Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

If they want a point to start to help out the “more damage oriented” elementalist. An idea to start with.

Did you know that Tempest Defense grants a 20% damage increased on Stunned and Knockdowned and Dazed foes? The only issue is that those does not include Knockback, Launch, Pull, Float, Taunt, Fear, Sink.

I believe it’s a big issue and giving that damage increase would truly benefit the class. Knockdown, Stuns and Daze do not represent the large variety of crowd-control the class has.

Lets see the sort of CC per weapons.

Warhorn
Tidal Surge: A high damaging Knockback. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Cyclone: A high damaging Pull. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Staff
Gust: A knockback. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Unsteady Ground: A knockback. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Static Field: A stun. Tempest Defense works.

Scepter
No Crowd Control.

Focus
Comet: A Daze. Tempest Defense works.

Gale: A Knockdown. Tempest Defense works.

Dagger
Shocking Aura: A stun. Tempest Defense works.

Updraft: A lauch. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Earthquake: A Knockdown. Tempest Defense works.

Conjured Weapons

Magnetic Surge: A Daze. Tempest Defense works.

Magnetic Shield: A Pull. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Deep Freeze: Counts as a Stun. Tempest Defense works.

Wind Blast: A launch. It will not benefit from Tempest Defense damage increase, nor will do for Lightning Rod following.

Static Field: A Stun. Tempest Defense works.

Results

Out of 15 Crowd Controlling abilities, only 8 out of them will work with Tempest Defense. Warhorn and Staff get the shortest part of the stick. 33% of the staff skills work with Tempest Defense. As for warhorn, 0% of the skills work with Tempest Defense, and those skill deal the most damage. It is as if the Devs expected Tempest Defense to increase those high damage without noticing that Tempest Defense does not benefit them.

Alerie Despins

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: Zintrothen.1056

Zintrothen.1056

Good analysis. Let’s hope the devs see this. I know they will, but let’s also hope they actually realize it and make changes. I know they won’t. I guess they thought Eles would want to use Dagger/Focus with the Air traitline. Though it makes sense that some weapons benefit from a trait more than others. It’s just the nature of having different skills on different weapons.

The main problem with Eles right now is exactly the same problem that HoT has over all. TOO MUCH DAMAGE! You need Earth and Water to survive, or be ready to run away a lot. There’re so many conditions flying around and so many stuns lining up into incredibly hard hitting power burst. If you’re not specced for protection on auras, you won’t live long. And if you don’t spec for cleansing on aura (which btw requires at least 2 traits), then you better be really good at dodging condition attacks, which is impossible with all the stuns flying around.

The ONLY damage Ele spec I’ve found that works against just about anyone is Demo or Marauder Staff using Earth/Water/Tempest. The amulet will depend on enemy comp. Staff has the range to stay away from danger, and it’s great for CCing and kiting.

It’s really too bad that you either have to run Focus or Staff with Earth and Water to survive. If powercreep was reduced, other options may become viable. With less condition spamming, we could spec Air or Fire and not have to worry as much about being condi bombed every 3 seconds. If power damage was reduced, we could spec out of Earth and not have to worry as much about being power bursted every 3 seconds. Though Earth will probably still be necessary due its incredible synergy with Tempest. I think one solution is to simply rearrange the 40% protection trait with the stability on overload. Overloads should always grant at most 1 stack, but having 40% protection and protection on overload should be a choice with vigor/regen on aura. Or hell, they could make that a GM trait, so we don’t have to pick healing on aura. It’s this perfect synergy that forces us into certain traits. Reduce some of that synergy and we can finally choose. This should go for other specs on all professions. Trickery on Thief is mandatory because without it, they lose 3 extra total initiative and about 10 seconds off Steal’s CD, but no more boon strip and dazing with steal. In this case, it’s not about synergy; it’s about a traits being too good to give up. They need to make some things baseline or nerf them (nerf! NERF!)

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: FrownyClown.8402

FrownyClown.8402

I’ve given up on anet tbh. All the suggestions I make on the forums to improve certain traitlines/utilities and all they listen to is reducing the cd of arcane shield (not even the trait either). Scepter dps builds are so close if they would just stop trying to play it safe and go the extra mile for once.

Tempest defense does look more appealing after the cd nerfs though.


Bad Elementalist

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

I’ve given up on anet tbh. All the suggestions I make on the forums to improve certain traitlines/utilities and all they listen to is reducing the cd of arcane shield (not even the trait either). Scepter dps builds are so close if they would just stop trying to play it safe and go the extra mile for once.

Tempest defense does look more appealing after the cd nerfs though.

Not reducing the Arcane Shield on the trait is another example of half-measure compensation buffs. Just look at Imbued Melody’s active component working on other weapons, but not the 20% boon duration.

Alerie Despins

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: Glenstorm.4059

Glenstorm.4059

As someone who desperately wants to run a Lightning Rod Warhorn build, I fully agree with OP and hope Anet buffs TD to work with all disables.

While they’re at it, I hope Anet speeds up the animations on Tidal Surge and Cyclone, gives Cyclone a slightly wider AoE and makes Earth Shield an instant cast and Stun break.

The pessimist in me says that even if Anet manages to buff Ele DPS capabilities, it will still not be meta since a) it will have to give up a lot of support to do damage, and b) it will lose a team spot to DD, which is more mobile, has great burst and better survivability since it doesn’t have to soak and heal damage.

I hope I’m wrong.

Fear the might of SHATTERSTONE.

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

There is just no point anymore.
Why play a class that has less defenses, less hp and does less damage? It was clear at the beginning that the elementalist was the squishiest and did the most damage. To simplify: it was understood by everyone that it was a risk/reward class. Now if you remove the reward portion of that you end up with a broken game.

In HoT they turned that upside down, but they didn’t have a solid enough idea to make it work so they are struggling with numbers while it’s the entire concept of Tempest they have to start over because, on top of that, it’s a design that also works against the class core mechanic.

It’s more complex than that obviously, the elementalist only worked in the old trait system. The original developers of the system understood that.

From a number perspective Anet balances class around PvE bosses that stand still. Some skills that were barely usable in PvP like Ice Bow were completely rendered useless, in that case by an excessive 50% nerf. That says a lot, because if you cannot even balance numbers right how can you expect to have great success with gameplay.

This is why all the passive application of condis and easy to play classes are dominating pvp. Because the aptitude of Anet for balancing classes and skills now stops right there at changing numbers (it used to be different).

Judging by the decline of build variety in the latest balance changes it seems that when they release a new balance patch it’s more about marketing a new release than anything else.

(edited by Xillllix.3485)

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Um not many PvE bosses stand still anymore, sure some you can guide with aggro mechanics but a lot do not stay still.

Raid wing 1:
Vale Guardian – moves around in phase 3, moving needed in phase 2 but less than 3.
Gorseval – Needs moving a lot if using up drafts, no moving needed on no updraft.
Sabetha – no moving needed.

Raid wing 2:
Slothazor – lots of moving here and guiding into safe areas.
Bandits – not much moving for the actual bosses.
Matthias – far too chaotic to not move especially with the bugs atm.

Raid wing 3:
Macleod – fair bit of moving on the way there and at the boss.
Keep Construct – a fair bit of movement but not in the DPS phase.
Xera – fair bit of moving back and forth between safe areas and murder areas.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not for things like nerfing ice bow and leaving it largely unusable in PvP/WvW and a host of other things but it’s not entirely true that they’re useless because of PvE. Certainly not because bosses don’t move. It’s largely because they need more creative and new blood in the balance team that not only see that something is too strong but also works to make it better in areas is is never used.

Ele DPS trait: Unknown, Outdated. Why bother?

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

I’ve given up on anet tbh. All the suggestions I make on the forums to improve certain traitlines/utilities and all they listen to is reducing the cd of arcane shield (not even the trait either). Scepter dps builds are so close if they would just stop trying to play it safe and go the extra mile for once.

Tempest defense does look more appealing after the cd nerfs though.

Even giving Arcane Shield a 30-second recharge would barely make it passable. Recharges across the board for Elementalist are too much of a joke for it to be viable outside of a support role because if an Elementalist doesn’t go all-in of defense, it quite simply doesn’t have enough defense to stand on.

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

(edited by Velimere.7685)