Guild Wars 2

@Razerei I main a mesmer and I’ve only been playing Ele for like 2 weeks. I Have played the majority of the classes and know which of these are hardest to play for me etc… etc..
Play style plays a large role in the difficulty of a class. so to just Sum up Ele as being a much harder class to play i think you are extremely mistaken. In many ways I find Mesmer a harder class to play than ele when not running the Illusion does all your damage build. And same for warrior with a greatsword. You are a 1 trick pony and you have to ensure your trick lands. This is all opinions formulated from playing against some of the best players in the game. You can throw out the Spvp shet I base none of my experiences from that. And I take no credit for stomping a 90% win ratio against garbage pug teams in tourneys.

I’ve restrained myself from saying this until now
I find ele a extremely easy class to play, You spam skills and have a good amount of success without any specific rotation or order, you just dominate while spaming like you would button mash in teken

That perspective is against the average joe. You can mash buttons on an ele with a good build and destroy. With the signet heal the faster you mash the more healing you get, that to me = a win – win scenario.

@Boozer, What you say is very true in many ways. What you may fail to realize is that there is very little money in Spvp while there is a potential to make loads of money in competitive tourney play for Anet. So balancing the game towards a more competitive nature would benefit them more as a company and lets face it, money makes the world go round. Those with money could give a shet about human emotion.
Also the builds that require “High risk” end up with little reward in any pvp scenario. High risk for high reward builds dont work in PvP. People think better than AI. Stick to high risk high reward builds for PvE and try to find a more balanced consistant build that can do both damage and Defense. Otherwise your doing it wrong. And if your doing it for fun than by all means do it your way and have fun but dont QQ when your not winning.

I can recommend watching these videos and actually comprehending what’s happening, especially razarei’s video on page 1. We’re seeing the sheer terribleness of class in action in a hands of a fairly clueless player. Other teams have elementalists in high numbers, and not only does our “hero” do stuff like dagger air four and dodge into staff air five (failure at basics) REPEATEDLY in the SAME MATCH, we also se how enemy elementalists melt to a bunker guardian and d/d elementalist in about 7 second from full to zero. Because class is just trash at the moment, even a bunker guardian assisted by another trash can destroy it in short order. If that attacker was a mesmer, both guardian and elementalist would be lying dead and point would be his.

Don’t read the commentary, watch the video and draw the conclusions. The team with most elementalists loses, even though they play better (such as not get themselves repeatedly stunned for no reason other then being bad), simply because the class is too weak at the moment.

But in a hindsight, we now know what it takes to win as an elementalist in a tourney. An opponent willing to field more elementalists then you.

Kyros.5682:

@Razerei I main a mesmer and I’ve only been playing Ele for like 2 weeks. I Have played the majority of the classes and know which of these are hardest to play for me etc… etc..
Play style plays a large role in the difficulty of a class. so to just Sum up Ele as being a much harder class to play i think you are extremely mistaken. In many ways I find Mesmer a harder class to play than ele when not running the Illusion does all your damage build. And same for warrior with a greatsword. You are a 1 trick pony and you have to ensure your trick lands. This is all opinions formulated from playing against some of the best players in the game. You can throw out the Spvp shet I base none of my experiences from that. And I take no credit for stomping a 90% win ratio against garbage pug teams in tourneys.

I’ve restrained myself from saying this until now
I find ele a extremely easy class to play, You spam skills and have a good amount of success without any specific rotation or order, you just dominate while spaming like you would button mash in teken

That perspective is against the average joe. You can mash buttons on an ele with a good build and destroy. With the signet heal the faster you mash the more healing you get, that to me = a win – win scenario.

@Boozer, What you say is very true in many ways. What you may fail to realize is that there is very little money in Spvp while there is a potential to make loads of money in competitive tourney play for Anet. So balancing the game towards a more competitive nature would benefit them more as a company and lets face it, money makes the world go round. Those with money could give a shet about human emotion.
Also the builds that require “High risk” end up with little reward in any pvp scenario. High risk for high reward builds dont work in PvP. People think better than AI. Stick to high risk high reward builds for PvE and try to find a more balanced consistant build that can do both damage and Defense. Otherwise your doing it wrong. And if your doing it for fun than by all means do it your way and have fun but dont QQ when your not winning.

I really liked all your responses and rebuttal, until this. You really dialled yourself in poorly there. You have no affirmation of whether your friends are or are not the “best players in the game”, and the generalisation that you can skill spam and beat average joes easily is obviously wrong, or we wouldn’t have half the amount of people complaining about the class.

Also, High Risk = High Reward builds certainly can work in PvP, for the player that is ready to cop it sweet when they don’t.

You’ve been able to help a heap of people hear, so please don’t feed into the trolls and cheapen your opinion with cruddy posts like that mate.

Kyros.5682:

In many ways I find Mesmer a harder class to play than ele….

Did he really just say that? How hard it is to play a mesmer when all you have to do is turn someone into a bird for quite a long time and beat them to death while they can’t do nothing about it. How can you even justify for putting a skill like this into a game where everything is so fast paced. This skill should be revamped immediately like as soon as you take damage, the morph should break…

Kyros, I have to agree that this does shed an interesting light on Elementalist team play but does nothing to solve its other issues. For one, your roamer build uses the common Scepter/Dagger, and your Bunker uses Scepter/Focus. This tells me the same thing that everyone else tells me; Elementalist is useless without a Scepter in hand. I’ve seen other classes use a variety of weapons to very effective means, but when I’m on my thief and engineer, I routinely squash Elementalists who are not using Scepter. While S/D is good and fun, I prefer the staff-style of attacks, which as we all know, is better suited to Support. Support is fun and all, mind you, but in a 1v1 you’re basically just tanking until someone else shows up to help or your opponent gets a lucky burst in to wear you down. The problem with Staff lies in its skills; they’re ALL DoTs with the exception of 2: Ice Spike and Eruption; neither of which are very strong, and they all have a painfully long delivery time. Your basic attack speed in all attunements is the slowest of any class I’ve yet seen except maybe short bow thief, and while fireball and chain lightning are useful, they simply fire too slow to make up for the slow casting time of other skills. Having to stand still to cast Meteor Shower and Healing Rain is painful but bearable; Healing Rain shouldn’t have a stationary cast as its not THAT powerful except in a support role where you’re cleansing conditions or blast finishering for AoE healing. This could be fixed or helped by maybe adding a couple trigger skills… maybe have Lava Font be the same ground AoE, but give it a trigger ability to Erupt causing instant damage and a small burn (similar to Dragon’s Tooth) but prematurely end the Ground DoT. The other issue is long delays between switching attunements; for all intents and purposes, the attunements function much like the Engineer’s Kits; with the addition of a localized AoE on attunement change if specced for it. Engineer kits however have no cooldown, and may be switched into and out of at will. This provides a ton of options for self defense; knockdowns from Rifle, immobilize, then knockdown again from flamethrower. This could be fixed by making that Lava Font Eruption also have a small knockback or knockdown?

What really needs to be done is remove the long cooldown from switching attunements, and give staff skills some smaller cooldowns. Gust is one of our only skills that can be used to push a foe away to flee effectively, and it misses with more frequency than a blind man at a shooting range, and has a 30 second cooldown unspecced. The engineer rifle knockback, however, has a… 8-10 second cooldown, I can’t remember. If the attunement-activation traits are an issue, put a cooldown on THOSE rather than the attunement itself; putting the cooldown on the attunement just locks us out of skills that may save our lives. I can’t count the number of times I’ve swapped from lightning to fire to gain Might and drop Meteor Shower on a point and a thief jumps out and backstabs me. My only defense is to use Gust to push him away to get a second’s reprieve, and lo and behold my lightning attunement is on cooldown. Utilities help, but most of the ele utilities just buy you a a few seconds longer before you die.

Or, they could just give us weapon swapping. <3

@luckyo Im sorry you feel that way. I look forward to playing you and your pug or your team in tourny and we can see who is who.

@Windowlicker Don’t think he is trolling but your right I’m just getting frustrated with my inability to defend myself in the forums like I can in game. Forums need a buff

I was doing sPvP for the first time last night, as an elementalist, and I loved every second of it! I was invincible in 1v1, even in water fights (OK, I got bested once in the water, but he had sharks on his side), and I only found a challenge against 2 or 3 enemies at once, and even then I gave them a good fight!

I didn’t feel as squishy as I do in PvE, I could actually stand there for those few seconds to “Finish” someone off without dying, while 2 other players are firing at me. Ride the lightning + Updraft gave me an immediate advantage at the start of every fight. It can only get better once I actually retrain my trait points into what I want them to be.

I honestly don’t see the complaints against Elementalists in PvP as justified.

The amount of negativity in this thread is absolutely ABSURD.

It’s almost like people are angry because someone has success with a class that they convinced themselves were terrible!

Elementalist has an extremely high skill cap, there’s no getting around it. Many successful setups currently for other classes are being used because they are incredibly reliable, easy to use, and powerful at the same time. Elementalist doesn’t have any such build. You will always have to manage your attunements well, and know the entirety of your class to perform on par.

Sorry kiddos, but get over yourselves. It’s okay to be new or poor at a class. You will improve. I was convinced that eles were incredibly useless at first as well. After a week of practicing and tweaking my setup, I’ve been having an incredible amount of success, not even using the build Kyros is using.

Could elementalists use a few improvements to cast time on some spells, and potentially some trait smoothing out? Probably. They are powerful though, and a hell of a lot of fun.

Spoiler: There’s a reason why 90% of the ‘pro teams’ you see on youtube videos almost always run an elementalist: they want to win.

Tyler Ferguson.4965:

The amount of negativity in this thread is absolutely ABSURD.

It’s almost like people are angry because someone has success with a class that they convinced themselves were terrible!

Elementalist has an extremely high skill cap, there’s no getting around it. Many successful setups currently for other classes are being used because they are incredibly reliable, easy to use, and powerful at the same time. Elementalist doesn’t have any such build. You will always have to manage your attunements well, and know the entirety of your class to perform on par.

Sorry kiddos, but get over yourselves. It’s okay to be new or poor at a class. You will improve. I was convinced that eles were incredibly useless at first as well. After a week of practicing and tweaking my setup, I’ve been having an incredible amount of success, not even using the build Kyros is using.

Could elementalists use a few improvements to cast time on some spells, and potentially some trait smoothing out? Probably. They are powerful though, and a hell of a lot of fun.

Spoiler: There’s a reason why 90% of the ‘pro teams’ you see on youtube videos almost always run an elementalist: they want to win.

You should probably read some other posts. Lol at 90% of pro teams using elementalists. Really, was funny. I personally almost never die, and can take out teams of 3 by myself on a regularly basis in TPvP.

Does it take a while? Yes
Is it possible? Yes
Do I die often from it? No

This is because I play smart. I come from a gaming background, the way this game is designed makes it easier to apply tactical awareness.

If I’m capping a spot, and I see a ranger, guardian, and a mesmer come my way what am I going to do? Easy, there is no way I’m going to kill them all because the guardian will tank my damage, and the mesmer will get some serious damage on me. So what do I do? I RTL > Updraft. I heal. I knockdown.

I lay down my fire aoes such as dragons tooth, all in the cap point. I make sure to stay out of line of sight, luring them to melee range for easy AOE’S. Why? Pressure and stalling.

Two things either happen.

One = They waste all their time attacking a target that plays smart and doesn’t die, while my team caps the other bases.

OR

Two = They lose a teammate(s) and I die in the process, except their loss is worth a hell of a lot more because they had more people.

I’d even go as far to say I stomp really easy with my elementalist. But guess what? When I roll my mesmer, or my guardian, or my engineer, not only is my survivability better, but my damage is also.

As a guardian, I can literally move to a cap spot > Sit > Press skills and utility, and tank a whole team. 5 for TPvP. I can also take about 5-6 in SPvP.

So, I can defend better on my guardian than I can with my elementalists, and my damage output doesn’t even really suffer.

@Kyros you’re a smart guy, but you’re letting your personal success be the reason for argument. However, when you said ele is easier than mesmer because you just spam skills and rotate attunements, I lost a little bit of respect for you. I at no point ever said elementalists were harder to play. That is the general consensus the community has. All I’ve stated, and will continue to state, is that elementalists are weak when compared to other classes of the same skill.

You for example, your elementalist or your mesmer?

Your mesmer of course. Heck, pick up a guardian. Have even better success rate with that. You see what I’m getting at here?

Razarei.2809:

Again, you’re failing to read what I wrote. Tired of having to repeat myself because people don’t want to look at the bigger picture.

If you with all your knowledge of an elementalist invested just as much time in a guardian, you would faceroll with less effort. That is the point almost everyone is trying to make. You say I’m ignoring you, but it is you who is ignoring me. You, and many others think everyone who disagrees with you is simply bad at the game and needs to get better.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m really good at playing my class, and I’d be happy to prove it to anyone who asks, or seems to think they’re god. Unfortunately, none of there ele-heroes have actually accepted instead of resorting to excuses. I’m pretty sure the majority of people complaining here are at least competent with their build.

I honestly don’t give two kitten if elementalists don’t get changed, because it won’t affect me at all. I will still faceroll with elementalist, because that’s what I do. There are people like me that take classes no matter what “tier” and exploit the kitten out of it to show they can do great things.

Does it make it OP? No it does not, because every class can do it, and better.

No, I don’t mean pressing more buttons than another class.

@Pinkerton – That’s rich coming from someone who dodges all my PvP invites. That’s all I’m seeing on these forums. Self proclaimed super awesome elementalists who refuse to back their claims.

Again, you asked me once…at 2 in the morning…when I was going to bed…

And by the way, so now you’re suddenly invincible and can ‘faceroll’ with your ele?
What happened to “I know my profession inside out, there’s nothing more I can learn from my class” and “I get roflstomped by any who even remotely knows how to play their class”?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Overpowered/first#post68163

Get your story straight. Either Ele is fine and doesn’t need to be changed because it’s possible to do fine with it as is or it needs to be changed because Jesus himself (aka Razarei) can’t kill a single thing as an elementalist. You can’t have it both ways and swap whenever it’s convenient for your argument.
And come on…climb down off your high horse. I can’t believe you have the gall to call ME and elitist.

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Pinkerton.5643:

Razarei.2809:

Again, you’re failing to read what I wrote. Tired of having to repeat myself because people don’t want to look at the bigger picture.

If you with all your knowledge of an elementalist invested just as much time in a guardian, you would faceroll with less effort. That is the point almost everyone is trying to make. You say I’m ignoring you, but it is you who is ignoring me. You, and many others think everyone who disagrees with you is simply bad at the game and needs to get better.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m really good at playing my class, and I’d be happy to prove it to anyone who asks, or seems to think they’re god. Unfortunately, none of there ele-heroes have actually accepted instead of resorting to excuses. I’m pretty sure the majority of people complaining here are at least competent with their build.

I honestly don’t give two kitten if elementalists don’t get changed, because it won’t affect me at all. I will still faceroll with elementalist, because that’s what I do. There are people like me that take classes no matter what “tier” and exploit the kitten out of it to show they can do great things.

Does it make it OP? No it does not, because every class can do it, and better.

No, I don’t mean pressing more buttons than another class.

@Pinkerton – That’s rich coming from someone who dodges all my PvP invites. That’s all I’m seeing on these forums. Self proclaimed super awesome elementalists who refuse to back their claims.

Again, you asked me once…at 2 in the morning…when I was going to bed…

And by the way, so now you’re suddenly invincible and can ‘faceroll’ with your ele?
What happened to “I know my profession inside out, there’s nothing more I can learn from my class” and “I get roflstomped by any who even remotely knows how to play their class”?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Overpowered/first#post68163

Get your story straight. Either Ele is fine and doesn’t need to be changed because it’s possible to do fine with it as is or it needs to be changed because Jesus himself (aka Razarei) can’t kill a single thing as an elementalist. You can’t have it both ways and swap whenever it’s convenient for your argument.
And come on…climb down off your high horse. I can’t believe you have the gall to call ME and elitist.

Yeah, because it’s completely impossible to faceroll people and get facerolled at the same time right? That’s exactly my point. Taking those points out of context are of course going to seem absurd. One is my stance when talking about my personal abilities, one is taking about the elementalist class on a whole. Good job stating things I’ve never stated by the way.

And no, I’ve asked you three times.

Let me simplify things for you, again. If you take the BEST mesmer and the BEST ele, the mesmer will ALWAYS win without a doubt.

If you take the BEST guardian and the BEST elementalist, the guardian will always win, without a doubt.

If you take the BEST <insert class here> and the BEST <insert class here> the <insert class here> will always win, without a doubt? Why? Because the elementalist is lacking. Player skill is irrelevant. Everyone knows this. As I’ve said many times, just because I can easily dominate on my elementalist, I have a much EASIER time doing so on my guardian or warrior, or mesmer. You cannot compare people of different skill while talking about class balance. It doesn’t work.

Dude, those are not out of context at all. You were talking about your abilities in EVER one of those quotes. that’s why you used the pronoun “I” in every one of them without ever indicating any sort of hypothetical situation in which “I” would refer to anyone but Razarei.

And I’m surprised by that claim…on account of the fact that I’ve only ever seen a single whisper from you…maybe 2 or 3 total on that one occasion.

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

@Pinkerton you used a tekken analogy earlier so I’ll try it this way.

Let’s say I’m Yoshi (Tekken 6) and I’m fighting a lars, or a law.

Who has the most chance to win?

The answer: You don’t know. This is because we both have different skill levels. I might beat the crap out of him with yoshi vs his law, even though law is definitely considerably better than yoshi without question.

Does this mean yoshi is fine? Yes it does. Why? Because it’s a console game. It will never be updated, and the community manage it. How many Yoshis do you see do really well at tournaments?

We have an MMO here with thousands of players choosing different classes. EVERYONE knows elementalists are the weakest out of the classes. They are viable yes, but they’re not up to scratch.

Putting challenge, effort, skill aside, and analysing the CLASS, what are you left with? A weaker one.

Thanks for the tank spec. It is really powerfull both 1v1 and group.

To those who claim that it is purely a support spec: lolwut?

There’s a lot of dmg in this spec as well if you’re able to properly attunment manage. This spec has changed my pvp experience by a whole lot.

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

Razarei.2809:

Let me simplify things for you, again. If you take the BEST mesmer and the BEST ele, the mesmer will ALWAYS win without a doubt.

If you take the BEST guardian and the BEST elementalist, the guardian will always win, without a doubt.

If you take the BEST <insert class here> and the BEST <insert class here> the <insert class here> will always win, without a doubt? Why? Because the elementalist is lacking. Player skill is irrelevant. Everyone knows this. As I’ve said many times, just because I can easily dominate on my elementalist, I have a much EASIER time doing so on my guardian or warrior, or mesmer. You cannot compare people of different skill while talking about class balance. It doesn’t work.

Sure Mesmer will win. Cause Mesmer will win against every kitten other class, because… thats what a Mesmer does.
Fighing a Guardian… won’t resolve. No one will be able to kill his enemy.
But when coming to “random class”… you win vs warrior. You can win vs ranger, you can win vs nekro, you can win vs thief. Guess you won’t win vs an Engineer.
So lets see… winning vs 50% of the classes? Loosing against the other 50%? Sounds pretty much rock-paper-scissory.

But you’re right about one thing… its easier dominating with other classes.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

You can survive for a short time and then you die. As Guardian… as Mesmer you just die.

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

You can do this as an engineer.
You can even do this as an elementalist.
But you CAN do this as a guardian vs competent players. It will take a very long time to bring it down, and burst damage builds are just suicide VS it due to retaliation.

When I say 3vs1, I don’t mean taking 3 people on at a time, killing them all, and running away. I mean you can hold your own against, them, maybe kill one or two, or even them all, or just stall them for an incredibly long amount of time.

As a guardian, I don’t even need to worry about high damage builds. The more the better.

I said decent players.

A Ele can win vs. a thief? Maybe a tank specced Ele, and assuming the thief is stupid enough to hang around when low on HP instead of retreating like a smart thief would do… and forcing a retreat is not a victory, a kill is. And how does an Ele beat a ranger? Constant knockdown from pets and auto attack for the loss. And Ele beats warrior…. HAH… maybe a hundred blades warrior, sure, but there are TONS of great Warrior specs and only 1-2 "decent’ Ele specs. Its just that simple; Ele needs fixed. Sorry guys. Argue about it till you’re blue in the face but having played 5 classes, and trying SOkittenHARD to make the Ele work (as its my favorite class… come on, who doesn’t love slinging lightning bolts??) the numbers just don’t add up.

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

You can do this as an engineer.
You can even do this as an elementalist.
But you CAN do this as a guardian vs competent players. It will take a very long time to bring it down, and burst damage builds are just suicide VS it due to retaliation.

When I say 3vs1, I don’t mean taking 3 people on at a time, killing them all, and running away. I mean you can hold your own against, them, maybe kill one or two, or even them all, or just stall them for an incredibly long amount of time.

As a guardian, I don’t even need to worry about high damage builds. The more the better.

It is extremly unlikely that you find 3 monkeys that you could kill 3v1, you make it out to be an everyday scenario it simply isn’t.

Westley.4716:

A Ele can win vs. a thief? Maybe a tank specced Ele, and assuming the thief is stupid enough to hang around when low on HP instead of retreating like a smart thief would do… and forcing a retreat is not a victory, a kill is. And how does an Ele beat a ranger? Constant knockdown from pets and auto attack for the loss. And Ele beats warrior…. HAH… maybe a hundred blades warrior, sure, but there are TONS of great Warrior specs and only 1-2 "decent’ Ele specs. Its just that simple; Ele needs fixed. Sorry guys. Argue about it till you’re blue in the face but having played 5 classes, and trying SOkittenHARD to make the Ele work (as its my favorite class… come on, who doesn’t love slinging lightning bolts??) the numbers just don’t add up.

Player skill. Everyone keeps ignoring this.

When we’re reasoning we need to get rid of the player skill concept, or assume we have the same people playing all the classes with the same ability.

When you look at it this way, other classes have superior utilities at their disposal, and better trait synergy.

This is why it’s possible.

Westley.4716:

A Ele can win vs. a thief? Maybe a tank specced Ele, and assuming the thief is stupid enough to hang around when low on HP instead of retreating like a smart thief would do… and forcing a retreat is not a victory, a kill is. And how does an Ele beat a ranger? Constant knockdown from pets and auto attack for the loss. And Ele beats warrior…. HAH… maybe a hundred blades warrior, sure, but there are TONS of great Warrior specs and only 1-2 "decent’ Ele specs. Its just that simple; Ele needs fixed. Sorry guys. Argue about it till you’re blue in the face but having played 5 classes, and trying SOkittenHARD to make the Ele work (as its my favorite class… come on, who doesn’t love slinging lightning bolts??) the numbers just don’t add up.

If I get cought be a theif (burst theif) I pop mist form and use heal immidiatly (assuming he has injured me significantly) by now he has blown CD’s and combo pts. or what ever its called and you should be able to kill him.
It’s not super easy like it may appear in text, but its quite possible with some training.

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

You can do this as an engineer.
You can even do this as an elementalist.
But you CAN do this as a guardian vs competent players. It will take a very long time to bring it down, and burst damage builds are just suicide VS it due to retaliation.

When I say 3vs1, I don’t mean taking 3 people on at a time, killing them all, and running away. I mean you can hold your own against, them, maybe kill one or two, or even them all, or just stall them for an incredibly long amount of time.

As a guardian, I don’t even need to worry about high damage builds. The more the better.

It is extremly unlikely that you find 3 monkeys that you could kill 3v1, you make it out to be an everyday scenario it simply isn’t.

You’re more than welcome to S/TPvP with me. I’ll show you how annoyingly amazing these classes are when strengths are exploited. No matter what happens though, elementalist always comes out at the bottom.

No, I will not post a video. I don’t believe in showing my personal experiences alone and using them to prove a point. You can draw your own conclusions from them.

1. Forcing a retreat is a victory. Not as big as a kill… but since the game is objective based as long as you keep your point you’re fine.

Vs Thief: Shocking Aura.
Vs Ranger: I’ve got 6 ways to remove conditions in my build. Ranger usually plays a condition specc. You see how it works?
Vs Warrior: He’s usually a melee. You’ve got slows and stuff.

Sure you will loose some fights. But you will win some as well. Sounds pretty OK for me.

Razarai

Player skill. Everyone keeps ignoring this.

Though we were discussing about best played x vs best played y?

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

You can do this as an engineer.
You can even do this as an elementalist.
But you CAN do this as a guardian vs competent players. It will take a very long time to bring it down, and burst damage builds are just suicide VS it due to retaliation.

When I say 3vs1, I don’t mean taking 3 people on at a time, killing them all, and running away. I mean you can hold your own against, them, maybe kill one or two, or even them all, or just stall them for an incredibly long amount of time.

As a guardian, I don’t even need to worry about high damage builds. The more the better.

It is extremly unlikely that you find 3 monkeys that you could kill 3v1, you make it out to be an everyday scenario it simply isn’t.

You’re more than welcome to S/TPvP with me. I’ll show you how annoyingly amazing these classes are when strengths are exploited. No matter what happens though, elementalist always comes out at the bottom.

No, I will not post a video. I don’t believe in showing my personal experiences alone and using them to prove a point. You can draw your own conclusions from them.

Ive meet a few players who could keep on going for a long time but I just can’t see 3 decent players vs 1 of the mentioned classes, being unable to kill him, there would simply be too much utility and out going damage to avoid indefinatly.

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Otiz.3259:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

You will never be able to take on 3 decent players with any class… not as elementalist, not as mesmer and not as guardian and not even if Razarai plays them. Don’t know why the ability of killing bad playing enemy’s is relevant to balance.

And both Mesmer and Guardian don’t fullfill the same role for a team as an Elementalist. There are areas where a Mesmer excelles, same about Guardian and same about Elementalist.
The only class thats just better than the Elementalist is Engineer, cause he can do everything an Elementalist does… just better. But the difference isn’t that huge, so the tweaks that Elementalist needs should solve this problem.

Actually, you can. You can do this as a guardian easily. You can do this as a mesmer if you play smart, although highly situational. You can also do this as an engineer.

Tell me where the elementalist excels? Support? Yeah, I guess.

You can’t 3v1 unless the 3 others are mentally challenged, seriously how can you make this argument? Even if they are poorly skilled you will lose 98% of the time.

You can do this as an engineer.
You can even do this as an elementalist.
But you CAN do this as a guardian vs competent players. It will take a very long time to bring it down, and burst damage builds are just suicide VS it due to retaliation.

When I say 3vs1, I don’t mean taking 3 people on at a time, killing them all, and running away. I mean you can hold your own against, them, maybe kill one or two, or even them all, or just stall them for an incredibly long amount of time.

As a guardian, I don’t even need to worry about high damage builds. The more the better.

It is extremly unlikely that you find 3 monkeys that you could kill 3v1, you make it out to be an everyday scenario it simply isn’t.

You’re more than welcome to S/TPvP with me. I’ll show you how annoyingly amazing these classes are when strengths are exploited. No matter what happens though, elementalist always comes out at the bottom.

No, I will not post a video. I don’t believe in showing my personal experiences alone and using them to prove a point. You can draw your own conclusions from them.

Ive meet a few players who could keep on going for a long time but I just can’t see 3 decent players vs 1 of the mentioned classes, being unable to kill him, there would simply be too much utility and out going damage to avoid indefinatly.

You’re failing to see that damage and utility is not as important. It’s the damage and utility of the USER that determines the fight, not the other way around.

As a guardian I can occupy a cap point, pop by bubble with retaliation build, alternating my weapon skills and utility to prevent damage and dish it back out. What’s funny is that I have more success when I purposely spec for vitality instead of toughness, because I get hit like a truck but so do they.

People don’t like sacrifice unfortunately (a necessity in gameplay especially at competitive levels) so this becomes viable.

Anyways, my offer still stands. :p

Ele IS strong against bad players or weak classes (thief, ranger, ele) if you can immune or dodge the incoming burst.

However Ele has by far the highest skill threshhold to play at a decent level and really is not competative at the highest level in spvp.

Using full toughness build you will still get bursted down by a thief in a few seconds if you dont have an immunity/stun break off cd, and they all have very long CD.

-_-

player in video is always in 2v1 or in a team fight at a place where he doesn’t take direct hits.

when this is done, any class will have success.

the only notable thing is the amount of knockdowns in order to revive a teammate.

Last night I geared back up on my elementalist because I felt that playing a guardian (sword/focus/staff) was still a tad to easy for me because I know that unless I feel challenged I will get bored. I was playing dagger/dagger and only level 17 and decided to do my level 11 story mission in which portals open up and a few trash mobs come out (easily burned down) then a veteran. For a couple of minutes I was fine, got it down to 1/4 health, had already popped all my CC skills to pin him down and then was making my escape when WHAM I get hit with a stun, a stun that lasted long enough for him to hit me twice and down me. I am wearing level 14-17 greens, and I am no stranger to dodge and avoidance tactics. Sig of air and an attempted LoS were not enough against this airborn vet. Took me 2 more tries (from checkpoint) to FINALLY get him down. I don’t think of myself as a pro, but I am no novice when it comes to action oriented mechanics, I am hotkeyed up and fine tuned my sensitivities and have great frame rate. But no matter what, as soon as I got through my CC skills I was squished into elemental paste in a matter of seconds. On my guardian I could have stood and poked that vet with a sword with comparable gear, not saying that I should be able to do the same as an ele but putting forth my best effort using a single target focused weapon set should have rendered much better results. Frustrated with my results my friend told me that he would dual me (empty spvp room) on his warrior just to see how it looks speced out, to see if it would be worth it all in the end. Got my twin daggers, set my traits and chose my skills, I was going to spank him, I knew it. Right before the match started (as the timer was counting down) I asked him “Did you set up your traits the way you wanted?” He replied “No, I didn’t even get the weapons I like to use, but lets give it a go”. My friend is just now getting familiar with dodging and has no idea about how mechanics behind combos work, and was using weapons he is not familiar with. lasted about 15 minutes of pinning him down and blasting him with all I had (specced for air and arcane), managing to put enough time between each lucky blow he landed that dropped me down to 65% health each time to heal up before the next. Keep in mind I use all of the disciplines to combo where possible and take advantage of the CC in each to hold him back. In the end I had but scratched him, all my efforts to get him down to 50% health each time were healed away with the push of a button. We went 2 more rounds just to make sure it wasn’t a fluke, and the second time (first round was mainly to size him up) I really REALLY put forth all the skills I had developed as a gamer since I began at an early age of 5, but once again was subdued by my friends skill spamming and lucky hits…

I told him to let me get my guardian (sword, focus, staff) and told him how to get his weapons and spec out the way he wants. I stomped him in 3 minutes flat without getting below 25% health, and I made a point NOT to dodge. He refused to go another round against my guardian because he said it was WAY OP even though I tried to explain that warriors when played well are one of the most powerful in the game at this point, but had a hard time believing me.

I am now playing around with scepter/dagger to try and keep more distance between me and my enemy to hopefully achieve more LoS since blocking kinda sucks as an ele. I am also toying around with conjured weapons, but the future isn’t bright. I hate to think that I am “not good enough” to play as a dagger/dagger elementalist, and definitely don’t want to subject myself to being just support as an ele…

I am not here to scream that eles are bad, I REALLY enjoy the complexity of their skills but something has got to give here… I also have a warrior and mesmer and have no issues at all with ANY of the story missions, and fair realllly well in sPVP. But elementalists I think just need a little more love. I will answer any questions about how I was speced and even what my main rotation focus is, but the reality is that I am no noob and I fail as an ele, I know how to promote synergy between my abilities and maintain a balance of damage mitigation, damage recovery and output, but I just cannot get a winning build/strategy with air/arcane dagger/dagger and I find that a little unreasonable… just my 2 cents.

seriously -_- you are a full premade very well organized and build to support each other team vs random bambies and your doing next to no dmg and your support seems decent at best (compared to having ANY other class there) and this is your argument for the ele not being weak -_-

that is the WORST argument i ever saw…
good worriars, mesm, necro’s can solo 2-3 decent players easily.. having you hang around other very well build organised classes to drag your elekitten through is not a argument for the ele not being stupidly weak..

the dmg and support you saw of is as said decent at best, now compare it to a support guardian or a dps thief/mesm/worriar etc. and the difference is insane.

ele is insanely weak compared to any other class, doesn’t mean that you cant rolfstomp with a full premade team vs bambies.

ps: i bet you any decent worriar/necro/thief/mesm would beat you silly in that build -_- unless they are bambies and letting themself get hit by a VERY long casted burst spell you stand no chance there (and having 1 root which would be broken by any decent player would not safe you.)

Erebus.7568:

seriously -_- you are a full premade very well organized and build to support each other team vs random bambies and your doing next to no dmg and your support seems decent at best (compared to having ANY other class there) and this is your argument for the ele not being weak -_-

that is the WORST argument i ever saw…
good worriars, mesm, necro’s can solo 2-3 decent players easily.. having you hang around other very well build organised classes to drag your elekitten through is not a argument for the ele not being stupidly weak..

the dmg and support you saw of is as said decent at best, now compare it to a support guardian or a dps thief/mesm/worriar etc. and the difference is insane.

ele is insanely weak compared to any other class, doesn’t mean that you cant rolfstomp with a full premade team vs bambies.

ps: i bet you any decent worriar/necro/thief/mesm would beat you silly in that build -_- unless they are bambies and letting themself get hit by a VERY long casted burst spell you stand no chance there (and having 1 root which would be broken by any decent player would not safe you.)

Ok, I’m getting tired of this…so now warriors, rangers, necros, guardians, mesmers, AND engineers can solo 3 people easy. I have one question….what people are you soloing? If we’re leaving out the skill of the player in these comparisons, then it can’t be anybody with those same professions because they should be roughly evently matched if they’re all THAT powerful. That leaves only elementalists and thieves. And it can’t be thieves because, according to you guys, a good theif has a decent chance against anybody.
So that leaves this claim of soloing 3 people easy only a single possibility…you’re apparently coming up against groups of 3 elementalists constantly…And, ignoring the fact that elementalists aren’t nearly as bad as you people think they are, I highly doubt that’s the case.
So, I’m left with one option…these 3 people that you guys can apparently solo with any class must be terrible players, in which case the point is moot because any decent player with any profession can solo 3 terrible players.

@Westly: You’re generalizing. So many people in this forum have made the same hasty generalization. Just because YOU can’t do well as an elementalist doesn’t mean that it’s impossible. Honestly, I think the claim sounds a little conceited and elitist. “If I can’t do it, then nobody can”. Do you see the implicit assumption there that YOU are the single best player and know everything about the game already?
I’m not trying to flame you or anything and I’m sorry if this comes off that way. I’m trying to warn you against hasty generalizations. I can assure you that beating those classes (even when they have skilled players behind them) is very possible as an elementalist.

Pinkerton.5643:

Ok, I’m getting tired of this…so now warriors, rangers, necros, guardians, mesmers, AND engineers can solo 3 people easy. I have one question….what people are you soloing?

show me ONE ele that can just solo 1v3 players thats not totallykitten

i would be able to show you hordes of players on necro, worriar, guardians that can easily solo 3 people at a time..

the point is that the BEST OF HTE BEST!!! ele can stand 1v1 against bambies and half decent players…
while the best of the best of any other class utterlykittenkittenfull zergs of those types of players (yer yer not full zergs but get the point they can easily do 1v3-5 players of those types)

anything is “possible” I suppose… especially in reference to video games…

Alexixiv.8125:

snip

I got passed all those story quests @ level 15 with equal level blue gear. Solo. Not sure why you couldnt. Maybe you arnt used to playing on the class, so you wernt sure what you needed to do…idk. Leveling has been super easy on the Ele for me.

Erebus.7568:

Pinkerton.5643:

Ok, I’m getting tired of this…so now warriors, rangers, necros, guardians, mesmers, AND engineers can solo 3 people easy. I have one question….what people are you soloing?

show me ONE ele that can just solo 1v3 players thats not totallykitten

i would be able to show you hordes of players on necro, worriar, guardians that can easily solo 3 people at a time..

the point is that the BEST OF HTE BEST!!! ele can stand 1v1 against bambies and half decent players…
while the best of the best of any other class utterlykittenkittenfull zergs of those types of players (yer yer not full zergs but get the point they can easily do 1v3-5 players of those types)

LOL, if any class can solo 1v3, then the 3 need to go back to WoW.

All right let’s not over exaggerating things. One person doesn’t matter what class cannot 1v3 and win ok. Assuming those three people got half a brain, it’s not possible. Though you can argue that other classes like guardian or mesmer can handle multiple foes at a time and still be able to live long enough till helps arrive better than an elementalist. An elementalist can barely hold his own let alone taking on multiple targets at a time and by the time helps arrive, he’s already dead. Let’s just put this thread to rest with the conclusion that the OP argument is weak to prove that eles is strong….

Tanking 3 people and soloing 3 people are completly different. You shouldnt beable to hold off 3 people with a cloth wearing caster. And i wouldnt expect a guardian to do massive AoE damage and CC.
Do you people really think that all class should be on equal ground via play style.

You cannot roll solo as a Ele. You need to be in a group, not sure why thats a problem in “Structured PVP”.

I’m not saying the Ele is weak or strong. There are to many variables. But if you are asking ANET to give you the ability to tank(guardian) or STDPS or lol100blades, then you might as well ask for free gold, skins, and flying unicorn mounts that shoot rainbow out of there bholes….

Weapon X.5163:

Tanking 3 people and soloing 3 people are completly different. You shouldnt beable to hold off 3 people with a cloth wearing caster. And i wouldnt expect a guardian to do massive AoE damage and CC.
Do you people really think that all class should be on equal ground via play style.

You cannot roll solo as a Ele. You need to be in a group, not sure why thats a problem in “Structured PVP”.

I’m not saying the Ele is weak or strong. There are to many variables. But if you are asking ANET to give you the ability to tank(guardian) or STDPS or lol100blades, then you might as well ask for free gold, skins, and flying unicorn mounts that shoot rainbow out of there bholes….

I don’t think all classes should perform all roles equally. The problem with elementalist is that it doesn’t perform any role as well as other classes, who not only out-perform elementalists in one category, but usually several.

Should a warrior do severely more damage than an elementalist while having much greater survivability? While being infinitely ‘easier’ to play? How is that balanced? I don’t need to do the damage of a warrior, but I need some commensurate alternative advantage for the sacrifice. Why stance dance, pull off combos, kite like crazy just achieve par or sub-par results?

As far as your.. ‘You cannot roll solo as an Ele.’ ..do you really think that’s good game design?

Kyros.5682:

@Razerei I main a mesmer and I’ve only been playing Ele for like 2 weeks. I Have played the majority of the classes and know which of these are hardest to play for me etc… etc..
Play style plays a large role in the difficulty of a class. so to just Sum up Ele as being a much harder class to play i think you are extremely mistaken. In many ways I find Mesmer a harder class to play than ele when not running the Illusion does all your damage build. And same for warrior with a greatsword. You are a 1 trick pony and you have to ensure your trick lands. This is all opinions formulated from playing against some of the best players in the game. You can throw out the Spvp shet I base none of my experiences from that. And I take no credit for stomping a 90% win ratio against garbage pug teams in tourneys.

I’ve restrained myself from saying this until now
I find ele a extremely easy class to play, You spam skills and have a good amount of success without any specific rotation or order, you just dominate while spaming like you would button mash in teken

That perspective is against the average joe. You can mash buttons on an ele with a good build and destroy. With the signet heal the faster you mash the more healing you get, that to me = a win – win scenario.

@Boozer, What you say is very true in many ways. What you may fail to realize is that there is very little money in Spvp while there is a potential to make loads of money in competitive tourney play for Anet. So balancing the game towards a more competitive nature would benefit them more as a company and lets face it, money makes the world go round. Those with money could give a shet about human emotion.
Also the builds that require “High risk” end up with little reward in any pvp scenario. High risk for high reward builds dont work in PvP. People think better than AI. Stick to high risk high reward builds for PvE and try to find a more balanced consistant build that can do both damage and Defense. Otherwise your doing it wrong. And if your doing it for fun than by all means do it your way and have fun but dont QQ when your not winning.

As someone who recently played a mesmser for about a week, I can say without a doubt that mesmers are immensely easy to use and far more rewarding then eles. If you build Mesmers correctly you can pretty much inflict every condition on someone with just auto attacks with the staff build( and your clones can do this to). I mean come on if I have like less then 1k hp I just used the “I win button” and turn them into a harmless critter can proceed to curb stomp them into the ground. In my less then a week experience doing pugs( I haven’t formed a group of people to do tournaments yet), I held the attention of at least five people trying to kill me but since I’m using a condition/ clone based build, it’s hard to find the real me and if you have certain skills and traits you can cloak at least twice and easily sleep out of team fights.
Never mind the fact that gunner clone does a crap ton of damage with correct traits, never mind that staff mesmers auto attack inflict nearly every condition in the game and you can make clones inflict the same condition, never mind the fact that mesmers and by extension their clones are tanker then eles.

TL;DR

Mesmer are immensely easy to play compared to eles and a lot more rewarding. They can also inflect pretty much every condition eles can do but with auto attacks granted this is random but it can easily stack up if all of your clones are auto attacking with staff.

Edit oh right they can also reflect ranged attacks while healing and is a lot more tanky.

I was talking about Spvp for not roling solo. I was doing just fine by my self in WvW. If your playing a “Team” based game every class should not beable to do everything by them selfs, this isnt CoD.

It will be a matter of time before 100B and frenzy gets nerfed. The warrior is supposed to have high armor/health and after that 100b combo gets nerfed the only burst they will have is the rifle or Evisarate. I’m sure all the whines will switch to that. Or maybe they will focus on Theifs, who knows. One thing i do know is that the majority of these people crying will never be happy.

Weapon X.5163:

One thing i do know is that the majority of these people crying will never be happy.

One thing I do know is that the insulting way in which to try and label anyone with concerns as a ‘crybaby’ or a poor player only serves to illustrate that you have no real argument to make.

The most interesting point about this thread after reading them all, is Zarerei offers a challenge and no ele hero took his. Why?
Anyone who thought their ele is at least at par at other profession should show their proof of concept, please take Zarerei’s challenge. All should agree on time & date , 3 rounds of challenge to smooth out the odd. If your ele beats the crap out of his profession, then I believe you. As a matter of fact, I would like to see a team of majority of heroes ele against other profession. That would settle all of the issues discussed here. Kyros video shows the same thing but the ele team lost. Hah.
Yes, excuse is to make people feeling better but that’s all there is.

1. Being strong in a 1v1 situation is only important for some roles. Duels would show, what builds loose vs a certain Elementalist build and what builds win.
2. How would you duell atm?
3. A team made of one class is usually inefficient. You wouldn’t do too good with a team of 5 thiefs and I guess no one is saying thief is weak right?

Kyros, thanks for posting your build and strat. I found it insightful, as it is very near to the build I will be running myself, not to mention refreshing amidst all the naysayers in this forum who should really be posting in the warrior forum. I play an elementalist because I want a classic versatile spellcaster.

If you would be so kind and give some insight as to how you progressed in this build as you leveled? I am not yet 80 and would appreciate the advice.

1) The point is whether ele is at par with other class if all else is equal. Hence Zarerei challenge remained valid.
2) What is duell atm?
3) Well, what is the chance of 5 thiefs against 5 eles? Hence Zarerei challenge remain valid.

I think there is a new thread (“Here’s an idea thread”) to settle this issue in the community and I think that’s an legitimate thread to solve the issue. Unless someone settle the challenge with these possible scenarios

1) Average OTP (other profession player) against average ele.? Who will lose?
2) Good OTP against good ele? Who will lose?
3) Great OTP againts great ele? Who will lose?

the discussion of elementalist is a squishy meatball is never end.
BTW, what is the hit rate of elementalist squishy on google? A lot more than other profession and that tells you something.

1) The point is whether ele is at par with other class if all else is equal. Hence Zarerei challenge remained valid.

You can’t compare a support build with a 1on1 Build on the base of how good the support build does in a duel. Same goes for other builds. And when comparing 1on1 Builds… the Mesmer always wins^^

2) What is duell atm?

*How would you duel at the moment

3) Well, what is the chance of 5 thiefs against 5 eles? Hence Zarerei challenge remain valid.

A 5 Thiefs VS 5 Elementalist battle isn’t relevant for balance. (And if both partys played equally well the Elementalist team should win, cause they can bunker better.)

Gelrod.1295:

You can’t compare a support build with a 1on1 Build on the base of how good the support build does in a duel. Same goes for other builds. And when comparing 1on1 Builds… the Mesmer always wins^^

my ele’ll beat any mesmer any day

Weapon X.5163:

Erebus.7568:

Pinkerton.5643:

Ok, I’m getting tired of this…so now warriors, rangers, necros, guardians, mesmers, AND engineers can solo 3 people easy. I have one question….what people are you soloing?

show me ONE ele that can just solo 1v3 players thats not totallykitten

i would be able to show you hordes of players on necro, worriar, guardians that can easily solo 3 people at a time..

the point is that the BEST OF HTE BEST!!! ele can stand 1v1 against bambies and half decent players…
while the best of the best of any other class utterlykittenkittenfull zergs of those types of players (yer yer not full zergs but get the point they can easily do 1v3-5 players of those types)

LOL, if any class can solo 1v3, then the 3 need to go back to WoW.

Exactly what I was trying to get at.
I can solo 1v3 on my Ele. But those 3 are not good players. I can 1v1 good players as well as other good players can 1v1 me.

I only skimmed through this thread….people seem very angry haha I wonder if the people hating on ele right now would be saying the same things if they nerfed 1 button builds….I’ve seen very powerful ele’s out there just sayin…