Ele Patch Notes

Ele Patch Notes

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Trust me, if you can do 30k on Gorse you’re nothing like average.

Obviusly I was talking about First phase only, After that it always drop a bit to me (even 5k lower sometimes)
But I’m pretty sure a lot of people can do it, Just usually people do slow cc, while you Need to breackbar instantly.

Making it 25k on average? That’s still waaay above the average numbers. Frankly, when we get to pug a tempest I’m happy if he manages to make 12k on average for the whole fight.

You just have engis dealing with streamlined kits, Necros dealing with both field priority and having to clip whirl finishers into the hitbox lest they lose chilling bolts hits. Condi ranger I won’t speak of since I don’t play it.

And yes thieves do die more than eles, because raid thieves are pure melee with no self recovery mechanics. Besides there are no mechanics that will down a ele but not down a thief.

Also really when was the last time anyone ever asked for a thief in their raid slot? The only time thieves get taken is if the group can’t get a ele.

Engis are an exception. Necros have to work with a clumsy mechanic, but it is comparable to what eles need to do with Phoenix, so I’d call that a tie. Plus, you can always take more necros, don’t bother at all with combo fields and just epi-bomb everything to the win. On a side note, for this strategy it’s beneficial to have a condi burn ele around to supply with baseline burn stacks.

Condi ranger is just easy, period.

Theif is melee, true, but so is the ele, really. First of all, you don’t want to leave the group or you lose wells, heals and buffs in general. Second, to get the most out of your Wildfire you need to be in melee range. So while you technically can move further away, you never really do. I’d call this a tie, too.

Lastly, the reason people aren’t asking for thief isn’t that the thief is worse. In fact, most of the eles can’t match the numbers a thief manages by only autoattacking

(edited by Feanor.2358)

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

.
Theif is melee, true, but so is the ele, really. First of all, you don’t want to leave the group or you lose wells, heals and buffs in general. Second, to get the most out of your Wildfire you need to be in melee range. So while you technically can move further away, you never really do. I’d call this a tie, too.

The fact ele, and ranger, have some range means that in some encounter you can stay in melee group while doing specific e task
I mean if a thief go in greens in VG means is doing cose to 0 DPS. Also:
Thief can’t clear orbs at gorseval
Thief can’t cleave mobs at slothasor
Thief can’t clear orbs at xera nor go on plat (without stop DPS)
Thief can’t damage staute (without stop DPS MO)
Some range is helpfull at Deimos, so is have cleave.
Thief have poor cleave so it is Also not very good at trio and escort

So have a range option, and good cleave, is helpfull 8/13 encounters.
Go 2 chronos 2 cps 2 druid 4 thieves in ANY encounter is Just brainless stupid, but still have One is a good source of solid DPS, and this is a good thing that the game promote some diversity.

Also Tempest that do 12k DPS at gorseval are not average, are bad, and I’m sure the same person would do terrible DPS even on other classes

Parabrezza

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

First and foremost, we were discussing survivability. Check the link in my last post to see a thief clearing shards on Xera easily.

Aside from that, yes, range and cleave are nice to have, though their absence hardly warrants doing the same dps by only pressing “1”.

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

First and foremost, we were discussing survivability. Check the link in my last post to see a thief clearing shards on Xera easily.

Aside from that, yes, range and cleave are nice to have, though their absence hardly warrants doing the same dps by only pressing “1”.

Do you realize that for cleans orbs at xera it have to stop DPS xera? Meaning in a DPS Loss overall? And he porbably Will Also lack gotl and maybe quickness when it come back?
And cleave is not only nice to have, but in some encounters it can means that secondary mobs die slower, doing more damage at the whole group, meaning again, an overoall DPS Lost.

Parabrezza

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

I mean, thieves are for sure a good entry level DPS class but they are far to be optimal in mostly encounters

Parabrezza

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

First and foremost, we were discussing survivability. Check the link in my last post to see a thief clearing shards on Xera easily.

Aside from that, yes, range and cleave are nice to have, though their absence hardly warrants doing the same dps by only pressing “1”.

Do you realize that for cleans orbs at xera it have to stop DPS xera? Meaning in a DPS Loss overall? And he porbably Will Also lack gotl and maybe quickness when it come back?
And cleave is not only nice to have, but in some encounters it can means that secondary mobs die slower, doing more damage at the whole group, meaning again, an overoall DPS Lost.

Again, the point wasn’t about cleave/range, it was about survivability.

But an ele obviously also loses dps when hitting shards.

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

You said your point is thief don’t deserve ele numbers since they Just autoattack.
While you can’t see ele (even rangers) is far superior not only for the DPS Number, that can be more or less comparable, but for what they can actually do in a real raid scenario.
There are lot of raid Groups that run 3-4 Tempest or 3-4 cranger… While run 3-4 thieves is Just stupid.

Parabrezza

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Basi venom + more mobility. There, a Thief also does stuff an ele can’t do without losing dps. 4 thieves probably isn’t a great idea though I’m fairly certain you can clear with such comp too. But just because the current meta has certain classes covering certain tasks it doesn’t mean nobody else can do these. Or they make up for the lack of dps in a real raid scenario.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

The tempest belong to those that can patch the flaws without losing to much dps. It doesn’t mean that it’s easier to play a tempest than a thief and it doesn’t mean that you will have more survivability than a reaper. However, a tempest have the ability to act as a cement for your raid that cover a few hole, yet dish out a sufficient amount of dps.

Flaws? Patch? Is this again about the elusive term “group support” which always gets thrown in when talking about eles and nobody quite clarifies what it consists of?

Well, yes exactly feanor, all those protection uptime that ele gracefully provide, all those fields that are still usefull, those extra damage given to your allies thanks to air overload, those heal that ele scatter without even trying, those aura which even if they aren’t great still help… etc.

Yes, all this support that the ele do unconsciously strengthen your party. It might be some overheal, some minute amount of might stacks or 40% damage reduction instead of 33%. It might be a bit less than 10k more damage for your raid each time you use air overload. That might even be the ability to put down a water field when your party is in dire need for heal. But Yes! That is what we call support in this game.

Even with that, the elementalist still can provide conjure weapon even if nowaday ele tend to be a bit egoist with that extra weapon on the floor.

Is it clear enough?

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Savach.7219

Savach.7219

But I do not understand anything.
Either I wrote something wrongfully or asked the right questions.
Reading you, it seems to me that your whole game is a raid in which you are accompanied by druids ps guardians Messers and other.
I do not see in the description of the topic on the forum “elementalist in the roadstead” because it’s strange all this.
Here we discuss a single class on pve.
If you want, then compare the net game. Because in the raid a lot depends on the support and coordination, and it is difficult to kitten the capabilities of the class, relying on the unknown Messmer or ps :

Maybe, Just maybe, I have some knowledge of how raids work and with bad pugs I can not even touch 25k(sometime can’t get even 20k depends of the squad)… But still all’ the squad DPS is lower.
And still you have a druid in your squad every time so your post is pointless

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Perfectly.

Protection uptime from ele is zero. Unless you’re special snowflaking. The meta builds are all Fire/Air/Tempest. They don’t have prot on aura (which is Earth trait) and they don’t share auras (which is Water trait). The only aura they could apply is Fire Aura from “Feel the burn!”. Which is irrelevant, since it requires you to get hit, which you don’t want as it screws your scholar uptime.

Healing is irrelevant, since druids overheal anyway and you want them to spam as many heals as possible for GotL.

Ele fields help… in reducing Necromancer’s dps. All Brutal Bolts do is apply vuln and guess what, an ele caps vuln comfortably by itself. Which makes them, you guessed correctly, irrelevant.

So… what’s left? That’s right, dps. All your “support” is options you could in theory pick but never do for they are suboptimal.

Of course they’ll be egoistical toward their conjures. Take them and you’re reducing their only contribution for the group. A Necromancer can actually benefit more from the icebow, but it screws an already complicated rotation. So I can perfectly understand eles being unhappy when you steal their conjures, even if it yields more dps.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

Feanor… Do you believe me if I say that before phalanx stregth was introduced in the game, elementalist were used to supply all 25 might stack of strength? Do you believe me if I say that even after PS warrior were introduced in the game, the elementalist still had it’s place in every dungeon party and thus not only for FB an FGS? Do you believe me if I say that someone like you was arguing with me on this forum 1 year and a half ago that tempest would never be taken in raid because they were “giving nothing and had a bad dps” (almost the same word that you spout) and yet for this past year and a half, elementalist have been in a really good spot when it come to raids?

The elementalist have had a long history of player underestimating the profession as a whole while the fact proved that if he was not king in PvE he was at least a crown prince.

You don’t have that long of a post history so you were probably not the guy with which I argued. However, I still want to say that this guy also argued with me that a fresh air build would never be effective in raid. Yet, fresh air build has been alive and kicking for this last year and a half.

As power build the elementalist is almost at the top of the professions for potential damage. It still fart boons like crazy. It still is versatil enough to relieve a bad druid that is on the verge of dying. It still can put it’s share of might when all of your party can’t hug the PS warriorwhile meleing a boss. An electric field can still provide some mobility when it’s needed… etc.

You make a big deal of necromancer’s dps that is reduce/nerfed by electric field. Necromancers have never been loved in PvE (except when they release the instability in medium to high end fractal). Today, necromancer barely have a place because they can barely reach the level of dps of a power ele with their conditions. And this is just a dps spot, knowing that they give basically no support. Eck! you even said it, ele easily put 25 vuln on a foes and this is what the necromancer are supposed to excel at as their support rĂ´le! If you don’t need the overheal of an ele because druids already outperforms, how the eck do you need a necromancer with sole support the ability to heal down players? The reallity is that the necromancer still give less to a party than an elementalist, the only good point of a necromancer is that it does have a higher survivability which make it a better choice for beginners.

If I were putting myself in your shoes, I wouldn’t complaint about elementalist. I would complain about Phalanx strength. The fact is that this trait is a bit to strong and is the reason why professions like elementalist and engineer, who have the ability to generate their share of might stack for a party, find themself in a tight spot due to a supposed “lack of support”. In my opinion, on this subject, the PvE scene would gain to see a slight nerf on this trait. The lingering issue behind would be that the warrior would become the one that find iself in a tight spot. However, this fact does not justify the overwelming domination of Phalanx Strength in the current game.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

I know ele used to stack might. And I know you can get pretty much anything you want with an ele. However, outside of raids it just doesn’t matter. Bring whatever you want, you still make it.

And yes, you can still produce boons. The problem is, they’re irrelevant in raids. Because the boons that matter are already supplied, better. The PS brings the Might, the Druid brings the Fury. The rest of our boons aren’t that important in fights. Protection can be useful, but, again, it’s better supplied by other professions, mainly because we have to sacrifice too much to get it.

And it’s not like an ele can’t have good dps. Yes, the potential is still top-tier. However, the average player cannot get as close to this potential as he can for easier builds. Meaning the average player will actually perform better on an easy class. You can argue this is just a normal thing in a game and you might be right. But it still feels unfair. Even if you’re really good, you’re only going to excel on large hitboxes and you’re likely to get outperformed by less skilled players putting less effort on small ones. It just feels bad, meaning the class isn’t balanced properly.

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Posted by: Savach.7219

Savach.7219

I have the impression that those who write here elementalists do not play.
Or all your familiar necromancers, thieves fnd guardians are dressed in PTV or celestial

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

I have the impression that those who write here elementalists do not play.
Or all your familiar necromancers, thieves fnd guardians are dressed in PTV or celestial

I taken time off from playing ele (till staff is buffed a good bit in dmg) in wvw mostly (the only game type i play in gw2 for a good bit) and out side of full support ele realty fallen behind so i am playing a necro like its an ele. At least wells do something metor dose not. O ya ele form the start of gw2 staff ele in fact.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA