of a tower. Mist Form -> downed state -> Vapor Form usually has enough range to get inside. A suicidal Ele should be exactly that--suicidal.

Off the top of my head I can think of another time an Elementalist was able to Vapor Form off a cliff into water and leave me unable to stomp him/her. (Thereby eliminating the Ele from the fight… something you can’t do as quickly under water.) I had to continue dueling the Ele’s buddies until the Ele quickly rejoined. As a Thief that could only have gone to the edge of the cliff, I wonder why the Ele wasn’t limited in the same way. Not saying it wasn’t absolutely great playing on the Ele’s part. It was. But how someone is able to garner an advantage from the downed state is beyond me. Even a Mesmer that can go invis, summon a clone, and stack Confusion doesn’t get that sort of treatment. Just kill the second Mesmer to appear.

Invulnerability is a whole other beast. But it’s not what I’m most concerned about.

Maybe it’s just a petty gripe. I do think it’s something worth a bit of discussion though and would like to hear back from a few Elementalists and others willing to have one. Convince me that I’m wrong thinking it should be modified for WvW in some way. Not nerfed. Modified.

Mod please transfer this post to elementalist class forum. Thanks.

Too many PvE Elementalists and too few WvW Elementalists.

Because it’s WvW related, here is good enough.

Vapor form or mist form in downed state can be immobilized! <—— the key to kill those pesky ele’s near keeps/towers.

^Can they be immobilized once they are in vapor/mist form?

The actual skill mist form normally can’t be immobilized but the downed state one can. If they are in downed state mist form already, yes it can be immobilized.

Please tell me how to do it Fenim. I usually just ignore elementalists when they are near a keep/tower.

Easy: hit them with an immobilize after they go down but before they use mist form. They’ll enter mist form but be stuck there until the immob runs out. (easiest if you just pile on all your immobs once they go down).

Either way, I agree that it’s quite broken compared to the others since this seems to be the only way to deal with it. Would fear maybe work?

A lot of classes have few if any immobilises, and most will have used them prior to the downed state ele. My pet started casting it’s immobilise skill but by the time it had finished the ele had vapor form back into keep, got up, had a coffee, climbed up the wall, jumped off the wall, attacked and ran back inside the keep.

I did find it amusing that a thief is complaining about this- the class that can stomp from stealth….

Victory.2879:

A lot of classes have few if any immobilises, and most will have used them prior to the downed state ele. My pet started casting it’s immobilise skill but by the time it had finished the ele had vapor form back into keep, got up, had a coffee, climbed up the wall, jumped off the wall, attacked and ran back inside the keep.

I did find it amusing that a thief is complaining about this- the class that can stomp from stealth….

Maybe because ele’s are one of the only ppl who he couldn’t stomp from stealth?
(because they retreat in tower, it’s still possible to stomp them with steal/signet as long as they are in clear view)

Vapor form can be dealt with once Elementalists are no longer mostly forced into cookie cutter specs. Even the bunker ele’s that just received a nerf, had less sustainability than glass cannons in other classes while having half the damage. Oh, and GC eles? I two shot them, even with the food most of them were exploiting to make it it somewhat viable to be GC.

I always found it funny that people complained about a bunker spec ele for being able to run away. Even funnier is that ANET nerfed them because of the complaints about them staying alive, hitting like a wet noodle, and being able to run away.

Yet GC rifle warriors hitting people for 14-20k+ depending on the gear of the player and one shotting low health pool classes is acceptable… or thieves still being able to do 15k burst against full Toughness/Vitality in a few seconds while disappearing into thin air only to stealth stomp someone they down. Or other thieves troll speccing for perma invisibility and being able screw around with 10 people with little risk as long as they are smart about it.

Perspective….. and ANET has little of it.

On that note that Elementalists are forced into cookie cutter builds, I’d have to agree and would perhaps remedy this with letting them use more weapons. Shortbow, axes, hammers, shields and greatswords are out due to conjures, so they could let us toy around with (in order of likeliness to happen) one-handed swords, longbows, maybe torches and maces? As it stands, we get two off-hand and main-hand weapons and the staff. Some more variety and some incentive to use something other than dagger/dagger or staff would be magnificent.

It is rather annoying that the strongest classes in the game also receive the best downed skills while the least powerful ones have to worst.

As if they don’t have enough as it is.

TheGreatA.4192:

It is rather annoying that the strongest classes in the game also receive the best downed skills while the least powerful ones have to worst.

As if they don’t have enough as it is.

The fact that eles have one of the best downed skills is because if you try to actually do some damage, you get downed a lot. They need it.

For example, as a Guardian I can rush through a zerg using teleportation and stun breakers + Aegis and rely on my much higher survivability to just plow through and reach the gate.

As an Ele, I get melted if I’m even remotely slow about it. One immobilize and that’s it. So I have Vapor form to compensate.

As a Guardian I can hop down in front of a gate, maybe drop the Wall, knock some heads around and dodge back in without immediately being blown up. As an elementalist, if I get pulled off a wall or decide to troll the attackers, Mist/Vapor form are pretty much my only options for staying alive.

So it balances out in the end. If your downed skills are weak, that’s because you don’t really need them that often.

Here’s your answer… Any dd ele should be targeted last. 99% of them are bunker builds do no damage. You can kill all the other classes faster.

As far as teleporting into the keep doors, is just a terrible flaw made by anet. No good answer other than it shouldn’t be allowed.

Definitely a case of “Search the forums/learn to play” I`m afraid.

Immobilize them, they won`t go anywhere.
If you`ve already used your Immobilize skill, then that isn`t the Elementalists fault, but don`t worry, too many QQers kittening about RTL got that whack-a-mole nerfed so no doubt Anet will do the same with Vapor Form.

P.S. This skill is only of use at a keep & is a complete waste of time anywhere else.
Ele` downed, casts Vapor Form, enemy mob/player just roleplay walks along side it & starts the downed action again. Dead Ele`.

What`s that you say? Ele` Vapor Form`d off of a cliff & into water whilst you stayed to fight the others.
Chase him, kill him, laugh at your free loot!

Offense meant but it isn`t that difficult.

At least they don’t get healed back up to 50% HP when they use it anymore.

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes. Having to chase a guy after you’ve already beaten them, and get focused by his teammates, is not something I enjoy to do in this game. When you go down you’re supposed to stay down unless you get ressed.

If you go down a lot as an ele, I’m afraid it’s you who has a l2p issue. A real skilled ele will not go down while destroying superior odds with relative ease. To get into a tower you have invulnerability and a blocking skill and stability, shouldn’t be awful hard.

TheGreatA.4192:

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes. Having to chase a guy after you’ve already beaten them, and get focused by his teammates, is not something I enjoy to do in this game. When you go down you’re supposed to stay down unless you get ressed.

If you go down a lot as an ele, I’m afraid it’s you who has a l2p issue. A real skilled ele will not go down while destroying superior odds with relative ease. To get into a tower you have invulnerability and a blocking skill and stability, shouldn’t be awful hard.

You can still stomp eles with a blink. There is no reason they should be able to make it back to their zerg alive.

Gab Superstar.4059:

You can still stomp eles with a blink. There is no reason they should be able to make it back to their zerg alive.

I don’t play a mesmer.

Sure there might be some counters to this, like an ever important immobilize skill that you just love to waste on a guy you already beat, or a skill one single class in the game utilizes for its main defense. But I’d prefer not to waste my skills on a stomp when there’s still other people to fight.

TheGreatA.4192:

Gab Superstar.4059:

You can still stomp eles with a blink. There is no reason they should be able to make it back to their zerg alive.

I don’t play a mesmer.

Other classes can do it too. I play a thief and I always use Shadowstep to stomp eles who Mist Form away. Makes for an easy escape from the enemy zerg as well.

TheGreatA.4192:

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes. Having to chase a guy after you’ve already beaten them, and get focused by his teammates, is not something I enjoy to do in this game. When you go down you’re supposed to stay down unless you get ressed.

If you go down a lot as an ele, I’m afraid it’s you who has a l2p issue. A real skilled ele will not go down while destroying superior odds with relative ease. To get into a tower you have invulnerability and a blocking skill and stability, shouldn’t be awful hard.

Actually, if you can’t and don’t 2/3 shot glass cannon eles and let them do damage to you unhindered, then the learn to play issue is on your side. I see a glass cannon ele… gap closer -> 2/3 shot. Done.

The only thing people have any right to remotely complain about is making it through keep doors. Outside of that, the down state is worthless.

Edit: Seriously, if you can’t and don’t kill a class with the lowest armor in the lowest health pool, in GC gear with no toughness and vitality…. l2p isn’t on anyone but you.

TheGreatA.4192:

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes. Having to chase a guy after you’ve already beaten them, and get focused by his teammates, is not something I enjoy to do in this game. When you go down you’re supposed to stay down unless you get ressed.

If you go down a lot as an ele, I’m afraid it’s you who has a l2p issue. A real skilled ele will not go down while destroying superior odds with relative ease.

Simply and utterly not true. A skilled ele will not go down easily if specced for it, but they won’t be destroying anything either. An ele who has the ability to destroy entire groups quickly (I’m one of them) WILL go down easily if focused by even remotely skilled players.

P.S And you don’t have that much survivability in 1vs1’s either.

Gaudrath.6725:

TheGreatA.4192:

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes. Having to chase a guy after you’ve already beaten them, and get focused by his teammates, is not something I enjoy to do in this game. When you go down you’re supposed to stay down unless you get ressed.

If you go down a lot as an ele, I’m afraid it’s you who has a l2p issue. A real skilled ele will not go down while destroying superior odds with relative ease.

Simply and utterly not true. A skilled ele will not go down easily if specced for it, but they won’t be destroying anything either. An ele who has the ability to destroy entire groups quickly (I’m one of them) WILL go down easily if focused by even remotely skilled players.

P.S And you don’t have that much survivability in 1vs1’s either.

This is truth.

Even post nerf, bunker eles are a pain to take down especially when using d/d (not as much with staff). However, they do garbage damage.

A GC ele can do good damage, not bursty like a thief or rifle warrior, but a reasonable amount given the CC abilities they have especially when staff. However, they have next to no health and can be 2/3 shot by most classes. Heck, a gc rifle warrior can easily one shot a GC ele from range. (hello 20k hit against a light armor, glass cannon ele with 11-14k health)

Gaudrath.6725:

Simply and utterly not true. A skilled ele will not go down easily if specced for it, but they won’t be destroying anything either. An ele who has the ability to destroy entire groups quickly (I’m one of them) WILL go down easily if focused by even remotely skilled players.

P.S And you don’t have that much survivability in 1vs1’s either.

covenn.7165:

Actually, if you can’t and don’t 2/3 shot glass cannon eles and let them do damage to you unhindered, then the learn to play issue is on your side. I see a glass cannon ele… gap closer -> 2/3 shot. Done.

The only thing people have any right to remotely complain about is making it through keep doors. Outside of that, the down state is worthless.

Edit: Seriously, if you can’t and don’t kill a class with the lowest armor in the lowest health pool, in GC gear with no toughness and vitality…. l2p isn’t on anyone but you.

Who said anything about glass cannons? Those are generally agreed to be pretty much trash.

You don’t have to go full bunker with ele to be survivable. Spec out a little toughness and vitality while retaining a viable damage output, and you are a beast. The class has enough innate defense not to need to be a full bunker build.

We have eles in our server that nobody will fight in a 1on1 because they will destroy you, likely even if you have a couple of teammates with you.

It seems like you only know two builds, glass cannon and full bunker. There is middle ground.

Let’s take for example Rizadon from Unity, he’s certainly not glass is he but his damage output isn’t exactly negligible, is it?

TheGreatA.4192:

Who said anything about glass cannons?

TheGreatA.4192

I reckon you’ve never been in zerg fights where a glass ele can run into a zerg and safely run back to their own zerg after going down like a sack of potatoes.

Well, I guess it was you who made this about glass cannons. That was a pretty sad attempt to try wheedle your way out of that though.

TheGreatA.4192:

Who said anything about glass cannons? Those are generally agreed to be pretty much trash.

You don’t have to go full bunker with ele to be survivable. Spec out a little toughness and vitality while retaining a viable damage output, and you are a beast. The class has enough innate defense not to need to be a full bunker build.

Of course there is a middle ground, slightly more damage for slightly less survivability. It doesn’t really change the argument about the subject matter.

D/D obviously can survive vastly better than staff regardless.

Syeria.4812:

Well, I guess it was you who made this about glass cannons. That was a pretty sad attempt to try wheedle your way out of that though.

Umm, no.

Please find the statement in which I say anything about glass cannon eles other than them being able to get out of harms way in a zerg fight despite going down like a sack of potatoes due to vapor form. How exactly does that statement argue for them being OP when it’s about them going down easily in the first place?

My argument is that when you go down, you’re supposed to stay down, and I think we all agree that going through keep doors while downed is rather annoying.

Another thing I said is that a skilled ele, not a cookie cutter bunker or glass cannon, can be a real beast in the game. You don’t have to be glass to do damage, and you don’t have to be a full bunker to be survivable.

If you think your ele goes down easy then you don’t know how to play the class or have the wrong build for your playing style.

Gaudrath.6725:

The fact that eles have one of the best downed skills is because if you try to actually do some damage, you get downed a lot. They need it.

For example, as a Guardian I can rush through a zerg using teleportation and stun breakers + Aegis and rely on my much higher survivability to just plow through and reach the gate.

As an Ele, I get melted if I’m even remotely slow about it. One immobilize and that’s it. So I have Vapor form to compensate.

As a Guardian I can hop down in front of a gate, maybe drop the Wall, knock some heads around and dodge back in without immediately being blown up. As an elementalist, if I get pulled off a wall or decide to troll the attackers, Mist/Vapor form are pretty much my only options for staying alive.

So it balances out in the end. If your downed skills are weak, that’s because you don’t really need them that often.

This is the most reasonable of the answers, I’d say. And while I agree with you, I still wonder why it is so much more powerful than other downed state skills. As a Guard you still could get locked down and have no way of limping back into the keep while invulnerable.

Victory.2879:

I did find it amusing that a thief is complaining about this- the class that can stomp from stealth….

Couple things: a) I’m not complaining, I’m looking for a discussion. b) I’d rather be able to stomp while invulerable 100% of the time. I can still take damage, be interrupted, etc. while in stealth. c) Whether or not I can stomp from stealth is completely irrelevant to this topic.

Jscull.2514:

Here’s your answer… Any dd ele should be targeted last. 99% of them are bunker builds do no damage. You can kill all the other classes faster.

As far as teleporting into the keep doors, is just a terrible flaw made by anet. No good answer other than it shouldn’t be allowed.

Pssssttt….Dont let everyone know about this. Im usually first target and that allows others to kill the enemies while i run around

Fishbait.6723:

Definitely a case of “Search the forums/learn to play” I`m afraid.

Immobilize them, they won`t go anywhere.
If you`ve already used your Immobilize skill, then that isn`t the Elementalists fault, but don`t worry, too many QQers kittening about RTL got that whack-a-mole nerfed so no doubt Anet will do the same with Vapor Form.

P.S. This skill is only of use at a keep & is a complete waste of time anywhere else.
Ele` downed, casts Vapor Form, enemy mob/player just roleplay walks along side it & starts the downed action again. Dead Ele`.

What`s that you say? Ele` Vapor Form`d off of a cliff & into water whilst you stayed to fight the others.
Chase him, kill him, laugh at your free loot!

Offense meant but it isn`t that difficult.

Figured I’d have to respond to this in full.

Really not a l2p issue, because I don’t have and have never had any problem with Eles.

My only current immobilize is from Stealth, which means I get the revealed debuff after I use it. But that’s not what concerns me. I find it entirely acceptable that I have to use an immobilize to lock one down. Being able to handle any class or situation is something good players can spec for and do. I don’t ever get ganked by Thieves and I never have problems with bunker Eles (other than them taking longer to kill).

What concerns me is that the Ele can use Vapor Form to go through the glowing portal into a tower from the downed state.

They should get stopped at the gate. Entering in the downed state is an advantage no other class shares without penalty.

As for a waste of time, pretty much all downed state skills are in most situations. They just buy you a little time to rally off an NPC or die a few seconds later.

And as I’m assuming you’ve fought in water before, I’m sure you recognize that it’s a lot slower killing someone in water downed state than it is on land. Jumping in after the Ele would have meant having to burn the Ele down while in the water—completely exposed (as a Thief with very little HP that usually means death) and without stealth (again death). No I’m not GC, so don’t bother trying to disregard my argument and attack me there. If it were possible to finish someone under water as quickly as on land this wouldn’t have been mentioned. But since it isn’t, it becomes an example of how an Ele can use Vapor Form to gain an advantage from the downed state. That’s a bit too powerful. He should have been stopped at the cliff, if anything.

All I’m trying to say is that Eles shouldn’t be able to gain that advantage. Again, if someone presents a good enough argument why they should, I’m willing to listen. Otherwise I still hold that they shouldn’t be able to enter towers/keeps and should be more limited by terrain. Besides that there isn’t an issue with Vapor Form.

My only current immobilize is from Stealth.

What concerns me is that the Ele can use Vapor Form to go through the glowing portal into a tower from the downed state.

They should get stopped at the gate. Entering in the downed state is an advantage no other class shares without penalty.

All I’m trying to say is that Eles shouldn’t be able to gain that advantage. Again, if someone presents a good enough argument why they should, I’m willing to listen. Otherwise I still hold that they shouldn’t be able to enter towers/keeps and should be more limited by terrain.

Here is an argument your looking for.
We have ONE advantageous ability that helps us survive and only in limited situations.

How about Thief being able to stomp from invis. How many extra kills do you get from this? Something no other class can do, so since our ability that no other class can use need to be nerfed maybe his one needs nerfing too?

It’s a pathetic argument “No one else can do it so its got to go.”

All classes have abilities to do different things or why create different classes.

QQ less and learn to minimize DMG from other classes abilities.

Diashame.6328:

Here is an argument your looking for.
We have ONE advantageous ability that helps us survive and only in limited situations.

How about Thief being able to stomp from invis. How many extra kills do you get from this? Something no other class can do, so since our ability that no other class can use need to be nerfed maybe his one needs nerfing too?

It’s a pathetic argument “No one else can do it so its got to go.”

All classes have abilities to do different things or why create different classes.

QQ less and learn to minimize DMG from other classes abilities.

I suggest you actually read my posts.

Because everything you just said is completely off topic, has been responded to, or wrong because you misread. Stuff like this is unproductive and has no use in a thread trying to generate serious conversation.

The Thief stealth stomp is a classic GW2 Strawman. Go look it up. Then be less offended and offensive and get back to topic.

But just for argument’s sake, look at the video TheGreatA.4192 posted. Mist Form stomp > Stealth stomp. As is Elixir S. If at the 2:50 mark a Thief were Invised trying to stomp, he’d be absolutely rolled.

Fizzlepip.5218:

Diashame.6328:

Here is an argument your looking for.
We have ONE advantageous ability that helps us survive and only in limited situations.

How about Thief being able to stomp from invis. How many extra kills do you get from this? Something no other class can do, so since our ability that no other class can use need to be nerfed maybe his one needs nerfing too?

It’s a pathetic argument “No one else can do it so its got to go.”

All classes have abilities to do different things or why create different classes.

QQ less and learn to minimize DMG from other classes abilities.

I suggest you actually read my posts.

Because everything you just said is completely off topic, has been responded to, or wrong because you misread. Stuff like this is unproductive and has no use in a thread trying to generate serious conversation.

The Thief stealth stomp is a classic GW2 Strawman. Go look it up. Then be less offended and offensive and get back to topic.

But just for argument’s sake, look at the video TheGreatA.4192 posted. Mist Form stomp > Stealth stomp. As is Elixir S. If at the 2:50 mark a Thief were Invised trying to stomp, he’d be absolutely rolled.

Wow , chillout bro, heres a bong

style.6173:

Agreed. Down state players should not be able to run into towers or keeps.

Eles are already the strongest class in WvW (remember the recent nerfs to sPvP didn’t impact WvW).

Unfortunately you are misinformed, grossly so in fact.

1. Before the nerfs, Eles were behind several classes in WvW. Sure a bunker ele was tough 1v1 by out lasting players or being able to run away., however W3 is not about 1v1.

2. Most of the ele nerfs affected WvW and saying otherwise means you don’t understand the class. Less fury, less swiftness, less regeneration, and less mobility is a nerf any way you look at it. You probably look at things like the frost aura change and think Ele’s got a boost without realizing that even with the 10% damage reduction added to the aura, the net change was still negative due to the cool down put on the proc.

Please be fair and don’t speak about something if you don’t fully understand mechanics of a class.

Fizzlepip.5218:

They should get stopped at the gate. Entering in the downed state is an advantage no other class shares without penalty.

This is not entirely true. You are forgetting the downstate ability of another class.

lol I’m cool. I just had lunch. Sorry if it sounds like I’m raging. I’m not.

Just trying to forcefully nip those “omgstopQQing” posts before they turn into silly arguments. I’m genuinely interested in what I posted and would like people to read them and respond accordingly instead of coming at me personally.

Unfortunately that’s just what happens in forums…

Because I’m not complaining and not calling for a Vapor Form nerf. I’m asking why Eles should be able to enter keeps from the downed state. Other than that it’s really fine as it is.

covenn.7165:

This is not entirely true. You are forgetting the downstate ability of another class.

Kitten. Which one am I missing? Warriors can enter but generally die soon after. Plus they can be killed while in Vengeance.

In the meantime, I’ll be sitting here with my engis downed skills…. the one that pulls the opponent to me x.x
All the strong classes have awesome downed abilities, it’s really quite depressing as a engi player

Fizzlepip.5218:

Kitten. Which one am I missing? Warriors can enter but generally die soon after. Plus they can be killed while in Vengeance.

They don’t always die soon after…… and if the get up and through a portal where nobody is hitting them. Sure you can immobilize him like an ele Of course a downed ele doesn’t have the option of getting back him and kicking your kitten in either. Heh

Digikid.7230:

In the meantime, I’ll be sitting here with my engis downed skills…. the one that pulls the opponent to me x.x
All the strong classes have awesome downed abilities, it’s really quite depressing as a engi player

Yeah that one still shocks me.

I made an Engie because I wanted to try something fun. Got downed when in mid-20s & moused over skills & thought “wtf!? That has to be a tooltip error”.

It got deleted very shortly after.

Fishbait.6723:

That has to be a tooltip error".

Devs gave the Engi all the other professions’ discarded downed skills. It has to be.

Don’t worry. You can blow them up! (…5 seconds after you were stomped when the skill’s CD ends.)

Warriors can do similar near door. Sure they still take damage, but chance is still there to survive and they’re probably the toughest class in the game, not that I care since it makes sense.

As far as I can tell and heard, it’s mostly bad ele’s who use it like this. I can’t think of a situation where I’d deliberately fight just outside safety when I can just bombard from inside with a Staff. I might be D/D but the class is not made for mass frontline fighting which I’ll leave to tankier classes. The only time I’d do Vapour-into-door, is if I’ve been trying to run from enemy and get downed, and if they’re smart they try to keep me out of range of being able to do so.

Think of ele’s who do this constantly as the thieves who spam two buttons. Relying on one or two skills to survive means you are a bad player IMO.

covenn.7165:

Fizzlepip.5218:

Kitten. Which one am I missing? Warriors can enter but generally die soon after. Plus they can be killed while in Vengeance.

They don’t always die soon after…… and if the get up and through a portal where nobody is hitting them. Sure you can immobilize him like an ele Of course a downed ele doesn’t have the option of getting back him and kicking your kitten in either. Heh

If a Warrior runs in without killing anything he’ll just die when Vengeance wears off…?

nglcpyro.4906:

As far as I can tell and heard, it’s mostly bad ele’s who use it like this. I can’t think of a situation where I’d deliberately fight just outside safety when I can just bombard from inside with a Staff.

You are on the wall with a Staff and get pulled down.

TheGreatA.4192:

his damage output isn’t exactly negligible, is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0EbWDWcQo

I made it as far as the 2619 damage fire grab crit, before going “YUP!”

A glass ele hits for 12-15k with fire grab.

The small annoyance of people doing this is cancelled out by the malicious joy you feel when they get the distance wrong and come out of mist form just by the entrance xD

Caffynated.5713:

I made it as far as the 2619 damage fire grab crit, before going “YUP!”

A glass ele hits for 12-15k with fire grab.

Every class in glass cannon gear does nice damage. Thing is people made it out to be as if an ele can only be either extremely glassy or do no damage. You’re not forced to be a full bunker build in order to be survivable.

Gaudrath.6725:

TheGreatA.4192:

It is rather annoying that the strongest classes in the game also receive the best downed skills while the least powerful ones have to worst.

As if they don’t have enough as it is.

The fact that eles have one of the best downed skills is because if you try to actually do some damage, you get downed a lot. They need it.

Can you give us your opinion about Warriors?

Visiroth.5914:

covenn.7165:

Fizzlepip.5218:

Kitten. Which one am I missing? Warriors can enter but generally die soon after. Plus they can be killed while in Vengeance.

They don’t always die soon after…… and if the get up and through a portal where nobody is hitting them. Sure you can immobilize him like an ele Of course a downed ele doesn’t have the option of getting back him and kicking your kitten in either. Heh

If a Warrior runs in without killing anything he’ll just die when Vengeance wears off…?

And? He can still be ressed. It takes a few seconds longer than ressing the ele, but the end result is the same.

Vayra.3290:

Visiroth.5914:

covenn.7165:

Fizzlepip.5218:

Kitten. Which one am I missing? Warriors can enter but generally die soon after. Plus they can be killed while in Vengeance.

They don’t always die soon after…… and if the get up and through a portal where nobody is hitting them. Sure you can immobilize him like an ele Of course a downed ele doesn’t have the option of getting back him and kicking your kitten in either. Heh

If a Warrior runs in without killing anything he’ll just die when Vengeance wears off…?

And? He can still be ressed. It takes a few seconds longer than ressing the ele, but the end result is the same.

Warriors can actually be killed in vengeance. End result is the same if the warrior can get to the portal without getting snared and killed in vengeance or killed in down-state while waiting for the 8 second cooldown on vengeance

Playing a thief to 80. Really I can’t find anything to complain about the other classes lol….