Guild Wars 2

I play as an elementalist from the release, on a golem 48k I do it like that .. from a friend of a necromancer with whom we often go for instance dps 2-3k higher, while he does not need to stand close to the goal and the presence of shuraud survival is an order of magnitude higher (this is for example). Guards give out 58k dps traps in dungeons, after 2-3 seconds to beat already no one . that can be made an elementalist during this time? Is it necessary to talk about the survivability of the guard at the same time?
About the raid .. I was the only elementalist in static (until it came out) and at the same time I was often asked to change the character to the same druid. Statics passes 13 bosses (among other things)
Top DPS elementalist maximum on the golem .. and then controversially. And the efficiency completely ridiculous.
Play with equipared people who have other classes with the included DPSM, and learn the difference of potentials -_-

Savach.7219:

I play as an elementalist from the release, on a golem 48k I do it like that .. from a friend of a necromancer with whom we often go for instance dps 2-3k higher, while he does not need to stand close to the goal and the presence of shuraud survival is an order of magnitude higher (this is for example). Guards give out 58k dps traps in dungeons, after 2-3 seconds to beat already no one . that can be made an elementalist during this time? Is it necessary to talk about the survivability of the guard at the same time?
About the raid .. I was the only elementalist in static (until it came out) and at the same time I was often asked to change the character to the same druid. Statics passes 13 bosses (among other things)
Top DPS elementalist maximum on the golem .. and then controversially. And the efficiency completely ridiculous.
Play with equipared people who have other classes with the included DPSM, and learn the difference of potentials -_-

Man I play every class in raids with a DPS meter, and in the First 3 Wing where I have lot of experience It’s really rare that I get outdps’ed if I play ele.
Even if I have to do specific task (like Green on VG, cannons in sabetha etc etc) I can do comparable dps of Who Just stay melee.
And I both raid with a team and pugs.
In Matthias condi classes are Just better to go yes, but for the rest elementalist is One of the best dps class.
In Wing 4 I have less exp so even if I killed each bosses I don’t do good numbers, but I still have to learn better mechanics.
So you see, FOR MY EXPERIENCE ele is fine.
I never got kicked, I have no difficult to find groups, and I always do well with It. As a lot of other eles.

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

Here is the discussion of situations and particulars…
As I understood the nerf was due to the presence of large bosses in the raids. In dungeons and fractals, there are fewer than few )
We estimate the hit of a meteor that was “corrected” by this patch on a small hitbox, divided by 2 from behind the cd, comparable to the time of caste meteorite rain in a standing position in battle with 11k life, and laugh if the mob came out from aoe.
For 4 years from the elementalist half remained, despite the addition of a new specialization -_-

Savach.7219:

Here is the discussion of situations and particulars…
As I understood the nerf was due to the presence of large bosses in the raids. In dungeons and fractals, there are fewer than few )
We estimate the hit of a meteor that was “corrected” by this patch on a small hitbox, divided by 2 from behind the cd, comparable to the time of caste meteorite rain in a standing position in battle with 11k life, and laugh if the mob came out from aoe.
For 4 years from the elementalist half remained, despite the addition of a new specialization -_-

I see a lot of elementalists in fractals… And dungeon is something arenanet doesn’t care anymore.
But even in dungeon and fractals, if we talk about Speed clearing, Tempest is still One of the best, if not the best,, class, for sure better than any condi classes, since burst damage there is everything.
If we don’t talk about speedclear then what are we talking about? Everything is viable in dungeon and fractals.
For example 4 necro 1 druids fractals is something people run, not because It is better or faster, is Just a brainless Easy way to do them.

About meteorshower you have tons of tools for cast It in a safe way both in dungeon and fractals where all’ the people can, and should, stack and AOE blinds can prevent you to take any damage.
If you die everytime you cast is a L2P issue.

lucadiro.4519:

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Still very important to talk about the game over all if your going to just talk about a very small part of the game and act as if ele is ok as is over all your missing ALOT of the game.
Ele is good in some raids not all as dps but its bad in every thing else as dps spvp wvw open world events. This game is not just raids in fact nothing about this game is build for raids they where simply added in after many years of not having them and classes where more balanced for open world and spvp. If any thing raids have caused more problems them good when it comes to balancing in that often open world pve and wvw are getting effected by raids something that can be self contestant balanced but its not and often its killing types of builds in other moods of gw2.

So i will quote you if your going to act like ele is ok because its able to dps a bit better then other classes in a very small and limited part of the game because your not using a real point of view for gw2 over all and it needs to be pointed out.

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Still very important to talk about the game over all if your going to just talk about a very small part of the game and act as if ele is ok as is over all your missing ALOT of the game.
Ele is good in some raids not all as dps but its bad in every thing else as dps spvp wvw open world events. This game is not just raids in fact nothing about this game is build for raids they where simply added in after many years of not having them and classes where more balanced for open world and spvp. If any thing raids have caused more problems them good when it comes to balancing in that often open world pve and wvw are getting effected by raids something that can be self contestant balanced but its not and often its killing types of builds in other moods of gw2.

So i will quote you if your going to act like ele is ok because its able to dps a bit better then other classes in a very small and limited part of the game because your not using a real point of view for gw2 over all and it needs to be pointed out.

Lol are you for real???
I was talking with the other guys about PVE thing and you come here to Say me “I said ele is fine in pvp/wvw”.
So please Just stop It.

p.s.: Just check my post’s history so you can read every post I made talking about how DPS ele is not fine in pvp

lucadiro.4519:

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Still very important to talk about the game over all if your going to just talk about a very small part of the game and act as if ele is ok as is over all your missing ALOT of the game.
Ele is good in some raids not all as dps but its bad in every thing else as dps spvp wvw open world events. This game is not just raids in fact nothing about this game is build for raids they where simply added in after many years of not having them and classes where more balanced for open world and spvp. If any thing raids have caused more problems them good when it comes to balancing in that often open world pve and wvw are getting effected by raids something that can be self contestant balanced but its not and often its killing types of builds in other moods of gw2.

So i will quote you if your going to act like ele is ok because its able to dps a bit better then other classes in a very small and limited part of the game because your not using a real point of view for gw2 over all and it needs to be pointed out.

Lol are you for real???
I was talking with the other guys about PVE thing and you come here to Say me “I said ele is fine in pvp/wvw”.
So please Just stop It.

p.s.: Just check my post’s history so you can read every post I made talking about how DPS ele is not fine in pvp

I get what your saying but when ppl talk positive things about the class in raids it makes it seem like they are ok with ele as is. Even in pve ele is not ok its only raids and some raids only where ele is ok.
In effect we need to as a group need to scream louder and meaner to say to anet its not ok with what they are doing to the ele class.
Has a lot to do with how raid balancing is getting lumped with wvw and open world pve balancing causing some real problems for the ele class and realty all classes. The hot fixes for just raids balancing that comply destroys the balancing in most of the game is not ok.
Its very blunt that they do not test any of there updates for ele nor do they seem to be in a rush to put ele on the same level as other classes. Anet is broken as a game maker and they are bleeding real talent. We will have to forces them to see problems they do not want to.

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

Jski.6180:

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game

You’re assuming equal distribution of players among PvE, PvP and WvW. It isn’t. PvE has by far the largest playerbase. So what is true for PvE is mostly true for the game in general.

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

For fractals and raids, I’d argue Pinpoint Distribution has greater value than anything an ele has to offer. Sure, Gale Song is pretty handy at Slothasor, but that’s like the only place it has any effect. And it can be replaced by an manual stunbreak. It’s not like you don’t know the exact moment you’ll be needing it.

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

Oh god this forum is gettin ridicolous…..
Again I was talking with a guy about PVE things…. Do I have to specific It in every post I make or can you Just read better and stop quote me about how sad is your Life while you play pvp?

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

Oh god this forum is gettin ridicolous…..
Again I was talking with a guy about PVE things…. Do I have to specific It in every post I make or can you Just read better and stop quote me about how sad is your Life while you play pvp?

Hp and armor are advantages in pve. I have no trouble reading perhaps you should try not comparing two classes when the only thing they have in common is a higher rotation? If you don’t want your comments remarked upon you could always consider not posting in an open forum.

Let me wedge in on the “engi vs ele” point. Good engi can’t outdps a good ele on a large, static hitbox. The number of these in the game is fairly small, even more so the number of these where dps actually matters. Also, the “piano rotation” has simpler variants which yield a not-that-bad dps for a lot less effort. Try playing “simple” an ele and you’ll end up with 10k buffed dps.

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

Oh god this forum is gettin ridicolous…..
Again I was talking with a guy about PVE things…. Do I have to specific It in every post I make or can you Just read better and stop quote me about how sad is your Life while you play pvp?

Hp and armor are advantages in pve. I have no trouble reading perhaps you should try not comparing two classes when the only thing they have in common is a higher rotation? If you don’t want your comments remarked upon you could always consider not posting in an open forum.

Ok then if we talk about PVE, even if engie has a bit more armor and hp their survability is Pretty comparable.
I have to remember you that metà condi engie has not any stun breack nor stab nor evades.
Ele get for free a stunbreack + stab + protection with overloads.
It has One powerfull evade in staff Fire 4 that is also a crazy mobility tool and help in a lot of situation with out lose dps (hello sloth’s poison, gorseval Smash, samarog spear Attack, Just to list some)
can have more selfsusistain running a GM trait in Tempest that doesn’t impact in your DPS.
Also, if running rebound, you can prevent a full wipe.

Also we also have to take in Mind that since we have dedicated healers, if you die with ANY CLASS is Just because you fail at mechanics or not dodging crucial attacks, not because you are squishy.
But do mechanics and Dodge crucial skill is way harder to do while you have also to do an harder DPS rotation.

And I’m not complain about poeple remark my comment. I complain if I talk about One thing and 2 poeple quote me TO TALK ABOUT TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS that has nothing about what I was talking about.
Because Yes, pvp and pve are 2 different things even if they are about the same game.

lucadiro.4519:

Ele get for free a stunbreack + stab + protection with overloads.

Running Gale Song is generally a slight dps loss. 3 seconds of protection and a stack of stability every now and then doesn’t change that much.

lucadiro.4519:

It has One powerfull evade in staff Fire 4 that is also a crazy mobility tool and help in a lot of situation with out lose dps (hello sloth’s poison, gorseval Smash, samarog spear Attack, Just to list some)

Except staff isn’t optimal on any of these. You can still pick it on Gorse for orb clearing, I’ll give you that.

lucadiro.4519:

can have more selfsusistain running a GM trait in Tempest that doesn’t impact in your DPS.

True, albeit minor.

lucadiro.4519:

Also, if running rebound, you can prevent a full wipe.

Correct, but a dps loss. Also, having your next point in mind, you shouldn’t really need to take it, except on Xera. And there only for convenience.

lucadiro.4519:

Also we also have to take in Mind that since we have dedicated healers, if you die with ANY CLASS is Just because you fail at mechanics or not dodging crucial attacks, not because you are squishy.

Correct, however it just translates into difficulty. Less EHP means less room for mistakes, hence higher requirement towards execution, hence higher difficulty. Just like with suboptimal gear stats.

lucadiro.4519:

But do mechanics and Dodge crucial skill is way harder to do while you have also to do an harder DPS rotation.

And this after you used ele Staff as an example… Engi doesn’t have a skill that roots you in place for 2+ seconds in order to get your dps. And neither does an engi need as precise ground targeting of skills as a Sc/W ele does.

I agree engi rotation is harder on the golem, but in a real raid scenario they are comparable in difficulty.

Ok guys you won. This the situation of PVE Tempest:
No One ask for Tempest anymore, and if we try to join a group we get kicked everytime
If people allow us to play Tempest, it is so squishy that we insta die once the encounter start.
If for some reason we dont insta die we provide so poor dps that even ministrell Chrono outdps us, probably because you have to be beethoven to get about 60% of the full Tempest potential.
And obviusly people that get good numbers are using cheats….

How could I have so blind to don’t see this?

Ok I’m out from this clown fiesta, have a nice day.

Right, try to blow the arguments you don’t like to absurd proportions and announce you’re out of the debate. Where have I seen this…

Man, there was a guy saying Tempest is unviable in pve. I replied to him saying how this is not true putting in argoments, instead of Just “no It is viable” then YOU ALL start to quote my argoments outside of the discussion ti talk about things I was not refering to.
It’s like you Say “dogs run”, then I qoute you saying “that’s not true birds doenst run, they fly”.
Make discussion with people like this is impossible and Just wasted time.

You all seems think Tempest is an underpower DPS spec IN PVE and you are all acting like no one want Tempest in his group, 2 things that thanks god have no real basis and are not true at all, since Tempest, with cranger, are the 2 most required DPS class in raids, and tempest is Simply the best class so far for DPS in fractals.

So again, I’m out from this clown fiesta discussion, have fun with It.

And how is your “have no real basis” any different than “isn’t viable”? Both are just subjective assessments. Both aren’t strictly true in that they are both too extreme.

Tempest is still viable, meaning you can still beat all the content with it and produce more or less competitive dps. That’s a fact.

However, in terms of risk/reward, picking a Tempest now is much harder to justify and many groups have recognized that and shifted toward condi rangers (including fractal groups, but that’s just mindless bandwagon-ing). This, also, is a fact.

Does it seem fair for this to outperform this , if only by a hair’s breadth? Forget the group utilities and survivability, just look at the execution. A problem exists and rejecting it on the basis that Tempest is “viable” is exactly the same clown fiesta type of discussion you’re complaining about.

Feanor.2358:

And how is your “have no real basis” any different than “isn’t viable”? Both are just subjective assessments. Both aren’t strictly true in that they are both too extreme.

Tempest is still viable, meaning you can still beat all the content with it and produce more or less competitive dps. That’s a fact.

However, in terms of risk/reward, picking a Tempest now is much harder to justify and many groups have recognized that and shifted toward condi rangers (including fractal groups, but that’s just mindless bandwagon-ing). This, also, is a fact.

Does it seem fair for this to outperform this , if only by a hair’s breadth? Forget the group utilities and survivability, just look at the execution. A problem exists and rejecting it on the basis that Tempest is “viable” is exactly the same clown fiesta type of discussion you’re complaining about.

I’m starting to cry now really…. How Can be people so hard to understand.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT TEMPEST IS STILL A VERY VIABLE AND ONE OF THE BEST DPS CLASS IN PVE.

Is it right or is it not right?

Then, I Just pointed out that, you and another guy are saying have an harder rotation should you reward with an higher dps.
While I Can partially agree, because Tempest Can still do some task other classes can’t do or do worst than a Tempest, you have to admit that, for your Logic, Tempest DPS in large hitboxes should bè nerfed to stay under engie DPS, since it is universal accepted, engie had by far the hardest DPS rotation.

Now you all Can go on to cry about Tempest is not anymore top DPS in every encounter…. I don’t care about it really, do what you want.
But no one can Say Tempest is not viable in pve because it is Just a ridicolous lie, and there isn’t any basis that Can prove it.

Let’s drop all this generic talk and do examples. Raid scenario. What are these things a Tempest can do and other profession can’t? Two things come to mind – Gale Song on Slothasor and “Rebound!” on Xera buttons. What else? Is it enough to make Tempest a good choice? And again, does the comparison from my previous post feel fair?

Oh boy..

VG: if you distort Green or not, Tempest is still is better than any condi ranger since VG has no toughness. IF someone for idk wich reason is using rebound Can prevent a full wipe if a Green fail.
Gorseval: if you do insta cc both staff and scepter, even dagger, Win any DPS competition, if you do slow cc, then condi ranger Win, but then it’s not a problem of the class.
But even if you do slow cc Tempest can prevent a full wipe thanks rebound. Is Also the class that lose less DPS at doing orbs.
Sabetha: have a Blink Just make safer doing cannons, maybe here condi ranger Can outdps you, but still Tempest is a safe, and good, choise at doing cannons thanks by teleport (Can avoid flamewall)
Slothasor: you Can outdps any condi class both in target and cleave. Gale Song is a strong utility here.
Trio: noting to Say.
Matthias: here Tempest is not very good, condi Mesmer and condi ranger wins.
Escort: nothing to. say
Keep construct: do I really have to Say something?
Xera: rebound in buttons, good for clearing orbs and adds while dpsing sabetha.
Cairn: very mediocre here, still with revenant the best kiter so far.
Mursat overseer: at the same level of trio or escort, not going to talk about it.
Samarog: Tempest Win DPS so far, Gale Song Can Also help here.
Deimos: while I don’t have much exp, killed it only One time, seems condi ranger are better here.. still with revenant the best hands kiter.

Sooooo if we left trio and escort, and lets Say mursat overseer is a “raid boss”, Tempest is Viable and One of the best (if not the best) DPS spec on 7/11 bosses.
While is Just the best DPS class so far in fractals.

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

lucadiro.4519:

Oh boy..

VG: if you distort Green or not, Tempest is still is better than any condi ranger since VG has no toughness. IF someone for idk wich reason is using rebound Can prevent a full wipe if a Green fail.
Gorseval: if you do insta cc both staff and scepter, even dagger, Win any DPS competition, if you do slow cc, then condi ranger Win, but then it’s not a problem of the class.
But even if you do slow cc Tempest can prevent a full wipe thanks rebound. Is Also the class that lose less DPS at doing orbs.
Sabetha: have a Blink Just make safer doing cannons, maybe here condi ranger Can outdps you, but still Tempest is a safe, and good, choise at doing cannons thanks by teleport (Can avoid flamewall)
Slothasor: you Can outdps any condi class both in target and cleave. Gale Song is a strong utility here.
Trio: noting to Say.
Matthias: here Tempest is not very good, condi Mesmer and condi ranger wins.
Escort: nothing to. say
Keep construct: do I really have to Say something?
Xera: rebound in buttons, good for clearing orbs and adds while dpsing sabetha.
Cairn: very mediocre here, still with revenant the best kiter so far.
Mursat overseer: at the same level of trio or escort, not going to talk about it.
Samarog: Tempest Win DPS so far, Gale Song Can Also help here.
Deimos: while I don’t have much exp, killed it only One time, seems condi ranger are better here.. still with revenant the best hands kiter.

Sooooo if we left trio and escort, and lets Say mursat overseer is a “raid boss”, Tempest is Viable and One of the best (if not the best) DPS spec on 7/11 bosses.
While is Just the best DPS class so far in fractals.

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

Still a very small part of the game… and core ele is the problem here tempest aol is not. Staff and scepter just do not have the dmg that they should. Staff being an aoe control tool should have very hard hitting aoe to keep ppl out of rings but for the most part (out side of the super glass builds and classes) it is mostly ignored. Scepter is the burst dmg tool that should be on the level of one shot build much like the all in glass thf build but most often its so impossible to land if your target is moving at all that your better off using air swap or even air overloaded way before using the wepon skills.
When your overloads or the secondarily effects for your class do more dmg then your primarily effects there is something wrong with your class. Staff and scepter should do more dmg then a tankly support elite spec. and dropping the dmg effect from that elite spec is the worst way to fix the problem with the weapons them self.

lucadiro, You really do not understand the relationship between risk and benefit, because it’s hard to discuss with you. Viability in terms of DPS and simply viable should be inversely proportional to this and this is balance.
A good engineer has a survival rate higher than an elementalist. And that’s the proof of 4 years of observations and campaigns in different groups, if you shield otherwise, maybe you do not know the engineer or game content very well, because to learn the rotation is not to learn the character yet.
How often do you change the build? I every time, depending on the group, and sometimes a couple of times during the hike depending on the situation.
But how much do you have dps if you for some reason (for example, someone is rez) you do not beat the enemy? And you knew that in the same situation, the elementalist dps is 0?Why does the condy cause damage even after the impact? This is such a mechanics you will say. But why with such an advantage (hit and do what you want) do you want a sapostovimy DPS with direct damage where you need to work out the goal until her death? I repeat: did you hear about the nickname of the elementalist “glass cannon”? Can you tell why it was given and for what? And remembering the same time you were not accidentally of those engineers who passed the maximum level of the fractal (50) solo, selling seats?

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Oh boy..

VG: if you distort Green or not, Tempest is still is better than any condi ranger since VG has no toughness. IF someone for idk wich reason is using rebound Can prevent a full wipe if a Green fail.
Gorseval: if you do insta cc both staff and scepter, even dagger, Win any DPS competition, if you do slow cc, then condi ranger Win, but then it’s not a problem of the class.
But even if you do slow cc Tempest can prevent a full wipe thanks rebound. Is Also the class that lose less DPS at doing orbs.
Sabetha: have a Blink Just make safer doing cannons, maybe here condi ranger Can outdps you, but still Tempest is a safe, and good, choise at doing cannons thanks by teleport (Can avoid flamewall)
Slothasor: you Can outdps any condi class both in target and cleave. Gale Song is a strong utility here.
Trio: noting to Say.
Matthias: here Tempest is not very good, condi Mesmer and condi ranger wins.
Escort: nothing to. say
Keep construct: do I really have to Say something?
Xera: rebound in buttons, good for clearing orbs and adds while dpsing sabetha.
Cairn: very mediocre here, still with revenant the best kiter so far.
Mursat overseer: at the same level of trio or escort, not going to talk about it.
Samarog: Tempest Win DPS so far, Gale Song Can Also help here.
Deimos: while I don’t have much exp, killed it only One time, seems condi ranger are better here.. still with revenant the best hands kiter.

Sooooo if we left trio and escort, and lets Say mursat overseer is a “raid boss”, Tempest is Viable and One of the best (if not the best) DPS spec on 7/11 bosses.
While is Just the best DPS class so far in fractals.

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

Still a very small part of the game… and core ele is the problem here tempest aol is not.

Again!?? Again??? I can’t belive this…. Can you stop qoute me? You Just can’t read and can’t understand how a discussion work.
Feanor Ask me about Raid encounter in the specific and this is my answers.
Then said that fractals + dungeon + raids are a small parte of the game make me laugh.
But again if you want to talk about pvp/wvw Just qoute someone else BECAUSE I’M NOT F….G TALKING ABOUT IT

Well, how does the discussion work? Give engineers more DPS because I play them?
Against the arguments you have very shaky statements..

Savach.7219:

lucadiro, You really do not understand the relationship between risk and benefit, because it’s hard to discuss with you. Viability in terms of DPS and simply viable should be inversely proportional to this and this is balance.
A good engineer has a survival rate higher than an elementalist. And that’s the proof of 4 years of observations and campaigns in different groups, if you shield otherwise, maybe you do not know the engineer or game content very well, because to learn the rotation is not to learn the character yet.
How often do you change the build? I every time, depending on the group, and sometimes a couple of times during the hike depending on the situation.
But how much do you have dps if you for some reason (for example, someone is rez) you do not beat the enemy? And you knew that in the same situation, the elementalist dps is 0?Why does the condy cause damage even after the impact? This is such a mechanics you will say. But why with such an advantage (hit and do what you want) do you want a sapostovimy DPS with direct damage where you need to work out the goal until her death? I repeat: did you hear about the nickname of the elementalist “glass cannon”? Can you tell why it was given and for what? And remembering the same time you were not accidentally of those engineers who passed the maximum level of the fractal (50) solo, selling seats?

Sorry, hmmm, I did not understood part of your post.
Anyway Glass cannon in MMO game (think it’s mostly used on pvp tbh) is litteraly take ANY CLASS and take only the skills, traits, and Gear that maximize the damage output without use any difensive things.
Now every DPS build, in any class, in the PVE metà is basically a glasscannon build, is that condi or is that raw damage.
Soooo, hmmm I don’t get the point?

Btw ress One time, even 2 time, in an encounter has not a significative impact on your final DPS (maybe try to not interrupt an overload to ress, if you are already casting it wait One second to ress chance nothing)
Obviusly if you are ressing people alone all the time Yes, your DPS would be kittenty, but I’m Pretty sure your while party DPS is kittenty in this case.

Btw I don’t think engie has anyway more survability (in PvE) of Tempest if we talk about the metà build.
If you start to talk about change skills (I did not understood this part?) Tempest Can have even more.

That said, again, I sincerely don’t get what are you saying and the point of your post…
Do you think Tempest is not viable or desiderable in PvE?

Savach.7219:

Well, how does the discussion work? Give engineers more DPS because I play them?
Against the arguments you have very shaky statements..

You see? you guys can’t even read.
I was talking about Tempest in PvE and that guy quote me to say CORE ELE is not fine in pvp/wvw… What have that to do with what I’m saying?

And btw Yes I play engie, as I play EVERY class in this game, while my main is still ele.
I don’t think engie Need more damage, nor more damage Need tempest, PVE talking.
Maybe condi ranger can have a very soft Nerf, very soft.

The only classes that Need more damage are revenant and necro (in PvE)

Lemmi clear my point for everyone here, since no one seems to understand.

TALKING ABOUT PVE I really think, and Pretty sure most of the people that do raids and fractals agree with me, that tempest doesn’t Need any damage buff.
I really think the balance we have in PVE is One of the best since a lot of classes can bè, and are, took as fill the DPS spots.
Does condi ranger Need a very small Nerf since it is Easy to play a way less squishy than other classes? Yes I think a small Nerf can bè done.
Does classes like DH, thieves engie Need Nerf in damage?
No i don’t think they Need any Nerf.

Again the only classes that Need damage buff (in PvE) are necro and revenant

lucadiro.4519:

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

The problem is, you can be just as viable, if not more, by putting considerably less effort with another class like condi ranger or thief. No, it’s not fair. Not by a long shot.

Tempest was never the most viable dps. It was perceived as one because everyone assumed they can do reasonably close to what qT showed. Since dps meters went legal, we know how far from the truth this is. People would have shifted toward other damage dealers anyways.

Like it is now, it’s not a question of whether you can pick another class. It’s a question of why to pick a Tempest. Let me make a quick analysis on my own:

• VG – no special reason for ele. It’s decent, if you’re good. “Rebound!” can be helpful but if your group needs it your dps will probably be a bit lacking too so an easier damage dealer can be just as helpful.

• Gorseval – you can take staff for orb clearing, mostly relevant if you’re doing updrafts. If you skip them, go for the dps. Again, ele is decent, but nothing special. Unless you’re really good. Whiich 95% of the players aren’t.

• Sabetha – take Lightning Flash and go cannons. Your group sacrifices dps for the task anyway, and the condi rangers will kill the boss anyway.

• Slothasor – Gale Song is nice, enough to warrant the lower dps said 95% of the players would get.

• Trio – Take a rev if you want, nobody cares. You win anyway.

• Matthias – no special reason for a Tempest.

• Escort – see “Trio”.

• KC – no special reason for a Tempest. Sure, don’t take a condi ranger. But you’re probably better with a Thief (95% certainty).

• Xera – staff for shards and “Rebound!” for buttons. Since you’ll be directing part of your dps away, you’d be outdps’d for sure, but it’s a necessity.

• Cairn – no special reason for Tempest.

• Overseer – no special reason for Tempest.

• Samarog – no special reason for Tempest.

• Deimos – no special reason for Tempest.

So that makes 3/13 encounters where you have an incentive to bring a Tempest. Cool place for the most difficult power builds in the game, huh?

@ Feanor:
I really don’t want to argue again in every single boss, since I THINK that tempest is very viable if not the best class to pick in 9/11 encounters while YOU THINK it is not.
Probably you can’t get good number with Tempest, same for the people you play with, then you think 95% of raiders that use Tempest sucks. But this is you opinion and you don’t have any proof of it.
But it’s ok I don’t want everyone think the same as me so take your opinion, I don’t care.

Just, please, pick you Tempest, go in the lfg and try to join as Tempest DPS in every encounter that is not cairn, Deimos or MO and then come back to tell us how much times you get kicked because you are on Tempest or how much time people Ask you to reroll.

Then do the same with necro or revenant

Experience with pug tempests, bro. It’s not about me and my mates, we do reasonably well. Though the condi ranger usually beats me in dps. It might be me, he usually beats me slightly with ele on KC as well. Then again, he uses impact sigil and I don’t, so we’re probably close. But “pug tempest” has become something of a meme in our group. We’d rather pug anything else (necro and rev included). Sure, there are good tempests. But the vast majority aren’t.

By the way, I play tempest on 13/13 raid bosses. But it doesn’t make it a particularly good choice.

Edit: Here someone else raises the same point I’m trying to make. For average players, it’s preferable to pick easier classes. Which isn’t a bad thing on its own, however they have literally no incentive to master the harder class.

Well, raids are exactly like old dungeons were and raid party usually want to pick the most optimal professions to complete those. Thus raid end up with a core of professions that sustain the minimum support needed (chronomancer, PS warrior… etc.) and the few other place goes to either the highest dps professions or the professions that can patch the few flaw that the “core” have in it’s support without losing to much dps.

The tempest belong to those that can patch the flaws without losing to much dps. It doesn’t mean that it’s easier to play a tempest than a thief and it doesn’t mean that you will have more survivability than a reaper. However, a tempest have the ability to act as a cement for your raid that cover a few hole, yet dish out a sufficient amount of dps.

In PvP, the issue is kinda different. Player cry about dps again and again. Player cry about the fact that the elementalist is holed into support. The real issue is that the elementalist lack the ability to create windows of opportunity that would allow them to land safely their powerful burst. One could say that it’s a lack of crowd control as one could say it’s a lack of defensive skill but by no mean is it a lack of offensive potential. sPvP is a fast pace gamemode and the elementalist have a gameplay that put him constantly on the edge. In sPvP, you can’t help but expect tons of incoming damage and the ele just don’t have the necessary tools to ignore the damage for a long enough time to land their spike without having to take 2 if not 3 mandatory traitlines. In short, the extremly hostil environment hole the elementalist into a defensive/support gameplay.

Dadnir.5038:

The tempest belong to those that can patch the flaws without losing to much dps. It doesn’t mean that it’s easier to play a tempest than a thief and it doesn’t mean that you will have more survivability than a reaper. However, a tempest have the ability to act as a cement for your raid that cover a few hole, yet dish out a sufficient amount of dps.

Flaws? Patch? Is this again about the elusive term “group support” which always gets thrown in when talking about eles and nobody quite clarifies what it consists of?

lucadiro.4519:

Still a very small part of the game… and core ele is the problem here tempest aol is not.

Again!?? Again??? I can’t belive this…. Can you stop qoute me? You Just can’t read and can’t understand how a discussion work.
Feanor Ask me about Raid encounter in the specific and this is my answers.
Then said that fractals + dungeon + raids are a small parte of the game make me laugh.
But again if you want to talk about pvp/wvw Just qoute someone else BECAUSE I’M NOT F….G TALKING ABOUT IT[/quote]

At this point your spamming this and only saying the same thing over and over. I get that you may be explaining things about raids but your missing a lot of the game and that is what this thread is about gw2 and ele’s patch/ update. Not ele and raids only.

Staff and scepter are weak dmg weapons and ele as a class has no dedicated dmg wepon as things stand at best they have support weapons that happen to have dmg. Staff should be the end all be all mages wepon and aoe dmg but it falls behind lighting over load from a tankly support aimed specialization class. Even scepter dose not hold up to what tempest gives out in dmg it tends to complement it but in means of only being a swap effect that you happen to be able to do 0 cast effects when waiting for your atument cd. I would go as far as to say running any thing but fresh air and tempest you lost out on dmg when the very ideal of tempest should be about support and being able to tank hits.

Simply put your taking to say ELE is ok because tempest is doing more then it should and in effect op something that will be fixed in time because that not the way anet see the class. By putting all your hope into this specialization and forgetting weapons of the core ele your dooming ele in the long run to have no dmg. In a way your killing the class not for just raids but for any other specialization that will come out over time.

Ele staff and scepter need major dps / burst dmg updates. There is no way to “fix” the ele class though its specialization.

Its kind of burning your bridges when your on them.

I do not understand what you can discuss with a person who believes that a necromancer needs a damage buff o_0. Do you talk about it based on your experience or on a digital DPS meter?
I raised the issue not to dispute the assessment of the elementalist on a particular boss or the SPVP.
Quote from the chat with the question of the newcomer and the answer of the old-timers:
-Why in fact often gather a group of 1 druid and 4 necromancers?
-Because they can pass it as quickly as the Elementalists with the Messmer. But drinking tea on the way..
If you are seriously discussing the advantages of tempest in raids, then probably you do not go to them there at all. Or relying on the DPS-meter, you have no idea what exactly an elementalist does in your group to get these numbers .
Come back here when you know about the subject of discussion -_-

Savach.7219:

I do not understand what you can discuss with a person who believes that a necromancer needs a damage buff o_0. Do you talk about it based on your experience or on a digital DPS meter?
I raised the issue not to dispute the assessment of the elementalist on a particular boss or the SPVP.
Quote from the chat with the question of the newcomer and the answer of the old-timers:
-Why in fact often gather a group of 1 druid and 4 necromancers?
-Because they can pass it as quickly as the Elementalists with the Messmer. But drinking tea on the way..
If you are seriously discussing the advantages of tempest in raids, then probably you do not go to them there at all. Or relying on the DPS-meter, you have no idea what exactly an elementalist does in your group to get these numbers .
Come back here when you know about the subject of discussion -_-

4 necro 1 Rangers is not a things because DPS, is Just Easy, and you litteraly can do something else in the while.
So why there arent 8 necros 2 druid raids? If they should provide more DPS everyone would run it.
Necro DPS is the second lowest DPS in the game, only superior at revenant dps.
Pulling out a DPS of 30k on necros in a raid boss require coordinated epidemic cast with another necro + steal icebow from tempests and perfect buffs and rotation.
With Tempest you can reach 30k DPS even without be a Qt member. I can pull 30k DPS with Tempest on gorseval, even more in VG, 28k on sabetha, same fo other my Friends that are, again, not doing low man kill or speedclears. So we are average players.

In the end if you get outdpsed from every necros you are Just a bad ele, I’m Sorry but you should face the Truth.

P.s: Just bè honest, are you a troll right?

Trust me, if you can do 30k on Gorse you’re nothing like average.

Feanor.2358:

The problem is, you can be just as viable, if not more, by putting considerably less effort with another class like condi ranger or thief. No, it’s not fair. Not by a long shot.

With the exception of thief, the mechanical complexity of tempest is hardly any different than any of the other classes that are competitive with tempest.
Necromancer has to deal with field priority control (something a ele never thinks about) I shouldn’t need to touch on engi’s complexity, and ranger isn’t all that simpler.

Tempest was never the most viable dps. It was perceived as one because everyone assumed they can do reasonably close to what qT showed. Since dps meters went legal, we know how far from the truth this is. People would have shifted toward other damage dealers anyways.

perception is everything. The fact of the matter was that people preferred to take mediocre poorly geared elementalists while forsaking more qualified players on other classes.

Also you seem to assuming that Ele is the only class that loses dps on a boss. Necromancer loses more dps than any class by a mile. Engi’s are really mechanics sensitive. Thieves have no cleave and get downed more than eles.

And no the legalization of meters did not get rid of perception problems, LFG is just as absolutist as it ever was.

Crinn.7864:

With the exception of thief, the mechanical complexity of tempest is hardly any different than any of the other classes that are competitive with tempest.

Really? Other classes have to rely on abusing mechanics like double-hitting Wildfire and maximizing Phoenix hits? Condi rangers aren’t simple, huh? No targeting quirks, you don’t lose 10% damage every time something hits you or you stop moving. And why would a thief get downed more with the same base hp and higher armor values?

lucadiro. If you believe that doing DPS in raids yourself is strongly mistaken. A quarter of the players are working on your buffs, and you have a dps with their work.. You cling to the raid in all comments forgetting about everything else. But if you want then remove the druid from the raid and see who will die last to have an idea of what I wrote earlier. I think all your damage will not be comparable to your immediate loss =)

Savach.7219:

lucadiro. If you believe that doing DPS in raids yourself is strongly mistaken. A quarter of the players are working on your buffs, and you have a dps with their work.. You cling to the raid in all comments forgetting about everything else. But if you want then remove the druid from the raid and see who will die last to have an idea of what I wrote earlier. I think all your damage will not be comparable to your immediate loss =)

Maybe, Just maybe, I have some knowledge of how raids work and with bad pugs I can not even touch 25k(sometime can’t get even 20k depends of the squad)… But still all’ the squad DPS is lower.
And still you have a druid in your squad every time so your post is pointless

Feanor.2358:

Crinn.7864:

With the exception of thief, the mechanical complexity of tempest is hardly any different than any of the other classes that are competitive with tempest.

Really? Other classes have to rely on abusing mechanics like double-hitting Wildfire and maximizing Phoenix hits? Condi rangers aren’t simple, huh? No targeting quirks, you don’t lose 10% damage every time something hits you or you stop moving. And why would a thief get downed more with the same base hp and higher armor values?

Condi ranger as already said, are Simply the easier class and most effective to play, and as I already said, They can maybe have some soft Nerf. ( Just don’t make racial skill usable in raid would be probably enough but i don’t really know how much DPS does take root provide since my cranger is human)
Thieves in other hands, have no range at all and have poor cleave, 2 things that already make them less desiderable in most of raids encounter, since out of sabetha cannon they can’t do specific task as Tempest and cranger can, also they don’t have any kind of group utility. If you Nerf them your are Just deleting them from raids.
About engie, if you think they deserve a Nerf you should really try one, not on golem but in a raid scenario.
DH I think is in a good spot, no Need to Nerf nor buff.
Revenant lack disperatly some damage buff to bè in pair, at least, of DH.
Reaper Also Need some love, something like make their combo finisher prioritize their fields can already help them a lot (I’m playing One myself these days and 90% of the time your fields get covered)
These are my tought.

So I would really love to know what you think Arenanet should do…. They should Nerf what? Or should they Just buff Tempest? Or make it easier to play?

Feanor.2358:

Trust me, if you can do 30k on Gorse you’re nothing like average.

Obviusly I was talking about First phase only, After that it always drop a bit to me (even 5k lower sometimes)
But I’m pretty sure a lot of people can do it, Just usually people do slow cc, while you Need to breackbar instantly.

lucadiro.4519:

Maybe, Just maybe, I have some knowledge of how raids work and with bad pugs I can not even touch 25k(sometime can’t get even 20k depends of the squad)… But still all’ the squad DPS is lower.
And still you have a druid in your squad every time so your post is pointless

This makes a huge sense because it reflects the essence of the discussion

Feanor.2358:

Crinn.7864:

With the exception of thief, the mechanical complexity of tempest is hardly any different than any of the other classes that are competitive with tempest.

Really? Other classes have to rely on abusing mechanics like double-hitting Wildfire and maximizing Phoenix hits? Condi rangers aren’t simple, huh? No targeting quirks, you don’t lose 10% damage every time something hits you or you stop moving. And why would a thief get downed more with the same base hp and higher armor values?

You just have engis dealing with streamlined kits, Necros dealing with both field priority and having to clip whirl finishers into the hitbox lest they lose chilling bolts hits. Condi ranger I won’t speak of since I don’t play it.

And yes thieves do die more than eles, because raid thieves are pure melee with no self recovery mechanics. Besides there are no mechanics that will down a ele but not down a thief.

Also really when was the last time anyone ever asked for a thief in their raid slot? The only time thieves get taken is if the group can’t get a ele.