Ele might indeed be Celestial in nature

Ele might indeed be Celestial in nature

in Elementalist

Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

The phrase has been thrown around, Ele is Celestial in nature. And honestly after testing some alternative builds to auramancer in pvp, speaking to other eles and watching build threads. I honestly think that and others might also have said that in order for ele to actually have an alternative role it simply needs an celestial esque amulet worth atleast 4 stats.

I’ve made 2 semi viable builds that work in ranked but have glaring Obvious weaknesses. i will show one

Disclaimer:

It’s possible that somebody beat me to it with awfully similar builds. In that case I apologize in advance as I wasn’t aware of such builds, instead see it as a compliment and a honor .

Fresh Air Condi Hybrid Tempest

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdnMMAFYi9MAOYCcYilHAzdymZ/sCBgDwGsIQOFaCA-TJRFABA8AAS4EAQ0+DmXGAA

Obvious weakness is the long interuptable heal with a cast time of 2.75 seconds. something which is utterly unforgivable. therefore conditions will become an problem if enough pressure is aplied. the healing going in pulses makes it possible to get spiked down before the heal is completed.

low healthpool and armour

I noticed that when I combined the dps burst of fresh air and added condi to it through viper amulet and arcane. I noticed that this build actually hits incredibly kittening hard for an ele even without ferocity. Thanx to the condi application especially through burns it’s sustained damage now actually covers the intervals between burst a bit better thanx to burning and the stackable bleeds on earth. And u can just use it like an fresh air tempest.

However ele still suffers from the same problem that makes it not viable. Heck I could argue that it’s possible for completely different builds to actually not hit like a wet noodle. but often like this build here they give up sustain due to the class suffering from a low H-pool and kittenty base armour. So they compensated it through protection and passive heals. the problem however is that they are only 3 traitlines u need atleast 2 to have decent sustain. Well it’s not uncommon right? u can say the same for warrior, Meditrapper, bunker druid and more. the problem however is that ele suffers from a huge DPS loss. Cause skill damage is split amongst condi and power and covered over 4 attunments. which is why u see mediocore power skill damage numbers At the same time fresh air is where it’s consistent power burst potential lies which would then be inaccesible. the very thing that was considerd burst pre hot cannot be used in Heart of thorns.

Ele might indeed be Celestial in nature

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Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Ele to utilize it’s damage either needs to go completely on with traits that heavily support dps. However what would be ideal would be to have an amulet that deals condi and power damage and a bit of sustain. aka celestial esque amulet.

However that is not all. Since the class is spread over 4 attunments it needs reworks in arcane and fire traitlines in such a sense that they aren’t attunment exclusive because that is really a big problem, elemental attunment is not going to suffice. We need something stronger.

For example just out the top of my head everytime u swap attunment u get: protection 4 secs, regenration 4 secs. cooldown 10 secs

Arcane still offers less reliable sustain then earth, water and tempest given the cooldown on this trait. earth offering protection on auras and having additional toughness and damage reduction trait+diamond skin. water offering more healing and condi cleanse etc through regenration frost aura wich add syngergy.

However protection and regenration will allow for less openings for high damage spikes to oneshot fresh air like thiefs and revs. at the same time it allows the build to stand on point a little bit more and not to endessly kite like the roadrunner. Fresh air has such an an high skill cap but at the same time it the build right now is also depdent on it’s terrain way too much in pvp as it simply cannot trade blows with any other class/build other then auramancer, scrapper to some extent. U cannot allow a class with low health pool+low armour without protection, arcane shield on it’s own would not suffice even double. the low armour would just make it so that u proce it earlier as evisrates can take like 60-70 percent of your hp.

U can argue that elemental bastion actually would suffice given with tempest u have enough auras. auras for days even. the problem however is that healing wouldn’t work on it’s own without hard damage migitation like evades and blocks unless u spec into healing power and add soft damage migitation aka protection however now that they reduced the cooldown on arcane shield, u can rune double arcane shield and obsidian flesh.

Also we need amulets that actually are celestial light. as in only 1 defensive state either vitality, hp or healing power. but never at the same time.

for example

Power 1050
Precision 1050
toughness 560
Condi Damage 560

Power 1050
Precision 1050
Vitality 560
Condition Damage 560

or

900 power
900 precison
560 condi damage
560 vitality
560 concentration

900 power
900 precision
560 toughness
560 condition damage
560 expertise

Either that or rework the class, make pretty kitten sure the elite spec has enough sustain and burst that prevents an ele from taking water and earth on top of tempest to not get destroyed.

and before u say. ‘’Oh my gosh i beat 10 helseths at the same time on core fresh air without an amulet or some stuff like that, fresh air is strong’’

Yes I know u can beat every other class with any build provided the skill level gap is wide enough, but on equal skilled u will be at an disadvantage. Neither am I calling fresh Air tresh. I’m calling it viable as in it’s working but that’s it.

What are your toughts on this? Discuss!!!

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I play those hybrid builds. Viper/Soldiers is squishy….
Ele lives and dies with its protection boon. 13k life and low armor makes poof without protection and the uptime in this build is low. Arcane shield can´t compensate it.
Thats why i hate necros in teamfights when they corrup prot …
These hybrid builds can be done i multiple ways with all elements. Earth + tempest +x seems most stable. If you drop water you loose a lot of condi removal but it works unless you try dueling mesmer or somtimes condi necro.
I would adapt the fresh air build you posted.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdnMIC9MgFNAOOAcYiFJATYBEAqgF7xmwRwtxOZzsA-TJBBAB3XGgiTAAAPAA/3fAA

Squishy but fun. Can use eather renewal but you usually die annyway if you need it. I prefer a faster cast heal with damage and ferocity boon. You need to kill and do preassure. The glyph can be used for burns or weakness. Hard hitting boon machine. Necros might rip you apart unless you burst them down.

Ele might indeed be Celestial in nature

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Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

I play those hybrid builds. Viper/Soldiers is squishy….
Ele lives and dies with its protection boon. 13k life and low armor makes poof without protection and the uptime in this build is low. Arcane shield can´t compensate it.
Thats why i hate necros in teamfights when they corrup prot …
These hybrid builds can be done i multiple ways with all elements. Earth + tempest +x seems most stable. If you drop water you loose a lot of condi removal but it works unless you try dueling mesmer or somtimes condi necro.
I would adapt the fresh air build you posted.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdnMIC9MgFNAOOAcYiFJATYBEAqgF7xmwRwtxOZzsA-TJBBAB3XGgiTAAAPAA/3fAA

Squishy but fun. Can use eather renewal but you usually die annyway if you need it. I prefer a faster cast heal with damage and ferocity boon. You need to kill and do preassure. The glyph can be used for burns or weakness. Hard hitting boon machine. Necros might rip you apart unless you burst them down.

Very interesting adaption. Actually before i made the build with earth instead of arcane. but I noticed that in terms of condi application it goes downhill it also provides cover conditions in a sense that conditions can be applied on weaponskills that do not nessisarily apply the same condition.. and with earth instead of fresh air, but that cause u to be pigeonholded into an attunment and the lighting strike from fresh air is really a nice way to keep that dps going u can swap in and out during overload fire multiple times, same for air. But yeah i get excatly what u mean, it lives and dies with protection, the thing is the offensive traitlines like fire and arcane also need a bit of sustain not equal to earth, water or tempest but it would definately make it so that not every alternate build is squishy as kitten even just reworking traits and not making them so attunment dependent would be a big thing.. But that’s not all. it needs more amulet option. notice that i went for 560 condi damage instead of 1050 to prevent other potential condi builds with more sustain from hitting over the top with increased hp now that they got precision and power as well.

But yeah I will try earth out one more time and see if i can figure something out. thanx for your insight.

what do u think about additional cele light amulets? and some reworks on fire and arcane to atleast get rid of the need of earth on dps builds while still not enough to go full bunker without earh and water.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

a five stat amulet woudl be great but it always needs to be looked at all classes.
Fire needs a lot of traits buffed. It did fall back greatly and is currently only used for staff eles and me as unusual kitten. Arcane got a bit but there are still weak traits. I would give it 20% elemental attunement CD not 15. Not very much but a kick for ele gameplay.

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

However what would be ideal would be to have an amulet that deals condi and power damage and a bit of sustain.

uhh…sage?

Why has sage amulet not been mentioned even once in this topic?
There’s only one problem with it, and that’s that you can’t use fresh air with it.

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Posted by: Dahir.4158

Dahir.4158

However what would be ideal would be to have an amulet that deals condi and power damage and a bit of sustain.

uhh…sage?

Why has sage amulet not been mentioned even once in this topic?
There’s only one problem with it, and that’s that you can’t use fresh air with it.

Sage is my one true love

Broski

Ele might indeed be Celestial in nature

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Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

However what would be ideal would be to have an amulet that deals condi and power damage and a bit of sustain.

uhh…sage?

Why has sage amulet not been mentioned even once in this topic?
There’s only one problem with it, and that’s that you can’t use fresh air with it.

Because i find it incredibly mediocore. power damage is absolutely horrible without precision and ferocity, the existence of precision on viper atleast allows for fury to push it to 50 percent crit rate. condition damage without power pressure brings makes u in my opiniion a bit too much Reliant on condi damage. idealy u would want to have a amulet that balanced both aspects roughly evenly.

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Posted by: Abelisk.4527

Abelisk.4527

Destroyer amulet > Viper for your build IMO.

Sage’s is good with Sigil of Intelligence and Rune of Rage. Cele’s power was around 560 while Sage has 1050 power. That’s almost double of cele = pretty much almost always crit…

Cele has 190% or so ferocity sage’s has 160% (with Rune of Rage). A critical with Sage’s would deal more damage than celestial power did. Then we have condi damage = higher than celestial as well.

With Sage’s all we are missing is precision, ferocity, and toughness. Toughness isn’t a big issue at all to be frank, and Tempest greatly improves the loss of toughness by providing extra sustainability. Precision and Ferocity are enhanced by sigils and runes, and the 1050 power exceeds what the celestial amulet did.

Now for the issue. Might stacking. Cele was good at might stacking because of the 35% Might duration. With Arcane you only have 10% boon duration. 25% boon duration loss.

However, Fire Overload does some nice might stacking, but I realized it’s just not good. Way too slow to wait for might to pop up, and your opponent will heal themselves. Best to just stick to Ring of Fire might stack.

I also found Sigil of Nullification quite nice for boon strip. Definitely improved duels against Warriors.

Now that I think about it… perhaps Rune of Hoelbrak would be a better choice to take. You get might stack back, condi duration reduction back, even more power…

(edited by Abelisk.4527)