Guild Wars 2

Let’s stop for one moment and let’s think about the implications of such statement: the ele is perceived as OP at mele range, a caster class..your typical mage archetype is considered dangerous only when at mele range…how absurd is that?

Personally I never heard of a game where a caster class is considered dangerous at mele range rather than ranged where on the contrary is considered a free kill in most cases, to add more salt to the injury the developers come and tell me that the ele class is supposed to have the best control skills in the game..but where are these “oh kitten” control skills on staff or scepter?

Let’s be honest outside frozen ground and comet there is absolutely nothing worth mentioning on staff and scepter/focus when talking about control, nothing which can direct the flow of the battle in your favour.

What drives me toward the d/d, is not the damage , not the auras..but the efficient control skills, if I want to stay close to a target, I can do that because I can effectively push the flow of battle in my direction..but you can’t do that with a staff, where basically you can’t stop an opponent from reaching you in a short time and same thing happen with scepter.

They have been countless threads about this subject, how to improve scepter and staff…still not answer from the devs, who seems more interested in toning down the only polished set that does its job efficiently compared to the other two…not very clever in my opinion

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

actually there are quite a few game where caster are pretty dangerous at melee or really short range… those are the game where AoE is actually king… and so PBAoE are usually really effective (generally PBAoE have shorter cast time and higher dmg rue to the risk of the shorter range and so become really strong in the hand of a bit skillfull player)… an example is warhammer online… where one of the most feared bright wizard/sorcerer spec was based around the “close quarters” tactics that halved the casting time while in close range… making the long range-long casting time-high dmg AoE of those class turn into a short range-quick cast-high dmg AoE… but kittenill in those game the mage still FEEL like a mage… and can still be specced for an efficent ranged use… here when I play D/D (usually I run as a support staff rather than D/D… but when running solo to have a bit of effeciency I have to switch weapon set..) I really feel like an “magical versione of a thief”… the best comment I heard on this matter was from one player that stated smething like this (sorry but don’s tremember the actual post to make a quote): I rolled ele to play a mage not to play naruto-like ninja"

I think this sum it up pretty well…

What do you think makes us worse than any other profession?

Compare D/D to a Warrior with Hammer & Double-mace. That’s full on Controll for the Warrior! (Assuming that neither uses any Utility nor any Traits, which is probably for the benefit of the Warrior)

Warrior: AoE knockback, Stun, Cripple, AoE Stun. Daze, Line knockdown, Stun.

D/D Elementalist: Chill, Aura Chill. Aura Stun, AoE Knockback. AoE Cripple, Immobilize, AoE Stun, AoE Cripple

“. . . your typical mage archetype is considered dangerous only when at mele range…how absurd is that?” It’s a caster, not a Mage. Why is it bad that we get to do some Melee? Frankly, it’s my favorite part.

“. . . the developers come and tell me that the ele class is supposed to have the best control skills in the game” SOME of the best.

“. . . with a staff, where basically you can’t stop an opponent from reaching you in a short time” What? Sorry? I assume that you don’t roll around with a staff in sPvP, so that just leaves us to NPCs. We’ve Burning Retreat, Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Shockwave. If you can’t stop a pack of enemies with all that, you should get pass the newbie-state before complaining on the forums. They’re not going to change the roles of the Staff, scepter, or any other weapon, because there’s no need.

Phadde.7362:

What do you think makes us worse than any other profession?

Compare D/D to a Warrior with Hammer & Double-mace. That’s full on Controll for the Warrior! (Assuming that neither uses any Utility nor any Traits, which is probably for the benefit of the Warrior)

Warrior: AoE knockback, Stun, Cripple, AoE Stun. Daze, Line knockdown, Stun.

D/D Elementalist: Chill, Aura Chill. Aura Stun, AoE Knockback. AoE Cripple, Immobilize, AoE Stun, AoE Cripple

“. . . your typical mage archetype is considered dangerous only when at mele range…how absurd is that?” It’s a caster, not a Mage. Why is it bad that we get to do some Melee? Frankly, it’s my favorite part.

“. . . the developers come and tell me that the ele class is supposed to have the best control skills in the game” SOME of the best.

“. . . with a staff, where basically you can’t stop an opponent from reaching you in a short time” What? Sorry? I assume that you don’t roll around with a staff in sPvP, so that just leaves us to NPCs. We’ve Burning Retreat, Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Shockwave. If you can’t stop a pack of enemies with all that, you should get pass the newbie-state before complaining on the forums. They’re not going to change the roles of the Staff, scepter, or any other weapon, because there’s no need.

These staff escape skills have slow activation times allowing for plenty of reaction time to the opponent or are slow projectiles like Shockwave that can easily be dodged.

And you know what? It doesn’t matter, because what good are escape skills when the weapon has no offensive momentum/capacity. Lava Font is ground targeted on a small circle, Eruption needs to be paired with Shockwave to land on anyone (much like Dragon Tooth, Phoenix, and Shatterstone), and you will not outdps your opponent with mere Fireball spam.

There is a reason people use dagger/dagger, and it’s the application of damage. There’s no 2 second activation time or static field of effects that can easily be avoided in a game where people carry two dodges, vigor, and superior sigil of energy besides their own mobility abilities like shadowstep/etc.

So, neither the scepter or the staff have the sustained pressure or burst (if you seriously think air scepter 2-3+arcane skills is burst I have some choice words for you considering real burst classes like the mesmer and thief and warrior).

That’s pretty much the case for every current ranged weapon in the game except thief shortbow (because their initiative system lets them kite well and trick shot hits hard baseline in between steal+mug burst) and rifle warrior (hits like a truck, and when something gets close just switch to bull’s charge/bolas and frenzy 100b>Whirlwind Attack). Pistol/Pistol burt thief works but it is somewhat lacking in the defensive department against any target that can weather the burst.

Melee is just really strong at the moment outside zerg situations.

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. → “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS → “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

I thought ele had the lowest base hp and were extremely squishy?

Eles can only be tanky due to that one effing build, kill the build and let the QQ stop already.

Phadde.7362:

What do you think makes us worse than any other profession?

Compare D/D to a Warrior with Hammer & Double-mace. That’s full on Controll for the Warrior! (Assuming that neither uses any Utility nor any Traits, which is probably for the benefit of the Warrior)

Warrior: AoE knockback, Stun, Cripple, AoE Stun. Daze, Line knockdown, Stun.

D/D Elementalist: Chill, Aura Chill. Aura Stun, AoE Knockback. AoE Cripple, Immobilize, AoE Stun, AoE Cripple

“. . . your typical mage archetype is considered dangerous only when at mele range…how absurd is that?” It’s a caster, not a Mage. Why is it bad that we get to do some Melee? Frankly, it’s my favorite part.

“. . . the developers come and tell me that the ele class is supposed to have the best control skills in the game” SOME of the best.

“. . . with a staff, where basically you can’t stop an opponent from reaching you in a short time” What? Sorry? I assume that you don’t roll around with a staff in sPvP, so that just leaves us to NPCs. We’ve Burning Retreat, Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Unsteady Ground and Shockwave. If you can’t stop a pack of enemies with all that, you should get pass the newbie-state before complaining on the forums. They’re not going to change the roles of the Staff, scepter, or any other weapon, because there’s no need.

Now..I could go and simply say :" Look…I down r40+ mesmers in tournaments with a staff…I survive zerg assault with a staff….and I down even thieves with a staff"…but what would be the point?

I’m not interested in your elitist jerking attitude as not only you’re completely off target but also you completely miss the point of the thread.
As @Zenith has already explained…you cannot stop anybody for any amount of time which can be compared to the d/d at mele range.

By the way as my intention is to attract the devs attention, I do make sure to test anything before creating any thread, I do test things under every circumstance from WvWvW to tPvP, I tested staff both against low skill players ( sPvP ) and against high skill players ( tPvP and scrimmage), both with power/crit build and defense support builds, different runes, utilities and traits…so pls try not come out like that treating me like your common whiner ty

if you are trying to attract dev you are wrong…
You just should post it in suggestion area….

Said that lets see D/D ele:
+ decent aoe
+ strong mobility
++ strong cond removals
—-LIGHT ARMOR
-attunements (<===they were born as drawback….its not you have 20 skills at hand)
—-locket in melee
-few stun breakers
—long CD
-no elite
—no offensive ability against inanimate objects

D/D has so many downsides that is quite easy to see why it has some pro….
People just seems to be blind to downsides…..

Imho all problems comes to how points are done…..
A single player can keep the point against 2 invaders….that is the problem….
And shoule award them only if no enemies is in the area.

2 players should just get the point so your tank becomes a waste of slots…

In WWW there is no reason to complain at all….any type of terrain is a HUGE drawback for the class…

It works only in open fields and it isn t even so strong due to low damage output.

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

Except that there’s like five people max who abuse the crap out of D/D and do all those things with their characters. When you encounter them a lot, eventually you start recognizing their armour and guild.

So.

Yeah.

You’d think by reading all this OP nonsense that you could just build a D/D ele and smash your face against the keyboard to win.

I still see D/D eles sitting in 1 attunment hitting with auto attack. So some people play better than others. Quite complaining and find a way to beat them.

If I get slaughtered by a Warrior I’m not going to come on here shouting about OP warriors I’m going to find a way to turn the tables.

If you get beaten by every Ele then maybe your not very good.

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

Really? Thiefs can escape at will and Necros arn’t to shabby themselfs. That’s just in my experience. People complain about everything.

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

I assume you mean “burst” when you say “damage”. It doesn’t matter really matter; you win by attrition. You zip in and out, switching between attunements to heal/cc or do damage. You will win, eventually. Especially against a class like Warrior who can’t disengage.

UrielHex.9851:

Really? Thiefs can escape at will and Necros arn’t to shabby themselfs. That’s just in my experience. People complain about everything.

Staff doesn’t have any control abilities? Wut? I kite like a boss with the staff. Fire has a fantastic evade skill to use in addition to your endurance that also burns people, water has chill to reduce movement to a near 0 and also slow down skill use, air has a knockback, stun and swiftness, and earth has cripple and immobilize. Chance are, you will always have a control ability you can use with the staff.

The problem with the staff is that is has nothing in the way of attacking a single target. It’s pretty exclusively an aoe weapon, but don’t tell me it’s lacking in control.

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

If eles didn’t have RTL, I wouldn’t have played one since release.
Really the problem is not RTL, and the build everyone is complaining about it’s a very tanky build with low damage.
The problem is too much healing capability in that spec.

Personally I don’t run that build, which I find extremely boring, but a 0/30/0/20/20 with berserker acc/rings/amu and PVT armor… at least I do very good damage that way and have much more fun.
If you would remove RTL, then D/D spec wouldn’t make any sense and you sould remove stealth or other good escapes.

Oglaf.1074:

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

I assume you mean “burst” when you say “damage”. It doesn’t matter really matter; you win by attrition. You zip in and out, switching between attunements to heal/cc or do damage. You will win, eventually. Especially against a class like Warrior who can’t disengage.

Well take an ele vs a guardian

or ele v theif

or ele v mes

or ele v trap ranger

Every month something new gets added to the OP roster.

First thieves
the warrior
then mes
then guardian
then ele
and now ranger

I bet next month we will have a massive Q Q about engineers and their one shotting grenade spec.

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

I play a staff ele or warrior. But I have to agree here. D/D ele isnt that big of a deal. I mean an ele built to take hits can take hits? Who knew. I laugh when a d/d ele tries to “kill” my war in 1v1.

ETR.8152:

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

I play a staff ele or warrior. But I have to agree here. D/D ele isnt that big of a deal. I mean an ele built to take hits can take hits? Who knew. I laugh when a d/d ele tries to “kill” my war in 1v1.

You laugh because people jumped on the bandwagon of those mythic D/D ele, which are PTV + cleric, a very strong bunker build with low damage.
That is not the only way to build and play a D/D ele.
You will find some old eles playing differently, cause you get bored after a while of just slowly consuming down enemies.

Please more people come complain in our forums about how OP ele are because you got killed by one and then outrunned by another. I play a valk/knight DD ele in a 0/20/10/20/20. What happens when I attack someone is that they “OMFG ELE OP RUN”. Yes it is easy to kill you then. Someone stay fighting with their tanky builds thinking themselves gods cause they rock in a organized group, but fact is your tanky builds hardly scratch when solo. And then we have the glasscannons that unleash their entire instant win combo onto my Shocking Aura and Mist form, leaving them helpless and ready to be bursted.

These people have access to the forums and a keyboard. A fatal mistake done by life there. It is the same people who had their train of qq about 100 blades. And it is the same people that qq´ed over thieves and probably still do.

If and when the DD ele nerf come you will see these people flee of our forums and land onto the ranger forums where the evading trap ranger are gonna get his kitten bleached by new and fresh threads.

Anet also stated that engineer is getting some buffs due to the hits that class have taken the last month. So prepare your forums. Cause these people are coming and they will create threads!

… Run you fools!

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

And the ranger’s swoop, as well as chaining a number of warrior leaps, essentially equal RTL.

Solori.6025:

I bet next month we will have a massive Q Q about engineers and their one shotting grenade spec.

I’m honestly surprised how few complaints there have been about the 100nades build so far.

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

Dog.1472:

Staff doesn’t have any control abilities? Wut? I kite like a boss with the staff. Fire has a fantastic evade skill to use in addition to your endurance that also burns people, water has chill to reduce movement to a near 0 and also slow down skill use, air has a knockback, stun and swiftness, and earth has cripple and immobilize. Chance are, you will always have a control ability you can use with the staff.

The problem with the staff is that is has nothing in the way of attacking a single target. It’s pretty exclusively an aoe weapon, but don’t tell me it’s lacking in control.

The staff lack in control yes!

Gust/shockwave= forcing the player to face the opponent and hoping this one continue to face you..it’s just dumb, what it means is that you will miss the target at 100% if slighty turning to the elft or the right as the skill register your last location and position as starting point.

If you turn at 45 degree away from your target, you will surely miss with both skill and that’s incredibly stupid given skills like illusionary wave where the mesmer doesn’t need to be facing you directly to push you away, the mesmer could be turned at 90 degree away from you and still able to send you flying.

Furthermore illusionary wave it’s not a stupid ground projectile, by when a gust of wind is represented as a dashing energy ball on the ground? And shockwave should be a on target spell..not this slow moving ground projectile

If only every week i got $10 per post complaining about the ele being under or overpowered, i could retire today

Razor.6392:

I thought ele had the lowest base hp and were extremely squishy?

Eles can only be tanky due to that one effing build, kill the build and let the QQ stop already.

Ele melee is a real match for me in this game.

If they kill it I will leave this game and probably the genre, because I’m tired of gaming houses telling me I can’t play how I want.

Razor.6392:

I thought ele had the lowest base hp and were extremely squishy?

Eles can only be tanky due to that one effing build, kill the build and let the QQ stop already.

People will QQ about another spec of another class. That’s just how it goes apparently.

Cogadh.1845:

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

Or a sign that the other options are so effin bad.

Nerf d/d bunker, buff the rest. Cool, eh? Everybody happy!

Cogadh.1845:

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

Or everything else is just bad…seriously, daggers are only useful because they are the only ele weapon capable of doing serious damage without the opponent standing like a complete goof for 3 seconds. The only other options the ele has are conjures which take up skill slots (and only ice bow and greatsword are effective here).

makku.2508:

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

^ this
i ran a bunker in WvW… didnt die but couldnt kill anyone before reinforcements came
i currently run 0/20/0/30/20 (wvw/pve) with a lot less defensive (/more offensive – knights/zerkers with soldier daggers -when i switch to my rampager staff i become a lot more squishy) stats and die a lot easier; but kill people alot easier (still not as easy as some other classes; but the versatility makes up for it)

International.7980:

Cogadh.1845:

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

Or everything else is just bad…seriously, daggers are only useful because they are the only ele weapon capable of doing serious damage without the opponent standing like a complete goof for 3 seconds. The only other options the ele has are conjures which take up skill slots (and only ice bow and greatsword are effective here).

I believe for that reason is why Anet are so careful with the DnD ele.

Jeliel.8372:

ETR.8152:

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

I play a staff ele or warrior. But I have to agree here. D/D ele isnt that big of a deal. I mean an ele built to take hits can take hits? Who knew. I laugh when a d/d ele tries to “kill” my war in 1v1.

You laugh because people jumped on the bandwagon of those mythic D/D ele, which are PTV + cleric, a very strong bunker build with low damage.
That is not the only way to build and play a D/D ele.
You will find some old eles playing differently, cause you get bored after a while of just slowly consuming down enemies.

yeah i play PPT (knight) D/D sometimes with 10/10/0/30/20 cantrip build.

my damage output is quite low the same -.-
i struggle to kill any non glass cannon.

We just have few bursts that are not even comparable to any melee or mid range professions, while having lot of disadvantages.

only thing that is OP is 1500 range RTL…should be 1200.

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

What? No. I am not the best ele player, but I frequently get my kitten handed to me on my fairly standard D/D Ele in WvW. Last night a thief kept stealthing and hitting me hard, and a guardian kept whooping my kitten

For PvE, my guardian can “tank” a lot better and deal the same or more damage at melee range in addidtion to spamming boons for all allies.

And there is a particular Engineer build I also see that tends to whoop D/D Eles hard and can live through most things.

D/D is all about mobility. I know that is a strange concept for some, but it is actually very good thing that the game does not revolve around standing still and whacking things. So please, do not confuse mobility with being overpowered at melee range.

LordByron.8369:

Jeliel.8372:

ETR.8152:

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

I play a staff ele or warrior. But I have to agree here. D/D ele isnt that big of a deal. I mean an ele built to take hits can take hits? Who knew. I laugh when a d/d ele tries to “kill” my war in 1v1.

You laugh because people jumped on the bandwagon of those mythic D/D ele, which are PTV + cleric, a very strong bunker build with low damage.
That is not the only way to build and play a D/D ele.
You will find some old eles playing differently, cause you get bored after a while of just slowly consuming down enemies.

yeah i play PPT (knight) D/D sometimes with 10/10/0/30/20 cantrip build.

my damage output is quite low the same -.-
i struggle to kill any non glass cannon.

We just have few bursts that are not even comparable to any melee or mid range professions, while having lot of disadvantages.

only thing that is OP is 1500 range RTL…should be 1200.

Yeah, this. People complain that D/D ele is good and OP because it is actually a well thought out build, while they are not using a well tohught out build.

Ofc, D/D is actually good, but many other classes are equally good, but in different ways. Like my guardian, that i spent a long time perfecting and learning, great build there as well, but in different ways.

I always wanted to play a melee kinda mage, d/d , d/f is just too much fun :p

makku.2508:

Oglaf.1074:

D/D has it all

Damage, control, tank, healing, and tons of escape/engage abilities.

And if you get downed, by some miracle, you just Vapour Form back to your own zerg or into a keep. kittenol.

It reminds me of Bright Wizards in WAR; another game where casters are (or were, I guess) totally overpowered in melee.

You’re either ignorant or have serious l2p issues.

For some reason people in this game assume each and every D/D ele they run across uses the very same build they stigmatized as “D/D bunker”. Problem is, that’s not reality.

People run into a 0/10/0/30/30, full PVT + clerics D/D Ele. That guy can take alot of punishment (his damage output is pathetic tho), and escapes 5 people chasing him. -> “OMG D/D SO TANKY!”

Then people run into a D/D that uses 0/20/0/20/30 or w/e, lots of knights/valkyries, maybe even some zerker in there. That guy delivers quite some burst and DPS -> “OMG D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”.

And then they come to the following conclusion: “OMG D/D SO TANKY & D/D SO MUCH DAMAGE!”. This is nonsense tho, because basically, these have been 2 different builds.

this is the same problem thieves suffer from!

Anyone who thinks a D/D ele is OP has clearly never played one. Of course they have their perks, like condition removal and evasiveness, but just because you can’t conveniently lock them down and DOT them doesn’t make them OP.

The PVT build has absolutely dismal DPS, and their survivability comes purely from their equipment – which is LIGHT armor in case you need reminding – not from the class/traits. I skype with a friend who plays a PPV Warrior, and we’re always comparing damage, and I’m lucky to do half the DPS as him.

With the attunement swapping, there are a lot of skills to choose from, each with their own particular use, but the most useful of the skills are coupled with far-too-long cooldown times, further decreasing their long-term DPS in a battle, and that’s not even considering the fact they don’t do enough damage as-is.

The traits in the cookie cutter builds are mainly focused around boons, healing, and attunement recharge rate. And for whatever reason, the healing is STILL terrible. I don’t see how any of those can be considered over powered. And don’t forget the base these things are built upon are set so low that bringing them up a little doesn’t even meet par.

All that said, I play a D/D Ele not because it’s OP (it’s not) or because it’s tanky (it’s not). I play it because it is easily the most entertaining of all the builds. The level of attention and involvement it demands in a fight is unparalleled, and all other classes are just plain boring to me as a result. I’ve gotten quite used to the fast-paced combat of a D/D Ele, and each fight is superbly satisfying knowing it took that much more to emerge victorious than your standard DPS builds.

Zenith.7301:

These staff escape skills have slow activation times allowing for plenty of reaction time to the opponent or are slow projectiles…..

Meanwhile…. a Warrior kneels down for 3 seconds to channel a single attack!
Meanwhile…. a Warrior does a cute spin on the spot then charges in the wrong direction because you went left then right.

Cogadh.1845:

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

maybe

in our case its a sign no other build is any good

a good D/D wins 10/10 times over a good staff or any other weapon ele type

it isnt used because its op (whether it is or is not i wont argue here) its because nothing else is as good.

your theory is right in general but not for eles. D/D is the only truly viable build. thats why its the most common build. nothing else is good

Fellnine.6905:

Cogadh.1845:

the vast majority of eles i come across are D/D. Sometimes see staff, hardly ever scepter focus. They need to make more builds interesting/viable, and yes, they need to address D/D. When nearly every player uses it, its a good sign it just might be too good.

maybe

in our case its a sign no other build is any good

a good D/D wins 10/10 times over a good staff or any other weapon ele type

it isnt used because its op (whether it is or is not i wont argue here) its because nothing else is as good.

your theory is right in general but not for eles. D/D is the only truly viable build. thats why its the most common build. nothing else is good

Just maybe because staff is extremeley bad after tons of nerfs since release?

And brace yourself, people of www started complaining about staff aoes and scepter dragon s tooth.

._.

Ele is OP clearly the only people defending the Ele’s are the Ele players themselves.

Lets see why:
In a Fight
- DPS’s with air and fire, can last for ages due to tons of condition removal, healing on weapon skills, and OP high armor
- Someone is downed, they go in mistform and do their finishing move, which makes the downed person doomed and unable to hit the Ele.
- If the fight goes bad, they mistform and run a fair distance, heal up with weapon skills, go to air and use healing skill + gain swiftness, and take off down the road with RTL and just reset the fight.

Overpowered, they just wear you down unable to be killed.
Need a massive healing/armor nerf.

Vanthian.9267:

Zenith.7301:

These staff escape skills have slow activation times allowing for plenty of reaction time to the opponent or are slow projectiles…..

Meanwhile…. a Warrior kneels down for 3 seconds to channel a single attack!
Meanwhile…. a Warrior does a cute spin on the spot then charges in the wrong direction because you went left then right.

LOL? Killshot is 1,75 seconds casttime, not 3 seconds. Still quite some time, but it hits squishys for 10k+ damage. Combine Frenzy + Killshot + Volley to get squishys explode within 2 seconds. Done that alot in WvW on my warrior.

You cannot compare warrior and ele skills. Its totally different mechanics. Both have pros and cons.

If you want to compare something you should go for Killshot vs. Churning Earth.

Henrik.7560:

and OP high armor

ROFL? My ele is at 2500 armor whereas my warrior is at 2600. Ele is full toughness equip on every exotic piece. My warrior is full knights armor + berserker trinkets.

At the end my warrior has way more crit chance, massive crit damage, more power, way more hitpoints and still more armor than my ele.

Henrik.7560:

…..O_____o

i think you could really get more help asking for explainations rather than nerfs in every profession board.

are you really complaining about mistform?

With your shatter mesmer?
Did u ever tried pressing 2 while downed

>_<

I think you will find many players that will explain how things works here….
Sicerely A shatter mesmer player like you…

P.S. issue is shatter mesmer suffers D/D ele and thief (that is why you got to both board complaining) but if you try other builds things change for the opposite.
Rock/paper/scissors
GC is supposed to suffer against bunkers but many players refuse to accept this.

Also as i said many times…..don t ask for nerfs if there is no CLEAR reason….because when they will finish with ele they will come for mesmers….then for guardian/eng/ranger/necro etc etc…
Warriors and thieves seems somehow safe from the “nerf into oblivion hammer” dunno why _

Ele is actually the class that suffered it more than any other with the strongest nerfs this game have ever seen (staff).

P.P.S: armor nerf O__o lol i read it just now…..ele will be the first class with UBERlight armor…..because light is not enough

Henrik.7560:

Ele is OP clearly the only people defending the Ele’s are the Ele players themselves.

Lets see why:
In a Fight
- DPS’s with air and fire, can last for ages due to tons of condition removal, healing on weapon skills, and OP high armor
- Someone is downed, they go in mistform and do their finishing move, which makes the downed person doomed and unable to hit the Ele.
- If the fight goes bad, they mistform and run a fair distance, heal up with weapon skills, go to air and use healing skill + gain swiftness, and take off down the road with RTL and just reset the fight.

Overpowered, they just wear you down unable to be killed.
Need a massive healing/armor nerf.

This coming from someone who thinks all the other classes are op.

I’ll use your words against you, as you told someone who thought mesmers were op: Maybe you just suck epically.

There are only 2 things i would change about D/D ele:

- shorten Fire Field + Blast finisher duration (20 sec in my opinion is much too long and allows a full bunker build to also deal respectable amounts of damage. I’ve seen D/D eles been able to get to 25 might stacks on their own)

- shorten RTL range or let it be affected by cripple/chilled like every other movement (not teleport) skill in the game. Or increase the CD, whatever. I feel like 15 secs is too low for an nearly unstoppable (not every class can spam immobilize) 1200 range.

sincerely:
Fire field it stationary, if someone stays in the circle for 20 seconds >.> you still do risible damage.

Its a tool that PvE D/D ele needs desperately…its already not that good in PvE but at least with the stupid AI you can do SOME damage (really few) with a precision build…

Remove it and you kill the profession not the build and most of all you kill it in pve.

In PvP requires the ele to stay in the spot for 20 seconds ._. most opponent would love an ele doing that because it would be instakilled.

Also remember that Bunker ele deals almost no damage….
I went www Yesterday and despite as i daid i m not bunker, i had really lot of issues Killing any non Glasscannon build.

I couldn t kill a balanced guardian at 50% hp hit by churning earth figure it any bunker build……

And if you play pve the lack of damage of any non FULL GC build gets even more clear.

And moreover notice how no experienced player complains about ele damage….For that i said that if castle walls were playable they would be the most OP class -.-

Its month than i read complaints about D/D and all they start with:
“i met an ele i couldn t kill it i had to go away to heal myself and when i got back he was fully healed :O”

Notice how fun it is……you can flee and heal with your glasscannon but if your opponent does the same with a bunker its OP….

Henrik.7560:

Ele is OP clearly the only people defending the Ele’s are the Ele players themselves.

Lets see why:
In a Fight
- DPS’s with air and fire, can last for ages due to tons of condition removal, healing on weapon skills, and OP high armor
- Someone is downed, they go in mistform and do their finishing move, which makes the downed person doomed and unable to hit the Ele.
- If the fight goes bad, they mistform and run a fair distance, heal up with weapon skills, go to air and use healing skill + gain swiftness, and take off down the road with RTL and just reset the fight.

Overpowered, they just wear you down unable to be killed.
Need a massive healing/armor nerf.

Not sure if troll, but I’ll try to keep my sanity and reply in a polite way.

1. DPS? Other classes can do it better. It’s not an issue nor what’s being QQ’d about on eles.
2. LOTS of classes can do this: Engineer, thieves to some extent (stealth or blindness), warriors and guardians with stability, rangers…
3. So ele’s have escape capabilities. Better nerf them I guess? Thieves and mesmers can escape as much without being so predictable, and stealth still has no counter (unlike RtL), but I guess that’s fine.

It’s the kitten bunker build what’s making everyone QQ. They are really hard to kill so in your frustration you jump to conclusions and blame the entire kit instead of focusing on the root of the problem.

“Oh an ele tanked my entire team, cured all conditions, healed a boatload AND escaped with ride the lightning… NERF RTL PLZ, NERF HEAL, NERF THEIR AOE, NERF THEIR CC, NERF THEIR DAMAGE… NERF EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM!!!!11”

^ That’s how stupid you sound

Iavra.8510:

shorten Fire Field + Blast finisher duration (20 sec in my opinion is much too long and allows a full bunker build to also deal respectable amounts of damage. I’ve seen D/D eles been able to get to 25 might stacks on their own)

fire field lasts 6 sec and has 2 sources of damage: burst damage is applied on skill activation. burning is applied when you cross the borders of the radius.

I dont see any problem with the current duration. 6 secs is not that long. If you want to leave the ring earlier, you have to eat that burning.

And blast finishers are the same for any profession in the entire game. Why should might stacking work differently for eles? Sounds not fair.

Besides: 25 might stacks self buffed is bogus for ele. Its not possible. Earth blast finishers are on 30/45s cooldown. Earth dodge roll blast finisher is possible at most every 15s. Sigil of Battle is on 9s cooldown. Fire Attunement gives 1 might at most every 9s. Did I forgot anything?

teg.1340:

Iavra.8510:

shorten Fire Field + Blast finisher duration (20 sec in my opinion is much too long and allows a full bunker build to also deal respectable amounts of damage. I’ve seen D/D eles been able to get to 25 might stacks on their own)

fire field lasts 6 sec and has 2 sources of damage: burst damage is applied on skill activation. burning is applied when you cross the borders of the radius.

I dont see any problem with the current duration. 6 secs is not that long. If you want to leave the ring earlier, you have to eat that burning.

And blast finishers are the same for any profession in the entire game. Why should might stacking work differently for eles? Sounds not fair.

Besides: 25 might stacks self buffed is bogus for ele. Its not possible. Earth blast finishers are on 30/45s cooldown. Earth dodge roll blast finisher is possible at most every 15s. Sigil of Battle is on 9s cooldown. Fire Attunement gives 1 might at most every 9s. Did I forgot anything?

He was talking about the might stacks that are applied from blasting a fire field. I thoroughly disagree with that.

i didn t see the 25 might stack things…
But that proves a thing i read many times.

People meets a bunker ele and thinks “its hard to kill” then meets a GC ele and thinks “it does also lot of damage O_o OP NERF!!!!!!!”

those are 2 different builds.

In order to stack lot of might you need:
1) sigils (every class has them on ele are more powerful for sure….).
2) cantrip build
3) combo

Note that the combos itself gives you 6 might stacks that becomes 11 with evasive arcana + boons on attunement (that have reduced duration).
14 with arcane blast
20 with cantrip FIRE <==== traits

Notice that getting past 6 in pvp with a bunker spec (without sigil) means your opponent is afk ._. or just sitting there for 9 seconds

If you do the same against any other class you just die without having to worry about how many stacks other class has.

A guardian get 9 stacks just pressing a button, a mesmer get 6-9 easily (shatter + gs 2 for ex).