Guild Wars 2

What is the official stance of ANet on the Ele downed state? Especially that we are the only profession in the game that cannot interrupt a stomp at all?

This is seriously hindering ele in sPVP and tournament gameplay. Every other profession that goes down has a fighting chance to interrupt a stomp and get up again. A downed ele is simply a dead ele because he cannot prevent or interrupt getting stomped ASAP.

Please Arenanet, change something about our downed state, or even give us an official response if you are happy with the current downed state (god I hope not).

I feel this is the #1 Ele issue, everything else is just number tweaking and bug fixing.

Yup, sometimes it feels like other classes are unkillable when downed. Like Thieves, I actually have to just keep on attacking them instead of planting the flag, because they interrupt me so many times and then teleport away. It takes a longer time to kill them in downed state than when they’re up.

My Elementalist on the other hand, he’s a kitten. He doesn’t even try to fight back once he’s down. Even my Ele knows he should just give up and roll a Thief.

Pardon my PvP ignorance, does vapor form not interrupt stomps?

Weirwynn.2390:

Pardon my PvP ignorance, does vapor form not interrupt stomps?

Unlike other skills other professions have, we can’t use it before an immediate stomp.

Also, it counts as downing yourself.

And gives point to enemy teams in sPvP I believe.

And broke my gear once.

Vapor Form has a 20 second cooldown, I’m not sure if it takes that long before you can cast it once you are downed, but it’s not far from that. You can’t cast it immediately.

So Elementalist can’t do anything to interrupt your stomp if you do it within 20 seconds of him being downed. Now that you know it, you can do something like /dance next to him for 10 seconds and then proceed to plant the flag.

If the downed root at least worked decently… if a enemy kills me and I’m at 900 range and instantly start channeling the root… he will still get to me without getting rooted and can finish me without any delay ~.~

Most damage in downed state is probably Mesmer, since his phantasms stay up and the phantasm he can summon while downed seriously hurts (Highest hit I’ve seen so far was nearly 7k on a clothie). I’ve downed a couple of glass cannons with a downed Mesmer when they didn’t know how to find my real body.

@Weirwynn
If you got no interest in PvP, why do you go and get involved in a discussion about PvP?

After capping my Mesmer I thought I’d give Elementalist a try. The downed state really does need some work. At least with a Mesmer I have the immediate option to to a flash, leaving a clone in my spot. Then once I unstealth from that I have the option to spawn a assassin phantasm.
Elementalist has nothing like that.
Skill 2 is a immobilising skill… Well not sure how that’s meant to help? If a melee mob downed me then they’re already close enough to kill me making that skill pointless. Same applies to ranged opponents. Grab is simply useless.
Skill 3 is a mist form… After you wait for 8 seconds and by then it’s already too late. It also doesn’t benefit you besides staying alive 5 seconds longer. It doesn’t cover a great distance, it doesn’t stealth you so mobs walk right with you as you ‘mist’ away ready to finish you off, it just keeps you in the fight for 5 seconds longer. The only benefit I see from this is that it resets your downed health to 50%.

I’d really like another skill to replace #2. The mist form would be nice if it was accessible as soon as you were downed, stealthed and (maybe) granted swiftness whilst in that form. This will allow the Elementalist to escape from mobs or other players.
If other classes have the option to escape instant death, why doesn’t Elementalist?

Edit: Reformatted some points.

I agree that Elementalists could use a PvP-themed downed skill. As for Mesmers, oh how I hate you guys! The first 10% of the fight is killing you, and the following 90% is trying to finish you off in downed state!

Sephka.4190:

Poor wording aside, OP has a point. Ele is the only class that can’t stop an immediate stomp. It’s basically a death sentence when downed, unless there’s an ally around to save you.

The adjusted message is indeed a valid point.

Freakiie.8940:

@Weirwynn
If you got no interest in PvP, why do you go and get involved in a discussion about PvP?

As I mentioned, my next character is an elementalist and I was concerned since what I was hearing didn’t match my meager experience. I made a simple query and response.

Arcain.9106:

Skill 2 is a immobilising skill… Well not sure how that’s meant to help? If a melee mob downed me then they’re already close enough to kill me making that skill pointless. Same applies to ranged opponents. Grab is simply useless.

At least the intent is there. Engineer 2 actually pulls enemies to you. Sure it’s technically useful for interrupting stomps, but… come on. (Full Disclosure: Engineer 3 is a PBAoE, but still.)

Change the immobilize to a knockdown or whatever, problem solved. It even looks like it could knock people down.

Weirwynn.2390:

At least the intent is there. Engineer 2 actually pulls enemies to you. Sure it’s technically useful for interrupting stomps, but… come on. (Full Disclosure: Engineer 3 is a PBAoE, but still.)

Actually I feel that Engineer has one of the better downed states. #2 interrupts stomping because it knocks down even if they are in melee range, and if they are range, you can pull them too you as soon as #3 comes off cooldown to PBAoE blast them away.

Also, if you time it right (the timing windows is extremely short) you can use #2 to interrupt the first stomp, and get to use #3 to interrupt the second stomp that they tried as soon as they got up from the first knockdown.

TehRoboRoller.2376:

Change the immobilize to a knockdown or whatever, problem solved. It even looks like it could knock people down.

Yes that would be the quickest fix. Vapor form wouldn’t be so terrible if you could actually use it because you prevented the first stomp from finishing you.

Agreed that #2 is worthless (I dislike it so much I forgot the name). Even if you manage to somehow get a vapor form off you can’t get enough distance from a person to warrant using #2. I’ve also noticed that it doesn’t have a very long range either. If all we get is a root you’d think it would have a decent range.

Skill #2 skill should be an aoe KD instead of a single-target immobilize, and vapor form should be faster, like mist form. I think that could be fine.

I’d settle for a channeled aoe damage attack that puts a burning or slow condition on them. Because then you’d either be increasing your chance of downing someone yourself or give yourself more of an ability to run away in vapor form. (Doesn’t prevent the stomp thing as well unless the slow aoe has a huge range but they don’t seem that concerned about us having low stomp protection.)

Nageth.5648:

I’d settle for a channeled aoe damage attack that puts a burning or slow condition on them. Because then you’d either be increasing your chance of downing someone yourself or give yourself more of an ability to run away in vapor form. (Doesn’t prevent the stomp thing as well unless the slow aoe has a huge range but they don’t seem that concerned about us having low stomp protection.)

I think there are 2 quick fixes available: Make #2 knockdown instead of a channeled root, or switch #2 and #3 so you can use vapor form to “interrupt” the first stomp.

I hate our downed state as much as anyone else, but to be clear – everyone realizes that dodges work in mist state, correct? You can actually get quite a bit farther away with two dodges in mist form than you may realize.

ATMAvatar.5749:

I hate our downed state as much as anyone else, but to be clear – everyone realizes that dodges work in mist state, correct? You can actually get quite a bit farther away with two dodges in mist form than you may realize.

Wait, dodge works? Hmmm. I think you can also jump with mist form. I wonder if those are bugs or not.

they can add a downed skill to complement our current excellent set: raise “Please Kill Me” flag (50 sec CD)

I don’t even push buttons when downed in WvW. Sure if its a 1v1 or something or if it is a close fight… or someone nearby is near dead… I’ll fling some poo their way. But, I just accept my fate when downed.

On the rare event that I am not surrounded by bad guys (such as a keep siege), I can heal some and then maybe mist out. But that event is so uncommon that it can be said our abilities just plain sux.

So much outcry over this issue and even players from other classes feel sorry for eles yet not a peep from anet about it.

There isn’t a peep from Anet about any issue about the elementalist. Just the way the cookie crumbles I suppose.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There isn’t a peep from Anet about any issue about the elementalist. Just the way the cookie crumbles I suppose.

Just because they haven’t said anything doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.

DreadShinobi.4751:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There isn’t a peep from Anet about any issue about the elementalist. Just the way the cookie crumbles I suppose.

Just because they haven’t said anything doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.

they are wise people, so they would inform their players base about something of their concern… if they aren’t saying anything, it means they are currently working on something else, as painful as it might be for us eles

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There isn’t a peep from Anet about any issue about the elementalist. Just the way the cookie crumbles I suppose.

They already said they’re not making any changes (other than urgent stuff and bug fixes) until they get a proper overview over the current balance situation.
Rest assured they are aware of nearly all complaints though.

As for the main topic.

I’ve played just about any class now, and ele downed state is by far the worst.
I’m always trying to find a good use for the downed skills, but with ele that’s a tricky thing. The only solid use for ele downed form I have found is that if something can not dps you down in 10 seconds (talking purely PvE here !) you can actually survive almost indefinitely.

You dps him some, go into vapour form when you’re at 10% HP (in downed state), move away a bit (helps if you just snared him with #2 right before that) and proceed further with now 50% HP left.
That is the ONLY PRO THING i managed to get out of Ele downed state, and that ONLY WORKS in zones up to level 20ish vs single target non elites, hoping you don’t run into patrols or anything.

It’s rediculous how diverse the downed states of classes are. With my thief I can prevent a stomp for ages by simply moving away or stealthing.
With my mesmer I can do probably more dps downed than an elementalist while alive (lolololol).
My ranger one isn’t superb either, but at least I get two heals and a daze; so I can prevent that initial damage/stomp and get my pet over to heal me rather fast.

I would rather see others downed state nerfed to our state rather than us buffed to theirs.

But yeah our downed state is bad.

Vanisher.9216:

I would rather see others downed state nerfed to our state rather than us buffed to theirs.

But yeah our downed state is bad.

So, you want downed states to be completely pointless? By that point, might as well remove them entirely from the game.

After I saw this post yesterday, and went back on my Elementalist, I noticed this issue as well. My Warrior, quite often, can survive long enough, get off a Vengeance, and finish off an enemy in PvE, or if lucky, in WvW. MY Elementalist has only survived downed once, and thats because the enemy was burned and died while I was downed.

I had an idea for a change, that could go well with the Elementalist’s profession mechanic…namely, having our downed state based upon our attunement at death. Skills that fit with the element, and(hopefully) are more useful when downed than what we currently have. i.e, If I am downed while attuned to Air, I have the current 1, A Blowback for 2, and some other 3 skill that I haven’t thought too much about, while as earth, I could have a “rock throw” type skill for 1, a Knockdown for 2, a defensive skill for 3.

The #2 skill is the most useless thing ever and really needs to be a knockdown or some other form of interrupt.

It’s ridiculous… great, I rooted the guy right on top of me, that will stop his stomp… oh, wait… maybe I can mist form… oh wait, it starts with a long cool down… guess I’ll just hurry up and die then.

I think: if the Vapor Form start with 3 second cd instead of 8, it will be perfect.

Nyth.3492

With my mesmer I can do probably more dps downed than an elementalist while alive (lolololol).

That’s not funny.

Am I the only one that doesn’t mind ele downed state lol? You can’t interrupt a quick stomp but if your teammate does interrupt it for you or the enemies are too slow, you’re pretty much golden. Once I get vapor form, I usually get away to heal myself or get better positioning to get revived by a teammate. I can usually create enough distance with vapor form so that when I do go back down, the root actually works to keep them from stopping me. And vapor form resets your hp. It only sucks when you’re fighting 1v1 against a melee class.

Vandal.8029:

if your teammate does interrupt it for you

Yes, but we are the only class that need other player to survive.

Vandal.8029:

or the enemies are too slow

If the enemy is slow 8 seconds are enough for kill with auto-attack

The abilities is beautiful and useful but the 8 seconds start is too much.

Has no one else noticed that the downed mist form actually increases your downed penalty, and you can actually be defeated when it wears off if you happen to survive long enough? If you’re nearly fully healed when you hit it, when it wears off your health will be less than it was when you first entered the downed state. Speeding up the recharge on it would simply mean elementalists die that much faster on their own.

Mist form also damages your armor from what I can tell. The only useful thing we have in downed state takes forever to be ready and costs us money.

Supervillain.8617:

Has no one else noticed that the downed mist form actually increases your downed penalty, and you can actually be defeated when it wears off if you happen to survive long enough? If you’re nearly fully healed when you hit it, when it wears off your health will be less than it was when you first entered the downed state. Speeding up the recharge on it would simply mean elementalists die that much faster on their own.

Yeah I have noticed this, in fact I have even died from it, as you well point out. At the time it was quite the surprise, lol. Regarding the ele’s downed state, I have played an ele up to 80 and gotten quite used to its play style. That is, dexterously kiting while carefully timing every skill in every attunement and then kiting until those skills come off cooldown to keep the fight going.

When this failed, naturally came the downed state, at which point I would reluctantly try to stay alive, but inside I knew my chances were nonexistent if the mob’s health wasn’t already down to a sliver, or someone wasn’t around. Skill 3 aside, for the reasons you mention, I’ve yet to find a real use for skill 2, every mob is always up close, and its cast time is so slow they will be if they aren’t already, this is more true in Orr where Risen run like athletes on steroids; that or they are ranged mobs. Skill 1 is too slow for too little damage. However, after playing a Mesmer alt last night, and getting downed, and successfully rallying while fighting a group of mobs, I was in disbelief. I’d gotten so used to dying after getting downed as an ele, that I was giddy about how this “rallying” thing was happening so easily.

Vapour form doesn’t always reset your downed bar to halfway. I don’t know what’s the bug – it doing that or it not doing that, but sometimes mine resets and sometimes it doesn’t.

I have nothing to add to the discussion but I’m signing the petition in the hopes that more complaints about the issue = higher chance of it being prioritized.

Being downed in PvP, I also sometimes save myself the frustration and just let the enemy finish me off without fighting. It feels like my options are:
-Press 1: throw a tiny feather at the enemy every 10 seconds, through a wall of tar, like punching in a dream
-Press 2: do nothing, also through a wall of tar, in slow motion
-Wait until I can press 3: move from death spot A to death spot B, 2 metres away, then die there instead
Press 4: Selflessly give the enemy some extra satisfaction when they finish me, and the excuse to yell “DENIED!” outloud.

Vapour form doesn’t always reset your downed bar to halfway. I don’t know what’s the bug – it doing that or it not doing that, but sometimes mine resets and sometimes it doesn’t.

What happens is that it counts as ‘downing’ yourself again stupidly enough. The reason why it usually seems to be at half health is because you’re at second downed state.

You can go down 3 times in short span before actually just dying straight out when you go down. There’s a little symbol to the bottom left of your health that changes colors based on this. At first down, it’s 75% health, then 50, then 25, then dead.

So when you first go down, you’re at 75. Then if you use mist, it’s downing you again and you’re at 50. If you started at 25 and Misted, you actually just die at the end of the mist. It’s happened to me before and it’s REALLY annoying.

Completely agree. Everyone has a away to avoid/interrupt the first stomp except elementalists. You have to pray that your opponent has a minor ceisure and is unable to press the stomp button for ~3seconds, otherwise guaranteed that you’re dead. I really like the idea of making number 2 a knockdown (idc if it did 0 damage) and would put the ele downed state on par with everyone else’s. Side note: I love how they took away the thief downed skills from beta and gave them to mesmers, now everyone complains about downed mesmers lol

I love this class and all that stuff but when we are downed especially in tpvp its freaking annoying. I do not care about balance issues and everything but this needs to be fixed asap.

Amnon.4769:

I agree that Elementalists could use a PvP-themed downed skill. As for Mesmers, oh how I hate you guys! The first 10% of the fight is killing you, and the following 90% is trying to finish you off in downed state!

Hell dude they could use a PVE themed downed skill as mobs will simply follow your mistform.

You can root them before doing so but it doesn’t last long enough to be significant, plus you can’t even use it to drop off the edge of cliffs to stop them getting to you as you still take falling damage while foggified and splat all the same.

It would be awesome if 2nd skill was a short-distance lightning flash.

A 2 second mist form would work too.

Yup, we need a reowrk of our downed skills /sign

How about the second skill is replaced with the (5) skill from our utility Frost Bow? The one that turns your target into a block of ice for several seconds.

Or maybe an AoE chill effect around you that also slows down the finisher animation?

My opinion:
Let ² interrupt/pushback/drag.
If that makes ³ too overpowered as a second skill, then just reduce the duration of it by 50%.
If it comes to using Vapor while downed, it’s usually so that you won the fight already anyway. Seeing that a downed elementalist is usually the first focus of enemies, cus they know it’s a quick and easy kill.:-)

Run forward (never backwards) and use dodge in vapor form for more distance.

Downed state 2 is worthless, especially if killed by a melee who is already in stomp range..

Yay, you’re rooted right next to me so you don’t accidentally run off and not stomp me.

Weirwynn.2390:

Pardon my PvP ignorance, does vapor form not interrupt stomps?

The problem with this is that when you are downed, you are badly damaged (by definition).

When Mist Form goes off, you get to run for a few seconds, then you become solid and ready to be hit again. Because Mist Form shows where you are going, everyone just aims at where you are going and blasts you. Then you pretty much die tired.

This would be better if it either had a longer duration or if you could not be seen (or be seen with less certainty). Maybe you could be replaced by a slowly expanding fog and be free to run inside it (in whatever direction you choose) before you become solid again?

I agree that the current downed state is basically useless in both PvE and PvP.

I would vote for an AOE knock back that then applies roots to those knocked back.

Then either an invisible vapor form, or a teleport to a new location. The cooldown needs to be short enough so that it can be applied immediately after the AOE knock back.