Q:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Q:
How do you play in WWW dynamic zergs?
I play on SFR and most zergs have to follow order from their guild leader or the commander leading the zerg.
If i have to defend a wall or to fight in an area (ex preventing enemy zerg to reach your siege machines), staff is ok.
If i have to roam…i equip D/D and i m fine…maybe because its what i mostly do.
If i have to follow the fast and tight maneuvers of a zerg i just feel useless :/ for the lack of a cleaving autoattack + passive survivability.
Staff is too slow, D/D dies too fast and his skill takes you out of the zerg….
Yeah i feel exatly the same, can’t dps when running arrounds, most projectiles dont even hit the targets then.
not to mention we die very very fast, even though i have 2700 tough, and 17k hp, this is getting annoying, dmg numbers can’t get higher than 2k dmg with critdmg +90%.
No our class is ok i guess, /sarcasm
It kinda depends on how important you feel it is to be as effective as possible. Personally I care far more about enjoying myself than making my team win. I am most useful going staff wearing 23k hp with about 600 healing. Survivability is pretty close to guardian’s. Glued to a commander, saving fields for when he asks for it is how ele ‘should’ be played in my humble opinion. . Spreading your boons to anyone nearby. The regen from being in water attunement, EA and attunement switches alone justify bringing an ele. All spells you manage to cast are a bonus, no more.
Note that this is a role that can be played by any ele, no matter how inexperienced. You are pure support so not getting any loot either. Also, it is extremely boring. Like being a WoW priest without getting credit for keeping the tank / raid up.
I zerg mainly d/d nowadays. Half zerker at least. Can’t stay on tag all the time though.
Lots of new ele alts around anyways that don’t mind going pure support every now and then, and my server is winning. So i don’t have to play smart.
It kinda depends on how important you feel it is to be as effective as possible. Personally I care far more about enjoying myself than making my team win. I am most useful going staff wearing 23k hp with about 600 healing. Survivability is pretty close to guardian’s. Glued to a commander, saving fields for when he asks for it is how ele ‘should’ be played in my humble opinion. . Spreading your boons to anyone nearby. The regen from being in water attunement, EA and attunement switches alone justify bringing an ele. All spells you manage to cast are a bonus, no more.
No ty i don t want to play full support.
They said there wouldn t be the “healer role” in gw2
I zerg mainly d/d nowadays. Half zerker at least. Can’t stay on tag all the time though.
Lots of new ele alts around anyways that don’t mind going pure support every now and then, and my server is winning. So i don’t have to play smart.
This is interesting but… ._. fire 3-4, earth 3-4, air 4-5 are not compatible with zergs
At least this is my problem….
Its hard to explain but when you face a zerg, good commanders perform really tight manouvers…..i struggle in those (well i end up out of the zerg…).
d/d all day
/15 characters
Zerker Staff Ele here, if you position yourself good, you can do big things, trust me I even managed to reduce a single enemy zerg to half by my Lafa font + Meteor Shower and then my zerg came in and finished the job Got a lot of bags that time, nice one
Don’t stay in the zerg. Stay behind/to the side of the zerg. Screw your commander. If he wants you to do certain things that’s wrong, he doesn’t know how to use you. As full DPS Zerk Ele your job is to soften the enemy greatly with Lava Font and Meteo, and or kill them outright. You can turn the tide of a battle single handedly. You wont win single-handedly, but your damage support is often enough to totally win the battle for your zerg.
You can do massive damage, it’s not uncommon to wipe ten enemies in a meteo smash when you dart in at the right moment, cast, and run back out. Repeat this a few times in a big zerg fight and you’ll win in no time.
That’s how to play Staff Ele. You don’t need a cleaving auto attack, your AOE is far better, and safer to boot.
Don’t stay in the zerg. Stay behind/to the side of the zerg. Screw your commander. If he wants you to do certain things that’s wrong, he doesn’t know how to use you. As full DPS Zerk Ele your job is to soften the enemy greatly with Lava Font and Meteo, and or kill them outright. You can turn the tide of a battle single handedly. You wont win single-handedly, but your damage support is often enough to totally win the battle for your zerg.
You can do massive damage, it’s not uncommon to wipe ten enemies in a meteo smash when you dart in at the right moment, cast, and run back out. Repeat this a few times in a big zerg fight and you’ll win in no time.
That’s how to play Staff Ele. You don’t need a cleaving auto attack, your AOE is far better, and safer to boot.
You can t go zerk in a www train..
You end up being a free rally for opponents…
Advanced www commanders make so the zerg has a huge set of buffs to stay alive exiting the ranks means give the chance to half the opposing zerg to rally.
Don’t stay in the zerg. Stay behind/to the side of the zerg. Screw your commander. If he wants you to do certain things that’s wrong, he doesn’t know how to use you. As full DPS Zerk Ele your job is to soften the enemy greatly with Lava Font and Meteo, and or kill them outright. You can turn the tide of a battle single handedly. You wont win single-handedly, but your damage support is often enough to totally win the battle for your zerg.
You can do massive damage, it’s not uncommon to wipe ten enemies in a meteo smash when you dart in at the right moment, cast, and run back out. Repeat this a few times in a big zerg fight and you’ll win in no time.
That’s how to play Staff Ele. You don’t need a cleaving auto attack, your AOE is far better, and safer to boot.
You can t go zerk in a www train..
You end up being a free rally for opponents…
Advanced www commanders make so the zerg has a huge set of buffs to stay alive exiting the ranks means give the chance to half the opposing zerg to rally.
If you allow enemy to use you as a rally-bait, you’re doing it wrong. With staff, you’re able to be concealed in the crowd and you’re escapes with staff allows you to get to safe distance within a fraction of a second, that’s the way to do it
Umm i guess i m not good at explaining..
If you exit the zerg for 1 second you get perma stun/chilled/agony/poison/Fire/ etc etc etc before being able to press a button..
Its the reason why some commanders can lead their zerg to wipe opponents double in number.
As other people have pointed out, support your zerg from range while they’re pushing through. In big WvW fights you will generally not get targeted a lot if you’re standing by yourself. Even if you do get attacked, using your defensive abilities will usually quickly make them lose interest while you reposition.
In some situations you can’t avoid pushing with your zerg (i.e. when going through a gate). In these situations just be ready to use Mist Form/Armor of Earth and double dodge through the choke/enemy zerg.
ok the part from the distance is clear i figured it already…
When you have to push instead
Considering you want to do something more than running… wich skill do you use?
ok the part from the distance is clear i figured it already…
When you have to push insteadConsidering you want to do something more than running… wich skill do you use?
If you have to push, you don’t press anything. You double dodge through until you’re in a safe position.
Other than that, the only ability you can’t use while running is Meteor Shower so I’m not sure what the problem is.
casting time and dodges i don t blindly use defensive skill usually…
autoattack is bad, and rolling interrupts everything on staff
Dagger is faster but have most rooted or mobility skills that could get you in the wrong place if commander turns.
casting time and dodges i don t blindly use defensive skill usually…
autoattack is bad, and rolling interrupts everything on staff
Dagger is faster but have most rooted or mobility skills that could get you in the wrong place if commander turns.
If you’re pushing through a choke or a zerg and you are doing anything but dodging you are very likely going to die. Let the heavy armor classes do their thing in that situation while you position yourself.
Enemy CC/conditions aren’t supposed to hit you because you’re in the back line. If you are getting hit, you are not positioned properly.
As Staff Nuker Zerk Ele you need to hide in the back where the enemy can’t get you. You don’t need to be in the zerg and receiving all the buffs, though usually you can get the might stack buffs when your zerg stacks. After that no need to stay in the middle of the action, do that and you will be rally bait.
As for pushing… generally, you don’t push — you stay in the back. When your zerg pushes, you don’t push with them, you cast Meteor or Lava Font in front of them to aid in the push. That’s how you push — with your magic, not your body. Lava Font is great for pushing because many zergs (especially PUG zergs) instinctively avoid red circles, so when you cast a blasting staff lava font where your zerg pushes, they tend to break and your zerg can push in.
If you need to go through a choke point — you let your zerg do it, you stay behind until its safe. If you really need to go with your zerg, which is rare in my experience, you use Mistform to get through an AC zone — usually in gates or in entrances like in Stone Mist Lord’s room. Then you sneak into the sides, and cast from the side of the room. But again, generally, you don’t need to — for instance in SM when the enemy has the Lord’s room corridor dotted with AC rain, your zerg pushes in with their usuall zerg ball tactics and support/defense buffs, you stay in the back outside of the red circles. Once your zerg is in, the fire shifts to them, THEN you push in behind your zerg, then rain the meteos and lava fonts. It’s simple really — not sure what the problem is. Again, you don’t push with your zerg, you stay behind your zerg in the back line and support with damage.
berkserk staff ele here with 8-9k meteor shower.
positioning and know when and where to drop big spell.
check for retaliation before you want to drop AoE on the zerg ball or you better choose to nuke the tail of the zerg instead.
Follow behind the hammer train in a zerket s/d then blow people up. Its tricky you gotta get in and out but the numbers are amazing
Smart Guilds dodge through tank line and attack the dps line.
As a staff elem how do you define success? How is your play style? How does your play style fit with the guild you run with? How does it fit with your servers zerg?
Staff to slow? Are you focusing on one individual? As a staff elem I try to focus on a single target and specific areas. Sometimes they coincide.
What are the tendencies of your guild leader? Anticipate and throw aoes to funnel opposition or heals where needed.
What are the tendencies of your opponent? Do they dodge to the right, do they charge straight through, do they take a stand with dps in the back, or etc. Anticipate and cast.
All builds have their advantages and disadvantages depending on play style; find yours and adjust.
6 months straight as a staff elem, my only character, and I am still trying new builds. I found many successful ones but I am still trying to find that one the works best for me and my guild.
(edited by Jarek.2430)
if you want to run d/d in a zerg 0-0-10-30-30 with aura sharing and the earth trait that auras give protection is really good you should really focus on giving boons, auras, and heals to the people that need it most. getting behind the enemy zerg and just being really annoying is also a good strategy, i also do this with staff just trying to break there zerg apart and cause havoc …its usualy not a good idea to run into a zerg that is facing you try to get around them. that being said i play in bronze league and the zergs are much less organized. I also spend most of my time roaming in small groups and havent ran with large zergs lately, but i used to be in a pretty large organized wvw guild so i have some experience
Enemy CC/conditions aren’t supposed to hit you because you’re in the back line. If you are getting hit, you are not positioned properly.
and the rest of the text…
You making it sound as if a zerg is always moving in a straight line, which obviously is not the case.. A zerg will always move left, right, back or in a circle.. If you are just gonna stay in the back you will most likely fall behind.
(edited by paleeshi.1924)
How do you play in WWW dynamic zergs?
I play on SFR and most zergs have to follow order from their guild leader or the commander leading the zerg.
If i have to defend a wall or to fight in an area (ex preventing enemy zerg to reach your siege machines), staff is ok.
If i have to roam…i equip D/D and i m fine…maybe because its what i mostly do.
If i have to follow the fast and tight maneuvers of a zerg i just feel useless :/ for the lack of a cleaving autoattack + passive survivability.
Staff is too slow, D/D dies too fast and his skill takes you out of the zerg….
I do too play on SFR, and mostly I use the staff with zergs.. Just like you I don’t like the healer roll but I focus on DPS and CC with staff. Therefore I’m using kinights gear and cavalier trinkets to be able to survive but dish out some damage as well.
However I don’t really understand your logic about D/D dying too fast. It’s not the matter of weapon set but what gear you are wearing, and traits ofc. With that being said, I am personally also looking for a D/D zerg friendly build. Technically of you gear/trait properly and stack on commander as much as possible, you should get enough defense, healing, etc from the group. PLUS it gives you the “cleave” option following a melee train. But it seems that commanders always wants us to use static and water fields so I run with staff :P
I’ve personally tested different gear set ups and I’ve kinda got used to more crit chance and crit damage (was running soldier with celestial before), but I think an aura share D/D build in zergs would be nice. Which also means that I will need to sacrifice some of my damage to get more vitality and toughness and that’s my only issue right now :P
Zerker Staff Ele here, if you position yourself good, you can do big things, trust me I even managed to reduce a single enemy zerg to half by my Lafa font + Meteor Shower and then my zerg came in and finished the job Got a lot of bags that time, nice one
Any class with any weapon can do the exact same in that situation
Zerker gear + not being attacked = easy bags
With staff, you don’t push in with the zerg. You let the melee guys go in first. When the zerg is moving around, you want to stay kind of off to the side, close enough to drop your fields. The zerg will either push straight in, or turn. When turning you stay on the outer side. Regroup with the zerg when most of the enemies are downed or when your group is stacking again for might.
If you have to run through a bunch of arrow carts or something, double dodge, armor of earth coupled with all of your condition removal should get you through. Mist form is great for getting into a tower or keep that is blocked by a zerg.
One thing i learned the hard way is commanders are mostly commanding the melees, unless they call for a field. For the longest time I would push with everyone, until I really started playing wvw daily and picking up info from discussion on teamspeak. You should find a good ele on your server and ask to party/shadow them. Or just watch how the other eles position themselves.
First, if you’re gearing beserker in zergs then you’re only helping the other side. You’ll tag a bunch of people, even down them, but then you’ll be downed yourself in seconds potentially rallying half their zerg again.
Second, have no illusions, your main contribution as an Ele in ZvZ is as a healbot with clutch CC. Damage is a distant 3rd to healing/condition clearing and watching for key CC opportunities, surviving at all costs.
If you want to be a primary damage dealer in zergs and be effective at it, reroll warrior or necro.
(edited by scerevisiae.1972)
Umm i guess i m not good at explaining..
If you exit the zerg for 1 second you get perma stun/chilled/agony/poison/Fire/ etc etc etc before being able to press a button..
Its the reason why some commanders can lead their zerg to wipe opponents double in number.
So… any organised zerg is going to have 2-3 parts
Front line: (the zerg ball) focusing on cleave damage and stuns, needs to have a good passive sustain and be relativity tough.
Back Line: You do not charge in with the zerg but “orbit” around the action. You will build more glass cannon and focus on doing good damage (as an ele you want to meet up with the front line as they regroup for water combos)
Your role as a Back Line is crucial to the success of any zerg and it allows you to take on zergs 2 or 3x your size. As a staff ele a well places Meteor can whipe a zerg, and Lava Font does some great damage on a short cd. Also even if your not support learning when to drop your CCs and drop water fields for a regroup will save your zergs hide.
An effective zerg can heal back to 100% restack might and stability on regroup, and regroup once every 15-20 sec.
EDIT: forgot the 3rd part…
Roamers/Spikers not every WvW guilds employs this but we find it effective. THFs Engis and S/D Eles will hold back and pick off priority targets using burst single target damage (THFs are the best at this for obvious reasons)
if your just in a giant pug ball then the only reason you have been having any success is that your playing against scrubs. Organised Zergs are complicated.
(edited by tattoohead.3217)
Enemy CC/conditions aren’t supposed to hit you because you’re in the back line. If you are getting hit, you are not positioned properly.
and the rest of the text…
You making it sound as if a zerg is always moving in a straight line, which obviously is not the case.. A zerg will always move left, right, back or in a circle.. If you are just gonna stay in the back you will most likely fall behind.
Obviously since you are aware of this fact, you should have figured out that when I say “back” I mean the side of your Zerg opposite where the enemy Zerg is. That’s what positional awareness is all about in playing Zerker Ele in Zergs.
First, if you’re gearing beserker in zergs then you’re only helping the other side. You’ll tag a bunch of people, even down them, but then you’ll be downed yourself in seconds potentially rallying half their zerg again.
Second, have no illusions, your main contribution as an Ele in ZvZ is as a healbot with clutch CC. Damage is a distant 3rd to healing/condition clearing and watching for key CC opportunities, surviving at all costs.
If you want to be a primary damage dealer in zergs and be effective at it, reroll warrior or necro.
This post is just so wrong on many counts.
That may be how it works for you, because you play style isn’t making it happen for you. But I, and many others here, have already proven on the fields of battle that Zerker Ele can clear house with damage without becoming rally bait.
Honestly I always suggest taking the time to run Ice Bow when you’re roaming with a zerg. Ice Bow#4 decimates “stacked” enemies. I run a 2,000 power/55% crit chance/90% crit dmg build and with a single Ice Bow 4 I can usually down 2-4 people while massively wounding a few others. Not to mention it’s fantastic for helping bring down doors.
Lightning Flash – Ice Bow – Mist Form Do it, get those bags
Ive been running a modified version of a fresh air build as a commander in and out of zerg fights and hitting tons. I play scepter/focus and have far more defensive abilities and damage than most other builds.
If I am in the middle of the line, swirling winds gets all of those projectiles away from the zerg itself (except siege shots) but it means if those outside the center of the collision fire into the zerg, for six seconds our side’s projectiles hit, while our enemy’s projectiles are taken out of the equation.
I also get earth skill 4 i can use in the midline that keeps me alive, while my earth skill 5 gives me greater defense and protection after a zerg rush. I can make my dragons tooth hit in confusion, as well as my phoenix all the way to my sandstorm and frost bow ice storms.
Way I survive getting focused is either lightning flashing to the backline or using my earth skills which grant me more staying power in a zerg and still high damage output than any of those low damage, 0/10/0/30/30 builds out there.
Sure, anyone can reply negatively to this post but bare in mind…I was commanding and taking part in open field zerg wars against JQ and SoR last week and managed to survive most of these battles, both of which are tier 1 servers.
Hell, I will go to say the following:
10 – 12 major builds so far, 9 sets of armor, several sets of weapons as an elly. I havent used 0/10/0/30/30 for months unless I am asked for it. In fact, I haven’t used evasive arcana, mistform (outside of downed state) and most of those basic traits more ellys are addicted to….for over a month….
…and Ive gotten far better playing without major dependencies.
@Setsunayaki.4907: intrigued now… care to share your build with us?
Seems like i appear to be one awesome staff ele if i have to believe all these rants on how staff sucks in zergs for them.
A staff ele can do so much (if you’re using other skills besides autoattack that is) once you know how to maneuver. A lot of the time, your surviviability depends on how you position yourself. Sometimes on the commander who’s taking all the heat is the safest place, and sometimes 2 dodges away from the commander is safer. If you play in a zerg vs zerg fight, and you dont have trouble with lag and what not, you can observe the enemy zerg’s movement. If you can observe this, you know how to move around and position yourself in order to keep fighting and survive. Your utilities and water fields are a god bless if you know when to use them.
autoattacks indeed suck, but that’s why you need to use other skills and rotate if needed through attunements.
D/D is in a weird place right now. I’ve had the most success with PVT melandru/half clerics/half celestial trinkets. Full cleanse bunker/ 10 fury/sprint from air. My 2nd set I use is Knights with Travelers/ Celestial trinkets. This is is a nice spread of crit/crit damage/ and heals. This is fast for soloing camps, and small fights. Know when to alternate your heals. Necro will be next to impossible without Ether Renewal on.
For staff I alternate the talents based on how many people are with me, but retain the same general spec of 0/30/0/10/30. Fresh air for small fights. I figure the only time you’d want to use reduced air cds is when you know you won’t have to be as mobile. But that’s not really a good example. I sometimes switch it for fury/sprint on magnetic aura so I can move faster, instead of just from air swap, and wasting a windborne speed that I may need as a mobility cleanse. Because the statics can easily be bypassed, taking the extra damage while target is stunned doesn’t really give you as much damage as fresh air, single target damage finisher as swapping to air repeatedly. If you’ve got 2-3 other decent staff eles with you, and your goal is max burst, then static on air 30 trait is best, with 10-20 points in fire instead of 30 arcana, or 10 water. I’ve tried reduced water cds, but it’s nowhere near as useful as an aoe cleanse on water attunement. Especially if you aren’t going as far as evasive arcana. I really love the overall speed of swapping/ rapid cc that 30 arcana gives us. Your meteors are still going to do great without any points in fire. And you’ll be much more mobile.
Scepter air 1 used to be really good on one of the patches, but they took the number of targets off the arc down to 1-3 or something. It’s not worth using. Plus 900 range anything is crap for this class. The spvp specs are extremely lackluster when applied to a WvW setting. You’ll watch a video and go HAM on someone, then realize you can do that with staff and actually have a chance of getting range when you have to for escapes.
… I havent used 0/10/0/30/30 for months unless I am asked for it. In fact, I haven’t used evasive arcana, mistform (outside of downed state) and most of those basic traits more ellys are addicted to….for over a month….
…and Ive gotten far better playing without major dependencies.
Well, when they added the movement speed to Mist Form, while still being a stun breaker, I like using it for places where I know I’m going to need to more than a cleanse. I can pretty easily lay down ccs, pop a mistform (with or without armor of earth) to get enough range to break combat. It makes it possible to avoid a lot of bursty specs from opponents when your other ccs are down.
Basically, never using mist form, isn’t really the best thing to do. But taking it out for cleansing flame, frost bow, signet of air, etc is also good to experiment with from time to time.
My personal playstyle is to float around action, solo roam, and rarely die, all while usually not being in a group at all. I’m almost always the one calling the targets in groups I’m in.
Zerker Staff Ele here, if you position yourself good, you can do big things, trust me I even managed to reduce a single enemy zerg to half by my Lafa font + Meteor Shower and then my zerg came in and finished the job Got a lot of bags that time, nice one
Any class with any weapon can do the exact same in that situation
Zerker gear + not being attacked = easy bags
Show me the video with “any class” doing that with 2 spells, and I’ll believe you
In zergs for eles you have 2 options, stay on the tag and hope you’re running staff:d/d bunker or stay off to the “side” and try to seperated their back end from their front lines. Split them and make them scatter.
Honestly in both situations it’s all about positioning. I run s/x, depends on if I need more support or control/dps, and do what I said up top. Come through and split them with phoneix and DT. Wait and drop a CE on the back lines etc etc.
If you want dmg you do NOT need to go glass. My burst build using no arcane skills and I burst ppl down left and right. It’s great seeing a DT hit for 7k or phoneix blast through and smack a group for 3-8k(their build defines dmg dealt) twice.
Focus their back lines. That’s where most of their casters usually like to try and hide while the guards wars and water bot eles run on tag.
One trick I like to use is go around to the side of the enemy zerg, and unleash my Meteor Shower and control skills somewhere in the center. You’d be surprised how often a zerg is focused on their front, completely ignoring the lonely ele that wrecks havoc on their sides.
Yeah, just be mindful of thieves skipping around on the sidelines looking for that. Also, focus target your heavies so you’re not completely blocked off from friendlies at any point in time do to a shift in movement.
If I have knights on and I’m running up on the enemy beside the heavies/ commander, I might even run ahead of them to CC a veil attempt, and get the tags in early. Then burning retreat away. This also makes some people forfeit their veil by trying to DPS me. Dangerous? Check. Smart? 50/50. You can usually gauge where a commander is going to through the veil by the direction the backliners move toward while entering the veil. You drop the CC there, and retreat opposite it.
I do crazy things like static/meteor while the enemy is running toward me, then lightning flash/burning retreat/mistform to gain as much ground as possible. They are using a lot of cds to get me down, and my zerg is running into them while they’re doing this. Their commander probably doesn’t even realize how bad for them this is.
I play zerk ele. It can be a lot of fun, although the damage can sometimes be bad, even as full zerker, but I survive pretty well, so I dont see a reason not to be zerker. A well placed meteor + tornado can be a zerg fight changer. Its not uncommon to drop a meteor on a stack of enemies banging on a door, and down a few of them.
One other thing I like to do is use lightning flash offensively. Ill go through a mesmer vale, get stealth, lightning flash ahead of the zerg to get a good static field down on the enemy.
One trick I like to use is go around to the side of the enemy zerg, and unleash my Meteor Shower and control skills somewhere in the center. You’d be surprised how often a zerg is focused on their front, completely ignoring the lonely ele that wrecks havoc on their sides.
Noticed this too. A good zerg follows their commander tightly and when the commander calls to bomb on him, people do as they are told. So if you’re standing away from that area, you can safely smash down a couple aoe’s down on them.
I guess people, especially melee can be literally a bit tunnel visioned, ignoring their surroundings.
If you get hit by the front of the enemy zerg, a safe way to avoid their trainwreck is to simply dodge once (or twice depending on size of zerg) forward into the enemy zerg. You land at the backlines and from there it’s easy to make them scatter.
What runes do you guys use for Zerker Staff? You think Scholar is the best option? I’m using Vital Striking right now
One trick I like to use is go around to the side of the enemy zerg, and unleash my Meteor Shower and control skills somewhere in the center. You’d be surprised how often a zerg is focused on their front, completely ignoring the lonely ele that wrecks havoc on their sides.
Noticed this too. A good zerg follows their commander tightly and when the commander calls to bomb on him, people do as they are told. So if you’re standing away from that area, you can safely smash down a couple aoe’s down on them.
I guess people, especially melee can be literally a bit tunnel visioned, ignoring their surroundings.
If you get hit by the front of the enemy zerg, a safe way to avoid their trainwreck is to simply dodge once (or twice depending on size of zerg) forward into the enemy zerg. You land at the backlines and from there it’s easy to make them scatter.
situational awareness as they say. People focus too much on the blue tag and following his orders, which isnt a bad thing. It helps to stay on a smart commander. But i feel that its also integral to have a group or 2 bombing the back lines and trying to split the enemy zerg.
Bunker d/d rarely dies for me in zerg v zerg, and I tag people way easier than with staff, or thief/warrior. I’ve had a lot of tagging practice from farming in orr after launch though lol. You can’t go glass though, you need at least 15 in water and 30 arcana, with some defensive gear. You can burning speed right in the middle of a zerg after popping armor of earth, lay down a fire field, drake’s breath and rtl or lf back out if you get too much damage on you. That alone will get you a ton of bags, but usually you can do more while in the thick of it. Like fire grab, earth dodge, earthquake, spike ring (whatever it’s called), lightning whip, cone of cold, etc.
Sigil of geomancy is great for tagging btw.
Of course for really big zergs that outnumber you and ranged skirmishes at chokepoints, switch to staff.
(edited by Jabberwock.9014)
I kind of agree with this, Staff isn’t the best option for zerging but at the same time I do like being able to stay out of the melee fray when 2 zergs collide. I find the best way is to simple throw aoes every where and aim for the main clusters of enemies. It does wonders when you force their range support to spend more time fleeing then shooting.
When it comes to towers tho, Thats when ele staff really shines
(edited by Chaotic Storm.2815)
I kind of agree with this, Staff isn’t the best option for zerging
i lol’d
A zerg without staff ele’s is a ded zerg.
For my zerg staff ele I have been running nothing but PVT lately. 20/0/0/20/30. With all stacks, wvw bonuses and food you rarely die in this setup and you are over 4100 power with no might stacks. I concentrate on killing seige or water and fire fields a lot so crit does me no good. The build one shots superior ac’s on walls with meteor shower and you do get big numbers on enemies still with zero crit damage and 4% crit chance.
I hate going full glass cause when you come across any half decent player in wvw with staff on goodbye stacks.
@Retsuko
Oh staff builds for zergs are not useless. In fact one of my favorite builds I used previously to my fresh air build as a support build that has some good damage in groups and is balanced out was 10/10/5/15/30. This build required full celestial ascended equipment as every point counted as well as those willing to get full infusions in order. I ran runes to give me either confusion or torment as a third damage condition. Running torment, I also used a sigil to increase my power, but food for condition damage and condition duration along with another weapon to switch out bloodlust sigil when its at 25 stacks. I loved the one that caused AoE bleeding.
I would open up fights by throwing eruption when might stacked. Then I would throw a frozen ground, have it detonate for area frost armor. Then the dodge roll, attunement swapping and my traits and buffs, I easilly had players with burning, weakness, torment. 20 – 25 stacks of bleeding, cripple, etc while doing good damage with ice bow’s ice storm, meteor shower and other skills. I used my staff build for months before working a fresh air build due to all that staff has to offer.
Though it had damage that was good might stacked from an outside source, it was a support build aimed at reinforcing anything out there. Good in dungeons, fractals and WvW since you needed to output damage and have some survivability.
As far as my fresh air build went. I use s 20/30/0/10/10 build with berserker armor + divinity runes from an old set along with full celestisl trinkets. Run with a
pair of guardians who can give you 24 stacks of might and know what you are doing and easilly enemies get killed and its nice having 3500 – 4000 point ice storm blasts in ice bow.
I use this build as a measure of keeping enemies off the line in zerg fight. Other ellys and I throw sandstorm into the point whete zergs clash and alternating we use swirling winds. That helps a lot against the zergs.
Fresh Air builds have to play differently, below is a list of things to do:
1) If you are pulled and are on air, throw your knockdown skill on focus, even if you dont have it due to being on fire, you still have your greatest chance at hitting with a point blank phoenix three times, for massive damage. If your KD skill works you can hit with dragons tooth and phoenix.
2) While you are launched or disabled, as long as long as you change to air, and use your arcane skills (the one with 1500 range) you can still hit.
3) if you are targetted in the midline, you get earth skill 4 , them you can use earth skill 5 which if all its ranged projectiled, the combination of that and swirling is 13 seconds of taking no damage from any projectile, but 4 seconds invul. In fact sometimed i use invulnerabilit on earth focus 5 and fire frost bow and ice storm on myself and down depleted enemies around me.
4) As long as you know your own place in a zerg battle its works out. Also if you are in a zerg battle and are not the commander, the build works great in focusing enemies who target commanders. I remember when I was being chased by an enemy commander, I hit him with Air focus skill 5, he fell and then our zerg rolled over him on their way back.
These builds are amazing if players with you, in your group know what you are running. Thing to elly is that if your group is horrible, everyone dies….but so many elly builds are out there where under good and experienced groups, the elly becomes the backbone that holds the group together.
Other thing was, I use Elemental Attunement like 40% of the time. Only in good and experienced groups do I use it, it breaks the rhythm an elly has to attune and get the boon, which is mostly swiftness that doesnt help as much in-combat (when other classes have a much better way to grant swiftness. Staff elly swiftness actually removes all conditions hindering speed) as well as protection, which helps but not so easy to focus and target outside of certain conditions. Its an example of a trait that I absolutely loved and adored but had to learn the hard way why this perceived A+ trait is actually a C grade trait.
I’d much rather have a guardian trait five points to apply protection in virtues and use retreat to cover the group’s protection/swiftness need without ruining rhythm than have the poor elly trait 20 points in arcana post dec. 10th for a trait that at times the elly will lose their rhythm to apply the boon itself over playing the rest of the class.
Positioning?
you also stay behind or do you stay in the zerg train?
This seems to be the my last doubt.
i use this btw:
(i use D/D also >.> until i get bloodlust buff then i go zerging)
(edited by LordByron.8369)
Sadly, I feel that Guardian is much nicer in WvW zerging/melee train.. Much more enjoyable and just… won’t… die.. I run knights/cavalier set, not a full bunker guard.. Still astonished how they can get away with taking so much damage and be able to kill everything and everyone at the same time.
As for Ele, I feel the only time it’s worth running her in zergs is with staff for AoE tagging. D/D possibly for roaming. I’m trying a 30/10/0/10/20 build with staff just to dish some more damage, but feeling dam squishy.
For melee train Guardians are really strong in Zergs.
I suck at D/D so I can offer no advice on how Eles do in this situation. I’ll try to learn D/D someday.
For 30/10/0/10/20, I assume you are using Blasting Staff from Arcane, and Vital Striking for the 10 in Water? I have not experiment with this setup, but I think I will try it, as my current build is 30/20/0/0/20. I would like to get Vital Striking, I’ll give up some Precision and end up with a slightly lower crit chance… I guess around 44%?
(edited by Mochann.5298)
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