Guild Wars 2

Hi,
So I am sitting here a hair away from lvl 40, with all weapon skills unlocked, most of the utilities unlocked. There are a few utils that I dont have but they aren’t huge dynamic game changers. I am bored of the class already, and this hasn’t happened to me yet. I have four 80s, thief guardian necromancer and warrior.

None were boring while leveling, because there was a sense of decision making in terms of what abilities to use.

For example, on the thief, I DB twice, drop caltrops, and either stay in for another DB or roll out to switch to long bow and finish everything off. I had a choice to make…stay in melee or roll out and finish from afar. OR, I could have started with short bow, drop the poison field on the mobs, steal/shadowstep in, switch to daggers, deathblossom away, drop a few caltrops, roll out drop another poison field, continue firing short bow.

On this elementalist, D/D, here is my unchanging static rotation for a multi mob pull:
Ring of Fire, Arcane Wave, (switch to earth), Magnetic Grasp, Earthquake, Churning Earth. I do this for EVERY multi mob pull. And I almost have to, in order to get up the projectile reflective shield, and might stacking, to burn down the mobs before they kill my squishy butt. Theres almost no room for variety. So now most of my offensive spells are on cooldown. If mobs are still alive, or another wave comes, I either switch to air to “control” them while fire comes off CD, (earth abilities will still be on massive CD), or if need be go to water to regen HP. Still, not much variety, I know exactly what abilities to use in every situation. I feel as if choice is not present. No decision making mid fight.

-Burn through offensive rotation (burn phase)
-Go through control rotation (control phase, awaiting burn phase to come off CD)
OR
-Go through HP regen rotation if HP is low.

For me, this feels boring now. Kind of disappointed. I feel the elementalist is more of a rotation-based class, especially if youre rolling with dagger/dagger, to stack might and auras, rather than on the fly-decision making…reacting to the situation.

Or, more interestingly, consider this which might also shed light into my dilemma: Wouldn’t you agree that naturally the elementalist, while it packs a punch in many of its abilities, must go through similar rotations to stack might or auras to be effective? You MUST utilize your combo fields and multiple attunments in order to merely survive, let alone kill things fast. So rather than simply being on equal survivability/damage output footing as other classes, which frees you up to make decisions based on situation, you are tunneled into a rotation to put yourself on that equal footing. Does this make sense?

Agree? Disagree?

Im not asking if you are having fun with the class or liking it, wondering if you feel the same way that it is very much rotational based, and in its own right is a weak class unless you adhere to the rotations and attunement swapping.

Thoughts?

Mobs are stupid and predictable, therefore every class has one optimal rotation to deal with them.
Play against a human opponent, watch your pretty little chains fall apart magnificently and enjoy the ensuing chaos.

What you describe is fault of lacking ai, not the profession itself. All professions suffer it to some decree, but on elementalist it´s most obvious since there´s such a bug gap between good and bad rotations.

In general there is a sort of rotation that makes sense for optimal DPS output in PvE and PvP, but being able to switch it up is an important part of playing ele. Your rotation for pure survival and team buffing is going to be different than a pure damage rotation, and PvE often requires less variation than PvP, partially because it’s easier to predict what mob ai will do, with the other part being that good players will catch on to your rotation and beat you up for it.

Please note that other classes do have sequences that they must do to achieve optimal DPS; it is just a tad more complicated for us because we are working with 20 skills that are individually less complex than our counterparts but add up to something that achieves more in the long run, at least conceptually. This is quite obviously the case with D/D setups, but staff/scepter/focus are lacking a bit as is; scepter however is better off than the other two in terms of ease/efficacy most of the time when it comes to damage.

Strang.8170:

Mobs are stupid and predictable, therefore every class has one optimal rotation to deal with them.
Play against a human opponent, watch your pretty little chains fall apart magnificently and enjoy the ensuing chaos.

What you describe is fault of lacking ai, not the profession itself. All professions suffer it to some decree, but on elementalist it´s most obvious since there´s such a bug gap between good and bad rotations.

I disagree here. Having leveled 4 professions to 80, I can honestly say that each situation was a little bit different. Even if that difference was that I dodged a bit more, or straffed/kited a bit more, it was different. And I had to decide to either perform A or B. Simply moving around 3 or 4 mobs at a time, dodging, kiting, makes each encounter a tad different. I am not simply mashing 4, F4, 3, 4, 5. Thats my rotation as elementalist to handle a pull with multiple mobs. I can’t tell you what it would be for my thief, or my necromancer, because it would be different each time.

With the elementalist, on every single pack pull, its the same kitten thing. Generate combo field, generate might stacks, and everything dies. Whats worst is while im channeling churning earth to generate that last stack of might and dish out the final “kablooey”, im stationary. Im not dodging, not kiting, nothing. Rotation,. into a stationary ability to continue executing the rotation.

Since the AI is generally so bland, your only real PVE opportunity for breaking out of optimal rotation-style play is in dungeons. Fights in dungeons last longer, have unique mechanics, demand greater mobility, require teamwork and generally require everyone to be more flexible.

Leuca.5732:

In general there is a sort of rotation that makes sense for optimal DPS output in PvE and PvP, but being able to switch it up is an important part of playing ele. Your rotation for pure survival and team buffing is going to be different than a pure damage rotation, and PvE often requires less variation than PvP, partially because it’s easier to predict what mob ai will do, with the other part being that good players will catch on to your rotation and beat you up for it.

Please note that other classes do have sequences that they must do to achieve optimal DPS; it is just a tad more complicated for us because we are working with 20 skills that are individually less complex than our counterparts but add up to something that achieves more in the long run, at least conceptually. This is quite obviously the case with D/D setups, but staff/scepter/focus are lacking a bit as is; scepter however is better off than the other two in terms of ease/efficacy most of the time when it comes to damage.

Sure, on my thief Id go in and pop deathblossom two or three times. After that, Its anyones best guess what Id do next. Steal + deathblossom again? Finish via melee? Use Dancing Dagger(which is very under rated in terms of the damage it does)? Dodge out to finish at range?

On my necro: Drop a combo field, Warhorn 4, Warhorn 5. Now do I switch into Deathshroud and life transfer? Or do I simply, life siphon and continue melee attacking? Do I explode a minion in that combo field that I dropped for a finisher?

I suppose the Guardian was the same way a little bit, which is why I stopped playing him at 80, but the utilities you chose almost guided your play a bit more. Spirit weapons, burns, combo fields/finishers?

Hell, I know its early on but on my very low level mesmer, running scepter/focus I was pulling 10 mobs, then dropping the focus field and pulling them all away..meanwhile generating clones. Now do I shatter them via mindwreck of the confusion shatter? Do I drop a phantasmal warden on top of the mobs and shatter that as well? Or let it play its course? Do I go into melee range and pop the blocking ability, to generate another clone? Do I shatter that clone? This is just level 3. More decisions, rather than a “I need to stack might to be effective…so I roll into a rotation”.

I guess what Im saying is that the other classes are free to change up their “rotation” a bit depending on changing situation and circumstances. Depending on the badfloor, boss mechanics, environmental mechanics, I change what I do. All the while, maintaining some sort of semi-effectiveness.

Running a D/D elementalist, to even get up to the level of effectiveness that is a thief in terms of damage, I need to stack might. To do that, I need to get into that rotation. If I don’t, my damage is way subpar. Thus, I have less freedom to change to the given situation. If I do, my damage will suffer greatly, moreso than it would on a thief if I broke off of my “rotation”(even though there is less of one).

Hardly need to might stack in PvE.
I never bother getting any Might and I do just fine at 50 D/D.
It’s just a matter of lighting everything on fire.
A lot.

Really sucks fighting Destroyers though.
Or inanimate objects since apparently wooden gates can’t be set aflame.

It’s both. You have to rotate to achieve max effectiveness and with in each attument your rotation are more or less set. The decision is WHICH attument you are going to use at what time. This is a lot harder than it sounds. Because you have to plan ahead rather than just react.

I dont know, I still just disagree. This hasnt been my experience at all. @mogar: From a pack of 3 centaurs to the next pack of 3 centaurs, my rotation would be the same. Fire to earth, might stacking and aoe via arcane wave, earthquake, and churning earth.

I havent had much problem leveling. but this has been my gameplay for 40 levels now. Each and every encounter of more than a few mobs.

If you’re bored of the class, then not much can be done. I main ele but have 5 other 80’s. You say other classes don’t give you the same sense of repetitive rotation but they only have 10 weapon skills (5 per weapon swap) while the ele is just fundamentally different in that regard. I don’t even worry about stacking might or auras, it just happens.

Also, why are you starting your rotation in fire? starting in air is much more effective as you can air-3 for an instant aura (fury+swiftness+protection if traited) and blowout the mobs for CC. Switch to fire for burning speed+firegrab = dead mobs.
I agree with some of the other posters that said PVE is a bit predictable outside of dungeons. If you take your ele to a dungeon you’ll see that you’ll need to use all attunements as spontaneous tools at your disposal.

Hmm. this is the reason my alt is a thief. On ele I keep to rotation when I can vs a smart opponent I will break it just to throw them off.

My comparison is this. Every other class is playing jingles. No combo fields sticking to a weapon set. 4 or 5 keys your done and it’s wash rinse repeat. We on the other hand are playing classical music complex beautiful but still its sheet music and has a pattern and an order its just longer and more complex. Thief is the only class allowed (but not necessarily) to play jazz without the sheet music. Hit what ever skill you like whenever you like sure you run out of init but its there. So you can literally spam one skill like DB or you can be complex like SD.

However, I should reiterate this playing against a good player or another DD ele running a rotation is a dumb move. Might stacks be danged I rather win. Ill go air earth to shut someone down if need be and stay in fire to melee them to death or switch water and stack invul while kiting then burst. While PvE may feel this way most other classes don’t have our freedom of choice.

One other thing I realized but it maybe just me. I rarely auto attack for long period of time. I think the rotations are so hard wired that we just never stop. Honestly you can sit in fire or air and get most things done with auto attack.

Sorry for the long post but a funny story that taught me a lesson. I once was fighting another DD ele and while I was running my rotation he calmly say in fire and DPSed me with auto attack. He was dodging all the combo and after i expended all my cds he kept burning me down in fire. After I got my kitten handed to me I realized He wasn’t really dodging much. I wasn’t really pressuring him with auto attack. My failure to slow down my pace and use auto attack led to me losing. Same thing would happen vs mesmers.

A few pieces of advice. Carry other weapon sets its helps break the monotony. Don’t worry about your rotation so much. Challenge yourself. go fight an unbelievable amount of mobs or got spvp and attempt to troll a bit. It sounds mean but it will open up your eyes to what can be done with the class when we stop worrying about the rotation. Also your level 40 go craft a few levels and come back with fresh eyes the grind sucks. Explore the world later level now.

I don’t even use combos anymore vs. decent opponents. Combos are for pve and killing zergs.

cesmode.4257:

@mogar: From a pack of 3 centaurs to the next pack of 3 centaurs, my rotation would be the same. Fire to earth, might stacking and aoe via arcane wave, earthquake, and churning earth.

Just to be blunt here, that is more of an issue on your end as far as creativity goes. There will always be an optimum cycle of skills, for every class. You can run into every situation and that will likely be the best way to go about it. BUT, it doesnt mean that you have to do that rotation. You can even do less effective rotations specifically to challenge yourself more (as in positional awareness, character control, etc). You can also choose to just stay in one attunement to become more.. in tune.. with it (sorry, couldnt help myself).

That being said, I would use a completely different rotation if I was looking for optimal effect. Most of the time, its best to run around in air as well as begin fights in that attunement. For me, that is.

As was said, its a combination of both rotation and decision. You have specific rotations within each attunement (just like other classes weapons) that will be the “best,” but which attunement/weapon you are currently in and where you will go with it next is entirely up to you. Eles just have four options for rotations instead of two, making them more decision based than any other class, though still firmly rooted in rotations.

What you need to do to just get a PvE kill is much, much different than what you can do to become a better player and master of your class.

Try S/D then try S/F then try D/F then try Staff if you’re bored. Sadly D/D is rotation based and attunements are strategy based. Furthermore once you start hitting the Orr zones it becomes less of a face roll and more like pvplite training. But I do get what you’re saying.

cesmode.4257:

I dont know, I still just disagree. This hasnt been my experience at all. @mogar: From a pack of 3 centaurs to the next pack of 3 centaurs, my rotation would be the same. Fire to earth, might stacking and aoe via arcane wave, earthquake, and churning earth.

I havent had much problem leveling. but this has been my gameplay for 40 levels now. Each and every encounter of more than a few mobs.

For pve you are right since pve is mostly brain dead stuff any way. For pvp and WvW I’m right :P Real players don’t do linear damage and they don’t stand still. So the skill level is a lot higher in pvp. I also play a thief alt, to be honest thief pve is also brainless imo.

considering you claim to have 4 level 80 characters already I am going to assume most of your issue is you are just sick of leveling up in this the game.

this game honestly has one of the worst and most boring leveling treadmills ive seen in an mmo game in quite some time, and anyone who claims to have leveled multiple 80’s through pve is just going to amaze me at how they can be so easily amused.

the leveling is so ridiculously boring in this game. I am not even going to discuss how idiotic most of the main quest line quests actually are, but seriously…

you do a main quest and it jumps up 5 levels for the next one
you do all the hearts up to 5 levels higher than you and you are still 4 levels below your next class quest.
????
run around like an idiot looking for orange circles that can completed solo for 4 levels.

finally do the next main quest which takes 1 minute and then jumps up another 5 levels for the next one.
/facepalm

.
it doesnt matter what class i play, thats just boring.

i mean honestly, you played a warrior.
your decisions were : should i press one of these 3 shout buttons, or should i press 100blades?

and you are seriously saying the issue is that elementalist is boring to play?

cesmode.4257:

I can’t tell you what it would be for my thief, or my necromancer, because it would be different each time.

Seriously? Thief? Dude…..

P/D: Press 5, press 1, press 5, press 1, press 5, press 1…… D/D: 5,2,2,2,2…… or shortbow 2,2,2,2,2,2…… zzzzzzz hell, I never even needed to learn what half my thief skills did to get to 80 on that silly class.

You don’t move during churning earth? Why not? Lightning flash tp……

Optimal rotation…. geez

(I don’t know about necros, never played one, stinky green zombies…..)

Pve mobs are all boring and can be killed by most classes with 1-2 buttons (champs and dungeon mobs aside, but if you can spam dps rotations without thought or movement on those things, please share your build, since I apparently suck since I have to dodge and kite and stuff…..).

It may be more because this is your 4th 80 rather than the ele itself.
It is likely you will feel the same about any of the other classes now.
I have an 80 warrior and an 80 ele. working on a necro now.
The necro is no where near as entertaining as the ele was to me.

After i got my ele figured out… all the other classes have lost their luster.

But… There are a lot of aspects to the game.
Perhaps, as is often the case, the problem is not with the ele but with you.
do something different with the ele.
become a staff master.
explore dagger/focus
use a conjure.

Go for zone completion rather than leveling.
Dont grind.
play different.

The leveling in the game is easy. It just comes. hardly have to work for it at all.
nothing like sitting at the trees in DAOC. it took me forever to get max level in that game simply because it was so tedious.
You really cant avoid experience here.

In party combat, I’m always thinking if I should control/damage/or heal. I use almost all my spells in combat and I rarely autoattack.

If anyone has a “rotation” for all our 20 skills i’d love to know it.

Thrashbarg.9820:

cesmode.4257:

I can’t tell you what it would be for my thief, or my necromancer, because it would be different each time.

Seriously? Thief? Dude…..

P/D: Press 5, press 1, press 5, press 1, press 5, press 1…… D/D: 5,2,2,2,2…… or shortbow 2,2,2,2,2,2…… zzzzzzz hell, I never even needed to learn what half my thief skills did to get to 80 on that silly class.

You don’t move during churning earth? Why not? Lightning flash tp……

Optimal rotation…. geez

(I don’t know about necros, never played one, stinky green zombies…..)

Pve mobs are all boring and can be killed by most classes with 1-2 buttons (champs and dungeon mobs aside, but if you can spam dps rotations without thought or movement on those things, please share your build, since I apparently suck since I have to dodge and kite and stuff…..).

I almost quit the game completely because of how monotonous almost all the profs are in their rotations. It’s seriously two buttons for most of them for an entire boss fight. How boring is that? In this sense, I feel that GW2 has taken a huge step backwards from GW, where you could could completely customize your bar and make every skill on your bar an important part of the fight. Sure, there were standard set ups for encounters, but it was a very strategical game, and was very challenging the last half of leveling.

Anyway, I then found Ele and Mesmer, and my interest in the game sparked again. They are the only Profs that don’t use two buttons, switch weapons, use two buttons, switch weapons…