Guild Wars 2

If Druid stats remotely the same as it is now, what is the purpose of the water line for ele anymore? With all of the cripples bleeds and immobile, it’s earth and water line combined

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

Deth.4109:

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.

The Great Al.2546:

Deth.4109:

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.

So what, doesnt mean you cant top it off with your support.

It almost covers the entire line of both water and earth combined. They even have glyphs superior than the ele’s glyphs.

FYI this is now a d/d qq post. I’m simply concerned that if a druid is in the party (and it will) we lose a majority of the classes mechanic of support. Unless auras are buffed in some way with the incoming changes, it’d going to be hard to out support a druid. The exception is might stacking possibly.

Purecura.1795:

The Great Al.2546:

Deth.4109:

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.

So what, doesnt mean you cant top it off with your support.

I honestly don’t see auras as a good enough support. Not to mention the base class can spread auras just/almost as well as the elite specialization.

Other than Magnetic Aura, all other auras are kinda useless in pve.

Purecura.1795:

The Great Al.2546:

Deth.4109:

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.

So what, doesnt mean you cant top it off with your support.

That is to assume you haven’t been kicked yet.

Eles still remain the best might stacking class in game, not even herald stack it as fast as them

At least one of protection/swiftness/retribution should be inherent bonus to anyone who is granted an aura, with the option through traits to give the others.

Fire aura (probably the most easily obtained one) by itself is fairly useless.

As a staff elementalist, nothing on the wiki bothers me much. They have 1 combo water field and no real hard cc. The entire spec is built around healing and soft cc.

PvE content is not hard enough to justify a full support character.

They will complement staff elementalists in WvW, but not replace them, because of their lack of combo fields and hard aoe cc.

And there isn’t enough information about their trait line to tell whether or not they are going to have the personal survivability to be an effective bunker support in pvp.

I’m actually happy. I hope this works out for them. Rangers have been the GW2 red headed stepchildren for far too long.

MadRabbit.3179:

As a staff elementalist, nothing on the wiki bothers me much. They have 1 combo water field and no real hard cc. The entire spec is built around healing and soft cc.

PvE content is not hard enough to justify a full support character.

They will complement staff elementalists in WvW, but not replace them, because of their lack of combo fields and hard aoe cc.

And there isn’t enough information about their trait line to tell whether or not they are going to have the personal survivability to be an effective bunker support in pvp.

I’m actually happy. I hope this works out for them. Rangers have been the GW2 red headed stepchildren for far too long.

This! In some MMOs you have 2 types of Healers. I see GW2 Elementalist and Druids being the go to Support classes. Its just up to you on how you wish to SUPPORT!

They just need to make tempest about storms right now. I think the only way to save it and make it worthwhile is:

1- Increase by a very large amount the radius on overload.
2- Make the warhorn skills 1200 range large aoe, ground target-able
3- add damage modifiers potential at least equal to the arcane line (16-20%)

with druid i would be happy if they removed all that group support blah stuff from tempest and make it into an aoe cc damage elite specialisation instead of that.. whatever it is supposed to be right now.

we have enough group support if we want it, time for something new please.

The point:

1. Defensive Frost aura and Regeneration for self.
2. A heal on swapping to Water, even if we swap right out of it.
3. 10% damage boost while above 90% or super defensive Cantrips
4. Colossal condi management with Condi removal on Regen give our massive sources of Regen

Elementalists don’t sit in Water and just heal. None of that functionality changes because another class gains healing abilities. All this shows is when they want a class to be healing oriented, such as Druid, you will really see a proper healing setup.

Hopefully this will show people that Tempest is an Aura bot and nothing more.

The Great Al.2546:

Deth.4109:

just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.

It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.

Welcome to the world Rangers have been living in for the last 3 years. Enjoy your stay

If you like to play Ele support by camping in Water and tossing out heals, then yeah, the Druid is going to do your job better than you.

If you play Ele support by making full use of everything available to us, though, you should be just fine.

The water line did not become useless just because of the druid. Have there ever been any effective elementalists that have only provided healing to their group before? Of course not, healing has just been a part of the versatile elementalist toolkit and even the water spec has plenty of traits that have nothing to do with healing.

The only effect that the druid reveal has had on elementalists is that it highlighted that the tempest is not a healer spec. It’s supposed to provide other means of support, likely focused on auras with a little boon and healing support on the side because the 4 ele auras are simply not good enough to make a spec on their own.

Auras have plenty of problems atm and that is the downfall of a spec focusing on them.

-The biggest problem is that all of them except frost aura do not stack in duration which is incredibly counterproductive and makes it extremely hard to make a proper build focused around them.

-Tempest itself doesn’t have enough sources of aura application. There either needs to be more aura application incorporated into its skills or something that extends the duration of auras.

-Most auras do not have unique effects and can thus be directly compared to boon and condition application or even reflect fields from other professions or specs. Only frost aura, which gives -10% damage on top of any other reductions is completely unique. The other effects of the auras usually come short of other methods of application.

For my final point, the tempest will likely need some trait that gives auras something else that is unique. Otherwise, the tempest will only ever have a chance of being useful in raids. The reason why tempest might be useful in raids regardless of the mediocrity of auras is because I suspect that there will be a lot of fights with many quick attacks that don’t deal that much damage. These kinds of fights make dodges and blocks much less useful and reserved only for the one-shot mechanics, while making druid healing mandatory. Such quick attack patterns also means that auras will constantly provide their effects, potentially competing with direct application of their effects from other specs and professions.

Druid = remove water traits?
I need my condi cleanse.

Kodiak.3281:

The point:

1. Defensive Frost aura and Regeneration for self.
2. A heal on swapping to Water, even if we swap right out of it.
3. 10% damage boost while above 90% or super defensive Cantrips
4. Colossal condi management with Condi removal on Regen give our massive sources of Regen

Elementalists don’t sit in Water and just heal. None of that functionality changes because another class gains healing abilities. All this shows is when they want a class to be healing oriented, such as Druid, you will really see a proper healing setup.

Hopefully this will show people that Tempest is an Aura bot and nothing more.

This is what I was thinking with my short time as an elementalist when I tried this game before it seemed like you can heal some while still doing crazy damage and some cc, what is so bad about this? A druid has to transform and has healing abilities enchanced in the form itself.

Water magic is one of 4 stances. You use the skills up and swap out of there, so it does have a function… stop whining.

Idk guys, I’ve been playing around with a cleric staff tempest, and the amount of healing I was putting out was pretty awesome. 800/sec from auto attack + surging mists alone, then water 3 and 5, water overload, shouts with heal on aura application, heal shout, the occasional blast finisher on ice/water fields, maybe evasive arcana.
I can nearly camp water and always have a heal skill up, occasionally I was switching to earth for protection application, earth 3 aura and combos with earth 2 and 5. And all the while I could switch to air for cc/swiftness or fire for meteor shower or a fire field for might stacking.

Seems pretty solid to me!

Blaine Tog.8304:

If you like to play Ele support by camping in Water and tossing out heals, then yeah, the Druid is going to do your job better than you.

If you play Ele support by making full use of everything available to us, though, you should be just fine.

You imply that it’s not okay to camp in one kind of attunement 80% of the time, but glass staff eles do exactly that.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Blaine Tog.8304:

If you like to play Ele support by camping in Water and tossing out heals, then yeah, the Druid is going to do your job better than you.

If you play Ele support by making full use of everything available to us, though, you should be just fine.

You imply that it’s not okay to camp in one kind of attunement 80% of the time, but glass staff eles do exactly that.

Glass staff Eles, as I understand it, camp in Fire for heavy Lava Font and autoattack uptime, switching to another attunement primarily for utility. They can get away with this because Lava Font and the Fire autos hit incredibly hard.

Camping in Water, on the other hand, will net you mediocre healing at best, as the healing from the autoattack isn’t enough to counteract significant burst. If you plan on playing as a Support Ele, you’re going to need to cycle between Water, Air, and Earth to make use of our various CC options (as well as the Blast finishers in Earth). If you camp in Water, you’re going to be bringing very little to your team, certainly not as much as a Staff Druid who occasionally pops into Astral form for even better healing.

Water line has been fairly weak long before Tempest. Elementalist is simply a bad choice as a healer, it pretty much always has been. If you want to be a long range healer, use Druid, or Ventari, or even Engineer. If you want to do potentially the most DPS in the game, however, then stick to Elementalist.

The purpose of water trait line is to keep us from disappearing from the game outside of PvE. Delete water trait line = banish Elementalists to PvE permanently. Water train line is survivability for a large portion of eles or else we flop over and die in seconds.

I disagree with the OP’s sentiment completely. Eles aren’t meant to be “best healers in the game.” Eles have good healing/cleanse and boon support for the team, water fields when necessary, some cc, and good damage. A druid will bring more healing, but an ele brings more damage, offensive support (might/fury), and enough water fields for teams to blast for full health when needed.

Tested druid. Jesus the heal is incredible

Tested Druid as well. The healing is off the hook, especially in celestial form.

I tested the Druid, don’t delete the water line.

As it is, soothing mist stacks with everything except soothing mist, your basic attack is an excellent buff heal every 3/4th seconds.

Not to mention if you learn to rotate your skills as you should, you can supply a steady stream of AoE DPS, in addition to healing.

Water synergies very well with Druid, but Druid is not a replacement for a healing Ele.

If anything if druid invalidates it they likely will have to either nerf druid heavily or buff ele. Highly doubt that druid will do that though. What good is pure healing except in PvE? Maybe WvW (though usually things will die before you can heal that much).

Also, Druid is a pure healing spec That is literally almost all of what they do while Ele has three other attunements that do good things.

Senario.2038:

Also, Druid is a pure healing spec That is literally almost all of what they do while Ele has three other attunements that do good things.

This. The Druid should have better healing than us, because we have a lot more going for us than just healing.

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Important and adding to the role of the tempest this healing is very mobile.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Tempest oddly is realy good burst dmg and heal (not at the same time mind you.) Water overload and shouts is very powerful healing all at once. Air overload is realy good dmg and if build right lets you land big hits after your dong casting it.

What tempest lets you do though is go all in on healing / support but you keep a lot of DPS dmg somthing druid needs to give up.

What druid will end up doing is make condition cleaning not as must have for ele you can still run all in water line but now you can take thing like powerful aura and with its 600 ranges it works on all wepon sets.

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Tempest oddly is realy good burst dmg and heal (not at the same time mind you.) Water overload and shouts is very powerful healing all at once. Air overload is realy good dmg and if build right lets you land big hits after your dong casting it.

What tempest lets you do though is go all in on healing / support but you keep a lot of DPS dmg somthing druid needs to give up.

What druid will end up doing is make condition cleaning not as must have for ele you can still run all in water line but now you can take thing like powerful aura and with its 600 ranges it works on all wepon sets.

Any dps loss is hard to compare as elementalist has the best dps in the game.

However, the druid is not giving up anything in terms of trait lines.

Your standard power survival build runs the two defensive lines and beastmastery. A marksmanship/druid/x gives up one defensive line in favour of the more offensive marksmanship, a suitable variant in the original build. And they give up one defensive line in favour of the more defensive druid line. Most likely they take beastmastery and the build has only swapped one defensive line for another.

I don’t get what people are concerned they are losing in dps.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Tempest oddly is realy good burst dmg and heal (not at the same time mind you.) Water overload and shouts is very powerful healing all at once. Air overload is realy good dmg and if build right lets you land big hits after your dong casting it.

What tempest lets you do though is go all in on healing / support but you keep a lot of DPS dmg somthing druid needs to give up.

What druid will end up doing is make condition cleaning not as must have for ele you can still run all in water line but now you can take thing like powerful aura and with its 600 ranges it works on all wepon sets.

Any dps loss is hard to compare as elementalist has the best dps in the game.

However, the druid is not giving up anything in terms of trait lines.

Your standard power survival build runs the two defensive lines and beastmastery. A marksmanship/druid/x gives up one defensive line in favour of the more offensive marksmanship, a suitable variant in the original build. And they give up one defensive line in favour of the more defensive druid line. Most likely they take beastmastery and the build has only swapped one defensive line for another.

I don’t get what people are concerned they are losing in dps.

Ele has realy good burst and zone dps tempest even if you do not build for dmg dose a lot of dmg due to overloads its kind of crazy how much these do dmg even if your not build for it.

What druid gives up is more ranged base. A lot of its “good” heal is in the 300 ranges where ranger and druid weapons tend to be 1,200 ranged. You give up the abitly to sit back in an safe ranges if you want to realy heal/support and dmg. Tempest can be in the melee and heal well as well as being some what an healer in the back line with staff. The boon of having water fields on grond targets effect vs just having it on you.

I am thinking scraper may be the best melee water class in the game though for wvw it may become part of the GWEN set up so GWEtNrs (some one got to think of a good word to spell there i sux at spelling lol).

funny how the other forums are talking about how the druid can’t compete with water fields. the grass is always greener I guess…

also…. speeeecccculllaaaatiiiiooonnn!!!!1!

vespers.1759:

funny how the other forums are talking about how the druid can’t compete with water fields. the grass is always greener I guess…

also…. speeeecccculllaaaatiiiiooonnn!!!!1!

The problem with blasting water fields is that it can take people out of their rotation and force the group to waste blast finishers just to heal. Not to mention this type of healing isn’t very mobile. Water blasting will always give the most overall healing burst but that is because of the two sacrifices I already mentioned. With a cleric Druid, players don’t have to shift from doing what they are doing to blast water fields to get solid heals.

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Tempest oddly is realy good burst dmg and heal (not at the same time mind you.) Water overload and shouts is very powerful healing all at once. Air overload is realy good dmg and if build right lets you land big hits after your dong casting it.

What tempest lets you do though is go all in on healing / support but you keep a lot of DPS dmg somthing druid needs to give up.

What druid will end up doing is make condition cleaning not as must have for ele you can still run all in water line but now you can take thing like powerful aura and with its 600 ranges it works on all wepon sets.

Any dps loss is hard to compare as elementalist has the best dps in the game.

However, the druid is not giving up anything in terms of trait lines.

Your standard power survival build runs the two defensive lines and beastmastery. A marksmanship/druid/x gives up one defensive line in favour of the more offensive marksmanship, a suitable variant in the original build. And they give up one defensive line in favour of the more defensive druid line. Most likely they take beastmastery and the build has only swapped one defensive line for another.

I don’t get what people are concerned they are losing in dps.

Ele has realy good burst and zone dps tempest even if you do not build for dmg dose a lot of dmg due to overloads its kind of crazy how much these do dmg even if your not build for it.

What druid gives up is more ranged base. A lot of its “good” heal is in the 300 ranges where ranger and druid weapons tend to be 1,200 ranged. You give up the abitly to sit back in an safe ranges if you want to realy heal/support and dmg. Tempest can be in the melee and heal well as well as being some what an healer in the back line with staff. The boon of having water fields on grond targets effect vs just having it on you.

I am thinking scraper may be the best melee water class in the game though for wvw it may become part of the GWEN set up so GWEtNrs (some one got to think of a good word to spell there i sux at spelling lol).

You are wrong on ranger weapons as greatsword is just as powerful as longbow. And a tempest has to be in melee for most of their heals. Ranged placement of water fields means nothing in mobile encounters.

origin.1496:

It almost covers the entire line of both water and earth combined. They even have glyphs superior than the ele’s glyphs.

FYI this is now a d/d qq post. I’m simply concerned that if a druid is in the party (and it will) we lose a majority of the classes mechanic of support. Unless auras are buffed in some way with the incoming changes, it’d going to be hard to out support a druid. The exception is might stacking possibly.

This one has got to be a joke. Druid glyphs are really really bad. Only the daze glyph has some use in PvP, other than that, druid glyphs are useless.

I love it.

Ranger gets Druid and everyone in its forum wants to whine about it because their damage still isn’t top tier or something.

Eles gets Tempest and everyone in its forum whines nonstop that Druid is going to take away all of their team viability and make them unwanted.

And everyone begins to throw around math while screaming.

I think I’m watching an Internet preschool.

Mercurias.1826:

I love it.

Ranger gets Druid and everyone in its forum wants to whine about it because their damage still isn’t top tier or something.

Eles gets Tempest and everyone in its forum whines nonstop that Druid is going to take away all of their team viability and make them unwanted.

And everyone begins to throw around math while screaming.

I think I’m watching an Internet preschool.

Well druid takes some healing away but that is all it dose other then condition removal in an group. Tempest heals and boons support and does good dps even when not build for it.
My problem with druid is its main wepon (staff) dose not fit its other healing tools and over all GW2 healing. GW2 healing seems like its more of a melee tool then an ranged caster tool water field blasting still a major healing effect so unless you can cast it at a ranged like staff ele you got to be in there to make it useful for your team. That and if you cant put out some type of def boon such as protection your heals are going to be less effective at keeping ppl alive over all.
These are things tempest can do melee healing and high def buff both in protection and added +10% from frost auras (other auras who have effect on melee hit help too but more as an cc effect then any thing else).

Water attunement will still be strong in a PvP sense. In PvE mass AOE healing was only demanded early on in the games life because people were still learning how to utilize movement. Even then the guardian argue-ably does it better.

Druid simply gives the ranger a form of allied healing support it was lacking before, nothing more.